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Has anyone here ever installed their own water heater in an existing house? I have an electric one so my main concern is how much of a bitch copper pipe soldering will be. The previous owner had soldered the gate valves that feed it and I would want to install new ball valves and an expansion tank.
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Jan 16, 2020 22:20
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Blindeye posted:Has anyone here ever installed their own water heater in an existing house? I have an electric one so my main concern is how much of a bitch copper pipe soldering will be. I have limited experience with sweating pipe, but the only tough part was being short I was always kinda looking up at the solder dripping down on my neck which hurts real bad. A piece of advice from an older relative: attach your shutoff valves higher up than you need, then put a length of pipe with a coupling between the valve and your dielectric union so when you have to change the water heater in the future, you're removing that coupling rather than messing with the whole valve and junk.
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Jan 16, 2020 22:54
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I'll post a separate reply since I'm asking an unrelated question: If the dishwasher drain hose would have to go to the far side of the sink to reach the air gap, should I find some other solution for installing an air gap? Basically should the drain hose drain to the main sink plumbing as close to the dishwasher as possible? I have some (hideous) granite counter tops that I don't want to deal with cutting a second hole into, mostly because I don't have the proper tools or experience and my wife would probably freak out.
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Jan 16, 2020 23:00
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SopWATh posted:I have limited experience with sweating pipe, but the only tough part was being short I was always kinda looking up at the solder dripping down on my neck which hurts real bad. The valve stem assembly I plan to make on a bench should be transferable between water heaters as I've designed it. In theory every component from now on can be unscrewed and replaced without future soldering. Of course, knowing my water main, I'll also likely need to use the bread trick to ensure a dry tap too....
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Jan 16, 2020 23:10
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Blindeye posted:The valve stem assembly I plan to make on a bench should be transferable between water heaters as I've designed it. In theory every component from now on can be unscrewed and replaced without future soldering. Is your main shutoff one of those old, partially stuck, bad-packing gate-valves? The past three places I've owned, replacing that with a proper ball valve was generally task #1 for plumbing.
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Jan 16, 2020 23:52
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Blindeye posted:Has anyone here ever installed their own water heater in an existing house? I have an electric one so my main concern is how much of a bitch copper pipe soldering will be. I have installed five water heaters in my house since 1994. Just switched out a defective one on Sunday. There are numerous YouTube videos that detail soldering copper. Do you have the tools to do it? It is a excellent to skill to have. Mine are hard-piped all the way, but using WH flex hoses is acceptable in most instances. Definitely change the gate valves to ball valves. Take Blindeye's advice and leave as much pipe after the shutoff as you can; in fact, if possible, leave at least four inches ahead too, in case you have to change them out...or solder on a male threaded end, and use screw-on ball valves.
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Jan 16, 2020 23:58
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SopWATh posted:Is your main shutoff one of those old, partially stuck, bad-packing gate-valves? The only shutoff is in the front lawn with the meter but it's easy enough to get to, but in the past working on other piping it will trickle a bit. I wish an indoor ball valve was installed when the basement was finished but alas, this isn't the case so I'd need to find the pipe in the basement ceiling somehow without loving up tons of drywall. As for the good news, the physical space is cramped for the water heater but it is electric and has ~8" of copper pipe coming out of the wall before they soldered on these lovely gate valves. The plan is to solder threaded ends as much as possible on my work bench to create an easy to install manifold before I even put the new tank in, where every fitting can be swapped. That way the only 2 field solders will be threaded ends on the existing hot and cold lines. Blindeye fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 00:33
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vyst posted:I just need a sanity check. I live in Michigan and we recently had like 3 inches of rain in Saturday then minor snow and ice on Sunday, and its been warm enough for the snow to melt the past couple of days, definitely minor flooding in the yard. My sump pump has been running constantly ever since now i don't know how long it's been running each session but it feels like a long time. The basin still has water in it about maybe 20% or so of the way up. Before this it would operate sporadically as it probably should Update on this: Turned out the float switch was stuck in on. All good now though. Thanks for the help plumbergoons - although something needed to be fixed the comments about the sump pump being able to take the beating helped me more than you know.
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Jan 17, 2020 03:03
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Blindeye posted:Has anyone here ever installed their own water heater in an existing house? I have an electric one so my main concern is how much of a bitch copper pipe soldering will be. Yep. Drain the old one first. You will want to unscrew the drain from the bottom out of the tank. That's because electrics pull sediment out of the water and it collects as gravel in the bottom. When it gets slow, stick a long screwdriver in the hole to bust up the big pieces. Trust me on this one. You'll remove 10-20 pounds of weight from the old tank before you carry it out of your house. Borrow or rent a hand truck. If it's in a basement, get a helper to get it up the stairs. You can solder some pieces at a bench, but you will need to do some work with the heater in place just so that things line up. If you're doing all copper, get new dielectric unions. Take the plastic parts out while you're soldering. Plan ahead for this. Don't make the solder joint down at the union where the plastic sits the last one. Get rid of as much water as you can before soldering. Water can absorb a poo poo ton of heat. Use wrenches to hold the little pipe bits while soldering! They make backer pads to take the heat if you have to solder near any woodwork. If you're using quarter turn shut off valves, make sure that there's enough room for the full travel of the handle. You may want to use a shut off valve for the expansion tank too. Repeat after me: do NOT use gate valves. They're awful and rarely shut 100%. Use globe or ball valves. You have to get up in several inches of diameter before gate valves are worth a drat. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jan 19, 2020 |
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Jan 19, 2020 23:27
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In other news, whoever thought putting right angles inside toilet drains that catch poop bricks was a good idea should be drug out into the street and shot.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:18
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kid sinister posted:Yep. Drain the old one first. You will want to unscrew the drain from the bottom out of the tank. That's because electrics pull sediment out of the water and it collects as gravel in the bottom. When it gets slow, stick a long screwdriver in the hole to bust up the big pieces. Trust me on this one. You'll remove 10-20 pounds of weight from the old tank before you carry it out of your house. All this is to replace the dumb gate valves already installed. Any opinions on shark bites for any connections?
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Jan 20, 2020 02:23
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If you're not very handy or don't want to experiment with soldering, you can use this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-...ctor/1000179023 This takes care of many issues like lining up existing tank and worrying about soldering a dozen individual connectors. Code compliant in my area. You can buy them at 1/2" or 3/4" output size. Shark bites are fine as long and you don't bury them inside a wall
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Jan 20, 2020 08:11
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Blindeye posted:All this is to replace the dumb gate valves already installed. Sharkbite works fine if you can do a good job preparing the pipe ends, making sure they're really round, deburring the ends, and so on. Sharkbite works fine if the pipe is really well-secured and does NOT move. If you cannot guarantee those conditions, you should look at other options. EDIT: I should add that I'm not a pro-plumber, but I've seen them work fine at work for the maintenance department and I've seen them fail in areas where the pipe is able to move or kinda wiggle in the wall.
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Jan 20, 2020 18:29
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SopWATh posted:Sharkbite works fine if you can do a good job preparing the pipe ends, making sure they're really round, deburring the ends, and so on. Theoretically there's only two fittings I'd need to field-solder, and those could be secured with threaded-end sharkbites if I want to. The pipes are not the most well secured but I can easily attach pipe braces there to stabilize the connection.
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Jan 20, 2020 19:34
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The thermostatic regulator on my tenant's steam radiator just popped off (had the thing repaired a year ago), not sure how that gets hosed up but he can't get it back on and here we are: https://photos.app.goo.gl/eFbSkGTV5gqQMkBY8 I see some regulators on Amazon which just screw on directly instead of this capillary wire bullshit: https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-T104A1040-Zone-Valve-Operator/dp/B002KMFVLY Should that work if I buy it? Can't tell if it would fit. I would just remove the plastic on the radiator in my picture and put that there and they can turn it like a control knob, correct?
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Jan 20, 2020 21:08
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Blindeye posted:Theoretically there's only two fittings I'd need to field-solder, and those could be secured with threaded-end sharkbites if I want to. The pipes are not the most well secured but I can easily attach pipe braces there to stabilize the connection. I would secure the pipe as best you can, even if you don't go with the sharkbite fittings.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:24
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My tenant has the thermostatic valve (which I paid to have replaced a year ago) pop the gently caress out of the casing and she can't get it back in. https://photos.app.goo.gl/jJ6Cvs2VMkfjU3BN6 Since it's the second time it broke (first one that thin little wire ripped, this time that sensor popped out), I figure I'll replace it with something simpler with no wire: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KMFVLY/ I got that new part today and it doesn't seem like it would go where the old one did on the radiator (at the steam vent location). Do I need to redo the whole radiator now so the bottom has this https://www.amazon.com/Thermostatic-Radiator-Valve-Size/dp/B008HOS6W0/ and the twist-dial, and the top is only a steam vent? Or is there a way to adapt the steam vent area to take this twist dial and leave the bottom of the radiator as just that open valve?
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Jan 22, 2020 23:10
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Hey helpful peeps! Some Renos were being done and in the process a broken zone valve actuator got tossed before there was a replacement. I can't figure out what head this needs. It's Honeywell but I can't find it in their info. Anyone know what this mounting would be or what would fit it?
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Jan 25, 2020 03:40
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If all else fails, Harbor Freight vise-grips, or an aftermarket gearshift knob oughta do it.
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Jan 25, 2020 03:48
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That looks like a v8043 5000 series valve to me.
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Jan 25, 2020 04:16
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SopWATh posted:I have limited experience with sweating pipe, but the only tough part was being short I was always kinda looking up at the solder dripping down on my neck which hurts real bad. That’s great advice and nuanced insight.
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Jan 25, 2020 23:49
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So I'm hoping to maybe get some answers and input on what to do about my kitchen sink drainage. Yesterday the drain started backing up for both of them, so I'm pretty sure that there's a blockage in the p-trap or vertical riser beneath the tee. However, when we've done dishes, we've usually seen where suds/etc. will back up into the side that isn't actively being used regardless, even when it was otherwise draining well. My first thought was to simply pop off the p trap and clean it, which I plan to do tomorrow, but I'd kinda like to see if I could maybe improve the setup some. As you can see in the photos, the drain outlet itself is fairly high, so there's about 1 1/2" between the centerline of the disposal outlet and the drain wall penetration. It also doesn't help that currently the disposal discharge pipe actually slopes down from the tee to the disposal.   I picked one of those Snappy Trap kits (https://www.homedepot.com/p/SnappyT...wE&gclsrc=aw.ds) that has a flexible PVC (smooth interior) branch for each drain point and it connects into a wye that connects to the p-trap, but I'm second guessing that (haven't installed it yet). It actually said it needs 2" minimum between disposal centerline and drain. So at the moment, I'm thinking of maybe using a wye or long-sweep tee to get the disposal discharge connected per the image below, but I haven't been able to find a compression wye fitting. Is this a situation where I'd probably have to solvent on a couple of adapter segments to use it? Secondly, are the p-trap dimensions a code item generally and fixed in height/etc. for a given size, or could I get a longer radius p-trap so that I could get some slope down on the disposal drain as part of putting together a wye fitting install. 
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Jan 28, 2020 07:57
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Zero VGS posted:The thermostatic regulator on my tenant's steam radiator just popped off (had the thing repaired a year ago), not sure how that gets hosed up but he can't get it back on and here we are: If anyone was wondering, none of the local plumbing supply stores had stuff to make those twist dials work, so I just removed all that stuff from the side of the radiator and put a 90-degree steam vent instead, and replaced the knob on the bottom. Much better to just simplify it instead of all these bimetal/capillary shenanigans.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:47
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I just want to share the  patch job my friend and I made to attempt to seal a pipe that burst in my best friends house in the late afternoon today. FlexSeal tape and a ton of clamps, but at least it's only a slow drip now.
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Jan 31, 2020 07:46
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pseudorandom posted:I just want to share the That is a legit thing that exists, and probably wouldn't have leaked if you used rubber instead of flexseal
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Feb 1, 2020 00:26
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I just used a similar item to repair a pinhole leak in an apartment complex, no way to shut off water to the building until tomorrow morning. Those repair clamps work remarkably well on the clean flat surface.
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Feb 1, 2020 03:21
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devicenull posted:That is a legit thing that exists, and probably wouldn't have leaked if you used rubber instead of flexseal Unfortunately, due to the nature of the leak this was the best I could improvise at Lowe's at 7pm. I knew rubber would have been better, but outside of tearing up some gloves, the tape seemed like a reasonable rubber-like substitute since I couldn't think of any other cheap rubber item.
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Feb 1, 2020 03:37
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Plumbing goons, I'm seeking your advice on how to re-plumb a bathroom. My wife and I needed to tear our upstairs bathroom apart due to failing plaster and mold issues, as well as expand it slightly. There's a load-bearing wall on the shower-side of the bathroom, so we removed the non-load-bearing wall behind the sink/toilet. The main soil vent and a vent for the sink run through this wall. We're also moving the wall back ~12" to expand the bathroom. The trouble is that this means the wall no longer lines up with the wall on the first floor, and the waste/soil pipe and main vent now need to be re-routed. The supply lines aren't an issue, I can convert them to PEX or run copper. We're both very experienced with supply-side plumbing, hydronic plumbing, framing, electrical, etc. However, we're not sure how to deal with the waste/soil lines and vents, as we've never needed to do major changes like this. We will be removing everything in the upstairs bathroom. Floor, ceiling, all wall board, all going away. I have no reluctance to run new pipes two floors to the basement, nor do I care about cutting the entire first floor bathroom wallboard, as you'll see. We want this done right, and cost isn't a huge factor. Here's an overall view of the back of the second floor sink/toilet:  The 3" PVC on the right is the main stack. There are no more inputs above the sink connection in the pitcure. It continues straight up into the attic and out the roof. The 2" PVC on the left is the vent for the first floor sink. See below. New wall to be constructed as noted. Galvanized pipe in joist space is our kitchen hood vent, and could be shifted to the other side of the joist bay if needed. Ignore the heating pipes, those are going away, moved down into the floor. We're putting in heated tile. Overall view of the first floor bathroom wall, note that this photo is from the "front" side, so reverse it to match up with the above photo:  Framing/plumbing drawn in by my artistically-impaired wife. Supply lines on left, main stack in middle, vent/waste drains for sinks on right. So... how do we re-route the toilet and second floor sink drains? It's my understanding that the vent pipes can bend as needed, since they're only carrying air. We're willing to give up space in the vanity for the piping, if needed.
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Feb 6, 2020 15:27
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You can turn that vent between first and second floor to come up inside your new 2f framing, but the hvac vent is in the way. You can make that turn sooner, in the first floor bathroom ceiling, and whatever's on the other side of the wall is going to have a soffit. Once the pipe is up in the attic, turn it again to match the existing roof opening. Keep your turns on 45's, not 90s.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:59
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What's on the other side of the lower-level bathroom wall? Like Nitrox said, I think you're going to have to frame a soffit into that room that allows you to 45-45 a 90 degree turn.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:33
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Kitchen cabinets. Boxing that out isn't viable, but moving the hood vent to the far side of the joist space is. I'll see how much room I can get with the vent pipe. Thanks.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:00
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Your most immediate concern is how to plumb the closet flange for the toilet. Without cutting the joist next to the range hood vent line, you may have to drop the plumbing below the kitchen ceiling & soffit it in. Since I have no idea how your kitchen underneath is configured, I am assuming Murphy's Law and that it would turn your kitchen into a total poo poo-show. Maybe elevate the floor? Because the wall you want to move is over the one chase/void that you have to work with, and you don't want to be cutting any floor joists. e: where does the shower/tub drain? Does it tie into the stack under the floor?
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Feb 7, 2020 04:27
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PainterofCrap posted:Your most immediate concern is how to plumb the closet flange for the toilet. Without cutting the joist next to the range hood vent line, you may have to drop the plumbing below the kitchen ceiling & soffit it in. Since I have no idea how your kitchen underneath is configured, I am assuming Murphy's Law and that it would turn your kitchen into a total poo poo-show. That was my thinking. How do you push that flange and vent back without going either over or under the floor joist. Having cabinets in that space might not be a bad thing. I actually have a drain line that runs through the top of 2 of my full-height cabinets, and you can just get a thin piece of plywood that matches the interior of the cabinet and box in the pipe with that and a shelf. It just looks like a narrow shelf, and you'd never know what it was unless you were looking for it.
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Feb 7, 2020 14:01
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I'm renting some commercial space in a new building, retail on the first floor, condos above. On my walk through the other day, I saw that they were running all of the domestic water supply lines with PVC. Is this normal? I've only ever seen copper or flexible plastic. Also, probably the wrong place to ask, but does anyone have any strong opinions on commercial HVAC equipment brands? I'm looking at either Mitsubishi or Daikin.
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Feb 7, 2020 14:35
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Oh, and for that guy with the sump pump, my yard is an active swamp in the spring time, and when it rains it floods right up to my basement door. My sump pump runs 24/7 for most of April. My advice is to put together a disaster kit, mine's in an old milk crate. Submersible pool pump, 20 foot garden hose, extension cord. I keep it right next to my little generator, and together they saved my bacon when I lost power for 5 days after the Noreaster in winter 2018. Pop the top off the sump, lower in the pump, and pump into my set tub to drain (in most places, it's illegal to pump your sump into the sewer, but under emergency situations it's not a big deal). I even have a battery back up system with an auxiliary pump (two deep cycle marine batteries), but if it needs to run constantly, the batteries are good for only maybe 3 hours.
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Feb 7, 2020 14:42
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B-Nasty posted:That was my thinking. How do you push that flange and vent back without going either over or under the floor joist. The new flange will be roughly where the current vent is. I'm hoping to offset the stack toward the vanity in the downstairs wall, convert it to vertical, connect the WC, then bring it up inside the vanity and offset it into the back of the vanity to get into the wall. I'll try to get a diagram together. I'm also not 100% sure if this is code-legal. Can we offset the 3" stack with 2x 45° below the WC (one to the right, and one to the left), connect the WC, then offset it again in the vanity above where the WC connects? Can we still connect the lav above where it offsets for the WC? Kinda like this  It's mislabeled as soil vent, it's just the 3" soil pipe, but also the main vent for the septic and all plumbing. Again, I'm fine losing space in the vanity. Especially in the back, it's pretty useless. PainterofCrap posted:Your most immediate concern is how to plumb the closet flange for the toilet. Without cutting the joist next to the range hood vent line, you may have to drop the plumbing below the kitchen ceiling & soffit it in. Since I have no idea how your kitchen underneath is configured, I am assuming Murphy's Law and that it would turn your kitchen into a total poo poo-show. Tub/shower drains down another wall, not connected to this at all. sharkytm fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 17:31
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Squashy Nipples posted:I'm renting some commercial space in a new building, retail on the first floor, condos above. On my walk through the other day, I saw that they were running all of the domestic water supply lines with PVC. Is this normal? I've only ever seen copper or flexible plastic. Was it PVC or CPVC? PVC is allowed for cold water distribution in some areas, but CPVC is way more commonly used, and required for hot. The pipes look similar. CPVC was a popular alternative to copper before PEX started to become common in the US. PEX can also sometimes look like PVC if it's white and you don't look closely.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:36
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sharkytm posted:Can we offset the 3" stack with 2x 45° below the WC (one to the right, and one to the left), connect the WC, then offset it again in the vanity above where the WC connects? Can we still connect the lav above where it offsets for the WC? Offsets (as opposed to horizontal runs) generally are totally fine. I assume you're pulling a permit for this - at least in my area pulling a permit gives you an initial consult for free where these kinds of questions can be answered by the AHJ. I'm not a "must pull a permit for every change", but this is significant enough that I would highly recommend doing so.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:51
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B-Nasty posted:Was it PVC or CPVC? PVC is allowed for cold water distribution in some areas, but CPVC is way more commonly used, and required for hot. The pipes look similar. CPVC was a popular alternative to copper before PEX started to become common in the US. Ah good point, I didn't read anything printed on it, it just looked like plain white PVC to me.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:56
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B-Nasty posted:Offsets (as opposed to horizontal runs) generally are totally fine. I assume you're pulling a permit for this - at least in my area pulling a permit gives you an initial consult for free where these kinds of questions can be answered by the AHJ. I'm not a "must pull a permit for every change", but this is significant enough that I would highly recommend doing so. I will be pulling a permit, but our local inspector isn't exactly home-owner friendly. The first plumber we had in to check out the job wanted to cut the floor joist and wouldn't consider it any other way, which meant getting a structural engineer involved. The second wanted to run a new drain line to the basement in the exterior wall, which I'm not convinced is necessary, and would be very expensive (plus complicate things further in the basement). We've got a third plumber coming, this time with a bigger company. They've done a bunch of hydronic work for me in the past and I've liked their work. They're just very expensive, so I'd like to do as much as I can to avoid them charging $125/hour for their guys to cut wallboard and figure out how to run things. If I know what's legal/viable to do, I can suggest that as a first step and lead them in the direction I want them to go. Thanks!
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Feb 7, 2020 19:53
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