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I am interested to see if on Picard there will any mention of the Dominion Wars or what transpired after the DS9 finale or if they will choose to ignore that entirely.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:01
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We just need to start counting time after the big bang, not local time. Then it all starts to make more sense. At least for me. I’ll just go back to being a simple person that enjoys Star Trek and does not understand current physics  Thanks for all the time and help you beautiful people. Really appreciate it!
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Jan 27, 2020 01:05
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^^^ This becomes substantially more difficult when you realize that the big bang causes the expansion of space itself to travel faster than light and there is no definitive origin point of the big bang... and at sufficient velocities time slows down so you'd also need to define it in terms of velocity . e.martin posted:I am interested to see if on Picard there will any mention of the Dominion Wars or what transpired after the DS9 finale or if they will choose to ignore that entirely. There has to be right? Presumably the reason starfleet got so worked up about losing utopia is because rebuilding the fleets after the catastrophic dominion war which saw thousands? tens of thousands? of starfleet vessels destroyed. There's actually some really fertile ground here if we assume thanks to the Dominion war a large percentage of what we can think of are the old guard - the classic captains like Picard who are explorers - get killed and replaced with officers who grew up fighting the dominion war and the borg. What would Starfleet look like with most of its officer corps replaced and living in a world where like betazed got conquered and the casualty rates that we saw were 20-25%? For comparison that 20-25% casualty rate would be pretty similar to US bomber crews faced in WWII over Europe. That led to a very specific type of officer corps and mentality that took decades to replace. The stories of curtis lemay are legitimately terrifying. If those types of people are now in charge of starfleet - which Picard certainly at least is alluding to - they're going to need to give us more. Personally I can't wait, what a fascinating study of what war can do to something! adaz fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 01:07
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AntherUslessPoster posted:We just need to start counting time after the big bang, not local time. Then it all starts to make more sense. I don't think we have any numbers large enough. Look up January 19, 2038 for something fun that will happen with computers.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:08
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Speaking of mindfucks all of Farscape is available on Amazon Prime Video.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:I’m sorry, but why would the government be encouraging people to just do gay sex Well eventually it became mandated, there was one mission where the main character was despised by his contemporary squad because they were outright heterophobic. The government was combating overpopulation and a scarcity of rations. Gay sex is way safer than any kind of hetero sex when it comes to reproduction. If you need to curb reproductive rates and can't/won't do it by raising quality of life, if you're an all-powerful government/military/corporation you can do some really repressive poo poo where you try and stop everyone from having sex or force sterilize, but then obviously everyone is just going to do it somehow anyway and it will be your downfall. People fucks, it's the first law of humanity. Seems a better idea imo, in those shoes at least, to just lean into a natural behaviour instead. I can't remember if the oppressive government bred the authorized reproductions for gayness or if they did some sci-fi poo poo to force it.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:34
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TrekCore's been posting some curious background tidbits: https://twitter.com/TrekCore/status/1221568498989535233 https://twitter.com/TrekCore/status/1221523202293157888 https://twitter.com/TrekCore/status/1221529536145346560 I wonder if this Soji was another AI construct like Mom, or the actual person we see in the last scene.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:43
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A legitimate question and honestly not trying to stir up anything, I just haven't been keeping up since the whole "incident": does AAtrek still work at TrekCore? Do they still publish anything by him, or does he still have any input on their operations?
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Jan 27, 2020 01:49
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That is a good point there that if they are really twins, it seems really unlikely it wouldn't have come up. Unless there's some reason they don't talk anymore, I would imagine she'd call her sister before her mom. Probably mention it to the person trying to help her.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:50
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Arglebargle III posted:Speaking of mindfucks all of Farscape is available on Amazon Prime Video. In case of a Farscape tangent happening, can I put in a preemptive request to spoiler tag it? I know it’s a twenty year old show, but it’s not really Trek related. And also I’ve only just started watching it and would like to keep going as blind as possible.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:54
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piratepilates posted:A legitimate question and honestly not trying to stir up anything, I just haven't been keeping up since the whole "incident": does AAtrek still work at TrekCore? Do they still publish anything by him, or does he still have any input on their operations? I’m pretty sure someone outed him there as well and he was dropped from the site, but I’m not 100% sure.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:54
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I’m pretty sure someone outed him there as well and he was dropped from the site, but I’m not 100% sure. Yeah, from what I remember, he was quietly dropped with no fanfare. As it should be.
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Jan 27, 2020 01:58
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e.martin posted:I am interested to see if on Picard there will any mention of the Dominion Wars or what transpired after the DS9 finale or if they will choose to ignore that entirely. I'm going to go with ignore - the first episode already got flak from critics for spending awhile doing scenes purely for exposition. I doubt they're going to mention anything else that hasn't made its way into the general culture beyond very unimportant easter eggs for fans.
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Jan 27, 2020 02:10
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HD DAD posted:Yeah, from what I remember, he was quietly dropped with no fanfare. As it should be. He chased me out of these threads years ago. I'm happy to be back and happy he's gone. I miss his gif website, since it was great for posting, but better to cut him completely out than to keep anything. MichiganCubbie fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 02:14
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piratepilates posted:A legitimate question and honestly not trying to stir up anything, I just haven't been keeping up since the whole "incident": does AAtrek still work at TrekCore? Do they still publish anything by him, or does he still have any input on their operations? He was kicked out and his name was deleted from every article he wrote.
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Jan 27, 2020 02:35
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Red letter has a Re:View of Picard and boy they don't like it.
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Jan 27, 2020 02:46
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To be fair they called virtually everything about the show. And they'd be the first to tell you it's not because they're geniuses, there's just not many plot hooks for prestige TV and Picard. The vineyard, Romulans, Borg, Data, called all of it months ago. Whatever they think about it I would imagine some of their disappointment is how predictable it is.
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Jan 27, 2020 02:58
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Thom12255 posted:I'm going to go with ignore - the first episode already got flak from critics for spending awhile doing scenes purely for exposition. I doubt they're going to mention anything else that hasn't made its way into the general culture beyond very unimportant easter eggs for fans.
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Jan 27, 2020 02:59
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Arglebargle III posted:To be fair they called virtually everything about the show. And they'd be the first to tell you it's not because they're geniuses, there's just not many plot hooks for prestige TV and Picard. The vineyard, Romulans, Borg, Data, called all of it months ago. Whatever they think about it I would imagine some of their disappointment is how predictable it is. It's really easy to call things that are in early trailers
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Jan 27, 2020 03:10
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Eh. I don't care to dig through their videos to prove they called it before the trailers but I think these things were easy to call. Where else are you going to pick up Picard after 20 years? Are they really gonna make a TNG spinoff with no Borg? Data died, right, let's do something with that. None of it is complicated.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:12
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Arglebargle III posted:Eh. I don't care to dig through their videos to prove they called it before the trailers but I think these things were easy to call. Where else are you going to pick up Picard after 20 years? Are they really gonna make a TNG spinoff with no Borg? Data died, right, let's do something with that. None of it is complicated. Considering how Voyager ended, the Borg Collective could be dead. Maybe there are former drone support groups everywhere?
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Jan 27, 2020 03:15
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Arglebargle III posted:To be fair they called virtually everything about the show. And they'd be the first to tell you it's not because they're geniuses, there's just not many plot hooks for prestige TV and Picard. The vineyard, Romulans, Borg, Data, called all of it months ago. Whatever they think about it I would imagine some of their disappointment is how predictable it is. Gosh, the show includes the stuff that was in the trailers, how horrible.  e: typo Powered Descent fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 03:17
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Eh, the review was basically: They continue the disappointing trend of the Federation being written as cynical 21st century analogues, now for goofs let's spitball the worst endings to the series arc as set up in the episode since at this point all you can do is speculate. Which is totally fair, but probably didn't need a 45 minute video on. I'm trying to keep my pessimism in check for now since there's only one episode.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:19
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Yeah true. I think the scene with Uhura and Space Lincoln was a good point of comparison.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:24
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Arglebargle III posted:To be fair they called virtually everything about the show. And they'd be the first to tell you it's not because they're geniuses, there's just not many plot hooks for prestige TV and Picard. The vineyard, Romulans, Borg, Data, called all of it months ago. Whatever they think about it I would imagine some of their disappointment is how predictable it is. They aren't really wrong about anything, they're just ignoring the good parts. I understand the pessimism given that it is pretty much the same people in charge of this and Discovery.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:24
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pyrotek posted:They aren't really wrong about anything, they're just ignoring the good parts. Yeah. Unfortunately, the good parts are the performances and general production and the iffy bits are the story and where it's headed. Like I said, classic car with a fresh coat of paint that may or may not be hiding a lot of rust. And it doesn't help when the dealer is a notorious crook.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:27
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This RLM video is shockingly bad even by their existing standards of having bad Star Trek takes
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Jan 27, 2020 03:29
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Seemlar posted:This RLM video is shockingly bad even by their existing standards of having bad Star Trek takes Please elaborate.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:29
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I was kind of waiting to see what Mike and Rich would have to say about this. It's pretty much what I expected from them. I think them picking on things like Picard not caring about Data and the Picard Day banner is just poking holes where none really exist. Picard totally has a close relationship with Data, it wasn't on display all the time, but he defended him so many times and said he was one of if not the finest Starfleet officer he'd ever serve with. It was there - Data's best friend was Geordi, yeah, but this show isn't called Geordi and there's nothing wrong with highlighting Data and Picard's relationship. Onto the banner - Picard is old and obviously has had a lot of time to reflect and ruminate and it is completely expected he would get more sentimental about things exactly like the banner. He thinks his spacefaring days are over so all he can do is look back - that changes how you see things. They make fun of the banner not being destroyed/lost because maybe Troi kept it safe like that's a great joke but...that sounds like exactly something she would actually do and it isn't some central mystery that needs to be explained. The banner survived and Picard put it in his room of mementos, so what? Their major complaint really, without which I feel like they'd never even bring up stuff like above, is the presentation of the Federation as essentially just modern day America and I can respect that a lot more because it's not just nitpicking over details which aren't even actually problems unless you need them to be, there's a vulnerability to that complaint. They want Star Trek to make them feel better, and not focus on how poo poo the world is now because hey - go anywhere else for that. They want a fictional universe where it all basically has worked out for humanity, to lull themselves to bed at night just envisioning that future - as simplistic and flawed as the execution may be, it's a nice idea. I'm kind of on their side with that one. I don't want to watch reporters push racist agendas on Star Trek. It doesn't reveal anything about society, Star Trek is a mainstream TV show. You're not going to get commentary and analysis which teaches you anything new about that sort of thing unless you have actually never been exposed to it before. All you really do by adapting the Federation to become a futuristic USA is lose the appeal of the utopian idea, and then you're just dealing with another middling space opera. It's only the first episode and I haven't made my mind up about this show yet, but yeah. Going the route of making the Federation as flawed as we are today was a misguided notion that shouldn't have been pursued. It isn't even like they were truly perfect, it's just that the problems were contained. There were corrupt admirals, there was section 31. They had war on DS9 without completely abandoning Starfleet's presentation. Now they go way too far with this stuff and until the original concept is lost and the connections become superficial, only surviving through franchise symbols which lose their potency every time you go to that well. large_gourd fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 03:43
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pyrotek posted:Please elaborate. So far it's been awful takes of "Picard never liked Data, why would he have any attachment to the person who gave their life for him?", endlessly arguing the realism of super nova mechanics, and an extended section where they show clips of the exposition scene with the reporter then somehow claim the exact opposite of what the exposition says happened. It's some dumb poo poo like "here in the JJ Abrams timeline the Federation are racist xenophobes, so when the Romulans asked for help they refused and that sickens me." They're so reaching for things to complain about they drop a smug "the Utopia Planitia Shipyards are in Mars orbit but these stupid people who know nothing about Star Trek put them on Mars surface" bit when... we've seen the orbital shipyards, and them being destroyed in the Synth attack. This is 15 minutes out of 45.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:44
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large_gourd posted:I was kind of waiting to see what Mike and Rich would have to say about this. It's pretty much what I expected from them. 
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Jan 27, 2020 03:45
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large_gourd posted:I'm kind of on their side with that one. I don't want to watch reporters push racist agendas on Star Trek. It doesn't reveal anything about society, Star Trek is a mainstream TV show. You're not going to get commentary and analysis which teaches you anything new about that sort of thing unless you have actually never been exposed to it before. All you really do by adapting the Federation to become a futuristic USA is lose the appeal of the utopian idea, and then you're just dealing with another middling space opera. Pre Borg and Dominion war federation was a post scarcity society that hadn't had any sort of war or disaster or really anything of scale for well over a hundred years. Whenever the last serious Klingon/Federation war (and not the 'mild' cold war). You take that society and throw it into the blender of multiple borg attacks and a very close run total war with the Dominion and it's not going to look like the same federation. I really do think that showing how the federation has drifted from the happy go lucky 'lets just have kids on starships!!!' to where it is today is compelling story. If the federation had just remained the same, a space utopia without any real known issues, would that have been realistic based on everything we saw in the last years of DS9/Voy/TNG? It's not that the federation is what we are today - from what we've seen it sure as hell looks better - but it IS definitely a more flawed version that what roddenbury first presented and I think that's interesting to see how it got that way, not to pretend that it was perfect and immutable. It's even more compelling when you throw in someone like Picard who obviously believes in that old version of the federation and is being reactionary to return it to its roots. e: this entire thing can be summed up as "q was right." When Q tossed the enterprise into borg space and very smartly said you have no idea what the borg is going to do to your precious federation like he wasn't wrong. Before them the federation was living as a happy little island paradise nation not realizing what threats and predators were still out there. CAN the federation still exist in galaxy with those type of threats is now an open question and I <3 that they are asking it and trying to explore it. adaz fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 03:49
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As to the notion of the Federation being modern-day America... when has it ever NOT been? In 1966 the Federation was in a cold war with another superpower which might turn hot at any moment. In 1991 the collapse of that rival meant it was suddenly the most powerful nation in the known galaxy. In 2001 the (proto-)Federation became all about Hard Men Making Hard Choices in the aftermath of an attack. And in 2020, it remains to be seen exactly what the Federation is, but there was another big attack that's now a few decades in its past which altered its trajectory in galactic history.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:52
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I do think it's a little weird that the Federation, or at least some of the people in it, would blame the Romulans for an attack carried out by a lab experiment on Earth Doesn't make a lot of sense for there to be that much xenophobia against the Romulans, but we also don't have the full picture yet I don't have a problem with them trying to make a 21st century analogy with the plot of the show, but it needs to be done properly.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:56
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Complaining about the banner is dumb stupid poo poo The EntD computer saw it once, you can immediately replicate it. It may not be the actual original but who loving cares Most importantly it made me smile when I saw it so it's already better than 99.9% of Disco
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Jan 27, 2020 03:56
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Pretty sure they just build starships on the ground in Iowa that you can motorcycle to while listening to the Beastie Boys so idk what this utopia planitia poo poo is
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Jan 27, 2020 03:59
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adaz posted:Pre Borg and Dominion war federation was a post scarcity society that hadn't had any sort of war or disaster or really anything of scale for well over a hundred years. Whenever the last serious Klingon/Federation war (and not the 'mild' cold war). You take that society and throw it into the blender of multiple borg attacks and a very close run total war with the Dominion and it's not going to look like the same federation. I don't think it really matters if it is realistic. Very little about Star Trek is particularly realistic if you drill down on individual aspects. So kind of putting that to side, yeah through the Borg and Dominion threats Starfleet was pushed into corners where they had to get more militaristic in order to secure their self-preservation. That's fine, but wouldn't it be something if instead of the message being that Starfleet is ultimately a naive failure and humanity never really got over its problems, that these wars they had no choice but to fight made them recommit to their ideals? Maybe they're worth suffering for, maybe survival isn't the only important thing - you could wring a lot of conflict between people who just want to live vs people who want to live well. Different ways to develop it. It's just unfortunate that the message of Star Trek has become that utopia isn't possible. large_gourd fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 03:59
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It would be cool if Star Trek was about the future.
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Jan 27, 2020 04:02
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Thom12255 posted:I'm going to go with ignore - the first episode already got flak from critics for spending awhile doing scenes purely for exposition. I doubt they're going to mention anything else that hasn't made its way into the general culture beyond very unimportant easter eggs for fans. What is the appeal of Picard other than to Star Trek fan boys? Thats my take anyways. Who is going to start watching this show if they never at least saw TNG? Theres a reason its streaming only and not on the network. The more fan service the better in my opinion. They have done a lot of "lets try to make Trek interesting for non Star Trek fans" I think its more than time for a "fanboy series" and what better way to do that than with Picard.
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Jan 27, 2020 04:03
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large_gourd posted:I don't think it really matters if it is realistic. Very little about Star Trek is particularly realistic if you drill down on individual aspects. I don't think its that utopia isn't possible it is the struggle to maintain and preserve utopia. Think of all the stuff Sisko went through when Earth was first dealing with the changeling threat. Ultimately, the good guys prevailed and there wasn't a coup. Starfleets always had flaws and the federation has flaws what consistently sets it apart from other sci-fi is the institutions ultimately move away from those flaws and adjust. There's always a solid corp of people who as you said accept the suffering and problems and survival isnt the only thing (someone early in thread mentioned it - VOY was good at showing this). So far nothing I've seen in Picard has conflicted with that general star treky-ness. Arglebargle III posted:It would be cool if Star Trek was about the future. I never understood this. Star Trek has _always_ been intensely rooted in present day. Arguably even more so in ToS than now. I personally do wish it had less of a western (as in a more diverse cast/writing experience) just so it'd get a little more flavor than USian but still, Star Trek has basically always been allegorical to present day stuff.
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Jan 27, 2020 04:05
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