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Nah, this episode established coffee exists in this universe, so we’re fine.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:29
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Jeffe posted:We're all loving the looms idea I definitely am not loving the looms idea. Jeffe posted:I get the feeling there was some major war pre-Hartnell, just a feeling since the guy was proud enough to want to keep his medal. The only one mentioned ever was against the vampires, and I can't remember if that's a book-only thing. The Time Lords war against the Vampires is from State of Decay.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:33
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Jeffe posted:We're all loving the looms idea Looms can burn in hell with the Doctor is half-human and all that Ulysses garbage 
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Jan 27, 2020 23:13
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marktheando posted:I definitely am not loving the looms idea. Honestly I don't care about them, I just always loved the idea of the "Other" itself, especially since it was in relation to McCoy's Doctor, who was the greatest one until Smith...fight me. On the surface requires the looms, but there could certainly be other explanations to invent. All three (The Doc, Omega, and R-Dawg) could not remember who they were before, anything really. I should really stop polluting my mind with ideas from the two book ranges though, something new could always be better, and I think in the end they tried to say the Time Lords (or at least the Doctors) were really sentient crystals modeled after the Doctor and stuff, so whatever, that all got pretty nutty, and I doubt Chibnall would be aware of all that. Or, we could debate where Ruth fits in with the events of The Infinity Doctors 
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Jan 27, 2020 23:18
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Jeffe posted:Honestly I don't care about them, I just always loved the idea of the "Other" itself, especially since it was in relation to McCoy's Doctor, who was the greatest one until Smith...fight me. On the surface requires the looms, but there could certainly be other explanations to invent. All three (The Doc, Omega, and R-Dawg) could not remember who they were before, anything really. Well as well as the "Timelords don't gently caress" aspect of looms, I strongly dislike the idea that the Doctor is somehow special or different from other Time Lords from birth so this better not go anywhere close to The Other. The Doctor is special because of their actions and choices, not because of some special destiny or being the reincarnation of some dude or whatever.
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Jan 27, 2020 23:39
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I unironically like the Looms. Never got why people didn't like them. All Marc Platt's Gallifreyian history rules. Oh, and timelords do gently caress. They just can't carry pregnancies to term, so they use the Looms as a substitute. Though, of course, the second book to use the Looms in any capacity actually solved this problem, rendering Looms redundant so... Jeffe posted:I think in the end they tried to say the Time Lords (or at least the Doctors) were really sentient crystals modeled after the Doctor and stuff, so whatever, that all got pretty nutty, and I doubt Chibnall would be aware of all that. Sometimes Never... was a pretty big book at the time. He'd probably have read it. That said, The Gallifrey Chronicles undoes that explanation (which exists entirely to fix up a plot hole) about five books later. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 00:36
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I really, really missed going  at Doctor Who, and the combination of the new Master and Jack and a second Doctor has me just  as all hell.This is all the stuff I missed last season when there was no connection to any plot other than what was happening.
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Jan 28, 2020 01:44
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I mean, if you really want to see the Looms on screen, they were right there at the heart of Kryptonian society in Man of Steel. For all that film's faults, I think it had the best version of Gallifrey.
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Jan 28, 2020 02:45
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Wow that was a heckuv an episode. I wasn't expecting any of that. I also wasn't expecting how much love the Alternate Doctor would be getting and the amount of hate Jodie would be getting compared to her on the official Doctor Who FB page, but then again. It's fuckin Faacebook
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Jan 28, 2020 03:18
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Well, the risk-taking plots are back! One alternative option nobody has mentioned yet: the Doctor lies. Why couldn't Doctor Ruth be a potential future Doctor (a la Orphan 55's alternative time) who remembers being Thirteen, and remembers everything going wrong, and wants to try to prevent her own future from occurring? That would explain some strange coincidences (like hiding in the precise time period and area where Thirteen operates), and make the "what's that" with the sonic screwdriver a deliberate deception. Even the buried TARDIS is shades of the Hand of Omega. And given how unusual the "two of the same Time Lord in the same place" is according to Gat, it seems interesting that Doctor Ruth knows precisely what the risks are. Her moves seem very new show era, too. I do wonder if whatever is coming for the Doctor will turn out to be new or old. Omega would be an interesting possibility--maybe the alt-future Gallifrey is one where Omega escaped, went back in time, and restarted society without Rassilon--and the Black Guardian has the juice to do this level of chaos upon space-time. Gat's uniform looks like streamlined Time Lord ceremonial robes, so that's interesting. And the Kasavin may end up factoring in to all of this. Jack is definitely going to be back.
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Jan 28, 2020 03:25
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Open Source Idiom posted:That said, The Gallifrey Chronicles undoes that explanation (which exists entirely to fix up a plot hole) about five books later. Ooh, I should really finally read that, I grabbed it for Kindle at some point and forgot, it's been so long since I read the books but I guess I'd remember most of the major plot threads throughout the range. Did anyone ever finally get it out of Mad Larry who the Enemy were supposed to be? Regarding the episode, I rewatched the crucial parts of it today - Ruth really nailed being The Doctor! Kind of more of a classic one, which is surely intentional. Ok, it's weird to give a fictional character kudos for being another fictional character, as if "Ruth" was the actress, but you get my point.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:01
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Interestingly, this felt like a BF or New Adventures/EDA plot to me.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:07
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Jeffe posted:Did anyone ever finally get it out of Mad Larry who the Enemy were supposed to be? Sorta. Miles wanted to release a book that contained the revelation, but kinda like how Clue was originally released, they'd actually be twelve(!) different versions of the revelation in twelve different releases of the otherwise same book. Fandom would have to choose which one they preferred, or accept that all of them happened. He's only revealed one version of the prospective reveals, and it was time-active space whales, presumably the same ones from the then-unreleased Song Of The Megaptera by Pat Mills. Weird, but he made Krotons work so...
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Jan 28, 2020 04:09
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Narsham posted:Well, the risk-taking plots are back! I think you underestimate just how hard the Doctor breaks all the rules of time travel into pieces and then stomps on the bits until they're ground to powder. Gat's turning up her nose at "It's an ABOMINATION" kind of made me go, aw, that's cute. You must be new to the villain thing on this show.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:18
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marktheando posted:I strongly dislike the idea that the Doctor is somehow special or different from other Time Lords from birth so this better not go anywhere close to The Other. The Doctor is special because of their actions and choices, not because of some special destiny or being the reincarnation of some dude or whatever. Absolutely, "they're super special by default/divine right/bloodline" bullshit is one of my least favorite things in almost any media. The fact that Hartnell's 1st Doctor went from being a superior rear end in a top hat who considered anybody other than himself and Susan as inferior and then thanks to Ian and Barbara (and Steven and Vicki and Polly and Ben and hell even Dodo) softened and became a better person is one of my absolute favorite things about the character. The Doctor going from the detached scientist who kidnapped two humans to teach them a lesson to gaining a moral compass and becoming an active force for good is an absolutely wonderful career development.
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Jan 28, 2020 04:51
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I feel like I just let out a big sigh, finally a really drat good fun episode.
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Jan 28, 2020 06:01
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I was impressed at how good Jack looked. gently caress it, bring him back as a regular companion for a series.
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Jan 28, 2020 06:07
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Now that I’ve finally seen the episode, I’m going to bet on the theory that Ruth is a Doc between 2 and 3. The way she’s hiding on Earth, how she describes the job she has but didn’t sign up for, how the Time Lords have put a bounty out for her capture. Maybe the 2nd Doc was on a mission as an agent for the Time Lords, he’s killed, then the newly regenerated RuthDoc decides to use this opportunity to try and hide from them. Then, after whatever is going to happen this season happens, the Time Lords wipe the Doctor’s memory and dump 3 and his TARDIS in a field.
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Jan 28, 2020 06:44
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I guess it would ruin the surprise and mystery if 13 just asked RuthDoc who the last regeneration was that she could remember.
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Jan 28, 2020 07:13
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I dunno if the show's gonna have an explanation that reaches back into the classic series. Seems a little too complicated. That said, they brought back Jack and he's not been around since, what, 2010? Though he was also a)part of the new show and b) a lead on a relatively popular spinoff. But yeah, anything more complicated than "before the classic series" is, I reckon, out of the ballpark. So it's probably not a Season 6b plot.
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Jan 28, 2020 07:32
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Just watched this. Ruth Doctor rules.
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Jan 28, 2020 10:26
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Shades of 6's color scheme in her outfit too (both what he wore and what he WANTED to wear) which is very nice considering Chibnall wasn't a fan of his run at the time it aired 
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Jan 28, 2020 10:32
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Chibnalls said it's not parallel universe or anything https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/jo-martin-first-black-doctor-21373790 Also mentions we won't see Jack again this year.
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Jan 28, 2020 11:23
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mehall posted:Chibnalls said it's not parallel universe or anything The Jack thing is kinda weird since this episode, to me at least, seemed to setup or hint at a big Journey’s End type season finale with a bunch of recurring folks showing up.
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Jan 28, 2020 11:35
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Barrowman was recently hospitalized. That might be part of it?
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Jan 28, 2020 11:42
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Interview with Barrowman about his appearance https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=john-barrowman-captain-jack-is-back-series-12#_
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Jan 28, 2020 11:58
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He called RTD who got all excited about Captain Jack being back too 
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Jan 28, 2020 13:00
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feeling ultra dumb because I’m only just now getting the humor in the Doctor’s cover identity as a tour guide
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Jan 28, 2020 13:03
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Jerusalem posted:He called RTD who got all excited about Captain Jack being back too I'm not the biggest NuWho fan around these here parts, but I'll always say that Barrowman as Captain Jack was really great. It's an absolute pity we didn't get to see more of Jack with Nine and Rose, I thought they had really good chemistry as a team.
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Jan 28, 2020 13:04
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The Doctor landing the TARDIS in Jack's ship and letting him in as he and Rose dance, because he's recognized that Jack has a streak of nobility beneath the brash exterior, was an absolutely fantastic ending to The Empty Child/Doctor Dances two-parter. Jack: Much bigger on the inside. Doctor: You'd better be. 
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Jan 28, 2020 13:12
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I love Jack so much that I watched every goddamn minute of every season of Torchwood.
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Jan 28, 2020 14:18
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The_Doctor posted:Interestingly, this felt like a BF or New Adventures/EDA plot to me. A black, female Doctor, you say?
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Jan 28, 2020 14:26
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CommonShore posted:I love Jack so much that I watched every goddamn minute of every season of Torchwood. Same. 
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Jan 28, 2020 15:04
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Now that I’ve finally seen the episode, I’m going to bet on the theory that Ruth is a Doc between 2 and 3. The way she’s hiding on Earth, how she describes the job she has but didn’t sign up for, how the Time Lords have put a bounty out for her capture. Maybe the 2nd Doc was on a mission as an agent for the Time Lords, he’s killed, then the newly regenerated RuthDoc decides to use this opportunity to try and hide from them. Then, after whatever is going to happen this season happens, the Time Lords wipe the Doctor’s memory and dump 3 and his TARDIS in a field. If she's after 2 she should know what a sonic screwdriver is.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:15
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I don't Thirteen ever used the name "Sonic Screwdriver" though, and in Two's time, the sonic was used only as a screwdriver.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:51
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mehall posted:Chibnalls said it's not parallel universe or anything I saw this and just sort of thought that when it comes to mystery boxes or whatever, not sure what you can take at face value. Sure, not a parallel universe but.. a parallel doctor? The newest theory I've seen is it's a set of regenerations before the 1st doctor which is kind of a thing.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:23
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Harlock posted:I saw this and just sort of thought that when it comes to mystery boxes or whatever, not sure what you can take at face value. Sure, not a parallel universe but.. a parallel doctor? What if the Doctor was somehow a closed loop of maybe dozens of sets of regenerations. Go far enough back and you run into Whittaker, Capaldi, etc again. 
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Jan 28, 2020 16:26
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Harlock posted:I saw this and just sort of thought that when it comes to mystery boxes or whatever, not sure what you can take at face value. Sure, not a parallel universe but.. a parallel doctor? I don't like that theory, because the only reason to bury the TARDIS is if it's stuck as a police box, which means it's post Hartnell. If the chameleon circuit is working then you wouldn't need to hide it. As Nine said to Rose in the hologram message, just leave it on a street corner, everyone will ignore it.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:26
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I'm sure the explanation is going to piss everyone off.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:35
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mehall posted:Chibnalls said it's not parallel universe or anything Oh so this episode was a fluke and this guy really is bad at this.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:14
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