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Pinterest Mom posted:e: yeah what TheCenturion said Hmmm... well, that's fair enough, I guess. Although I think civilizations spanning significant fractions of the galaxy and all the resources from hundreds of star systems probably should have a LOT of ships available. But it's true, they never say how many.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:04
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zoux posted:Why terraform mars when you can go squat on a nice planet in the neutral zone Well Mars ain't easy to terraform. Gravity would be losing a dense atmosphere continuously and you'd need to build and power an artificial planetary magnetosphere to keep the solar radiation levels below dangerous, since the natural one froze a while ago and it's unprotected.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:05
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MikeJF posted:Well Mars ain't easy to terraform. Gravity can't hold an atmosphere and you'd need to build and power an artificial planetary magnetosphere to keep the solar radiation levels below dangerous, since the natural one froze a while ago and it's unprotected. Not quite. Mars can hold an atmosphere just fine for a very long time--it's not about the gravity so much as the solar wind, which slowly strips the atmosphere off since there's no magnetic field. However that's a process over many, many millions of years, and if you have the technology to build the atmosphere up in the first place keeping it topped up is trivial. Titan's atmosphere is thicker than Earth's and its gravity is less than half that of Mars. The magnetosphere is a problem, but air actually filters radiation pretty well. If you can't create an artificial magnetosphere somehow, you could give Mars a thicker atmosphere than Earth and it would take care of most of the problem. Also with Trek medical technology I don't think this would be much of an issue anyway.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:09
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True, true. Maybe the Red Mars faction put a stop to all the environmental damage of terraforming.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:11
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Maybe Mars is a historic nature preserve
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Jan 24, 2020 21:12
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I thought we’d seen some level of terraforming on Mars before? I could have sworn Voyager or something showed people walking around on the surface with minimal equipment?
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Jan 24, 2020 21:15
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I thought we’d seen some level of terraforming on Mars before? I could have sworn Voyager or something showed people walking around on the surface with minimal equipment? Enterprise mentions that Mars is terraformed enough you can go on the surface without a pressure suit, though it's still cold as poo poo. E: The problem is the VFX never matched the description. Mars shouldn't look the same, there should be visible cloud formations and seas and stuff by TNG era. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 21:15
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Did they need breathers in Enterprise?
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Jan 24, 2020 21:18
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zoux posted:Easily thousands 40x250=10,000 40×600= 24,000 Depends on average crew complement. Seas on mars would never be photogenic because the entire northern hemisphere is one big basin Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 21:20
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Have they ever explained why the Supernova didn't take years to impact other nearby systems at light speed?
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Jan 24, 2020 21:26
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zoux posted:Why terraform mars when you can go squat on a nice planet in the neutral zone Why would anyone want to live there? It's a dump.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:29
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MikeJF posted:Well Mars ain't easy to terraform. Gravity would be losing a dense atmosphere continuously and you'd need to build and power an artificial planetary magnetosphere to keep the solar radiation levels below dangerous, since the natural one froze a while ago and it's unprotected. You don't have to build a magnetosphere. NASA has a plan for building a magnetic shield at Mars' L1 lagrange point. That would divert solar wind around Mars so the atmosphere doesn't get stripped away. Like Grand Fromage said, it would take thousands of years for the atmosphere to be stripped away normally. It's definitely possible for people with Star Trek tech to do something like that.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:29
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zoux posted:Why terraform mars when you can go squat on a nice planet in the neutral zone I believe Mars was colonized early in Earth's space exploration, even before they formed the Federation, when warp speeds were way slower. Also, it's almost in transporter range of Earth so it's really convenient even now.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:32
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MichiganCubbie posted:If the entire shipyards were wiped out, and Mars is "still on fire to this day," how did only 90,000 people die? I'm pretty sure they also said that the populace of Romulus was also about 900 million, so I'm assuming this is Star Trek's traditional problem with scale.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:34
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In the Expanse, which I assume everyone itt watches but I shall spoil it nevertheless Mars is a powerful colony which had built a planetary identity and moral ethic around terraforming, seeing it as building something for their grandchildren. Moses seeing but not going to the promised land so to speak. So when they find all these extra-solar and easily reached habitable worlds due to alien magic, it utterly bodies the Martians, just sucks the character and purpose out of the colony, because why waste all this time and effort, why suffer so to build a habitable world 2, 3, 400 years down the line when you can just go thorugh the gates to a nice, pre-terraformed world. So while it's never really stated that way, it seems like the same dynamic would make sense in the ST universe, and really any universe in which FTL travel + galactic colonization is invented before Mars can be terraformed
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Jan 24, 2020 21:44
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In Star Trek there are all kinds of different colonies. There are colonies where people just live a normal life, and colonies where people want to start over and build a new world. I don't think it would be a stretch for people in the Star Trek universe to want to spend their endless amounts of time bringing Mars back to life. The Expanse takes a more realistic approach to these giant undertakings. The entire population of Mars has to work towards the shared dream of terraforming the planet. In Star Trek, terraforming is often a project undertaken by some guy and his wife because he invented some crazy terraforming technology that is turning people into ghosts for some reason.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:51
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zoux posted:In the Expanse, which I assume everyone itt watches but I shall spoil it nevertheless Mars is a powerful colony which had built a planetary identity and moral ethic around terraforming, seeing it as building something for their grandchildren. Moses seeing but not going to the promised land so to speak. So when they find all these extra-solar and easily reached habitable worlds due to alien magic, it utterly bodies the Martians, just sucks the character and purpose out of the colony, because why waste all this time and effort, why suffer so to build a habitable world 2, 3, 400 years down the line when you can just go thorugh the gates to a nice, pre-terraformed world. So while it's never really stated that way, it seems like the same dynamic would make sense in the ST universe, and really any universe in which FTL travel + galactic colonization is invented before Mars can be terraformed Man The Expanse is so loving great. I know there are Star Trek fans who refuse to watch it because they think it's grimdark, but they are really missing out. Best sci-fi on tv in many years.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:51
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Cojawfee posted:In Star Trek there are all kinds of different colonies. There are colonies where people just live a normal life, and colonies where people want to start over and build a new world. I don't think it would be a stretch for people in the Star Trek universe to want to spend their endless amounts of time bringing Mars back to life. The Expanse takes a more realistic approach to these giant undertakings. The entire population of Mars has to work towards the shared dream of terraforming the planet. In Star Trek, terraforming is often a project undertaken by some guy and his wife because he invented some crazy terraforming technology that is turning people into ghosts for some reason. Or they want to leave behind a relaxed utopian life free of worry and build a barn by hand in a war zone contested by space racists
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Jan 24, 2020 21:56
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Just finished the pilot and holy moly it was actually great. More heart and thoughtfulness in this episode than in 2 seasons of Discovery. I am sentimental to the extreme about TNG and DS9, and Picard (the character) in particular, but I'm more interested to see the rest of the show than any Trek TV show since DS9 ended.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:56
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zoux posted:In the Expanse, which I assume everyone itt watches but I shall spoil it nevertheless Mars is a powerful colony which had built a planetary identity and moral ethic around terraforming, seeing it as building something for their grandchildren. Moses seeing but not going to the promised land so to speak. So when they find all these extra-solar and easily reached habitable worlds due to alien magic, it utterly bodies the Martians, just sucks the character and purpose out of the colony, because why waste all this time and effort, why suffer so to build a habitable world 2, 3, 400 years down the line when you can just go thorugh the gates to a nice, pre-terraformed world. So while it's never really stated that way, it seems like the same dynamic would make sense in the ST universe, and really any universe in which FTL travel + galactic colonization is invented before Mars can be terraformed That was one of my favorite bits of the most recent season too. The Expanse does social/institutional story really well.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:03
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Hmmm... well, that's fair enough, I guess. Although I think civilizations spanning significant fractions of the galaxy and all the resources from hundreds of star systems probably should have a LOT of ships available. But it's true, they never say how many. Maybe, but check it out. First, you need to get sufficient shipping to lift 2million+ people to planet A. Then you have to pick 2 million people to lift off. - Do they get time to pack? How much stuff? - how do you pick which people? How do you ensure that the planet continues to function as you're lifting off chunks of people? Now, you need to find somewhere to put them. Do you happen to have planets nearby that can absorb two million bodies per day? Feed them? Shelter them? Keep them relatively sanitary? Meanwhile, while you're transporting those two million, you need an equal number of ships already at the planet picking up the NEXT two million. And bear in mind, you're transporting those people, every time, somewhere far enough away that wherever they land isn't going to be affected by the supernova. So likely more than a few days round-trip-time. Now, multiply that by the number of planets that are going to be affected. gently caress, take a look at how the US of A, the most powerful, affluent and advanced society on the planet, routinely bungles what should be straight-forward disaster relief efforts.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:22
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:First episode of Picard was pretty neat. I think Maddox was bullshitting. Sure, consciousness could have a fractal aspect, but a whole mind with memories encoded in one neuron ? it's either technobabble we're thinking about harder than the writers 9as usual), or Maddox loaded Dahj with the fragmentary memories recovered from B4. That's my theory, that and he used Lore as the basis for the synths that went rogue.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:23
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It would have been cool to have Mars not even be in the Federation, like it declared independence and just sat out all the intergalactic poo poo going on while enjoying both the Federation's orbit of protection as well as their discomfort with colonization come the 24th century
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Jan 24, 2020 22:24
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mllaneza posted:I think Maddox was bullshitting. Sure, consciousness could have a fractal aspect, but a whole mind with memories encoded in one neuron ? it's either technobabble we're thinking about harder than the writers 9as usual), or Maddox loaded Dahj with the fragmentary memories recovered from B4. That's my theory, that and he used Lore as the basis for the synths that went rogue. I thought that the idea was that the 'consciousness matrix', for lack of a better term, was fractal; kind of like all you need is one full strand of DNA, in theory, to grow a new person. So you could take one of Data's neurons, use that to grow a new 'positronic brain' that would be stable and as capable of Data's, but would be tabula rasa, not a 'restore data.dat' sort of thing.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:44
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TheCenturion posted:I thought that the idea was that the 'consciousness matrix', for lack of a better term, was fractal; kind of like all you need is one full strand of DNA, in theory, to grow a new person. So you could take one of Data's neurons, use that to grow a new 'positronic brain' that would be stable and as capable of Data's, but would be tabula rasa, not a 'restore data.dat' sort of thing. This is how I read it, too.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:50
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Speaking of modern Star Tracks...
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Jan 24, 2020 22:58
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Lmao even the logo is transparently “this is really just SpaceCom with a new name to placate DiaperPrez”
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Jan 24, 2020 23:01
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TheCenturion posted:Maybe, but check it out. Yeah like Memory Alpha says the Galaxy class has a max capacity of 15,000 people. If you're moving them 50 lys at warp 8, that's a 36 day round trip So you'd need 4,800 Galaxy-classes operating continuously at warp 8 for ten years to evacuate one earth-sized planet.
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Jan 24, 2020 23:07
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Is max capacity for a normal mission, or does that take into account putting 2-4 to a room and filling up the cargo bays?
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Jan 24, 2020 23:10
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That's max capacity when transporting people, IIRC. There'd be limits on the life support systems even if you could physically cram far more people into the ship.
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Jan 24, 2020 23:12
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Would yall join Starfleet or would yall, like me, live a life of aimless luxury space communism while saying “weed, ghost train, dank” to your replicator 5 times a day
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Jan 24, 2020 23:19
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zoux posted:Would yall join Starfleet or would yall, like me, live a life of aimless luxury space communism while saying “weed, ghost train, dank” to your replicator 5 times a day Starfleet is full of smug over ambitious, condescending magnet school nerds like Wesley Crusher so I sure af am living the life of an itinerant penny farthing larper or non-profit part time beach bar operator
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Jan 24, 2020 23:24
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zoux posted:Would yall join Starfleet or would yall, like me, live a life of aimless luxury space communism while saying “weed, ghost train, dank” to your replicator 5 times a day Do both. hotbox stellar cartography
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Jan 24, 2020 23:25
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zoux posted:Would yall join Starfleet or would yall, like me, live a life of aimless luxury space communism while saying “weed, ghost train, dank” to your replicator 5 times a day I’d spend 80 hours a week transporting to mexican restaurants around the world to eat their free chips and salsa but not order anything else
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Jan 24, 2020 23:27
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skasion posted:Do both. hotbox stellar cartography Time for a classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQVc79FE5Bo
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Jan 24, 2020 23:30
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HD DAD posted:I’d spend 80 hours a week transporting to mexican restaurants around the world to eat their free chips and salsa but not order anything else Joke's on you idiot, it's all free.
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Jan 24, 2020 23:30
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Nitrousoxide posted:Have they ever explained why the Supernova didn't take years to impact other nearby systems at light speed? They realized how impossible it was to explain now that they’re doing Serious Trek again, so they changed it to being the star in the Romulan home system being the one that randomly went supernova. So the only planets that were lost were Romulus, Remus, and the rest of the system. Though it has the knock-on effect of making Spock look really bad and incompetent if he still went through with his plan to stop/contain the nova with his weird rear end Mystery Box red matter crap. Because he couldn’t even get to a star ~1 AU away in time before it destroyed the one place he promised to save.
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Jan 24, 2020 23:34
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gently caress me, I wasn't expecting something actually good from ST:P. Humble pie time. TheCenturion posted:gently caress, take a look at how the US of A, the most powerful, affluent and advanced society on the planet, routinely bungles what should be straight-forward disaster relief efforts. This fits with what I suspect is going to be the wider theme of the show - just as TNG was an unabashed celebration of the best aspects of western (And in particular American) culture in the 90s, Picard seems to want to hold a mirror up to that same culture 20 years on and critically explore where it went. I like that someone has recognised and understood the zeitgeist that produced TNG and then decided to see where that zeitgeist goes. That it went nowhere good is a critique of us rather than the universe of the show. There's another, different show to be made that celebrates the best of 2020 in a positive light, but the second you include an iconic 90s character, you sorta have to start exploring the consequences of that world. Just as you would a modern day X-files, or Buffy or whatever. Hey look I'm typing about themes and concepts and ideas. That's something you sure as gently caress can't do with Disco! I wanna also point out how good the screenplay and direction both are. The cut to the two Romulans holding hands just as Picard's interview started to go off the rail told me more about those three characters, and the relationship they all share, than any amount of Tilly 'I CANT GET BUNKMATE CAUSE I'M A NERD, DAT DER POWER OF MATH PEOPLE!!!!' bullshit. From performance to framing, this show was brilliant. The bit where we cut to see the cameraman for not-Fox-news actively choose to slowly zoom in on Picard's face to make him look more guilth after the director hit her gotcha question. That's just good old fashioned storytelling, versus 'Hey let's start the shot of the shuttle bay UPSIDE DOWN WHOOOOOOOA EXCITING ROLLER COASTER' poo poo in Disco. gently caress, even the dumb action shlock was good dumb action shlock. I didn't feel sea sick! I winced when Romulan dudes spine caved around a bannister. It felt a little out of place storywise - I suspect it was there for the trailer team - but they managed to lay off the cut button long enough to let the beats actually mean something.
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Jan 24, 2020 23:37
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poo poo, I loved how that whole thing was just an utter rejection of Action Picard. No dunebuggys and tommyguns here, just a tired old man who's simply not up to that sort of bullshit anymore. I feel like ST:P likes to show things. Like the hands thing you mentioned, where ST:D likes to tell.
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Jan 24, 2020 23:47
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I. I can’t. I can’t believe it. I can’t believe that I liked the Picard show. I can’t wait to see the next episode in fact. I have hope. Hope. Amazing. I haven’t felt this since I was a child!
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Jan 24, 2020 23:57
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