|
I don't even remember the official story. it was that Bush did it, right?
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 14:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 20:24 |
|
|
90s Cringe Rock posted:I don't even remember the official story. it was that Bush did it, right? Al Gore did it (he's a really sore loser).
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 14:03
|
|
|
Agnostalgia posted:The only 9-11 conspiracies i take issue with are the ones that hinge on the idea that it's simply impossible that a skyscraper would fall down after you ram a passenger jet into it and there must be another explanation. It's a giant loving airplane going really fast! Yeah; like I coukd believe that the government paid off some terror groups to launch an attack (although I don't think there's good evidence of that rn) but the controlled demolition stuff is just silly
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 16:16
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:never bought the wackier 9/11 conspiracies but the official narrative is very obviously not true. Didn't the official report suppress evidence that the Saudi government knew about it or am I remembering wrong
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 16:17
|
|
|
Goon Danton posted:Also general war weariness means people are going to go back and critique what they see as the starting event in those wars. "The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are bullshit, and the government specifically invoked 9/11 as the reason to do both of them, so maybe 9/11 is also bullshit?" I think afghanistan specifically is being more widely accepted as a huge waste and not the ok war
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 16:26
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:Yeah; like I coukd believe that the government paid off some terror groups to launch an attack (although I don't think there's good evidence of that rn) but the controlled demolition stuff is just silly More specifically, my feeling is that Cheney and his cabal were hoping that something would crop up which they could exploit for the war on Iraq they had a desperate warboner for, and they were negligent enough to allow something to happen, and that something happened to be 9/11. It ended up being way bigger and with way more fatalities than they expected. That's the sort of theory I think has credibility. I don't think Dick Cheney ever thought "I know, I'll have them knock down the World Trade Center". But I also think that as soon has he heard the news about the first plane hitting his mind rapidly went to "How do I exploit this event to advance my agenda?"
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 18:42
|
|
|
Here's a fun and useful (though not completely comprehensive) tool exploring how one NGO in particular, Amensty International, launders the motives of the us state department https://uploads.knightlab.com/storymapjs/8ce1eb99c588e0fde0b68c641a1a5df8/test/index.html web 2.0 ftw
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 19:24
|
|
|
And for a more tangible and recently revealed conspiracy, it's all but completely come out that the UN general secretary Dag Hammarskjöld was assassinated by the CIA because he was trying to broker a peace deal that would have seen the success of Patrice Lumumba in the Congo. More specifically, a soldier bragged about doing it: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/world/africa/hammarskjold-crash-mystery.html https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/12/raf-veteran-admitted-killing-un-secretary-general-dag-hammarskjold-in-1961 Here's the quick rundown - In 1960 Lumumba's party, the MNC, had successfully won parliamentary elections, Lumumba had become prime minister, and the former Belgian Congo gained its independence. The MNC was a nationalist party that aimed to unite Congolese of all tribes and ethnicities under the banner of a federated Congo, and Lumumba sought to quickly develop the Congo from another post-colonial nation into its own, independent entity. - Very quickly after independence the Katanga Free State was declared in the southern portion of the country. However, most of the people in that region of the country were either opposed to or indifferent towards independence; it was not a genuine sentiment among the peoples of the Congo. Instead Katanga's independence was spearheaded by Union Miniere, one of Belgium's largest mining companies, in coordination with high-ranking Belgian military advisors, who trained and armed mercenaries, many of whom were white supremacist French/Belgian/British/Rhodesian/South AFrican nationals. Think proto-Soldier of Fortune mag types -The reason the southern state was picked for independence was because it contained much of the Congo's mineral wealth, the plan being to turn the Congo into a rump state still dependent on Belgian mining in a new form of colonialism (what is generally called "neocolonialism"), since . However, rather than capitulating to Katanga, Lumumba sought the assistance of the United Nations in bringing them back into the country. Dag Hammerskjöld, being particularly sympathetic to assisting colonial nations in becoming independent (certainly more than any general secretary since), agreed, and sent UN troops to bring Katanga under control. -As he was on a flight to the Congo to broker a peace deal, his plane crashed, killing him and several others. Eyewitness statements universally corroborated that the plane was already severely damaged by some sort of rocket attack before it crash-landed. Lumumba, of course, was taken care of by the CIA personally. Even at the time, people as radically loony and left-wing as Harry S Truman insinuated that the secretary's death was more of a murder than an aviation accident -It was uncovered in the 90s by South Africa's Truth & Reconciliation Committee that, in fact, the CIA did make plans for murdering Hammerskjöld, under Allen Dulles' direct orders, and they planned on doing so by bringing together a coterie of Belgian and British paramilitaries. This newest development is that Jan van Rissegem, a Belgian military pilot, had secret and previously unknown ties to the RAF and MI6, and that he bragged to his friends and family about pulling the trigger on Hammerskjöld, using information that couldn't be known by any imposter and diary entries written at the time corroborating him, in addition to a new documentary presenting even more evidence and invalidating his alibis
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:Didn't the official report suppress evidence that the Saudi government knew about it or am I remembering wrong oh yeah, famously redacted 28 pages pertaining to saudi (and some say, israeli) involvement. the 2 things i have never seen adequately explained, because the feds and CIA basically refused to investigate them and i suspect played a role in pushing the more insane stuff like hologram planes etc to poison critiques of the official narrative, are: 1. the put option trades on american and united airlines stock that legit academic researchers have all said could only have been made by people with advanced knowledge of the attacks; 2. the "dancing israelis" and the "art students" who were all apparently aware of the pending attacks and later found to have connections to a mossad front company in new york. all flown out of the US before any investigation could take place.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 01:51
|
|
|
Warthur posted:More specifically, my feeling is that Cheney and his cabal were hoping that something would crop up which they could exploit for the war on Iraq they had a desperate warboner for, and they were negligent enough to allow something to happen, and that something happened to be 9/11. It ended up being way bigger and with way more fatalities than they expected. ya this feels right. iirc MI6, mossad and GRU all tried to warn the bush admin that al qaeda were planning something huge and they were baffled at the sheer indifference they were met with. throw in the feds giving the hijackers such a long leash (didn't some spook say "i sure hope this isn't those guys in florida" on the day?). christopher hitchens said when he saw the news that morning he felt jazzed as gently caress, so imagine how cheney felt.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 01:57
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:2. the "dancing israelis" and the "art students" who were all apparently aware of the pending attacks and later found to have connections to a mossad front company in new york. all flown out of the US before any investigation could take place.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 02:56
|
|
|
Warthur posted:My feeling on those dudes is that, whatever connections they may have had to Mossad, they really were art students. They'd set their cameras up to get some long shots of the Twin Towers, because that's the sort of poo poo you do when you're in New York gathering B-roll footage, and they happened to be a) perfectly placed to record the attacks as they happened and b) callous enough that their first thought was "We are going to get SO RICH selling the rights to these pictures!" i think they were two different groups, the guys dancing were only seen once in new york on the day, and the art students were people who kept mysteriously appearing at US government buildings all over the country in the year leading up to 9/11. when they were asked for documents or ID everything they produced turned out to be phony. there's also a weird connection or two to the CIA and KSA wrt the flight school in florida but my memory of that is fuzzy atm.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 03:44
|
|
|
gonna read about 9/11 again i think, try and find all that stuff again
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 03:45
|
|
|
god, little pang of nostalgia here, remembering how good salon could be in the 00s. obama really hosed so much up. https://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/ quote:the Israelis visited locations not known to the public -- areas without street addresses, for example, or DEA offices not identified as such -- leading authorities to suspect that information had been gathered from prior surveillance or perhaps electronically, from credit cards and other sources. One Israeli was discovered holding banking receipts for substantial sums of money, close to $180,000 in withdrawals and deposits over a two-month period. A number of the Israelis resided for a period of time in Hollywood, Fla. -- the small city where Mohammed Atta and three terrorist comrades lived for a time before Sept. 11. there's a vibe of angst and sad futility to people who are still way into 9/11 conspiracy stuff, which is why i've never really gone down the rabbit hole even though thereis plenty of weirdness to be found. i don't get the same feeling of weariness and ennui when i read about other spooky events, many of them much older. i wonder why that is. maybe cos it was so big it has kind of been flogged to death, idk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 06:06
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:god, little pang of nostalgia here, remembering how good salon could be in the 00s. obama really hosed so much up. it’s a rabbit hole I’ve been down and it’s just like every other rabbit hole, so twisted with nuttiness and Disinfo it’s hard to impossible to piece a concrete solution together from the over abundance of dumb theories and sources of dubious credibility. Then I turned into a Lib for a while and got kinda peer pressured out of being a kook so much. In the wake of Epstein and reprocessing the last decade I’ve just kind of decided to just say gently caress it and admit to myself that everything is ducked and weird, and it’s frankly kind of suspicious just how much disinfo there is. Also sketchy how it’s treated as downright offensive and unpatriotic on top of kooky and “weird” to question the official story. The trick is to just know you’ll never get a real answer, but you end up believing less fake answers. Of course then you become unmoored and disconnected but nobody said this poo poo was easy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 06:13
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:there's also a weird connection or two to the CIA and KSA wrt the flight school in florida but my memory of that is fuzzy atm. The art students and hijackers lived on the same city block lol. Also when the hijackers were taking flight lessons the pilots told the government Gee sure is weird these guys don’t want to learn how to land. Cool stuff
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 06:18
|
|
|
Robotnik Nudes posted:it’s a rabbit hole I’ve been down and it’s just like every other rabbit hole, so twisted with nuttiness and Disinfo it’s hard to impossible to piece a concrete solution together from the over abundance of dumb theories and sources of dubious credibility. yeah i agree with most of this. i think a certain amount of paranoia is necessary just to avoid being played, especially as you say given the weirdness of the last decade and the amount of disinformation out there. i generally approach this "deep politics" stuff like i would any other type of social or political history. we have evidence for some things, good reason to believe other things, and can speculate in an informed way about the rest. what i've realised as i've gotten older is much of history is just a series of conspiracies that we only found evidence for after the fact. 20th century italian history is a perfect example. i used to try to avoid looking like a "conspiracy theorist" but especially after epstein i've realised it's generally a term thrown around by people who are determined not to challenge their own thought patterns or why they default to official narratives of obviously suspicious events (not to get all "the sheeple are the real enemy"). i totally get why, we're programmed not to rock the boat and it's a scary world out there. there isn't much you can do with the knowledge that the world probably really is run by a murderous syndicate of paedophiles, especially when you have to make rent and pay your bills. and if someone is determined not to follow interesting tangents into the weeds there's not much to be done about that either i guess. i still think "deep politics" is a profoundly interesting area though, and recognising there are recurring patterns and methods that the sickos deploy with all kinds of different events is very useful and instructive. just remember to come up for air every now and again, get drunk down the pub with good people so you don't get consumed by it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 06:38
|
|
|
Algund Eenboom posted:The art students and hijackers lived on the same city block lol. Also when the hijackers were taking flight lessons the pilots told the government Gee sure is weird these guys don’t want to learn how to land. Cool stuff yeah i saw that in the salon article, that had me crack pinging for a sec just now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 06:40
|
|
|
What's the Boston bombing theory again? The cops were running them as informants and lost control?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 06:56
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:What's the Boston bombing theory again? The cops were running them as informants and lost control? Dude was just so sexy he made people explode and the cops had to cover up that someone so sexy wasn’t white.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 07:07
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:What's the Boston bombing theory again? The cops were running them as informants and lost control? Jose posted:Lol I know nobody here doubts epstein was an intelligence asset but check this out
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 07:19
|
|
|
funny thing about the 9/11 conspiracy folks, the existence of video footage (of the WTC crashes) requires explanation, but its absence (at the Pentagon) somehow also requires explanation
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 10:27
|
|
|
they should have hit the pentagon twice.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 10:43
|
|
|
I came across this very unwell person during a Twitter search rabbit hole last night. Enjoy? https://twitter.com/America05906759/status/1181817702786035713
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2020 20:17
|
|
|
quote:I overheard that there were “Elv’s” in town today, with names like Flurry NoggenBeard, Thumbs Tinkerschidt, and Fruitacake SprinklePants. At Walmart, there were actually fake customers pointing at people in the store, and making bets as to which of the other shoppers in the store were “Elv’s”, and they were betting what the names of the Elv’s were, I heard “Crafty UnderBench”, “Polly IceSyckle”, and “Philly McToyStore” were among the most popular wagers for those who were pointed out by the Walmart terror soldiers, as they hunted for outsiders to mark for the kill.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
I want to live in the world this person lives in
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2020 20:46
|
|
|
Algund Eenboom posted:And for a more tangible and recently revealed conspiracy, it's all but completely come out that the UN general secretary Dag Hammarskjöld was assassinated by the CIA because he was trying to broker a peace deal that would have seen the success of Patrice Lumumba in the Congo. More specifically, a soldier bragged about doing it: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/world/africa/hammarskjold-crash-mystery.html https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/12/raf-veteran-admitted-killing-un-secretary-general-dag-hammarskjold-in-1961 Cold Case Hammarskjold is a really well done film, but I'm skeptical of it's ultimate findings if only because he winds up relying way too heavily on a single source who cannot conclusively prove he was ever in the secret organization he claims to be a part of. I mean, arguably it's absolutely true and everything is believable, but I don't think it completely closes the case. Also re: 9/11 -- Yeah, the thing that always bothered me was all the controlled demolition narratives and the like. I don't buy that the Bush admin deliberately caused this to happen (though Let it Happen either through negligence or intent seems plausible) but even if they did why do it in the most elaborate way imaginable? The simpler the better, the fewer people involved the better. All they would have needed to do is work directly with Bin Laden to coordinate the attack and leave it at that. You seriously gonna pay a bunch of contractors to plant explosives who could one day blab? I mean, we all know the real 9/11 conspiracy anyway is Saudi Arabia's direct involvement and the government's decision to totally ignore that and cover it up to pursue war with Afghanistan and Iraq instead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2020 21:42
|
|
|
thicc_waluigi posted:I want to live in the world this person lives in honestly believing that other shoppers in a big box are branded einsatzgruppen marking other shoppers for death sounds frankly terrifying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2020 21:51
|
|
|
LonsomeSon posted:honestly believing that other shoppers in a big box are branded einsatzgruppen marking other shoppers for death sounds frankly terrifying. gang stalking is just sad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
TrixRabbi posted:I mean, we all know the real 9/11 conspiracy anyway is Saudi Arabia's direct involvement and the government's decision to totally ignore that and cover it up to pursue war with Afghanistan and Iraq instead. And now Iran too, based on Pence's laughable claims about Suleimani doing 9-11.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2020 22:40
|
|
|
Posting this because I keep forgetting the blog exists: http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/15909/head-n-shoulders/ Mildly interesting UFO stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:25
|
|
|
LonsomeSon posted:honestly believing that other shoppers in a big box are branded einsatzgruppen marking other shoppers for death sounds frankly terrifying. this is like super classic schizophrenia and judging by the life of someone I sort of know - you don’t want to be schizophrenic
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 11:05
|
|
|
That nitrox twitter guy is weird to me because I'm not used to that kind of all-consuming paranoid delusion being laid out so coherently. I almost wonder if it's a creative writing thing, but thats a lot of effort for 0 viewers if so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 23:40
|
|
|
Agnostalgia posted:That nitrox twitter guy is weird to me because I'm not used to that kind of all-consuming paranoid delusion being laid out so coherently. I almost wonder if it's a creative writing thing, but thats a lot of effort for 0 viewers if so. please link
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 00:20
|
|
|
Can someone explain the weird Moorish offshoot of Sovereign Citizens? The weirdos that don't have any names, are somehow Moraccan citizens despite never setting foot there because somehow the US is property of Morocco or something?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2020 18:49
|
|
|
having learned that in addition to Obama’s first job out of college being a known CIA front, that his mother worked for USAID (also a known front), I’m really starting to suspect that the Birther conspiracies were hyped up (often by what I recall being called Civilian Intelligence Network, an informal association of “former” intelligence workers dedicated to right wing conspiracy mongering) specifically to prevent any actual parapolitical investigation into Obama’s ties to intelligence. idk that’s all I have research is hard
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2020 08:23
|
|
|
Hear that sound? The crack pings? It's people finding the Butt-CIA-Caucus Software by Shadow-SACRONYM trail. Just all out in the open. They don't care.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
This Iowa stuff does have me thinking on a related note: is there any plausibility to the right wing claim that Kennedy stole Illinois in 1960? He did have a lot of shady connections but it also reads as sore loserdom plus justification for Watergate
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2020 23:19
|
|
|
I mean, Chicago politics are second only to Tammany Hall in terms of US legends about extensive and complicated political corruption. Illinois in general is still known for that kind of thing, remember that governor going down for trying to sell a Senate appointment? Rod Blagojevich, I had to go google his name for the correct spelling.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 00:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 20:24 |
|
|
OpenSourceBurger posted:Can someone explain the weird Moorish offshoot of Sovereign Citizens? The weirdos that don't have any names, are somehow Moraccan citizens despite never setting foot there because somehow the US is property of Morocco or something? Gazpacho has issued a correction as of 02:28 on Feb 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 02:23
|
|