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AbstractNapper posted:An inexperienced game modder (and I mean literally having no experience whatsoever with mapping, lighting, texturing, rendering etc), could make a good looking map (or maybe impressive for the time) within a few weeks, less than a month, with tools available at the start of 2000 (I'm thinking Max Payne games here). I'm not trying to say the game is good, at all. Just trying to give some credit where it's due. They've developed some really nice art assets, I think. They aren't the only space game that does...ED looks pretty good, and hell, even X: Rebirth looks nice enough. Just saying, in this one aspect, texturing and modeling, they did alright.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:51
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Antigravitas posted:I'm going to Äkshually you here. Doing this is actually not a bad idea because opening individual files is much, much slower than just doing skips and reads on a gigantic one. If you do the layout of your gigantic file right you can read tiny files really fast. So in dev you can have your hideous tree of shader fragments and on release it's just a giant ball of tar. Most games therefore use a virtual file system on top of one or many packed blobs of data. I've got a question for you if it's ok to ask, since you know more about this than I do. If you do things this way, how do you handle the IO of generating parallel file handles through a the single file handle for the main pak? The texture loading was incredibly slow, and I'm using hardware that didn't exist 2 years ago, so it should crush their ancient poo poo code. The drive light was pegged constantly, even on an SSD. "It's not optimized yet" isn't even on the table as an explanation, because loading such a small area as a wankpod should have been done in the blink of an eye even before optimization. Is the pak encrypted/decrypted on the fly or something equally boneheaded? Scruffpuff fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 15:59
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Zzr posted:StarOS when ? Wasn't it B'tak or some other whale who thought out-of-game chat applications were like cheating and wanted Star Citizen to prevent all such applications from running at the same time? A custom OS would fit well with such insanity.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:03
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Gothsheep posted:I'm not trying to say the game is good, at all. Just trying to give some credit where it's due. They've developed some really nice art assets, I think. They aren't the only space game that does...ED looks pretty good, and hell, even X: Rebirth looks nice enough. Just saying, in this one aspect, texturing and modeling, they did alright. I won't disagree that some of the art assets look good, but my personal philosophy is that it's more impressive to make a great-looking game using texturing and lighting tricks that make things look incredible, than brute-forcing a million polygons and recreating reality in the PC and winding up looking exactly the same.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:04
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Bofast posted:Wasn't it B'tak or some other whale who thought out-of-game chat applications were like cheating and wanted Star Citizen to prevent all such applications from running at the same time? A custom OS would fit well with such insanity. This might not be a bad idea. To play the game you need to buy the StarBox™ which is custom-built to run Star Citizen badly. It includes a HOTAS, FOIP, and is marked up 5000% and made entirely of fans.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:12
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theaters of war is the most generic sounding poo poo lol
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Jan 28, 2020 16:17
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Gothsheep posted:I mean, maybe my uncultured eyes can't actually discern real quality, but I think the game looks pretty good when it isn't breaking. Which I know sounds like a backhanded compliment, but I actually do mean it. When you just look at 'the game' and not some screenshot showing it breaking, it looks quite nice, I think. That is probably why the subreddit has had so many accounts posting screenshots. SC looks a lot better when you're just looking at a ship or the horizon than when it tries to animate a clipping commando or one tries to actually find proper gameplay.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:21
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TheAgent posted:theaters of war is the most generic sounding poo poo lol Despite the reviews, it was not that bad really: https://store.steampowered.com/app/46290/Theatre_of_War/
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Jan 28, 2020 16:40
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Gothsheep posted:I'm not trying to say the game is good, at all. Just trying to give some credit where it's due. They've developed some really nice art assets, I think. They aren't the only space game that does...ED looks pretty good, and hell, even X: Rebirth looks nice enough. Just saying, in this one aspect, texturing and modeling, they did alright. Agreed, there are talented art designers on staff, just wish it was all better managed.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:41
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Scruffpuff posted:I've got a question for you if it's ok to ask, since you know more about this than I do. If you do things this way, how do you handle the IO of generating parallel file handles through a the single file handle for the main pak? The texture loading was incredibly slow, and I'm using hardware that didn't exist 2 years ago, so it should crush their ancient poo poo code. The drive light was pegged constantly, even on an SSD. "It's not optimized yet" isn't even on the table as an explanation, because loading such a small area as a wankpod should have been done in the blink of an eye even before optimization. Is the pak encrypted/decrypted on the fly or something equally boneheaded? Reading from several threads is perfectly fine. I don't know how Windows behaves by default, but you can absolutely read with multiple threads or even multiple processes from the same file without locking it for others. Each gets its own handle. It's when you are trying to write from multiple threads that things get hilariously brain-breakingly complicated, but games don't have to do that. I don't know what SC is (not) doing, but if you want to know the most dead-simple implementation: Concatenate all your files into one blob when you release, ship along with a txt file giving filename, start offset, end offset. That is literally what some games use, just glue all files together and note down where the seams are.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:53
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monkeytek posted:Agreed, there are talented art designers on staff, just wish it was all better managed. Better managed? Hell Stevie Wonder could look at the Gantt chart and realized it is hosed.
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Jan 28, 2020 16:57
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C-Bangin' it 
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This... HERESY! Why is this getting more focus than say...space combat, or space related activities like salvage, exploration/ewar, repair, tourism/charters as those have been pushed multiple times would it not be wiser to dedicate yourselves to finishing a viable working feature that you have thus far failed utterly to complete..then work on this heresy...or does the feature creep aid your development timeline?More prime salt. ROWR! What is CIG going to do differently to ensure Theatres of War doesn't become the buggy mess that Star Marine has slowly become over time? Why spend time and resources, even if it is what you called it relatively little resources, on a third game mode when people on spectrum have been wanting more PU content since forever.And, uh... Some people seem kind of unclear what a battle royale is. If this "Battle Royal" mode proves succesfull and people like to see it improved, will it be able to be monetized like other Battle Royal games to provide more income to the main concept of Star Citizen?
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Jan 28, 2020 17:00
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I am still 100% certain that most people who "enjoy" star citizen haven't actually played another video game since 1996
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Jan 28, 2020 17:04
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Oh, and because I was poking around the Sqlite site I noticed they updated their "we are faster reading from our single file than reading individual files from disk" site: https://www.sqlite.org/fasterthanfs.html Those graphs are relatively close to my experience. Reading lots of small files is really slow everywhere, but especially so on Windows. Pretty much anything the sqlite guys say applies to games using large packed files, except that absolutely nobody sane does parallel writing to those files because it's so easy to screw up for no gain.
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Jan 28, 2020 17:07
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Holy fuckin poo poo have you guys seen this?!?!?! https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/euubki/reload_animation/ Can't say I've ever seen such a fidelitous reload animation in my entire existence on this planet. A reload animation. Guys. A 90+ comment thread on a reload animation. Guys. Help.
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Jan 28, 2020 17:09
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IcarusUpHigh posted:Holy fuckin poo poo have you guys seen this?!?!?! I bet that wrist animation came from the dev who fell from the bike.
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Jan 28, 2020 17:11
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You know, I think SC so slow because they have just overengineered something that was already done in a sane fashion elsewhere. Actually, SC is the way it is for the same reason. It's universal.
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Jan 28, 2020 17:11
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IcarusUpHigh posted:Holy fuckin poo poo have you guys seen this?!?!?! (it doesn't even really look that good...)
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Jan 28, 2020 17:11
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Taking into account CI~G's intended audience that might be the first reload animation they have seen since the nineties.
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Jan 28, 2020 17:12
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So... Here's a fresh new take on Theaters of War. Emphasis and [brackets] mine. Actually, this [creating a third game mode with so much else on CIG's plate] is expected, for the same reason we're getting 'Prison' gameplay: It requires little / no coding.We've been told that Prisons requires no custom code at all - it's purely new Art assets and designers re-using / repurposing existing functionality. TOW appears to be the same - it's a 'custom' PG World level (actually using PG Planets) using standard PU ships and weapons. They've taken the two 'teams' from Star Marine, and added some additional UI (for progressive spawn unlocks and showing progress, I think), but other than 'unlocking' the next stage I don't think there is any additional Code required? In return, they get a new 'combined arms' Arena mode, and start getting a lot more data on combined-arms balance (something not available from AC/SM, and too sparse from the PU) and it makes it much easier / quicker to test (in a semi-consistent and measurable way) e.g. network changes when someone starts working on it As such, looking at it as a combination of test-rig and pacifier (for people complaining about lack of functionality), it does make sense. It also means that it may end up 'unsupported' for long periods once CIG no longer need it for testing, and people have more things to do in the PU.... but they'll almost certainly spruce it up for launch (along with AC and SM) You heard it here, folks: games aren't hard to make because you don't need to code anything to make them! And yes, they'll abandon it, and it will be a good thing! Oh and AC and SM DEFINITELY aren't abandoned, they just got all they needed out of them and will "spruce them up for launch"! The elves in my head told me so! This might be one of the dumbest comments I've seen on /r/sc. I don't know a thing about game development and even I know that's all completely wrong. Inacio posted:(it doesn't even really look that good...) I'm the mag clipping through the gun as it flies off to the side at a billion miles an hour Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 17:16
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sean tracy said they had been working on it for like 9 months, but it didn't require "that much effort" I don't even know what that means
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Jan 28, 2020 17:39
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besides you want to see how AWS begins to poo poo the bed trying to do low latency FPS combat, well, enjoy you dumb fuckers
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Jan 28, 2020 17:40
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IcarusUpHigh posted:Holy fuckin poo poo have you guys seen this?!?!?! I mean, it's a fine animation. I've been playing through the COD campaigns and I'd say they have equivalent animation fidelituh since Black Ops II or so. I'm pretty sure anyone making a "AAA" shooter in the last 5 years has had similar animations.
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Jan 28, 2020 17:52
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TheAgent posted:sean tracy said they had been working on it for like 9 months, but it didn't require "that much effort" TBF given SC development time that is hardly a drop in the bucket! As to what it means, well, I'm sure you can just check the roadmap.
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Jan 28, 2020 17:53
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cool, the Studio Manager in Austin is barely 30, Eric Kieron Davis is now the Chief People Officer (early days lol) instead of Studio Manager of LA (which there currently is none), more people are gone just lol that the majority of their artwork is outsourced to various companies/individuals and that the vast, vast majority of current Cloud Imperium employees are managers and executives they are desperately trying to staff up and are failing miserably. at this rate, even if they were to fill every essential position within the next month, you are looking at six to twelve months before any real work could begin the reason poo poo ain't getting done is because they don't have anyone there to actually do all the loving work, just endless loving managers going to meetings over and over and over and over and over and over and over
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Jan 28, 2020 18:03
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Rotten Red Rod posted:So... Here's a fresh new take on Theaters of War. Emphasis and [brackets] mine. Just like the SPACE DOOR was just a garage door opener, some plywood, a little paint, and some volunteer work over the weekend to install.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:05
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Prisons requiring no custom code sounds about right, I mean doors everywhere in the PU are likely not to open or to kill you for walking through them already.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:08
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The whole concept of prison mechanics are funny to me, I don't know why they think it will be inherently better that the space police arrest you instead of just shooting you. Anyone actually engaging in illegal smuggling gameplay will likely want to outrun/fight the law anyway, so it's just adding tedium and annoying mechanics for people not trying to engage with the system at all. There's a reason the GTA games make getting "WASTED" and "BUSTED" functionally the same - either way it's just a time and progress penalty, so why expand it beyond that if it doesn't do anything fun? But Crobbler has a space police fetish and there's enough tedious gamedad citizens who love the idea of being inderdicted over and over, so... Prison gameplay it is!
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Jan 28, 2020 18:21
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Rotten Red Rod posted:The whole concept of prison mechanics are funny to me, I don't know why they think it will be inherently better that the space police arrest you instead of just shooting you. Anyone actually engaging in illegal smuggling gameplay will likely want to outrun/fight the law anyway, so it's just adding tedium and annoying mechanics for people not trying to engage with the system at all. Because Elite already implemented prison.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:22
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TheAgent posted:sean tracy said they had been working on it for like 9 months, but it didn't require "that much effort" It was probably just one guy messing around with their tools in his spare time for the large part. That's how I read it anyway. Rotten Red Rod posted:TOW appears to be the same - it's a 'custom' PG World level (actually using PG Planets) using standard PU ships and weapons. They've taken the two 'teams' from Star Marine, and added some additional UI (for progressive spawn unlocks and showing progress, I think), but other than 'unlocking' the next stage I don't think there is any additional Code required? Bullshit, there is definitely extra code involved. However, I can't really blame them or make fun of them for this. I mean, isn't it their job to create a fun game to play? It sounds like some guy on the team decided that since Chris Roberts can't create something fun, he would try. And, I mean, it does look pretty fun to me. I think the combat in Star Citizen is the most compelling gameplay experience so far and I do actually have fun flying around and shooting things. Making a TvT combined arms game is actually a pretty ingenious idea, provided it is done well. Star Citizen isn't really ready to be played as a persistent MMO, but it does have enough building blocks already in-place to host a compelling TvT game mode. It provides a lot of value to an increasingly jaded community.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:22
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Nalin posted:Bullshit, there is definitely extra code involved. However, I can't really blame them or make fun of them for this. I mean, isn't it their job to create a fun game to play? It sounds like some guy on the team decided that since Chris Roberts can't create something fun, he would try. And, I mean, it does look pretty fun to me. I think the combat in Star Citizen is the most compelling gameplay experience so far and I do actually have fun flying around and shooting things. Making a TvT combined arms game is actually a pretty ingenious idea, provided it is done well. Star Citizen isn't really ready to be played as a persistent MMO, but it does have enough building blocks already in-place to host a compelling TvT game mode. It provides a lot of value to an increasingly jaded community. are you sure you've played star citizen, commando?
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Jan 28, 2020 18:25
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It's Battlefield in space but I have no doubt it will perform far worse and since they are capped at 25 v 25 it's gonna suck. This is just CIGs attempt to pull a Fortnite and pray they finally stumble into success.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:25
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Fidelitious posted:I mean, it's a fine animation. CODMW is the reason why i don't think those anims look good. granted, star citizen is a 2012 game and CODMW is a 2019 game, but
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Jan 28, 2020 18:28
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Rotten Red Rod posted:The whole concept of prison mechanics are funny to me, I don't know why they think it will be inherently better that the space police arrest you instead of just shooting you. Anyone actually engaging in illegal smuggling gameplay will likely want to outrun/fight the law anyway, so it's just adding tedium and annoying mechanics for people not trying to engage with the system at all. A base fallacy in Citizens is that there exist a set of mechanics for them (being a fleet captain, being a cool drug running rebel, lording over people in prison, etc.) . And mechanics for others (being in prison, being a space janitor, etc.) and they don't see an issue with this at all.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:28
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Can't wait for Croberts to sell out again and the receiving developers end up cutting all the content and turn this into another Everspace.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:29
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SoftNum posted:A base fallacy in Citizens is that there exist a set of mechanics for them (being a fleet captain, being a cool drug running rebel, lording over people in prison, etc.) . And mechanics for others (being in prison, being a space janitor, etc.) and they don't see an issue with this at all. Prison gameplay makes the least sense to implement right now because there are no penalties for death. You just respawn and wait for your ship timer to expire. Why would anyone engage with the crime/prison mechanics when everything else necessary for that to exist is still missing?
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Jan 28, 2020 18:31
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TheAgent posted:combat in star citizen is -- by far -- its worse loving aspect I totally have, but I guess I should say that it also really depends on the ship you are flying. Trying to fight in the Constellation, the worst ship in the game, is pretty terrible. Trying to fight in a Buccaneer, the most agile glass-cannon ship in the game, is pretty fun. The AI behaves itself most of the time nowadays, so you can get a good fight going. I won't deny that there are AI bugs, though, that can stop ships from flying right, but I find that most of the time things work fine. Keep in mind that my only experience with the game recently comes from patches 3.7 and 3.8.1. It might have been a lot worse in the past, but nowadays things are playable.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:31
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here's what you'd have to gently caress with to create a 25v25 mode in star citizen new matchmaking tools a new UI new server code new gameplay code that should include:
designing and then implementing a progression system and probably a few dozen other things
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Jan 28, 2020 18:37
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Nalin posted:I totally have, but I guess I should say that it also really depends on the ship you are flying. Trying to fight in the Constellation, the worst ship in the game, is pretty terrible. Trying to fight in a Buccaneer, the most agile glass-cannon ship in the game, is pretty fun. The AI behaves itself most of the time nowadays, so you can get a good fight going. I won't deny that there are AI bugs, though, that can stop ships from flying right, but I find that most of the time things work fine. also the AI is still broken as gently caress, but this gamemode would be player v player, and any player v player combat in Star Citizen sucks and has sucked since the PU was released
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Jan 28, 2020 18:39
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Inacio posted:sunglasses-wearing-despite-being-inside, acting-class-taking, no-gently caress-giving-anymore sandi era was the best. you could feel the discomfort. Don't forget coming into the office covered in gang tattoos because you're moonlighting as an extra. And you just KNOW that Sandi would say that if you had similar tattoos, you are unprofessional and they won't hire you.
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Jan 28, 2020 18:58
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