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OwlFancier posted:He couldn't purge them, they're elected, and neither can any of the current leadership candidates, but open selections would be a good thing for ensuring the left keep a presence in the party and, potentially, a vehicle to start getting rid of the lovely ones. Could have pulled a Johnson and kicked them out of the party. Then obviously new candidates would have been selected for the next election. Painful as gently caress in the short term but we'd probably be no worse off than we are now and potentially much better.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:47
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RLB and Butler are seeming like a solid combo right now, if they're willing to call this poo poo out then they're probably looking to deal with it as a priority.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:53
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sebzilla posted:Could have pulled a Johnson and kicked them out of the party. Then obviously new candidates would have been selected for the next election. Painful as gently caress in the short term but we'd probably be no worse off than we are now and potentially much better. in hindsight, sure, but no-one was expecting us to get wiped out like we did the plan was clearly to deal with the melts and Blairites after an election win when Corbyn would have a clear popular mandate for party reform
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Jan 27, 2020 18:55
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sebzilla posted:Could have pulled a Johnson and kicked them out of the party. Then obviously new candidates would have been selected for the next election. Painful as gently caress in the short term but we'd probably be no worse off than we are now and potentially much better. Not entirely sure he could have done that actually, not sure that's a power the leader has. Also not entirely sure he wouldn't be immediately (and justifiably) challenged and replaced if he tried, because that would 100% be worse for labour in the immediate term than the actual infighting was. Like labour would not function as a party if he expelled every MP that turned against him. And there's also no indication that they wouldn't be replaced by just as lovely replacements because the CLPs are still full of blairites. The change needs to be root and branch, it's not something the central office can fix, other than giving the membership more tools.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:55
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^^^Members can be suspended for bringing the party into disrepute. You could take out dozens of MPs for the public articles and interviews they gave against the party.Julio Cruz posted:in hindsight, sure, but no-one was expecting us to get wiped out like we did The 2019 strategy was aiming to make gains in harder seats to counterbalance all the lovely MPs the party couldn't get rid of or risk losing otherwise. If the worst had already been cleared out then such aggressive risky strategies either wouldn't have been necessary or had been less bad as the reality as the candidates would have actually been pulling together. namesake fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 19:13
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namesake posted:The 2019 strategy was aiming to make gains in harder seats to counterbalance all the lovely MPs the party couldn't get rid of or risk losing otherwise. If the worst had already been cleared out then such aggressive risky strategies either wouldn't have been necessary or had been less bad as the reality as the candidates would have actually been pulling together. if the worst had already been cleared out then they'd be actively campaigning against Labour (and no, making occasional comments about how they'd "stand up to the leadership" is not the same thing) like remember when Chuka cost Labour Two Cities? now imagine that happening in ~30-40 constituencies nationwide
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Jan 27, 2020 19:19
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namesake posted:^^^Members can be suspended for bringing the party into disrepute. You could take out dozens of MPs for the public articles and interviews they gave against the party. The leader's office doesn't oversee suspensions that I am aware of, that would be an NEC effort.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:19
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think the prequels are as good as the originals (which is probably in no small part because I just like that era of cinema a lot more than subsequent ones) but you can still look at them and read things into them. I think they're probably more interesting than the originals if you want to do that because they're so... weird. Like they're so clearly a work of mostly one guy who was really up his own arse but that makes them really interesting to read, they're like a psychological profile of george lucas circa early 2000s. He's going for something, possibly many things, but the films are actually kinda hard to read, possibly because he's trying many things that only really make sense to him lol. I think the prequels broke people's brains with so many obvious surface level examples of incompetence, the writing, the acting etc, that people somehow believe that everything about them is some kind of mistake up to and including the entire point of the story.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:40
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:...which is doubly weird because Mara Jade is Thrawn's hitman Mara Jade isn't Thrawn's hitman, she was the Emperor's. Thrawn's hitmen are a race of alien pygmies with incredible hunting skills that got hit by a spaceship crash during the Clone Wars and who the Empire has been pretending to help for decades while keeping them locked in debt and secretly perpetuating the poisoning of their planet.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:41
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A historical note: mandatory reselection was Labour party policy from 1981 to 1993. It was widely hoped/feared beforehand that it would solidify the left's control of the party forever. In practice this was not the case and most MPs on the Labour right tended to win their reselection battles. Despite these rules the balance of power in the party steadily drifted toward the soft left of Kinnock, not Benn. The rest you know. Of course, this was not under OMOV but in the General Management Committee system of the time, where the key battle was over delegate selection and ensuring that delegates actually turned up to vote the intended way. A contemporary system would behave differently, but it is still hardly clear that it would conform to archetypically left-wing expectations of acclamation from the shadows. This is not an argument for or against mandatory reselection as such, but rather that arguments have to fill in the details on how they achieve their predicted outcomes since we have ample actually-existing history where it patently did not.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:43
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https://twitter.com/rivkahbrown/status/1221567635181264896?s=21 Good (awful) thread.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:44
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He also inherits the remaining years of anyone who dies of unnatural causes in cornwall. Hence he shall be the eternal god king of the isles as long as there are humans alive and killing each other in cornwall.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:51
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 fully sick
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Jan 27, 2020 19:55
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/rivkahbrown/status/1221567635181264896?s=21 Im pretty sure this is racist
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Jan 27, 2020 20:13
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Yes, hereditary monarchy is racist.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:27
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Julio Cruz posted:in hindsight, sure, but no-one was expecting us to get wiped out like we did Booting MPs out of the party after you've just won an election would have been tricky, and decreased whatever majority we had. The Tories did ok by doing it the other way around and making it very clear that if you didn't toe the party line you're out.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:54
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Because the tories were chasing the brexit vote and made that single issue, also the tories don't work the way the labour party works. Also the only reason it worked for johnson was because he called and won an election, he lost nearly every vote before that because he decimated his party.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:56
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Losing those votes helped frame Parliament as obstructionist, chaotic, anti-democratic, and confusing/annoying.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:20
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Which works when you've got the press backing you on that, it doesn't work if the reason you're trying to get elected is to do more obstruction of that agenda.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:23
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So went to therapy for the first time in a while today. You'd think it would make you feel better, instead I just full tired. Trying to keep going to meetings and job apping. I can understand the disengagement with the party atm, but I also think that there does need to be a focus on doing as much as you think is possible to keep Labour at least listing leftward.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:31
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OwlFancier posted:He couldn't purge them, they're elected, and neither can any of the current leadership candidates, but open selections would be a good thing for ensuring the left keep a presence in the party and, potentially, a vehicle to start getting rid of the lovely ones. It's fun bouncing around pages rapidly and not knowing whether a post like this is talking about Corbyn or Palpatine or what 
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Jan 27, 2020 21:53
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I would probably vote for a leader that promised to shoot lightning at the other members of parliament. Therapy can be lovely and wearying yeah, it's a lot of emotional labour. I hope you manage OK Josef.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:55
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Major alt history obviously but if the right wing of Labour had been driven out before 2017 GE even if they'd managed to do a much larger CUK they would have been smashed and 2019 would have gone better.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:56
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namesake posted:Major alt history obviously but if the right wing of Labour had been driven out before 2017 GE even if they'd managed to do a much larger CUK they would have been smashed and 2019 would have gone better. if Labour had been smashed in 2017 I highly doubt Corbyn would have been around to fight the 2019 campaign
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Jan 27, 2020 21:58
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I don't think that's true given that lib dem/cuk splitting cost labour a lot of seats. To say nothing of the fact that labour would have had even less control of when an election would happen than they did.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:58
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OwlFancier posted:I would probably vote for a leader that promised to shoot lightning at the other members of parliament. Same here. Thank you Owl. What do you all do to not dislike yourselves? Or to feel better after a bad day?
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Jan 27, 2020 22:25
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Josef bugman posted:So went to therapy for the first time in a while today. I wouldn't expect it to make you feel better immediately. I've been going consistently for nearly 6 months and I still come out pensive and tired. Josef bugman posted:Same here. Thank you Owl. Mostly I have an awful lot of distractions during the day and really struggle to sleep. Which I appreciate is not entirely helpful. Reminding myself of the things I've actually done during the day also helps.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:39
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Julio Cruz posted:if Labour had been smashed in 2017 I highly doubt Corbyn would have been around to fight the 2019 campaign OwlFancier posted:I don't think that's true given that lib dem/cuk splitting cost labour a lot of seats. I'm suggesting that the 2017 GE result would have steamrolled this hypothetical group as we'd get what actually happened without all the preceeding leaks and backstabbing and have candidates actually supporting Corbyn?
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Jan 27, 2020 22:42
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sebzilla posted:Elan Sleazebaggano Colombian Grebe  sebzilla posted:Corbs really should have gone Full Purge. RLB is already talking about top down enforcement of mandatory reselection so 
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Jan 27, 2020 22:52
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namesake posted:I'm suggesting that the 2017 GE result would have steamrolled this hypothetical group as we'd get what actually happened without all the preceeding leaks and backstabbing and have candidates actually supporting Corbyn? the 2017 result as it actually happened and the hypothetical 2017 result after Corbyn ejects the splitters and the melts are very different things
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Jan 27, 2020 22:55
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OwlFancier posted:Huh, I vaguely remember being taught that by someone that that explains why.  
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Jan 27, 2020 23:24
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https://twitter.com/sarah_ox_laugh/status/1221508847359156225 This whole thread is just :chefskiss:
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Jan 27, 2020 23:39
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lol, I've seen a bunch of non-parody people on Facebook acting like they're MLK/Gandhi because they're going to demand 50 1p coins instead should the foul Brexit 50p rise from the till box stinking of brimstone.
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Jan 27, 2020 23:43
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getting angry about coins is some peak boomer poo poo because everyone under 40 just pays for everything by card
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Jan 27, 2020 23:49
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Julio Cruz posted:if Labour had been smashed in 2017 I highly doubt Corbyn would have been around to fight the 2019 campaign It's possible he would have been, the 2017 result was a luminous shock upset to everyone but absent it you wouldn't necessarily have just handed the metaphorical car keys back to the drunk blairites.
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Jan 27, 2020 23:59
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I didn't see these people kicking up a fuss when Winston Churchill was put on the money 
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Jan 28, 2020 00:00
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Julio Cruz posted:getting angry about coins is some peak boomer poo poo because everyone under 40 just pays for everything by card Also just listened to the Star Wars episode, good praxis friends. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 00:04
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Having just done my taxes in one night by basically just adding up my card statements, I'm convinced that the gammon generation's insistence on paying for everything in cash is so that they can cheat on their taxes as well as their wives. It 100% is.
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Jan 28, 2020 00:19
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Guavanaut posted:I took some photos of some old books that belonged to my grandad, before the tyranny of the IBM type writer and electronic computation, if anyone cares about Britain's weird pseudodecimal little dots and even weirder predecimal currency: Until I was 11 years old, we did money in £sd, weight in tons (not tonnes), cwt, stones, lbs (troy and avoirdupois - which weighs more, a pound of gold or a pound of feathers? Feathers obviously), ozs; liquid in fl.oz, gills, pints, quarts, gallons. They'd only just stopped doing rods, poles and perches when I was at junior school. (Though chains are still in use in for example railway, and furlongs in horse racing and I'm not sure if fathoms are still in use for divers). I don't remember anyone using leagues though there was a popular kids' story involving seven-league boots. And we did use that dot in the middle for decimal points. Interestingly, when I lived in Germany in the mid 70s, in the markets they used 'pfund' for the veg not kilos. At school in - actually it was 1969 not 1971 we got the sets - just remember which school I was at- we all got given a souvenir set of decimal money - 18p altogether (50p hadn't been invented then). My sister and I took ours on holiday and spent them. In modern money that's worth about 25p. It costs over £4 to buy a set now. I guess we did the best thing  Ed: pre-decimal money is when I learned that even though addition was commutative, other functions weren't. I remember saying to my dad when I was about 4 or 5 that 3/6 (3 shillings and 6pence) was the same as 6/3 (six shillings and thruppence) and he explained that it wasn't. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 00:20
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Sanitary Naptime posted:Colombian Grebe Bobby Deluxe posted:Having just done my taxes in one night by basically just adding up my card statements
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