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  I've got a new itch bundle/sale on! It's my Last Quarter Moon Sale (covering the time between the last quarter moon and new moon, every moon phase cycle). Normally it's just for Over the Moon, my 2-player PbP dating comedy-horror game, but this time it also includes From Sea to Shining Sea, my GMless game of sci-fi gonzo journalistic trips on the dark side of the moon! They're 25% off individually ($3.75 and $7.50 respectively), or 33% off in the $10 bundle. FStSS also got a hell of a review for the Sandy Pug Game Awards: https://twitter.com/AdiraSlattery/status/1217843001621450756 The sale will end on the new moon, so approximately a week from now.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:09
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Lemon-Lime posted:Good time with friends is better than time spent with friends that is made mediocre by playing a bad game. Just spend your time with friends doing something else instead. This is tricky when the friends all want to play that game. It is doubly tricky when the reason they want that is not that they all individually like it but because it is the group’s found compromise, or Abilene Paradox.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:38
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Lemon-Lime posted:That's the direct opposite of a system in which the fighter is interesting. Okay, then answer the question...
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Jan 17, 2020 16:55
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Zaphod42 posted:Okay, then answer the question... 4E, obviously.
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Jan 17, 2020 23:27
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Lemon-Lime posted:4E, obviously. Comeon quit trolling and answer the question  I'm about to start a new game with some friends and I'm honestly interested in looking at new systems, I'm DMing and they've said they kinda trust me since they're not as experienced.
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Jan 17, 2020 23:34
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4e Brawler Fighter is seriously one of the most fun classes ever made, hands down. I’m having problems even thinking of competition. Maybe a Bound in The Spire? I haven’t gotten to actually play it.
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Jan 17, 2020 23:48
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Okay well I'm not about to make everybody else play 4th just so the fighter class isn't bad. I'd rather simply not have any fighters in the party. 4th is really the best answer?
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Jan 17, 2020 23:53
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Zaphod42 posted:Okay well I'm not about to make everybody else play 4th just so the fighter class isn't bad. I'd rather simply not have any fighters in the party. What’s wrong with 4th Edition (Or Spire)?
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Jan 18, 2020 00:05
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Zaphod42 posted:Okay well I'm not about to make everybody else play 4th just so the fighter class isn't bad. I'd rather simply not have any fighters in the party. It unironically is the best at what you need, but it's tough as a real-life recommendation right now. Well, without  at least.You can look at Dungeon Crawl Classics for a great Fighter class, but there's not a wealth of other good recommendations.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:14
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Zaphod42 posted:Okay well I'm not about to make everybody else play 4th just so the fighter class isn't bad. I'd rather simply not have any fighters in the party. Well, as good as D&D gets. (don't play D&D)
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Jan 18, 2020 00:15
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Joe Slowboat posted:What’s wrong with 4th Edition (Or Spire)? Everybody I know hates it so I'm real surprised this thread is super big on it apparently? It makes all classes feel extremely same-y. It also feels like a videogame. You just get buttons to push. Its great for teaching people new to D&D how to play, but just feels bland. My favorite system is D10 White Wolf so I was planning on running a game of Mage, I love the improvised spellcasting and overall I find D10 is real easy to pick up for newbies. But I was planning on ending the campaign after a bit and then switching to either Pathfinder or maybe 5th. Splicer posted:It's a good game, Zaphod. Hmm. I mean, I fully asked that question intending to get a non-D&D answer... I'm confused why everybody was like "haha fighters are so bad in 5th!" and then I'm like "hey so what's a good system" and then... crickets? What do you guys play? That should be a reasonable question...
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Jan 18, 2020 00:17
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All this 4E love is making me really excited to start playtesting my 4E-total-conversion of Lancer when my group wraps up Torchbearer in the spring.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:26
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Oh... oh no
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Jan 18, 2020 00:26
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Zaphod42 posted:Everybody I know hates it so I'm real surprised this thread is super big on it apparently? Any particular setting type you want? Crunch level?
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Jan 18, 2020 00:31
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Zaphod42 posted:It makes all classes feel extremely same-y. It also feels like a videogame. You just get buttons to push. Its great for teaching people new to D&D how to play, but just feels bland. Please stop trolling by reposting 12 year old memes.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:31
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Zaphod, this is how this particular edition war goes:Zaphod42 posted:It makes all classes feel extremely same-y. quote:It also feels like a videogame. You just get buttons to push. quote:Its great for teaching people new to D&D how to play, quote:but just feels bland. If I may suggest, don't respond to those comments I just made, regardless of whether you agree or disagree. We've had this conversation here in TG for a decade, nobody has anything new to say about it. If you're not into 4e that's totally fine, there are other games. Do you need to have lots of magic? Interesting fighters are easiest to have in games where there aren't spellcasters inevitably getting to do far more to affect the outcomes of encounters and adventures. Low-magic and no-magic fantasy settings may be better. Alternatively, consider playing a game that has no fighter class at all.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:35
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Zaphod42 posted:Everybody I know hates it so I'm real surprised this thread is super big on it apparently? So the core answer to this question is that 4e is the game that a lot of people here play. I’ve not found that the classes play very similarly in practice, despite using a common lexicon of keywords and technical language. It goes a lot farther to empower the players to make useful and interesting choices, especially as their characters level up, regardless of class. In the general “D&D-like,” DCC and SotDL are solid choices and fairly popular, though I’d extend Lancer as an option, though it’s a mech game so some of its thematics are quite different. Moving further afield, popular games tend to PbtA or PbtA-derived, though Dungeon World implements too many D&Disms to really be recommended. If you’re looking for a fantasy adventure PbtA game, then Fellowship is a good choice. If your people are looking for something a bit more crimey, then Blades in the Dark could be a solid choice, but I’d personally lean in support of Spire. Belonging Outside Belonging games, meanwhile, tend to be a bit more heavy on the feels and light on the fighting, so it might not be a good fit for a group looking for something more traditional. The same could be said for the my personal favorite engine of choice, the Firebrands engine, but it’s real good. Luke Crane’s games (Torchbearer, Burning Wheel, Mouse Guard, etc.) might be worth looking into for a more crunch experience, as might Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying. Finally, I’d recommend taking a look at Genesys games. There’s definitely some flaws at work there (people in particularly find fault with the bespoke dice and difficulty adjudicating mixed results), but it still generates interesting play.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:38
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also look into modiphius' 2d20 system for something more familiar to D&D players, but with a particular focus on fighter combat without super deep minis-on-a-grid tactical combats, e.g. Conan. But in Conan you are not gonna play a swiss army knife wizard.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:41
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The real crux of the issue, and the real reason why a lot of the game design and board game nerds tend to flock towards 4e, is that every version of Dungeons and Dragons, including every retroclone and heartbreaker, quietly operates under the assumption that once combat breaks out the game needs to immediately transition into a tabletop skirmish game. D&D was (and is) a game made by and for wargaming nerds, not by actors or storytellers. If you don't want a game that makes those assumptions, you don't actually want to be playing Dungeons and Dragons and should be playing something else. If you DO want something that makes those assumptions, then it's really loving difficult to justify playing anything other than the system that has the best combat, and from a game design perspective it's really loving difficult to justify playing anything other than 4e. That it "feels like a video game" is missing the point, because it's supposed to feel like you're playing a game, because you're playing a game that's supposed to feel like a game.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:43
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Speaking of TTRPGs and video games, what’s that Legacy game that’s clearly just Castlevania but also incredibly good? I highly recommend that one too.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:44
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Leperflesh posted:If I may suggest, don't respond to those comments I just made, regardless of whether you agree or disagree. We've had this conversation here in TG for a decade, nobody has anything new to say about it. If you're not into 4e that's totally fine, there are other games. If I may suggest.... maybe don't obsessively break that down line by line if you yourself recognize its not worth having the argument. Dumping all those counterarguments and then demanding you get the last word and I not respond is a pretty weak move. Someone asked "what's wrong with 4th?" So I gave a quick answer. But all I was wanting to know was what systems y'all play and what systems y'all think fighters are good in. If 4th is the only answer, so be it. Leperflesh posted:Do you need to have lots of magic? Interesting fighters are easiest to have in games where there aren't spellcasters inevitably getting to do far more to affect the outcomes of encounters and adventures. Low-magic and no-magic fantasy settings may be better. Alternatively, consider playing a game that has no fighter class at all. Not necessarily, but I find that magic systems can be one of the most expressive tools for roleplaying. I haven't played the Conan game though, but I am potentially down for minis-on-a-grid tactics so maybe I'll look that up next. A bummer if it doesn't have magic (makes sense for the setting) but then I'm all about house rules and have even made up my own systems and rulebooks before, so I could always change that myself. Course, its a lot less likely to be well balanced if I do that Y'all are kinda jumping to conclusions here. Relax. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 18, 2020 |
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Jan 18, 2020 00:48
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Zaphod42 posted:Not necessarily, but I find that magic systems can be one of the most expressive tools for roleplaying. I haven't played the Conan game though, but I am potentially down for minis-on-a-grid tactics so maybe I'll look that up next. Conan is specifically not minis-on-a-grid; it uses a zones mechanic that means you can get away without minis at all for most fights. quote:Y'all are kinda jumping to conclusions here. Relax.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:52
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Leperflesh posted:you dropped a grenade in the thread, and I'll grant you you didn't know you were doing it, but nonetheless, there's the grenade. Someone asked. Me thinks you doth protest too much 
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Jan 18, 2020 00:53
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Zaphod42 posted:Someone asked. Me thinks you doth protest too much Weird how you choose to only engage with this argument rather than say... the big list of potential games that I provided you.
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Jan 18, 2020 00:58
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Zaphod42 posted:So I gave a quick answer. Amazing how disingenuous you can be. Meinberg posted:Speaking of TTRPGs and video games, what’s that Legacy game that’s clearly just Castlevania but also incredibly good? I highly recommend that one too.  https://ufopress.co.uk/product/rhapsody/
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Jan 18, 2020 00:59
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Meinberg posted:Weird how you choose to only engage with this argument rather than say... the big list of potential games that I provided you. This is strangely hostile. I read everything you wrote. Sorry I didn't respond personally and thank you??? Lemon-Lime posted:Amazing how disingenuous you can be. gently caress right off Lemon-Lime This is what I said, verbatim Zaphod42 posted:It makes all classes feel extremely same-y. It also feels like a videogame. You just get buttons to push. Its great for teaching people new to D&D how to play, but just feels bland. I literally wrote a single line about it. I spent more time talking about D10 than 4th. Ironically, you're the one being disengenous Lemon-Lime posted:Please stop trolling by reposting 12 year old memes. Please hit the ignore button and never talk to me again, I never want to speak with you. Ever. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 18, 2020 01:10
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Lemon-Lime posted:Amazing how disingenuous you can be. Rhapsody of Blood is so hecking good! I need to dig into Voidheart Symphony some more soon, the modern day version with some tarot symbolism added in.
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Jan 18, 2020 01:26
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Has anybody played Kids on Bikes or Overlight? Those were the last 2 new systems I was curious about.
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Jan 18, 2020 01:27
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I apologize for contributing to the slapfighting.
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Jan 18, 2020 01:29
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Zaphod42 posted:Has anybody played Kids on Bikes or Overlight? Those were the last 2 new systems I was curious about. Kids on Bikes is serviceable but not very engaging. Tales from the Loop is a much more thematic and in-depth implementation of the same ideas.
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Jan 18, 2020 01:37
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Zaphod42 posted:This is strangely hostile. I read everything you wrote. Sorry I didn't respond personally and thank you??? And you're getting really touchy and aggressive about it and it's kinda weird.
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Jan 18, 2020 01:59
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The year is 2053 and in the center of a packed, silent stadium sit two men at a table. The first man says, "It was like a video game." The second man says, "Video games are good." The first man says, "Every class is the same." The second man says, "It is balanced." No one remembers what any of it means but every year they carry on performing the ritual.
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Jan 18, 2020 02:05
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I'm with Froghammer: if you want to play D&D, 4e is the best edition. If you don't want to play 4e, you don't actually want to play D&D.
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Jan 18, 2020 02:12
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I will reiterate that LANCER is a very good D&D
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Jan 18, 2020 02:17
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dwarf74 posted:You posted a "best of" list of one-liner edition war stuff that has been repeated ad nauseam and isn't accurate. Leperflesh wasn't exactly arguing with you or trying to get any kind of last word - he was telling you exactly what the argument would turn into, and recommending against trying to rehash a 'debate' all the regulars here mocked and got sick of many years ago. I was asked why I don't like 4th and posted my legit feelings from having played it and what I've heard other people say. If that's a "best of" ... okay? Doesn't that make sense that you'd hear common criticisms? Shouldn't be that crazy. Leperflesh is fine. I just thought it was worth pointing out that if he didn't want to have the argument, he shouldn't have the argument at all. That seems like a reasonable point. Quoting and responding to each point line by line is continuing the argument, and demanding it stop after you have the last word is, like I said, kinda lame. Either we talk about it or we don't. But if Leperflesh was the only person who responded it'd be a different conversation. Let it go, we've already moved on. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jan 18, 2020 |
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Jan 18, 2020 02:23
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I (and a lot of people who post in this corner of SA) spent a literal loving decade talking about 4e in various forums and having to listen and attempt to respond to various permutations of "4e is bad because X", only to have X turn out to be bellyfeel over and over and over again. If you wanna know why people respond negatively to "4e is like a videogame", that's why.
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Jan 18, 2020 02:43
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13th Age is pretty great if you can't do 4e because that well has been poisoned. It's got its shortcomings, but it still stands out in an overcrowded field.
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Jan 18, 2020 03:29
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I’m sorry everyone, I was hoping this wouldn’t go the way it always goes. I thought that was over, but now I see it will never end.
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Jan 18, 2020 03:40
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Joe Slowboat posted:I’m sorry everyone, I was hoping this wouldn’t go the way it always goes. I thought that was over, but now I see it will never end.
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Jan 18, 2020 03:42
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TheArchimage posted:I'm with Froghammer: if you want to play D&D, 4e is the best edition. If you don't want to play 4e, you don't actually want to play D&D. I dunno, I'd argue that Basic is also pretty good
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Jan 18, 2020 03:53
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