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ManBoyChef posted:Do you think the impeachment would have come out differently if the democratic leadership wasn't held by the wealthy donors? I'm sure they would be much more willing to burn biden. The actions of Joe and Hunter Biden have nothing to do with the crimes of Donald Trump. Getting either Biden on the stand would not magically get the GOP to acquiesce to witnesses especially since they are the majority in the Senate and could call the Bidens at any time. Stop falling for this.
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Feb 2, 2020 22:50
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Angry_Ed posted:The actions of Joe and Hunter Biden have nothing to do with the crimes of Donald Trump. Getting eitherof them on the stand would not magically get the GOP to acquiesce to witnesses especially since they are the majority in the Senate and could call the Bidens at any time. Stop falling for this they do have a lot to do with why now, and only now, were the democrats willing to consider impeachment, though "misplace" a thousand+ kids for the crime of their blood potentially tainting the nation-body with its foreignness, and they chuckle warmly about how people just don't understand political strategy. suggest that their fuckup kids might have to get real jobs, though, and the Gottheimers of the world suddenly understand the time has come to send Trump a message. how -DARE- Mr. President Donald With All Due Respect Trump, Sir, suddenly act like politics might have an impact on them.
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Feb 2, 2020 22:53
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Angry_Ed posted:The actions of Joe and Hunter Biden have nothing to do with the crimes of Donald Trump. Getting either Biden on the stand would not magically get the GOP to acquiesce to witnesses especially since they are the majority in the Senate and could call the Bidens at any time. Stop falling for this. yeah the only conclusion you can draw from the evidence we've seen is that 3 or more republicans didn't want either Biden to testify, so it didn't happen. romney was apparently directly advocating for biden-for-bolton trade, and he didn't win -- you didn't even hear it mentioned in the last couple days, they didn't want it. if it was ever on the table and the dems rejected it, every republican alive would be yelling about how THEY DIDN'T REALLY WANT WITNESSES!! right now
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Feb 2, 2020 22:53
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:they do have a lot to do with why now, and only now, were the democrats willing to consider impeachment, though Guys it's ok turns out blackmailing foreign governments to literally make up several lies out of whole cloth isn't a serious issue because it's smearing someone YMB doesn't like.
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Feb 2, 2020 22:57
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Angry_Ed posted:Guys it's ok turns out blackmailing foreign governments to literally make up several lies out of whole cloth isn't a serious issue because it's smearing someone YMB doesn't like. But have you considered that Biden is such a sterling candidate and master campaigner that the only way we can stop him in the primary is to join in with RWM conspiracy theories designed to take the heat off of Trump's crimes?
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Feb 2, 2020 23:10
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Chilichimp posted:It's not a TVIV thread, though? Maybe you should read Helsing's suggestion before jumping in to defend it. The OP posted:"During hearings, TVIVing is allowed itt" To me an example of a focused and high content thread would be Let's Read America Against America, not a TV IV style thread (which is explicitly what this is as per the OP) on a sprawling current event topic where the basic decision of where to draw the line of acceptable discussion is itself inherently political. eke out posted:there are four days left until impeachment is over. if you are unilaterally changing the rules of this months-old thread so you can post about how dems are bad, i obviously can't stop you. I've explained to you why I do not think it is sensible to silo this discussion. What you're asking for would be the equivalent of having a dedicated thread for the Benghazi hearings where posters weren't allowed to suggest that the hearings were part of a strategy to manage the attention and expectations of the Republican base. If you have your own thoughts on how we could keep this thread 'on topic' (as you define it) while somehow accommodating my concerns that you've set this up to be overly restrictive then please share them.
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Feb 2, 2020 23:18
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I mean, impeachment has failed, so it seems silly to limit this thread to breaking news when there won't be much more of that. I think it's more interesting to discuss how we got here. Why did establishment Dems and the media push Russiagate/Ukrainegate so hard? Why has "impeaching Donald Trump for being a treasonous Russian Agent" been the main line of attack against him ever since he took office? I think it's primarily been a distraction, a way to channel anger at Trump into a narrow issue that doesn't threaten the billionaires who control our economy. Like imagine if the CNN/ MSNBC headlines everyday were about our disaster of a private health insurance system, instead of nonstop Putin hysteria. Imagine if Pelosi held daily hearings about climate change, instead of about Trump threatening to not send Ukraine a bunch of money for bombs and stuff. Schumer and Pelosi and the rest of them don't support policies that the base of the party wants. They are not on our side. Not on my side anyway. But they get lionized because of this Russia stuff, instead of held to account for their lovely positions.
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Feb 2, 2020 23:20
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It is beyond dumb to make this thread about Dems are bad and the party is at fault. Everything shown so far is that with the hand they have been dealt they did great and have been blocked by the Whitehouse, and goo who are lockstep with our Cheeto in Chief. Making another thread into arguing again about the Democratic party is not conductive or about what's going on. Especially when there is more important things going on.
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Feb 2, 2020 23:29
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Everything shown so far is that with the hand they have been dealt they did great and have been blocked by the Whitehouse, and goo who are lockstep with our Cheeto in Chief. This.
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Feb 2, 2020 23:44
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Helsing posted:To me an example of a focused and high content thread would be Let's Read America Against America, not a TV IV style thread (which is explicitly what this is as per the OP) on a sprawling current event topic where the basic decision of where to draw the line of acceptable discussion is itself inherently political. The thread has been fine (successful even! An enjoyable and informative place to discuss impeachment news) for this long, why are you posting here all of a sudden trying to turn it into uspol v.2?
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Feb 2, 2020 23:53
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The Pussy Boss posted:impeachment has failed If the Dems can pick up a Senate seat or two out of this, it was extremely successful. And it's also successful already in that they did it at all. Democratic turnout could have been greatly depressed if the leadership went an entire presidential term without pushing back at all against the blatant criming.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:00
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And Dems voted in lockstep for everything. They are United and painted this as obvious abuse of power and bribery while the gop has done nothing and even stated yes he did it it doesn't matter. That's a bad imagine for the majority of the country.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:02
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ascii genitals posted:How about instead of 'you lie' we step it up and some Dem yells 'go gently caress yourself rapist'
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Feb 3, 2020 00:05
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My Twitter Account posted:Just boo him throughout. Make him actually remove people from the chamber. They should just rudely talk poo poo quietly enough that it's a murmur all through the speech.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:11
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Helsing posted:If you have your own thoughts on how we could keep this thread 'on topic' (as you define it) while somehow accommodating my concerns that you've set this up to be overly restrictive then please share them. This thread was posted on November 18th, impeachment ends on wednesday, and it will be closed then. It has an IK and was approved by other mods and has gone reasonably well, at least judging by the fairly minimal number of probes (and i think no bans?) that i'm aware of over the past three months. Change the rules: you're a mod, no one can stop you. But there can't be any "accommodations" because this obviously isn't a negotiation, it's you exercising top-down power in a thread you're uninvolved in and asking others to validate you for it.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:21
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My Twitter Account posted:Just boo him throughout. Make him actually remove people from the chamber. Laughing at him would be more effective. Boos make it partisan. Laughing is dismissive.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:23
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ManBoyChef posted:The ACA was a step in the right direction so small if you hosed a mouse with it she wouldn't feel anything. gross and weird
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Feb 3, 2020 00:31
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empty whippet box posted:gross and weird glad to help
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Feb 3, 2020 00:38
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I've enjoyed having this thread as a place to read focused news and analysis of the impeachment with a minimum of the nonstop depression spiral and shouting match that is uspol.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:40
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quote:ACA bad. I—like many, many people—literally couldn't purchase insurance before the ACA because of pre-existing conditions. The underwriters said there was literally no amount of money I could give them in order to get it. That changed after the ACA was enacted. I still very much want single-payer, but ACA for me was way better than pre-ACA.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:46
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eke out posted:This thread was posted on November 18th, impeachment ends on wednesday, and it will be closed then. It has an IK and was approved by other mods and has gone reasonably well, at least judging by the fairly minimal number of probes (and i think no bans?) that i'm aware of over the past three months. With the impeachment proceedings concluding is this not the logical time expand the scope of the discussion? Now that the main event is over it should be easier to evaluate things. In fact that's one reason I'm more interested in the discussion happening in this thread now than I would have been when the impeachment was ongoing - because what I'm curious about is how this bit of political theatre will influence other political issues. I have zero interest in TV IVing congressional hearings but I am very interested in talking about how impeachment matters politically. I'm also genuienly curious about what your justification would be for shutting this thread down as soon as the impeachment concludes? To me that feels like you're asking for D&D to be actively recreating the relentless churn of the 24/7 news cycle where everything is always a breaking story or new development and there's never any time to stop and actually think things through or have an extended discussion about anything. To me the primary advantage of a traditional forum vs. or twitter reddit is the possibility of sustaining longer form discussions on broad topics. If you disagree and are completely uninterested in even describing your different viewpoint because you think I'm beneath your contempt then yeah any dialogue is going to be difficult but I think the blame for that lies with you.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:53
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Literally during the impeachment proceedings the democrats have given trump:
Are there really people here that still don't think the impeachment was just kayfabe?
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Feb 3, 2020 00:59
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comedyblissoption posted:Literally during the impeachment proceedings the democrats have given trump: yes, because dunking on Trump's (obviousest) Crimes is both objectively morally good AND ALSO good for 2020 Panic! at Nabisco posted:I've enjoyed having this thread as a place to read focused news and analysis of the impeachment with a minimum of the nonstop depression spiral and shouting match that is uspol. Post-witness-vote excepted 
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Feb 3, 2020 01:04
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Helsing posted:With the impeachment proceedings concluding is this not the logical time expand the scope of the discussion? Now that the main event is over it should be easier to evaluate things. In fact that's one reason I'm more interested in the discussion happening in this thread now than I would have been when the impeachment was ongoing - because what I'm curious about is how this bit of political theatre will influence other political issues. I have zero interest in TV IVing congressional hearings but I am very interested in talking about how impeachment matters politically. I'm also genuienly curious about what your justification would be for shutting this thread down as soon as the impeachment concludes? To me that feels like you're asking for D&D to be actively recreating the relentless churn of the 24/7 news cycle where everything is always a breaking story or new development and there's never any time to stop and actually think things through or have an extended discussion about anything. To me the primary advantage of a traditional forum vs. or twitter reddit is the possibility of sustaining longer form discussions on broad topics. If you disagree and are completely uninterested in even describing your different viewpoint because you think I'm beneath your contempt then yeah any dialogue is going to be difficult but I think the blame for that lies with you. conversely, I'm not sure turning this into "USPOL, but more disappointed in Congressdems" is a particularly more valuable enterprise than just folding the discussion back into Normal USPOL. I think I'm on board with keeping it open at least a couple days after The Vote for postgame discussion, but if it's going to be a long term thing there should probably be a focus narrower than USPOL that sets it apart in some way. and I'm not entirely sure where to draw that line productively
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Feb 3, 2020 01:24
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It's a temporary thread. Moving your position from "I want the rules changed to accomodate my 'dems bad' posts" to "I want the rules changed to accomodate my 'dems bad' posts and also this temporary thread now exists indefinitely under my new rules" is not a compromise lol. You could just like, make a thread of your own if you're so passionate about this topic and think the interest is there, or post in USPOL (which is already having these discussions and will continue to). Or if this is just some weird power thing then go ahead, I guess, no one's stopping you. eke out fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 01:29
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Helsing posted:With the impeachment proceedings concluding is this not the logical time expand the scope of the discussion? Nope. I've been reading this thread since it started. Its narrow scope is precisely what I like about it, and why I think it has been a good source of information and perspective, with remarkably low levels of noise-posting. The actual logical thing is to close this one in four days and start a new one if you really want.
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Feb 3, 2020 01:35
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If this thread isn't about impeachment news going forward I guess I won't follow it anymore. Thanks Eke Out and GreyjoyBastard for your efforts, and I hope you keep posting any news updates in the main USPol thread.
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Feb 3, 2020 01:36
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ManBoyChef posted:The ACA was a step in the right direction so small if you hosed a mouse with it she wouldn't feel anything. A significant amount of people were able to stay alive because of it
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Feb 3, 2020 01:36
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Helsing posted:With the impeachment proceedings concluding is this not the logical time expand the scope of the discussion? Now that the main event is over it should be easier to evaluate things. In fact that's one reason I'm more interested in the discussion happening in this thread now than I would have been when the impeachment was ongoing - because what I'm curious about is how this bit of political theatre will influence other political issues. I have zero interest in TV IVing congressional hearings but I am very interested in talking about how impeachment matters politically. I'm also genuienly curious about what your justification would be for shutting this thread down as soon as the impeachment concludes? To me that feels like you're asking for D&D to be actively recreating the relentless churn of the 24/7 news cycle where everything is always a breaking story or new development and there's never any time to stop and actually think things through or have an extended discussion about anything. To me the primary advantage of a traditional forum vs. or twitter reddit is the possibility of sustaining longer form discussions on broad topics. If you disagree and are completely uninterested in even describing your different viewpoint because you think I'm beneath your contempt then yeah any dialogue is going to be difficult but I think the blame for that lies with you. how about you not do this in one of the best threads for actually being an on-point discussion of a current event with minimal derails?
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Feb 3, 2020 01:39
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Tibalt posted:If this thread isn't about impeachment news going forward I guess I won't follow it anymore. Thanks Eke Out and GreyjoyBastard for your efforts, and I hope you keep posting any news updates in the main USPol thread. I've expended almost zero effort lol, my reign of terror began relatively late in the thread's lifecycle (because McConnell is robbing us of an extended circus) edit: and also you people have been relatively well behaved since then, a spot of wailing and rending of garments notwithstanding, so really, the credit belongs to the posting proletariat Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 01:41
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Republican strategy: end the trial and quickly as possible, with nothing damning admitted into evidence Qult strategy: introduce Biden here, since Ukrain wouldn't do it for us - then push more fictional conspiracy nonsense seemingly 'qonfirmed.' Dem strategy: get real witnesses called, and real documents admitted into evidence - force GOP senators to acknowledge the established facts that make acquittal so absurd Bolton & Parnas: HEY WE HAVE RELEVANT CREDIBLE TESTIMONY THAT WOULD SERVE THE DEM STRATEGY Unsurprisingly, the republican majority figured their strategic interests were served by ensuring they could claim ignorance rather than malice. The GOP might have gone for witnesses if they had even a handful of credible folk from the administration ready to testify to a narrative where everything was on the up & up. But there simply aren't any, for multiple reasons. First, any of Trump's allies that are still loyal /and/ close enough to be relevant (in a way that rivals Bolton's relevance) - have zero credibility. Dox have already dropped that undermine their testimony, implicating them in conspiracy and making them either plead the 5th (is that even an option? but, of course, nobody can /make/ anybody talk...), admit to crimes, or demonstrably commit perjury. All of that makes the job harder on GOP senators. Second, there are clearly credible witnesses prepared to testify to the crimes - and their accounts must not be admitted into testimony lest we again leave people convinced of conspiracy, rather than ignorance. And finally, there's likely a fight within the GOP itself on whether or not to allow the Qult influence over their party's official narrative. Trump keeps all his little 'q proofs' on the dl, feigning alignment with the GOP on dominant narrative (even as a wave of qultists are running for congress) while feeding the conspiracy poo poo that the FBI has rightly identified as a threat to national security. The senators take themselves much more seriously, and want to be taken seriously, and so they want to keep the qult stuff distant from any of their public statements. Romney seems to resist the qulty stuff. And the biden stuff is qulty. And the qult is built on 'butter emails' and pizzagate. It's a massive disinformation campaign designed to create an alternative narrative- a weaponized ARG. People that believe the lies constructed with the sockpuppet 'Guccifer 2.0' overlap heavily with the ones that think Trump was legit investigating Biden's son for real corruption. And by now we have a good idea of which media outlets are infected with qultists. Fox News. OANN. Fulon Gong's media outlets. Sinclair. A bunch of social media sockpuppet armies. Brietbart. Infowars. Project Veritas. Wikileaks. Guccifer 2.0. We can identify individual journalists within papers of record. We can identify editors that allow that non-sense. And the one thing, the only thing the Chief Justice saw to, through this farce - was that the qult narrative not be injected by Rand Paul. edit: the Child Sex Trafficking thing. The Qult has been fixated on this very real social disgrace from the beginning. The Biden narrative is an outter narrative, the child sex trafficking is an inner narrative of this cult. And it's /always/ projection with this cult. And the people that crafted that inner narrative knew about the Epstein stuff. It was baked in. It's pointed to by qultists as a q-confirm. Trump keeps signalling to the qult that yes, he's really working hard fighting human trafficking (which to them is a dogwhistle meaning 'bringing justice to hillary for all the children she's literally murdered and eaten in a secret satanic ritual to get high'). It's always projection, and whoever engineered the qult knew all about epstein in advance - exploiting the reveals and influencing the overton window as events played out in real time. But this is all an aside, as the Senate wasn't gunna touch that poop for all the chambers in washington. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 01:59
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Helsing posted:With the impeachment proceedings concluding is this not the logical time expand the scope of the discussion? Now that the main event is over it should be easier to evaluate things. In fact that's one reason I'm more interested in the discussion happening in this thread now than I would have been when the impeachment was ongoing - because what I'm curious about is how this bit of political theatre will influence other political issues. I have zero interest in TV IVing congressional hearings but I am very interested in talking about how impeachment matters politically. I'm also genuienly curious about what your justification would be for shutting this thread down as soon as the impeachment concludes? To me that feels like you're asking for D&D to be actively recreating the relentless churn of the 24/7 news cycle where everything is always a breaking story or new development and there's never any time to stop and actually think things through or have an extended discussion about anything. To me the primary advantage of a traditional forum vs. or twitter reddit is the possibility of sustaining longer form discussions on broad topics. If you disagree and are completely uninterested in even describing your different viewpoint because you think I'm beneath your contempt then yeah any dialogue is going to be difficult but I think the blame for that lies with you. Everything you're calling for is already USPOL sections and is better served there rather then repeating ad infinum the same bullshit that goes on constantly in every thread deemed to be about how the dems suck and should have done this. This is a current events thread about impeachment and ending it when the impeachment is done makes more sense then making it then become WHAT CAN WE HAVE DONE WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN POWER TO MAKE MCTURTLE ACT IN GOOD FAITH!!!?????? Which is a waste of time and energy that will devolve into the same BS that every thread of the same topic becomes. People are here for concise news on impeachment and to know whats going on and not the politics of it like you want to discuss and disect to the smallest letter. Take yours and make your own thread if thats what you want and want it to be a rehash of DEMS BAD FOREVER BE MORE LEFTIST. The fact this had tight moderation and was close knit to the topic at hand is indicative that that's what people wanted not an endless chat thread of doomsayers.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:15
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I've expended almost zero effort lol, my reign of terror began relatively late in the thread's lifecycle (because McConnell is robbing us of an extended circus) The thread’s good content is mostly due to eke out tending to the thread and politely asking people to stop posting no-content or off-topic, so especially lol that Helsing jumps in after not paying attention to it for a month to poo poo on eke and insist that not enough people are complaining about the ACA here to allow this thread to stay open Edit: correcting autocorrect putting “admin” for asking, wtf skeleton warrior fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 02:19
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It’s weird to look at this thread and the work done by eke out in cultivating it and not consider it something to emulate.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:27
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skeleton warrior posted:The thread’s good content is mostly due to eke out tending to the thread and politely admin people to stop posting no-content or off-topic, so especially lol that Helsing jumps in after not paying attention to it for a month to poo poo on eke and insist that not enough people are complaining about the ACA here to allow this thread to stay open
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Feb 3, 2020 02:34
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mods making GBS threads our thread up
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Feb 3, 2020 02:38
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Eke Out did a great job keeping this thread focused on news and focused discussion (/rage). Weird passive-aggressive off-topic polchat is the last thing it needs, especially when there's at least three other threads where that exact "discussion" happens every single day.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:39
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Strange Poon posted:mods making GBS threads our thread up Just one mod, to be more accurate.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:45
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Helsing posted:With the impeachment proceedings concluding is this not the logical time expand the scope of the discussion? Now that the main event is over it should be easier to evaluate things. In fact that's one reason I'm more interested in the discussion happening in this thread now than I would have been when the impeachment was ongoing - because what I'm curious about is how this bit of political theatre will influence other political issues. I have zero interest in TV IVing congressional hearings but I am very interested in talking about how impeachment matters politically. I'm also genuienly curious about what your justification would be for shutting this thread down as soon as the impeachment concludes? To me that feels like you're asking for D&D to be actively recreating the relentless churn of the 24/7 news cycle where everything is always a breaking story or new development and there's never any time to stop and actually think things through or have an extended discussion about anything. To me the primary advantage of a traditional forum vs. or twitter reddit is the possibility of sustaining longer form discussions on broad topics. If you disagree and are completely uninterested in even describing your different viewpoint because you think I'm beneath your contempt then yeah any dialogue is going to be difficult but I think the blame for that lies with you. This is some real bad faith nonsense. Cmon man. Your job is to keep the peace, not stir poo poo up in threads. Like...re-opening a thread that was closed is kinda lovely.
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Feb 3, 2020 03:03
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I think the thread should have been kept open because there’s still stuff to talk about, but keeping the topic corralled to impeachment and it’s direct related topics is good. Am I crazy or isn’t one of the few forum rules “don’t close your own threads”?
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Feb 3, 2020 03:06
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