|
Like, you're probably trolling as opposed to being the worst kind of insufferable pedant, but is your position seriously that you think the people objecting to V5 using ongoing genocide as edgelord world-building don't have a moral leg to stand on because global capitalism exists and participating in it is non-negotiable?
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 20:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:53 |
|
|
LA by Night is finally back. Guess the big delay was because they left G&S and are streaming on the World of Darkness channel on Twitch now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 20:40
|
|
|
Froghammer posted:Like, you're probably trolling as opposed to being the worst kind of insufferable pedant, but is your position seriously that you think the people objecting to V5 using ongoing genocide as edgelord world-building don't have a moral leg to stand on because global capitalism exists and participating in it is non-negotiable? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
No I'm just saying yall are huge hypocrites. You really believe v5 is the one and only world of darkness book that has homophobia or racism or etc in it? Now this rhetorical of course because I dont really care what you believe cause actions mean more and that's what yall act like. This isn't the first because all of them have it every last wod book has some sort of homophobia or racism or something else thats really bad. The game you like it has it you might not remember it because haven't read it since the 90s or you have might not realized it because it was more accepted when you read but it is definitely there. And just like v5 it's okay you like the game you had/have fun playing the game and you probably didnt/dont use the bad things in the game because the meta plot doesn't matter. The wod universe is lovely and has always been lovely because they try to be edgy and it always comes off very poorly. At least with v5 they edited poo poo out and fired people over it. It's very hypocritical and weird and wreaks of edition wars. And tabletop games can't cause human suffering cause they don't have cultural presence they are too niche of a product to have that type of power. Get over yourselves stop taking the game so seriously try to enact change to the game to make it better but stop saying every differing opinion is either troll or nazi because that leads to an echo chamber full of close minded individuals who only accept opinions of those of people you like or those who are contrasting against people you dont like.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 21:38
|
|
|
This is very good
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 21:39
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
VtR 2e is the truth and the light except that I wish the physical disciplines fit the design mold for the other disciplines better. One dot rarely seems worth it, while four or more is too much investment for marginal payoff. They shine at about ~3 dots, which makes me wish they either fit the "ladder" mold (from Rose Bailey's design document) or weren't dot-rated as such - you just "have Vigor" or you don't, and having Vigor gives you such-and-such benefits which are a clear improvement over mortal Strength. (I guess the ladder model for Vigor would be "first dot lets you roll Str + Ath + Vig to summarily break an object or inflict Arm/Leg Wrack". Just as Obfuscate lets you declare "I slip by unnoticed", Vigor lets you say "I break his arm with my impossible strength".)
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
Five Eyes posted:VtR 2e is the truth and the light except that I wish the physical disciplines fit the design mold for the other disciplines better. One dot rarely seems worth it, while four or more is too much investment for marginal payoff. They shine at about ~3 dots, which makes me wish they either fit the "ladder" mold (from Rose Bailey's design document) or weren't dot-rated as such - you just "have Vigor" or you don't, and having Vigor gives you such-and-such benefits which are a clear improvement over mortal Strength. I wrote out a hypothetical along these lines like... two or three threads ago? I didn't finish polishing them into fully usable, balanced powers but they were something like: * Add your Presence to your Strength for all purposes ** Superjumps or similar "burst" athletic feats *** Ignore your Intelligence in Durability or Armor when barehanded **** Nigh-unbreakable grip and posture relevant to grappling, standing your ground, holding stuff up, etc ***** Superheroic feats like flipping trucks over or stomping craters into city streets but they have to be messily destructive Resilience 5 would be something like "you only mark one point of damage down even if you're hit by a train or crushed under a building or something but you have to spend your next turn slowly reconstituting yourself from mush"
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2020 22:38
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure there was a Hunger Dice-like mechanic in the big book of alternate rules for Requie8m that came out at the end of 1E. Man, the toolbox books for nWoD were sooo good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 01:48
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:Right, but since global capitalism entrenches and exploits hierarchies of race, gender, and so on in order to sustain and strengthen itself, if you decide to turn a blind eye to misogyny and homophobia you are in a very real sense helping the pillage of the third world to continue unabated. Nobody in here likes Metapod but buying the Vampire the Masquerade V5 rulebook and playing the game doesn't, even incidentally, assist in the stealing of native land and resources in the third world
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 02:20
|
|
|
Claiming playing a tabletop game assists in the pillaging from the third world of land and resources might be the whitest thing I've seen in a long time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 02:34
|
|
|
GNU Order posted:Nobody in here likes Metapod but buying the Vampire the Masquerade V5 rulebook and playing the game doesn't, even incidentally, assist in the stealing of native land and resources in the third world They're being hyperbolic on purpose. Please do not respond to the trolls. Do we even having a loving dedicated trad games mod? EDIT: Ferrinus is not a troll.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
GNU Order posted:Nobody in here likes Metapod but buying the Vampire the Masquerade V5 rulebook and playing the game doesn't, even incidentally, assist in the stealing of native land and resources in the third world It does, incidentally, assist in that because discrimination on the basis of race and gender is helpful to the capitalist order. If someone uses a slur or something and then is like "hey, what's the big deal, it's not like I'm starving African orphans here!", their defense is invalid. They are in fact helping that very practice to continue by buying into and reinforcing its ideological underpinnings. If they opposed imperialism they would also oppose racism and homophobia and so on because these things all tie together.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 03:03
|
|
|
Metapod posted:No I'm just saying yall are huge hypocrites. You really believe v5 is the one and only world of darkness book that has homophobia or racism or etc in it? Interacting with you is always the wrong decision, but there is a huge difference is between the background racism of the nineties and the direct, knowing, and intentional racism and bigotry V5 invoked to sell books to shitheads. The 90s WoD made mistakes, but they were mistakes of ignorance. V5's "mistakes" were a deliberate attempt to court customers, customers who would appreciate slaying gay nightclub goers, framing immigrants as a threat, normalizing pedophilia, and an oh so subtle 1488 reference. Old WW could have done better, sure. But they didn't go out of their way to appeal to the wrong side of a Charlottesville rally. It's obvious that you've got a crush on this system and setting, but honey he's no good for you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 04:40
|
|
|
moths posted:The 90s WoD made mistakes, but they were mistakes of ignorance. laughs in Ravnos
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 05:48
|
|
|
GNU Order posted:laughs in Ravnos there is exactly one IRL ravnos and it's that badass who stole that stradivarius violin and played in pub bars for 50 years
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 05:56
|
|
|
Ignorance isn't a valid excuse for some of the clowny racist poo poo that happened in the 90s, but then again I often forget race relations didn't exist until Obama got elected.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 05:58
|
|
|
It's not an excuse, but it's a gently caress of a lot less bad than actively choosing to pander to neo-nazis. Blood and Soil^H^Huls
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 06:22
|
|
|
moths posted:The 90s WoD made mistakes, but they were mistakes of ignorance. WoD was made, as many others have pointed out, from the (mostly) very narrow viewpoint of hetero white men coming from a middle-class background. They might've been considered "woke" for the 90s, but so was Joss Whedon, and both have aged like milk. Their attempts at progressiveness were made with what they knew at the time, but it's still coming from a confined understanding of race relations, gender, and non-conformity/alienation. The final product ended up coming from that viewpoint and lived experience, and it really shows. I don't really believe that the mistakes made at the time were done in ignorance. Rather, it was a lack of curiosity about being fully-informed on the matter, combined with a kind of casual arrogance that comes from being so self-assured in your own idea of progressiveness. 90's WW tried, as best as they could I imagine and probably with the best of intentions, but oWoD absolutely could not be made today, warts and all, without instantly attracting the toxicity that V5 did. People know better now. And, I wager, they knew better then too--or would have if they'd bothered to listen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 06:58
|
|
|
Did the Modiphus release of the V5 books change anything?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 07:20
|
|
|
Original White Wolf HQ was in Atlanta too. For southern whites, they tried.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 07:53
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:Did the Modiphus release of the V5 books change anything? They're basically going forward with the White Wolf edits for the first three books, with a couple of extra errata (the Profane Hiero Gamos power has been completely rewritten, some of the language has been tweaked).
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 07:57
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Original White Wolf HQ was in Atlanta too. For southern whites, they tried. Honestly for almost entirely white males headquartered out of Atlanta, in the shadow of Stone Mountain, Georgia, in the 90s? They absolutely did try, for all their failures, and 5e is all the more shameful for the disparity of trying by comparison.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 08:06
|
|
|
Slimnoid posted:WoD was made, as many others have pointed out, from the (mostly) very narrow viewpoint of hetero white men coming from a middle-class background. They might've been considered "woke" for the 90s, but so was Joss Whedon, and both have aged like milk. Their attempts at progressiveness were made with what they knew at the time, but it's still coming from a confined understanding of race relations, gender, and non-conformity/alienation. The final product ended up coming from that viewpoint and lived experience, and it really shows. I don't really believe that the mistakes made at the time were done in ignorance. Rather, it was a lack of curiosity about being fully-informed on the matter, combined with a kind of casual arrogance that comes from being so self-assured in your own idea of progressiveness. Thing is, the old white wolf guys at least acknowledged when they hosed up. The gypsy book and a bunch of the other cultural pastiche stuff got quietly retconned out of the line over time. The guys that did V5 were straight up signalling with nazi code words, ran a LARP where Sweddracula straight up thought it was okay to be a bit rapey with their rules, and generally were just unapologetic shitheads that only started dancing around what they represented when people started calling them out. Hell, they couldn't even apologize for a lot of the poo poo they did, doing that weaselly "Well i'm sorry you're offended." crap along with similar wording. There's a difference between "Oops, we hosed up! Let's fix this for all of you." and "Haha gently caress you libtard cuck *Writes in a dice roll that is secretly a nazi code word in a scenario dealing with immigrants in a shady way, hires on alt righters known to harass LGBT minorities, and then starts an international incident out of sheer bigotry.*". It's like comparing getting a hair in your soup to someone dropping trow and deliberately spewing diarrhea into it to piss you off. I'd argue that the OWoD of pre-V5 fame wouldn't be written at all today since the people behind it would have a bit more self awareness and generally didn't seem like raging douche bags behind the scene. Instead we would have gotten a more metaplotty VtR or something like it. Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Feb 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 15:34
|
|
|
Remember that the first few things that Swedracula did once he was put in charge of V5 was hold a few press conferences where he said that making the world of darkness more politically correct was a mistake and he wanted to return to the good old days when you could write a book about "Gypsys" again, write a supplement centered around 9/11, and be profoundly sexist against women in the name of historical realism. At one point the PR Guy had to physically remove the microphone from his hand to stop him from shoving his entire foot into his mouth. People told Swedracula that he was being super scummy, they just didn't realize that's what he wanted all along. And paradox didn't directly intervene until he caused an international incident, so I'm not holding out hope that they care too much about their world of darkness license either beyond how it reflects upon them. I'll give Werewolf a shot because I'm basically contractually obligated to but if they gently caress that up they're kind of done.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 16:37
|
|
|
See I'm still laughing at the assumption that I have a problem with V5 and that's why I told Metapod to gently caress off and stay hosed. Metapod, v5 isn't the problem. You're the problem. gently caress off and stay hosed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 17:45
|
|
|
moths posted:V5's "mistakes" were a deliberate attempt to court customers, customers who would appreciate slaying gay nightclub goers, framing immigrants as a threat, normalizing pedophilia, and an oh so subtle 1488 reference. For context https://twitter.com/a_man_in_black/status/880092726078783489?s=20 E: Unless you have access to the books before they were updated to remove most of the toxic poo poo you'll have a hard time finding this stuff due to White Wolf scrubbing everything. Including the blog this screenshot came from. Wiccan Wasteland fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Feb 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 18:46
|
|
|
Also the big WoD documentary that shat all over the nWoD.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
How did Swedracula even get hired in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 19:53
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:How did Swedracula even get hired in the first place? If I recall correctly (and I may not, my memory is hazy and I was not following things as closely as some), Martin Ericsson was a personal friend of somebody high up in Paradox and was basically the main person pressuring the company to buy White Wolf and telling them it would be a great licensing farm so that he could relaunch the LARP scene he dreamed of.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 20:03
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Also the big WoD documentary that shat all over the nWoD. God what a loving disappointing waste of time that was. Pitch: A look back on one of the biggest names in the 90's table top world and it's influence on pop culture and the games they created. Execution: Swededracula fellating himself and the LARP scene as if he had a hand in anything of importance from the 90's, also Vampire was the only game WW made that was important at all (probably not completely untrue as far as sales)and NWOD was very bad and no one liked it and it never sold a copy ever. Waste of $3.99 for a rental.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 20:35
|
|
|
attention thread, i am no longer a Dark Sapiosexual, moving forward my orientation is nowElNarez posted:Profane HieroGamos
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 22:28
|
|
|
PHIZ KALIFA posted:attention thread, i am no longer a Dark Sapiosexual Is a dark sapiosexual someone who is only sexually attracted to Mencius Moldbug? That's a good move if so.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 22:38
|
|
|
I Am Just a Box posted:Is a dark sapiosexual someone who is only sexually attracted to Mencius Moldbug? That's a good move if so. I think that’s attraction to long words used imprecisely, because nothing I’ve ever read of Moldbug was even particularly clever (or readable).
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 22:53
|
|
|
Slimnoid posted:WoD was made, as many others have pointed out, from the (mostly) very narrow viewpoint of hetero white men coming from a middle-class background. They might've been considered "woke" for the 90s, but so was Joss Whedon, and both have aged like milk. Their attempts at progressiveness were made with what they knew at the time, but it's still coming from a confined understanding of race relations, gender, and non-conformity/alienation. The final product ended up coming from that viewpoint and lived experience, and it really shows. I don't really believe that the mistakes made at the time were done in ignorance. Rather, it was a lack of curiosity about being fully-informed on the matter, combined with a kind of casual arrogance that comes from being so self-assured in your own idea of progressiveness. And indeed, Marky Mark Rein*Hagen thinks he's still 'woke' by writing the same way he did back then and should be lauded for just mentioning black people. Didn't Swedracula want to do Charnel Houses 2E?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 23:03
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:And indeed, Marky Mark Rein*Hagen thinks he's still 'woke' by writing the same way he did back then and should be lauded for just mentioning black people. There's basically a 75% chance that Mr asterisk wrote the Chechnya chapter of Camarilla. But he doesn't want to own up to it and has vigorously tried to distance himself from the product ever since.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:There's basically a 75% chance that Mr asterisk wrote the Chechnya chapter of Camarilla. But he doesn't want to own up to it and has vigorously tried to distance himself from the product ever since. Well, vigorously tried to distance himself when it looked like it might actually have some sort of consequence for him. Both before and now again after the kerfuffle, he kept up his whole "I don't know what dashing and daring author wrote this, but they should be commended for their artistic vision" schtick. I can't really fault him for ducking for cover when it blew up, but his attempts to fellate himself over it again after the furor died down shows what a weasely piece of poo poo he is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2020 23:32
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:How did Swedracula even get hired in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2020 00:15
|
|
|
I Am Just a Box posted:Is a dark sapiosexual someone who is only sexually attracted to Mencius Moldbug? That's a good move if so. no i only want to gently caress shadows cast by brains suspended in vats of goo
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2020 04:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:53 |
|
|
(sees a brain suspended in a vat of fluid) ugh! no! garcon, remove this filth from my sight at once!
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2020 04:11
|
|