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Defeatist Elitist posted:This seems incredibly punishing to anyone who didn't build around optimizing at will attacks, and it feels like it could fundamentally break a lot of how the game is supposed to run. It goes hand in hand with the idea that in a hexcrawl game, you're encountering far fewer enemies. 4e is balanced around the assumption that you fight like three or four groups of enemies in a day, and getting a night's sleep doesn't happen till the end of a dungeon. In a hexcrawl setup those same encounters would be stretched out over a week-long expedition, with a night's rest all but guaranteed between them.
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Jan 12, 2020 11:50
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I guess it depends on how easy an overnight sleep is to come by. Usually the bigger problem is players' ability to say "we make camp for the night" more or less at will. If a short rest needs a night's sleep but there's an understanding there will be one regular combat encounter (/equivalent) per day, it's perfectly fine. e: YES THAT
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Jan 12, 2020 11:52
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Has anyone else had a problem buying items in the offline character builder? I've added money to the character so they can afford the item, but the "buy" button is greyed out. I can just "add" the item and then subtract the money, but that's a pain. The issue only seems to affect worn items, like rings or neck slot items - I can "buy" non-worn stuff like ropes and carts just fine. ----- Regarding hexcrawling, I guess you could make each "expedition" into the world count as a day - while out in the world you can only take short rests, regardless of time spent. Then when the party returns home they can have a long rest. Gort fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 12:20
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I like the idea of true extended rest being limited to civilizations, and will probably adopt it, or something akin to it. Based both off of what you guys have said, as well as my own desire to make the world seem alive and uncontrolled, here is what I am thinking, feedback would be more than welcome. My thought was to use random encounters as 3/hex, with somewhere between a 36%-17% chance of them being combat encounters depending on testing, hex type and character based stuff like Ranger's favored terrain, which I would probably house rule in specifically for this hex system. I want actual "encounters" to proc 70%-50% of the time, so a lot would be fluff. Basically what I want is for each hex to be a days worth of travel, said travel feel kind of lively and for about a battle a hex, with some having 2 or more and some having none, encouraging the players to constantly asses how hard they wish to push. I think I also want to allow extended rest in the middle of the wilderness, but I'm not sure the cost, as I definitely want there to be a cost, but am currently only thinking of a per-watch encounter system with tougher fights both from nocturnal predators but also lack of prep. My main reason for wanting wilderness rest is that I plan to make actual towns rare, and dungeons may be a week or so from any given town. If I'm unable to come up with a satisfying middle ground I could place forts or make dungeons have a clear condition, possibly per floor for more complex dungeons, that would render them usable for extended rest. I've not run as much 4 as I'd like so any feedback on this would be super welcome.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:11
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Dungeons could be used for extended rests, as could forts that take only a single (but guaranteed and quite difficult) fight to clear out.
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Jan 12, 2020 19:33
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Take a page from Pillars of Eternity 1. A safe extended rest requires some kind of consumable resource and they can only carry x amount of it. Makes it into a matter of resource management, and it's easy to work around difficulty wise. If they are crushing it the items are rare, if they're getting hammered then they can loot some. Maybe wardstones that protect a camp but burn out after one shot, something like that.
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Jan 12, 2020 21:46
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Oh yeah, wardstones or something like it would work as it's going to be a dying earth style setting. That also means I can attach them to the idea of using forts without having to worry too much about fort spacing. As a thematic thing, I'm wondering about including imperfect or cracked wardstones, which could be made via a ritual, and would have a small failure chance (15% probably) but would always work in a fortified location with a wardstone amplifier. Perhaps true wardstones wouldn't burn out in this setting, sor forts or certain cleared dungeons are still valuable for strategic mapping but not always required if my map had say... A giant desert or harsh tundra or thick forest... Speaking of that, I was thinking of making rituals and certain feats (namely the expertise, improved defense and mounted combat feats, but also likely some style feats) accessible outside of the leveling system via Master NPCs that would just teach them as bonus feats. I figure this both gets rid of feat taxes while still making them special, while also tying them in narratively. Since I don't plan on giving the players more than an evocative plot hook and some rumours of masters/rituals/treasure before opening the sandbox, I figure this might incentivize exploration, which makes risking dangerous encounters with few resources more interesting. Has anyone tried something like this? I would probably still allow these feats to be taken if players preferred.
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Jan 12, 2020 22:03
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Whybird posted:It goes hand in hand with the idea that in a hexcrawl game, you're encountering far fewer enemies. 4e is balanced around the assumption that you fight like three or four groups of enemies in a day, and getting a night's sleep doesn't happen till the end of a dungeon. In a hexcrawl setup those same encounters would be stretched out over a week-long expedition, with a night's rest all but guaranteed between them. If a short rest is all but guaranteed after each encounter, why bother changing how much time it takes? The only reason to change how much time it takes is to restrict how often/when the players can perform a short rest, which would inevitably lead to players facing multiple encounters without short resting.
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Jan 13, 2020 00:01
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If I wanted to scrap (long) rests in their totality in 4E what refresh schedule should I give people? I think you need to be able to gain a certain number of surges, daily powers, daily enchantments, and action points after every fight, but I'm not sure what number I should be giving.
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Jan 13, 2020 00:11
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You can probably tie it to the milestone system. Recharge like 1/4-1/3 of their surges, and a daily power every milestone and a daily enchantment or two every milestone in addition to the action point. Refresh everything on level up.
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Jan 13, 2020 00:36
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In the game I'm running I've defined long rests to mean 'you spend enough time in a civilized place relaxing and enjoying yourselves that your enemies have the opportunity to advance their schemes'.
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Jan 13, 2020 01:03
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Gort posted:Has anyone else had a problem buying items in the offline character builder? I've added money to the character so they can afford the item, but the "buy" button is greyed out. I can just "add" the item and then subtract the money, but that's a pain. It seems fiddly around the search features and any selections made in sub menus. So if you were just looking at weapons, and then had to select that it was a longsword, and then you searched for "flaming", it doesn't like it if you then swap to hand slots without clearing the search text and sometimes that the weapon you wanted was a longsword. it also really doesn't like it if you were just buying rituals and did any of that either.
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Jan 15, 2020 15:42
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So I'm running a Star Wars themed one-shot for some coworkers who were curious about D&D, and wanted to ask 2 things: 1) Is there a generally considered a "best" combat cheat sheet I can steal? 2) I made reference cards for powers and equipment, am I missing anything?     Thank you!
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Jan 19, 2020 18:22
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Force Lightning looks like an implement power but it has the weapon keyword. Hunter's Vibroblade has the wrong "its".
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Jan 19, 2020 20:33
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The Crotch posted:Force Lightning looks like an implement power but it has the weapon keyword. Ah, tired grammar strikes again... It's reskinned dragonborn breath, but I think I have the keywords from the previous encounter on their, I'll have to look more closely at these before I print them.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:09
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Literally just say "you can't take a long rest more frequently than every four encounters. " It is a game.
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Jan 20, 2020 03:41
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One thing I might do if redesigning cards is to add a quick diagram for blasts and bursts so it's easier to remember what the difference between a close blast and a close burst is.
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Jan 20, 2020 03:43
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A long time ago in one of these threads someone said, “burst = bURst = U R the center” and it stuck for me and everyone in my group.
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Jan 20, 2020 04:34
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neonchameleon posted:One thing I might do if redesigning cards is to add a quick diagram for blasts and bursts so it's easier to remember what the difference between a close blast and a close burst is. This is a good idea and I'll probably adopt it when I redesign these cards to be more permanent to account for the lack of a character builder
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Jan 20, 2020 05:22
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neonchameleon posted:One thing I might do if redesigning cards is to add a quick diagram for blasts and bursts so it's easier to remember what the difference between a close blast and a close burst is.
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Jan 20, 2020 09:53
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Moriatti posted:Ah, tired grammar strikes again... It's reskinned dragonborn breath, but I think I have the keywords from the previous encounter on their, I'll have to look more closely at these before I print them. While you’re at it, the spelling is “wielding”!
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Jan 20, 2020 14:02
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RE: Burst vs Blast, I know that Blast isn't a cone, but just remembering that it replaced cone was helpful to me.Subjunctive posted:While you’re at it, the spelling is “wielding”! ....!
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Jan 20, 2020 14:07
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And you use the wrong version of "its" in the Hunter's Vibroblade
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Jan 20, 2020 14:09
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Moriatti posted:So I'm running a Star Wars themed one-shot for some coworkers who were curious about D&D, and wanted to ask 2 things: As long as we're picking nits:
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Jan 21, 2020 00:30
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Thank you for the feedback! I'll have to look over the consistency and spelling issues... That stuff is basically invisible to me until pointed out, so I'm glad you guys did. You are correct in assuming I'm not tracking weight for this one-shot, I also made Melee Training and Expertise defaults and buffed the former. Unrelated, someone in a 4e Facebook group I'm part of asked about 1 on 1 play so I suggested the easy and obvious answers (companions/multiple pcs for the player) but also gave a quick homebrew, how bad did I gently caress up? fb posted:Someone in a Facebook group asked about solo play so I churned this out after a few minutes of thought... What do you guys think? Did I really goof the math?
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Jan 21, 2020 18:39
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I'd assume people would overwhelmingly pick leader on one side, lacking other consistent healing. Self buffs ARE nice, but they tend to be force multipliers, so fewer targets could get weird. You may need to address limitations on free attacks per turn. You'll also need to address things like immediate actions. +5/-5 will definitely give some spread, but if you keep one immediate action that refreshes every turn you have, then you might lose immediate actions. Having 2 immediate actions/round, with one being refreshed per turn, MIGHT help, but I'm not sure. Speaking of immediate actions, some trigger when an ally does something. For those to be useful, you'd need some capability of using them on your own turn. It's a weird situation for the second class. Having SOME control is good, but full controller can be a pain with low damage. Strikers can do damage, but have a weird issue with multi-vs-single focus. Ranged classes are probably right out. Defenders bring some control and some damage, but marking is basically invalidated. Weird.
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Jan 21, 2020 21:37
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Yeah, I figured limiting the third character to some degree would make up for weird self-synergies and let you be some strange hero man. I probably will never play with these rules, since I don't envision myself playing a 1 on 1 campaign where I don't literally homebrew everything, and 1 on 1s during a regular session I would just resking BattleCon poo poo for any significant fights and use attack modifier as a skill check for others. But I figured it was a fun exercise to try and do a quick and dirty homebrew for those who were less inclined to make their own.
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Jan 21, 2020 21:47
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Doesn't that character still have the same HP of a single character? Edit: No, I just can't read good
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Jan 21, 2020 22:47
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Constitution score is still a big deal, if you're adding the whole thing. Having part of your class be con primary (Warlock was my immediate thought, with the good basic attacks) might be a good way in. Defenses are an issue, although with double feats, not like you can shore that up. But hoo boy, picking MORE feats. I can imagine getting brain synergies going super fast is a thing. Actually, stats in general are weird. Might be better to kill ability scores entirely and tie HP entirely to class. Otherwise, you're forced into a small subset of characters. I'd really like a 1 player 1 DM game, but I think you need to build it from the ground up. I've seen one before, and it didn't impress me. It's a kinda weird challenge. Do you have a character who can do everything, or do you base the entire game around the character limitations? Definitely computer games like that, but even those tend to have specific types of characters, rather than several with radically different capabilities.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:34
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Gharbad the Weak posted:It's a kinda weird challenge. Do you have a character who can do everything, or do you base the entire game around the character limitations? Definitely computer games like that, but even those tend to have specific types of characters, rather than several with radically different capabilities. Edit: Now I want to run this, too. God dammit.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:42
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Constitution score is still a big deal, if you're adding the whole thing. Having part of your class be con primary (Warlock was my immediate thought, with the good basic attacks) might be a good way in. Best abil to hp backgrounds would be ideal, I didn't think about MAD, might be best to give a unique array, ie 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8? Double feats is either really fun or unfun pending player... hmm... I also can't believe I didn't make a Epic Mount option, though I guess you would want mounted combat as a bonus feat. Though then you could give each it's own feat, weapon expertise of the Ancestral Weapon type for instance... Hmmm... As for homebrewing, I would largely steal from more than 4e I guess? PMush Perfect posted:I think careful encounter design after you know the character's capabilities might help with that. Honestly let me know how it goes, I'm curious to see what this monstrosity looks like in practice but deffo won't get a chance to test it myself.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:00
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Moriatti posted:Best abil to hp backgrounds would be ideal, I didn't think about MAD, might be best to give a unique array, ie 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8? Double feats is either really fun or unfun pending player... hmm... I disagree. To make defenses work, then you really can't have a weak defense, and a better array won't fix that.. If we're still leveling 2 abilities per level, then that 14 doesn't matter much. If my reflex save is 8-10 below the others, then difficulty is "what targets reflex?" But, if you change it to 3 (or four!) abilities raised, you're honestly close enough to ditch ability scores (or ability score scaling, at least) outright. Have some static numbers (assign fort, ref and will directly, so you can still have weaknesses, but not huge ones), and raise them all together (we could skip this, but one cow at a time). You're doubling feats anyway, so you've got options if you want to be super good at a skill or save or whatever.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:57
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My concern with static numbers is that it feels like they shouldn't exist at that point? I agree that the ability raise should be increased if ability scores are kept... Again, I think it's something that would be discarded in a bespoke system rather than a 4e hack.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:11
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Moriatti posted:My concern with static numbers is that it feels like they shouldn't exist at that point? Well, you may want attack/defense numbers, if you want it tactical. This attack is +8 to attack because it's more accurate and stuff. If you're moving away from that, then you're heading far enough away from 4e that you should start with something that can handle non-tactical combat. You COULD do things like "roll 3d6 keep 2 for advantage", but that's also gonna involve reworking enough to probably start from scratch, or another system. But for charisma and constitution? Definitely ditch.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:25
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I mean, even then, if your numbers scale at the same ratefor each characters and then the enemies also scale based on level then you're just tracking 15-45% hit chance pending enemy so.... You could, and possibly should do that, but at that point you are probably looking at a bespoke system. Plus, I think the fun of this hack would be tackling situations that are normally a team afair with your super-hero, and while a bad defense may not be great, a bad skill or two would be, since that's just not an option for that character, and they have to work around it. I would want to keep that element, and the customization and fiddlyness that 4e allows, which is the main reason I could think of to do 4e solo rather than take the lighter and more moddable Strike!.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:33
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Oh yeah, absolutely, there's no purpose to "make numbers bigger" except "make numbers bigger". Not a hill I'm dying on. I think as a solo character, you'd need kinda fundamentally different things. Self-sustain is huge, but, say, letting yourself be a leader who can use your healing every turn might be an issue, and at THAT point, you might want to say "well you have to act as a single class each round" which is its OWN thing... I think taking the general idea of a 4e character and then making some unique chassis would work better in the end. Go in with the full intention: this dude is gonna mess people up. Take inspiration from the other classes, use the same general ruleset, but pump up the jam. Give them at-wills that can target any defense. More flexibility, some ability to heal themselves (beyond second wind), or at least gain back spent resources (so you don't have actually 30 encounter abilities, that WILL paralyze most people). Which means, clearly, the best class to base everything on is the Vampire. FINALLY ITS TIME TO SHINE
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Jan 22, 2020 02:50
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Oh yeah, absolutely, there's no purpose to "make numbers bigger" except "make numbers bigger". Not a hill I'm dying on. Oh yeah, definitely, as I said, homebrewing a new system on the loose framework of a game will always be better than a quick rule, but I would need way more details than the guy laid out in his Facebook post. That said, ye, if I were to make specific 4e based powers, Vampire and Beastmaster would be the ones I'd want to play with.
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Jan 22, 2020 02:56
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It definitely runs with "the best way to enjoy 4e is to completely upend the very basics of its own design".
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Jan 22, 2020 03:06
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And people say it isn't a D&D game
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Jan 22, 2020 03:40
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A long while back I wanted to run a superhero game in 4e. It was doable, but I've realized that it would be easier to do in a 4e-inspired system like Strike! than in straight 4e. I enjoy playing FFG Star Wars, but I still have the urge to do a homebrew that simplifies the character options.
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Jan 22, 2020 16:51
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