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Sagebrush posted:i think it's a simulated failure and the guy chilling out in the right seat is an instructor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KayzJetqnrI
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Jan 17, 2020 10:42
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Fallom posted:Here's how the firefighter conversation should've gone: "You didn't pay your $75 fee, so we'll stick you with a $10,000 bill to put out this fire." "Ok." The reason the Fire chief didn't probably stems from two things: Liability and more Liability. You can't make a legally binding contract while under duress, and watch you house burn down with all your poo poo in it is basically the gold standard for that. So they get the guy to say he'll pay 10k, and the very next day he goes to a lovely lawyer in town and sues the fire dept, saying there's no way he'll pay that much, and it's $150, take it or leave it, so now they have to fight this bozo for the cash he owes them. The second reason is since they per their charter, they weren't supposed to do anything for non-paying members, so anything bad that happens would technically be their fault once they started helping. A lot of states have laws that prevent Good Samaritans from getting the poo poo sued out of them for that, but hell if I know if Tennessee does.
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Jan 17, 2020 10:47
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luxury handset posted:the house burned for want of $75 seems real bad if you accept the weird framing that the fire department is somehow a for-profit agency and they're just greedy fuckers who want to rip off the poor homeowner in a time of need Here's a crazy idea. Live in a civilised country, your house catches fire and the Fire Brigade come and put it out. You don't pay any money to anyone for it. The US has such a weird relationship with the concept of public services.
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Jan 17, 2020 10:58
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Shut up Meg posted:I thought is was a funny because the outdated google photo made it appear that the runway wasn't built yet, not that they actually did land on one under construction. yowzah. I did end up having a play in Planet Labs to see what it looks like this week. There's a bunch of cloud so it's hard to make out, but sure enough, the taxiways are not yet connected. That's fun!
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Jan 17, 2020 10:59
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Aramoro posted:Here's a crazy idea. Live in a civilised country, your house catches fire and the Fire Brigade come and put it out. You don't pay any money to anyone for it. Reading about american fire department subscriptions, or healthcare, or politics, or education, or prisons, always fills me with this weird mix of anger at the system and relief that I'm not part of it.
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Jan 17, 2020 11:28
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Tree Bucket posted:Reading about american fire department subscriptions, or healthcare, or politics, or education, or prisons, always fills me with this weird mix of anger at the system and relief that I'm not part of it. I read these Tales from Yankland with incredulity and morbid fascination. The thought that a fire fighter would stop fighting a fire because someone hadn't paid their taxes is utterly alien to me.
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Jan 17, 2020 11:48
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It becomes a bit easier to understand why everything is so different between each state if you imagine each state as a mini-nation that answers to a bigger nation, but only if the bigger nation is interested in stepping in. That's how you get things like Texans using all of the water that's mostly under Oklahoma. A part of the aquifer is under Texas and Texas says "if you can take it, it's yours". Sorry wheat farms in Oklahoma, these Dallas golf courses won't water themselves!
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Jan 17, 2020 11:59
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Tree Bucket posted:Reading about american fire department subscriptions, or healthcare, or politics, or education, or prisons, always fills me with this weird mix of anger at the system and relief that I'm not part of it. Yeah, it's this and then the punchline is when people come in and post "actually, it's better this way, what on earth do you mean" 
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Jan 17, 2020 12:04
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RandomPauI posted:It becomes a bit easier to understand why everything is so different between each state if you imagine each state as a mini-nation that answers to a bigger nation, but only if the bigger nation is interested in stepping in. The USA is not the only federal state in the world.
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Jan 17, 2020 12:23
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Antigravitas posted:The USA is not the only federal state in the world. Most federal nations don't also have states with their own individual armies, air forces, and navies. Seriously, the amount of local autonomy can be shocking.
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Jan 17, 2020 12:36
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The small Iowa town I grew up in had a volunteer fire department. We had to have them out for two fires (my dad was a hell of an electrician lol) and both times we later got a letter asking for a donation. It was "pay what you can pay, if that amount is $0, no problem". I don't know if we ever paid anything, I'm guessing not because we didn't have poo poo. I do know these were guys dad hung out and worked with in other situations and he never got any grief for it.
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Jan 17, 2020 12:55
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Aramoro posted:Here's a crazy idea. Live in a civilised country, your house catches fire and the Fire Brigade come and put it out. You don't pay any money to anyone for it. volunteer fire services are common in rural areas the world over you can use this as a soapbox against the us if you want, but it would be weird. volunteer fire services used to exist in britain but it's too small these days to have any real rural areas Antigravitas posted:I read these Tales from Yankland with incredulity and morbid fascination. The thought that a fire fighter would stop fighting a fire because someone hadn't paid their taxes is utterly alien to me. how alien is the idea that someone could simply opt out of paying the fire protection tax because they hadn't gotten around to it yet
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Jan 17, 2020 14:07
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Solice Kirsk posted:Fire trucks should be on patrol 24/hrs a day. Cruising around looking for fires, car accidents, rugby games to jump into, etc. I'm sick and tired of my tax dollars going to fire trucks that just sit around waiting for fires to happen. Go out there and fight them you lazy bums! I don't know what is like where you live, but my local firefighters literally serve 24 hour long shifts.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:14
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Yeah, Americans have to pay a fire department subscription. Gosh you foreign rubes are gullible.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:14
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All the Australian rural fire services are volunteers. However even if the firefighters themselves are volunteers, the state still funds the service using normal state revenue like taxes, because anything else would be very literally terminal.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:15
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luxury handset posted:volunteer fire services are common in rural areas the world over Erm....I'm not sure you know what a Volunteer fire service is. Volunteer doesn't mean they'll refuse to put your house out unless you pay them. Where I live in the UK we have a volunteer fire service (partially anyway), if my house catches fire they will come and put it out. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 14:21
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Antigravitas posted:I read these Tales from Yankland with incredulity and morbid fascination. The thought that a fire fighter would stop fighting a fire because someone hadn't paid their taxes is utterly alien to me. I'm always amused when watching American real life TV, someone has a medical issue in public and the Fire Department is sent, instead of paramedics in an ambulance. I know that firefighters have medical training, but it's weird to see some guy faint and be attended on by 6 guys wearing fireproof trousers, riding a big red firetruck filled with pumps, ladders and axes - instead of perhaps two paramedics in an actual ambulance filled with medical stuff.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:32
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Legin Noslen posted:Yeah, Americans have to pay a fire department subscription. The case being discussed here is where someone, I want to say in unincorporated land didn't pay some voluntary fee to be covered by the fire service. They put his house out once, but the second time just let it burn down. What's weird about that is the emergency service provider is checking eligibility. There was an idea here that A&E Doctors would check people's entitlement to free treatment here and it was rightly push back against very hard because that's not a function of the job. They are there to treat people, not push paperwork around trying to work out if they're covered or not. Almost all our lifeboats are voluntary, they don't sail out and ask if you want to sign up to their deluxe rescue package before pulling you aboard.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:32
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Shut up Meg posted:I'm always amused when watching American real life TV, someone has a medical issue in public and the Fire Department is sent, instead of paramedics in an ambulance. It's a weird thing in the US. Most of the fire departments work and callouts are medical and ambulance related work, but most of their funding is received for fire. They have an iron grip on their EMS due to this, but all of their FD funding generally doesn't go to the EMS sector so it's very neglected and under-funded. Firefighters and paramedics are two completely different jobs too and international standards recommend that they aren't staffed or run by mix FD/EMS departments as this causes so many issues which results in sub-standard EMS system for many US cities and states. In actual civilized places EMS is a separate profession to FD and rightly so.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:36
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The "volunteer" fire department where I'm from was basically an illegal bar.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:49
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Shut up Meg posted:I'm always amused when watching American real life TV, someone has a medical issue in public and the Fire Department is sent, instead of paramedics in an ambulance. Real world experience of this. I was blind drunk on Australia Day. Went to the dunnys and have a sit down. They closed the pub on me, locking me inside. I called 000 and awkwardly asked for the firies because 'they save people'. I was talk of the towns media for a while after that. And I am proud to say, I caught up with the pub crawl and that pub was booed for closing early for a while.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:54
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I mean, if anyone can liberate you from a locked building, it’s the people with the axes and the kicks. No, not your freshman gym class.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:59
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Aramoro posted:Erm....I'm not sure you know what a Volunteer fire service is. Volunteer doesn't mean they'll refuse to put your house out unless you pay them. someone pays the organization, to ensure that they have firefighting equipment to fight fires with, and this organization which pays for the equipment they use to put out fires can set restrictions around who gets to have fires put out - nominally, people who helped pay for the firefighting equipment used to put out fires i know, i know, if it were me, i would simply open the Funding menu and drag the Fire Protection slider further to the right, thus increasing the amount of funding provided and extending the service area another few tiles. why the local jurisdiction fails to take this simple step baffles me, i can only assume they did not do the tutorial
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Jan 17, 2020 15:10
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I had a driver delivering to a military research lab. They confiscated his phone and license at the gate and directed him to back into a dock. They unloaded him but forgot to unlock his dock, closed up the lab and locked the entrance gate. It took a few hours to finally track down someone with the clearance to go back and release him.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:12
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MisterOblivious posted:I don't know what is like where you live, but my local firefighters literally serve 24 hour long shifts. Really living up to that user name eh?
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Jan 17, 2020 15:23
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Shut up Meg posted:I'm always amused when watching American real life TV, someone has a medical issue in public and the Fire Department is sent, instead of paramedics in an ambulance. I'm an american who's had several trips in the ambulance due to grand mal seizures. Only a few happened at home, and were seen by my partner, and when they communicated to 911 that the door would be unlocked and they should come right in, as fast as possible it was only EMTs. No firefighters, no cops. - I woke up to EMTs only standing over me, after whatever they shot into me took hold and made my brain start to act right enough to walk my own rear end down to the ambulance. Which seems fairly reasonable to me, and the incidences of huge fire engines showing up for someone falling down seem strange.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:25
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lmao at defending opt-in fire departments thanks to our extremely lovely public sector, just lol
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Jan 17, 2020 15:41
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brugroffil posted:lmao at defending opt-in fire departments thanks to our extremely lovely public sector, just lol hey man, making fun of the rural poor is a great way to demonstrate my internet proletariat bonafides. solidarity, my brother!
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Jan 17, 2020 15:44
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luxury handset posted:hey man, making fun of the rural poor is a great way to demonstrate my internet proletariat bonafides. solidarity, my brother! If they keep voting for it, they can't be surprised when it keeps happening.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:47
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Some municipalities have what's sometimes referred to as "fire-based EMS." As in, every firefighter is at least an EMT, you won't make captain unless you're also a paramedic, and there's at least one paramedic on each engine. In places like AZ, when you call 911 it's the fire department's dispatch, and if it's a police matter they forward it to the cops but if it's a fire or medical they take care of it themselves. Phoenix fire, for example, operates ambulances that say "Phoenix Fire" on them, and new boots usually have to spend X number of shifts on an ambo before moving up permanently to an engine. Outlying cities often don't have their own EMS services, so they contract with private EMS companies like AMR (who recently purchased Rural/Metro) who operate their own ambulances but have to carry and be trained on Phoenix Fire radios and operations. The AMR dispatchers have a Phoenix Fire (or Mesa or other city if the city runs their own, but TBH Phoenix takes care of like half the drat state) dispatch computer alongside the AMR dispatch system, so they can get some call info. In cities that are run exclusively by AMR for 911, but still have Phoenix Dispatch taking the actual calls, there's a Phoenix Fire computer in the rig, and two radios (one AMR one Phoenix) and we have to call in on both/use the Phoenix computer but the AMR radio, to let both know what's going on during a call. Because Fire runs the dispatch center, they often run to as many calls as they can, which is why an engine shows up on a grandma-go-boom broken hip call. In some cities this is to justify fire's existence and funding ("we ran 6,969 calls in 2019, mayor. We serve your citizens."), In other's it's because the private EMS contract states that if we transport the patient *and* the firefighter paramedic rides along to the hospital with us (for "continuity of care"), AMR pays the fire department $200 or whatever. America!
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Jan 17, 2020 15:48
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luxury handset posted:hey man, making fun of the rural poor is a great way to demonstrate my internet proletariat bonafides. solidarity, my brother! making fun of how dogshit the US is when it comes to public services isn't making fun of the rural poor. e: my uncle is a Chicago FD and is a full paramedic. A majority of his work is EMS stuff. Same for a coworker's buddy out in Vail, CO--a lot of his work are Interstate accident responses etc.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:55
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That seems confusing. I'll just take an Uber to the hospital.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:57
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Solice Kirsk posted:That seems confusing. I'll just take an Uber to the hospital. you joke but around here it's the best and fastest way
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Jan 17, 2020 15:59
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Nocheez posted:If they keep voting for it, they can't be surprised when it keeps happening. sure, but the problem then is with residents of the county who didn't pay into the fire protection scheme. some kind of county wide agreement to unify fire protection between the different localities would be ideal. i just don't like this whole buying into the framing dredged up by outrage-based news reporting on local events, which argues that unpaid volunteers should be compelled by the state to risk their bodies protecting the property of tax-dodging homeowners. this is a real problem in places that are so poor that they can't afford the kinds of professional, on-call emergency services we are used to in cities
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Jan 17, 2020 16:12
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https://i.imgur.com/SFYhfk6.gifv
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Jan 17, 2020 16:18
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luxury handset posted:sure, but the problem then is with residents of the county who didn't pay into the fire protection scheme. some kind of county wide agreement to unify fire protection between the different localities would be ideal. i just don't like this whole buying into the framing dredged up by outrage-based news reporting on local events, which argues that unpaid volunteers should be compelled by the state to risk their bodies protecting the property of tax-dodging homeowners. this is a real problem in places that are so poor that they can't afford the kinds of professional, on-call emergency services we are used to in cities This is a hell of a take, I'm not sure even where to start with it, maybe the compelled by the state part? Oh I don't know. I kinda want to frame it.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:19
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really struggling to understand the thought process here
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Jan 17, 2020 16:25
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brugroffil posted:really struggling to understand the thought process here You know how squirrels and deer get hit by cars because they instinctively try to cut across a predator's path to confuse them and cars are just way too fast for them? I think it's that, but really slowly.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:32
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brugroffil posted:really struggling to understand the thought process here It's Florida so dementia probably plays a major role in it.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:36
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luxury handset posted:hey man, making fun of the rural poor is a great way to demonstrate my internet proletariat bonafides. solidarity, my brother! If there's one thing the Internet left loves to do its punch down in any way that's still considered socially acceptable.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:52
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