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You are better off basically sealing your HQ off and having dupes only get out via suits in all directions, they mine faster, you don't have to worry about them getting themselves killed as much.
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Jan 21, 2020 03:46
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Can dupes have fun and hang out in atmo suits? I'm thinking about just sealing off my living quarters.
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Jan 21, 2020 04:42
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The aquatuner doesn't delete heat, just transfers it. The result is that if you are putting water through it, it will transfer a massive quantity of heat. In order to not break itself and its surroundings you'll have to have a big heat sink - put it in a pool of water. The overheat temperatures of buildings like these are very important. Try to use a material that has +overheat, like gold amalgam or steel. Do not use lead. nrook posted:Can dupes have fun and hang out in atmo suits? I'm thinking about just sealing off my living quarters. Yep, some people have the atmosuit checkpoints outside the bedroom.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:02
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nrook posted:Can dupes have fun and hang out in atmo suits? I'm thinking about just sealing off my living quarters. Mine used surfboard simulators regularly wearing suits, before I got the rec area built into my hab module online. It kind of makes sense that they wouldn’t be able to like get massages in suits, and eat or drink without opening their helmets, but still be able to like surf or play video games, but that’s just my reasoning based on the idea of environment suits.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:03
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Unfortunately, the desalinator was gold amalgam. Basically, treat substances fresh out of a geyser with caution. I will say that air-dropping liquids from one level to another helps.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:15
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Only a few things in the game actually remove heat and it's an important concept to understand. Wheezeworts, steam engines, those machines in cold biomes that are helium powered (AETNs i think), and the vacuum of space. I think ice machines technically but they hardly count. Every other method of cooling things off is really just transferring heat around. Venting heat into a heat sink like a cold biome or a pool of water or just making a cooling waterfall are all just delaying your inevitable heat death. They can buy time for you to get up a permanent system but you should still remember that they themselves are not permanent. Personally I'm a big fan of AETNs as a method for cooling gasses as a method of cooling the base itself. Since AETNs run off helium and helium is practically impossible to freeze I like to run a giant snake of helium piping. First I snake it from whatever source I'm using (SPOMs can easily run an AETN with their excess) all around the AETN in radiant piping to drop it to as cold as I can get it, then insulate it all the way back to the base and then run it through the walls to act as a radiator before leading it back to the AETN to actually fuel it. The amount of gas that moves through them with that set up is tiny and won't have a very high specific heat but it comes in at -50 or whatever and you can at least offset alot of the lower heat producing things in the base like rec room machines and lightbulbs. For extra points you can loop the entire thing back to your helium storage room/tanks so that a constant flow of helium at maximum capcity is going through your pipes which should provide more cooling in exchange for potential logistics problems. You can also cool the oxygen from your SPOMs with an AETN but since the oxygen tends to move in fits and spurts (as your vents constantly over pressurize and close if your SPOMs work anything like mine) it's incosistent and I find the constant flow of helium works better. E: oh and technically some machines can 'remove' heat in a sense. Like an electrolyzer will always output gasses at 70C even if your water comes in at 10C. So you can heat your water up to 70C before sending it to an electrolyzer without actually increasing the heat an electrolyzer puts out.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:32
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You forgot cold slush geysers, which provide a ton of cooling. My preferred method is to just stick an aquatuner inside a steam engine. Nonsense as far as physics go, but convenient.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:36
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One rocket's not cutting it anymore. Am I correct that with jetpacks I can both build and man/exit rockets without gantries? I have oxygen and petroleum in abundance, and really don't feel like building all those gantries and circuits.
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Jan 21, 2020 06:50
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Remy Marathe posted:One rocket's not cutting it anymore. Am I correct that with jetpacks I can both build and man/exit rockets without gantries? I have oxygen and petroleum in abundance, and really don't feel like building all those gantries and circuits. Yep. This is pretty much the only real application for jetpacks too. Just limit the areas your duplicants can get to in the jetsuits, the pathfinding on them can really grind the game to a halt.
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Jan 21, 2020 07:09
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So I can leave my game on indefinitely now without any issues (I left the game on before work once and 10 hours later literally nothing changed) but I still can’t go longer than 10 cycles with a large dig queue’d up without someone digging themselves to their own death. Even with loving jetsuits someone will fly into a pool of water or run out of fuel and die within 10 cycles 
Mazz fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 09:52
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Dupes lust for death. This is the biggest thing I've learned from ONI.
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Jan 21, 2020 10:47
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The Lemondrop Dandy posted:Dupes lust for death. This is the biggest thing I've learned from ONI. 
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Jan 21, 2020 14:37
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Good to know you can atmo suit your bedroom, thanks. You can also play "specific heat games" for cooling. For example, polluted water has a higher heat capacity than regular water. As such, if you heat up polluted water and cool down regular water, and then you turn the polluted water into regular water with a water sieve, you're going to wind up with cooler water than you would have just converting it directly. In theory I think you could cool your base exclusively using these kinds of interactions, but that sounds nuts so I can hardly recommend it. You can definitely get some easy wins this way though, through things like cooling the electrolyzer products (which have low heat capacity) rather than the water (which has a high capacity.)
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Jan 21, 2020 15:41
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Remy Marathe posted:One rocket's not cutting it anymore. Am I correct that with jetpacks I can both build and man/exit rockets without gantries? I have oxygen and petroleum in abundance, and really don't feel like building all those gantries and circuits. To add to the other reply, this will work but you may have to build a temporary gantry once in a while. Sometimes your pilot will just refuse to board the rocket until you build one. I think it’s a bug. Edit: also once they’ve boarded they won’t exit the rocket until you either build them a gantry, or deconstruct the command module. Anthony Chuzzlewit fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 15:55
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nrook posted:Good to know you can atmo suit your bedroom, thanks. The SHC thing between Pwater and regular water hasn't been a thing for a year, and they also killed the heat deletion via the sieve several patches ago. I did post a sandbox build a hundred pages ago that used the remaining 5C of water from a water geyser to chill the output oxygen (which would also be at 100C) down to about 60C. It was within SPOM time-frames and didn't require a steam turbine, and only required gold amalgam buildings. It would be easily constructed in survival, before atmosuits.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:05
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insta posted:The SHC thing between Pwater and regular water hasn't been a thing for a year Oh hey you're right, I had never thought to check if they had changed it or not. I wonder why Klei changed it, especially since polluted oxygen still has a higher specific heat than regular oxygen. Still should work with some other stuff though like electrolyzers, although the heat floor on those means you can't do much with it.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:36
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Are there any mods that can help with the slowdown I get in the lategame due to pathing/poo poo lying around? I'm going to be doing a new base soon because my old base kinda just got too much slowdown to function anymore. I know I can design my mining operations better to limit the pathing but maybe there are mods that'd help.
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Jan 21, 2020 17:52
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Agent355 posted:(good stuff) That was an awesome and useful post. Thank you.
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Jan 21, 2020 18:12
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Agent355 posted:Are there any mods that can help with the slowdown I get in the lategame due to pathing/poo poo lying around? I'm going to be doing a new base soon because my old base kinda just got too much slowdown to function anymore. Nope, sweep. Cap the asteroid to prevent more meteors from coming in.
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Jan 21, 2020 18:26
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What's the dupe population, sans jetpacks, where you guys start to ger slowdowns?
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Jan 21, 2020 18:45
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I was at 20 dupes but I'm not sure if it's number of dupes or number of explorable areas. Once I had explored all the way from the roof to the floor of the area it started to be real noticeable. In the future I plan to expand more carefully and fully mine out areas that I want to turn into production zones. Make them tiered floors instead of relatively randomly placed chunks and then mine/deconstruct 2 tiles from my ladders to everywhere I don't immediately care about. That way it will limit the number of paths my dupes could possibly go.
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Jan 21, 2020 20:34
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I hadn't realized how much long-term trouble the verdant planet was going to be; it doesn't have cold biomes, at all. No wheezeworts unless you get lucky in the blueprints.
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Jan 21, 2020 21:46
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My current seed has a cool steam geyser right over a natural gas geyser. Is there a nifty synergy between the two, or should I encapsulate them as two separate geysers? (Fortunately this is on Rime.)
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Jan 22, 2020 00:01
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Nothing useful between the two, sorry. You could maybe try passing the natural gas through the steam room to help condense it, but I don't know how much that'll help.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:06
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I hadn't realized how much long-term trouble the verdant planet was going to be; it doesn't have cold biomes, at all. No wheezeworts unless you get lucky in the blueprints. If you have a frozen core there are wheeze's everywhere you can a see the cracks of a buried object. If you have a regular core; 
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Jan 22, 2020 00:26
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Mazz posted:If you have a frozen core there are wheeze's everywhere you can a see the cracks of a buried object. If you have a regular core; Eh, I don't use wheezes. They're not necessary to survive, just make some things a little easier.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:17
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insta posted:Eh, I don't use wheezes. They're not necessary to survive, just make some things a little easier. More in the context of Lupin’s post. There are alternatives to wheezes, up to and including that mod that lets you build AETNs for 4000 refined metal. An AETN is really just 8 wheezes in 4 tiles with a hydrogen input so it’s not even that gimmicky. Thermoregulators also work fine for lots of applications tho I know the thread prefers the efficiency of aquatuners.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:24
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There's a variety of ways to get rid of heat wheezes are just the easiest, really. No engineering needed, no fancy machines. Just some plants.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:34
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I don't even bother with wheezes since I've seen how much better steam turbines are at annihilating heat. One turbine at full power deletes as much heat as 73 wheezeworts. Throttle down the steam temperature so it can self-cool and it's still doing as much as about 28 wheezes. And you can build as many as you need, instead of being limited to what you can find or print (or bring back on rockets). It takes time to tech your way up to turbines and the associated aquatuners are pretty power-hungry, so wheezeworts might delay your heat death long enough to get to that point. But I feel like early on I wasted a lot of time and effort trying to maximize wheezewort cooling when I would've been better served just pushing ahead to turbines. In the meantime you can just dump your heat into a big tank of water and worry about it later. Just stay away from hot geysers or you'll make your heat problem very immediate and unavoidable (except natural gas, since you feed that directly into generators and delete the heat).
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Jan 22, 2020 01:44
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I hadn't realized how much long-term trouble the verdant planet was going to be; it doesn't have cold biomes, at all. No wheezeworts unless you get lucky in the blueprints. the rust biome may not be full of ice, but it's still cold enough to use as a big heatsink until you have a proper heat deletion system set up.
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Jan 22, 2020 02:29
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Would someone mind posting a simple steam-turbine-aquatuner setup? I want to build my first, but the task seems a smidge daunting.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:01
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go back like 3 pages, or look at my recent post history.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:04
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I'm trying to make a big silo that stacks POx over Chlorine over CO2 over PWater so I can farm Pacu filets, Caps, Lily and Bleach stone (Pufts will produce the last one). The problem is that this is way too big to be a stable but the Pacus are better off wild so they don't eat all my algae. Does this sound workable? I don't have a Chlorine geyser but I could always get that mod to spawn them if I run out of my 250+ kg supply. My main source of food is raw mealwood right now so I'd like to migrate to a diet of fried mushroom with opportunistic omelettes and BBQ/filets. Those last two I can get from a simple Hatch ranch and/or my current Dreckos but I feel like the Pacus and Pufts can be kept at replacement levels easily enough if I stick an incubator in there without a grooming station? My massive mealwood farm would just end up feeding the hatches and eventually wreck my dirt supply, but a big tank where everything is wild seems like it could feed 13. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 04:58
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insta posted:go back like 3 pages, or look at my recent post history. Aha! insta posted:I took some screenshots of the super-compact tuner build I'm using scattered around my base. This one is for cooling an arbor farm on Oasisse, but it has a similar one elsewhere that cools my entire living quarters. Neither of them is taxed very hard, and both are using gold amalgam aquatuners. The compactness of the build means the turbine is not as power-positive as it could be, but I have a literal million kg of coal from my 12-bay hatchfarm (again, Oasisse) so I'm not hurting for power. It costs maybe 800 watts to run when cooling (vs. maybe 500 if it was built at peak-efficency). That was not 3 pages ago.
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Jan 22, 2020 05:22
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That's hard to beat for compactness and convenience, but a couple considerations with that build: 1. One steam turbine technically can't keep up with the output of an aquatuner (it's about a 3:2 ratio with pwater as your coolant). Keeping a farm cool is pretty light work so the aquatuner will only occasionally be running, but if you decided to extend that coolant loop to cool every heat-producing building you own and let it run for days then you'll eventually hit its limit and start overheating the aquatuner. Repairing it would require opening up the steam room, which would result in an incredible steam explosion (unless maybe you deconstruct the top-right corner and they can repair it diagonally). 2. The turbine will be outputting a fair amount of heat into the surroundings. Maybe no big deal depending on what's around - the heat will eventually make its way downwards and get picked up by the coolant loop to get re-destroyed anyway. If you want to make a more heavy-duty cooler than can run indefinitely without bleeding any heat and you have more space to spare, you can widen the chamber to fit two turbines, snake their output pipes back and forth over themselves (make sure they're radiant), and seal them in with insulated tiles. Might need to splash some water on the floor of the room with the turbines, or fill the room with hydrogen, if they aren't cooling themselves well enough to work continuously.
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Jan 22, 2020 06:21
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Shumagorath posted:I'm trying to make a big silo that stacks POx over Chlorine over CO2 over PWater so I can farm Pacu filets, Caps, Lily and Bleach stone (Pufts will produce the last one). The problem is that this is way too big to be a stable but the Pacus are better off wild so they don't eat all my algae. Does this sound workable? I don't have a Chlorine geyser but I could always get that mod to spawn them if I run out of my 250+ kg supply. So you have 4 things you want to do: 1)Farm pacu 2)Farm mushrooms 3)Farm balm lily? 4)Farm bleach stone Farming balm lily as anything other than feed for dreckos is kind of strange. They have very limited use and the amount just lying around the map far more than supplies what I typically use. Bleach stone is used for the hot tub, waterweed, and the hand sanitizer. Puft farming is painful, I can't help you on that one. Dusk caps are a very good use for slime, though if you are trying to get the slime from pufts I'd suggest another food source. Pacu are good to farm, you don't have to keep them wild as they won't starve even tame. I prefer to keep them out of polluted water though my reasons for this will likely not apply to you, it will rot filets left in the water faster though. Honestly, none of these really benefit from being located in the same place. I would just separate your operations. Edit: if you are using wild animals, you will not get any omelettes if you keep them at replacement levels. Feeding duplicants cooked fish would require 15.625 pacu/duplicant. Wild pufts would require 35 pufts/duplicant. Hatches 21.25 rockmonsters/duplicant. Combining the cooked fish with barbeque would get you surf'n'nturf and a few extra calories. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 08:03
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The other problem is that you’ll need to constantly supply both chlorine and PO2 in significant quantities to keep up with the pufts, to the point this is better excuted as seperate rooms to avoid the awful gas management required.
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Jan 22, 2020 08:51
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Mazz posted:The other problem is that you’ll need to constantly supply both chlorine and PO2 in significant quantities to keep up with the pufts, to the point this is better excuted as seperate rooms to avoid the awful gas management required. Lillies were just because I would have a layer of Chlorine so why not.
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Jan 22, 2020 12:12
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Shumagorath posted:Chlorine I can cover for awhile but I figured the PWater would off-gas POx? I even have a Morb found in a ruin (not that I can rely on it). If Pufts are annoying and I will use more bleach stone building the dispensers to handle their slime than they ever put out I can stick to a Cap farm and just move the whole thing to the basement. Not above sandboxing it since I'm half done and the cleanup will be total rear end. The complication is that pufts actually eat a ton of PO2 and standing water does not offgas it in sufficient quantities; same with chlorine for the squeaky pufts. The gasses will get unbalanced a lot to the point that gravity will not be sufficient in maintaining the layers unless you use a tile boundary per layer to limit gas movement, like I use for my drecko farms:  The only open tile for gas movement is the ladder tile, so even when the H/O2 unbalance it's still very difficult for them to displace each other vertically. The doors are closed for 99.6% of the the day, they only open to drop anything up top into the sweeper arms below. If it was just airflow all the way across, you need to maintain 2k pressure on both gasses forever or they'll displace each other pretty badly. At this point I have both "failsafes" in play because I can, but still. To do multiple layers as you envision is going to be difficult and tedious vs just making discrete facilities for each from experience. -- There are some other options though, Here is my current farm/ranch area, minus the dreckos/nymphs shown elsewhere:  Most of this is straightforward but the big relevant items are the morb/puft farm and the pacu farm: The morb/puft farm uses a mesh tile barrier and door controls to lock morbs into the space below and leaves a manual toilet in there at full capacity; this will spawn a morb every few minutes. You need like 10 morbs per puft to actually get PO2 positive, so this will take a while, but I have ~82 morbs now so it does work in time. I also dump all excess polluted dirt into that door locked chamber from the loader above to add to PO2 offgassing now that I have more dirt than I'll ever loving need from my ethanol line. Another trick is run a pipe of PW in there and them plumber it out till you have stacks of like 5t of PW containers, they will offgas significantly. Standing PW pools is not a sufficient source pretty much ever. The Pacu farm uses 1 tank to feed 2-3 tame pacus for the eggs, which are swept and dumped into the neighboring suffering tank. I also have a separate tank for gulp pacu because they're cool. The feeders are fed by 2 sweeper arms controlled by a pair of clock sensors on an OR sensor; this reduces the algae use down to like 10-20kg a day; 5-10kg once, and 5-10kg again later depending on how fast the fish eat. Every plant but balm lily can survive in CO2 so I just liquid lock in the rest of the farm area in and maximize the CO2 pressure, this limits offgassing of PO2 from any slime storage for the mushrooms. You can ignore the nosh beans, that's more or less an experiment to see if I could localize the cold for them with the AETN; it worked but without the AETN mod is a giant waste of an AETN. My advice for the AETN mod; require they use 4000 Steel as a balance point. It will limit use early when it matters and make things feel more balanced. You will use a surprisingly little amount of bleach stone over the course of the game unless you are planting an absolute shitload of lettuce, so I don't really bother with squeaky pufts. That being said, I did set up my big gas storage tanks horizontally specifically so I could liquid lock the entrances and put things inside; like the ranching point for squeaky or oxylite pufts. 
Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 13:45
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I have some hand sanitizers and ore scrubbers built to deal with being surrounded by a layer of slime on all sides so I figured farming bleach stone was required. The rest was mostly to synergize but given what you've described I think a cap farm and maybe a Pacu tank somewhere else makes more sense. I'm just going to clean everything up in sandbox mode and try something more manageable. Thanks!
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Jan 22, 2020 22:53
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