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As promised, my battle report from yesterday: Game Setup: Just like last week, we're at the 400 point level. Everyone counts as battleforged and gets 3 CP regardless of their actual makeup. I'm playing with a squad of eight intercessors, a grav captain, and a redemptor dreadnought. Game type was The Relic. My Narrative: Captain Incusator has won several key battles since he arrived on Herosand V. However, a clash with representatives from the Space Wolves contingent has left him stinging. Hoping to reverse this turn of fortune, he marches out seeking glory! Match 1: Adeptus Mechanicus Their Forces: Skitarii Rangers, Sicarian Infiltrators, Onager Dunecrawler, Kataphron Destroyers. quote:"This unit's sensors indicate large mass of forces, sir," said the hulking dreadnought. The wrath of Mars falls on the boys of iron! Unfortunately, I forgot to get pictures earlier in the match. I went first and moved my intercessors almost up to the relic. I fired onto his forces, but did relatively little damage, only taking out a few of his skitarii rangers. He rolled really well for his kataphron's shots, and it ended up shredding my intercessors. He deep striked some infiltrators in and took out the rest. I don't intend to put this in my blog post, since I don't want to stir up trouble in the shop, but I found out later that my opponent wasn't following the rules. He had mixed up the profiles of his infiltrator's weapons, giving him 40 shots with 3+ wound rolls and -3 AP (instead of 5+ wound rolls and no AP), staying in the same canticle the entire game, and having at least a few points over on points. He didn't have an actual list with him, just printouts of the datasheets for his units. I'm going to be charitable and assume this was all in error (he told me right at the start about the canticles; I think if he'd known it was against the rules he wouldn't have mentioned it at all). He also didn't know to deploy his deepstrikers first, which makes me think he's just not familiar with how the game works yet. I've let the store know so someone can sit down with him and go over his army's rules. Here, my opponent was extremely reasonable. I thought he had said he had managed to deal a number of mortal wounds to my captain, which would have left me with no infantry, and automatically losing the match (since I would have had no unit left capable of picking up the relic). We had started to put things away when he mentioned that he had only been rolling for something else entirely. He agreed to re-set-up. This allowed me to take out his infiltrators with a decent round of shooting and charging. Battered, but not defeated! Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do much to the rest of his army, and my captain was down to two wounds left. Kataphrons are ridiculously tough. He unleashed the rest of his army against my poor captain and dreadnought. The extra damage rangers get against vehicles hurt. Getting a bit more defeated here... Another round of shooting. I managed to take out one more ranger and two of the kataphrons, but it was pretty clear I wasn't going to be surviving the next round. I hadn't even touched the dunecrawler, and I had four wounds left between my two models. I probably should have asked for more terrain for the game. The lack of cover really hurt, and gave me few good options for moving around. I don't think I made any particularly egregious mistakes tactically. Possibly I should have focused more on his kataphrons more in the first round, but there wasn't anything I could do when he brought in the infiltrators. 40 shots into one unit is just not going to be very survivable. I perhaps could have used Auspex Scan, but with only 3 CP, I wasn't sure I wanted to blow two at once. Match 2: Eldar Their Forces: One Autarch, Wraith Guards, and Black Guardians with Shuriken Cannon quote:Captain Incusator sat cradling his helmet in his hands. "Where did we go wrong, Caminus?" The race for the relic! I chose to move and shoot my first turn, letting his black guardians get the relic first. I moved the dread into the ruins so to get a little bit of cover. Meanwhile, his wraith guard moved down the board and began shooting, pouring shots into my dreadnought. He used Doom and Guide to increase the effectiveness of his units, taking some of my intercessors out of the fight. He would have taken out my dreadnought, but I had decided to use Duty Eternal to halve the incoming damage. "It's over, Mon-Keighikan! I have the high ground!" He got his Autarch up on top of the terrain block to make him a little harder to get to, while letting him use his psychic abilities freely. A smite added some more damage into my dreadnought. However, I was able to charge up and deal some serious damage to his black guardians, while my captain charged into the wraith guard and took them out. "No! It's my barrel! You can't have it!" He got his last two black guardians up on top with his Autarch before I shot them out. However, he was able to take out my dreadnought. Happily, Reginald did not explode and kill us all. The Autarch grabbed the relic and moved to the far side of the terrain piece to await the final confrontation. "At him, boys! Pointy ends towards the enemy!" My intercessors and my captain moved up on top and then charged in. He fought gloriously, but futilely, and the battle was won. quote:"Feeling better, sir?" asked Sergeant Caminus. This concludes the 400 point part of the league. I'm currently 14th out of 72 players (though that's total sign-ups; not necessarily total playing). Next week, we'll move up to 600 points. I've painted up another seven intercessors (giving me three squads of five) and a primaris lieutenant. I'll also have more CP to play with, since we'll go to normal battleforged rules. JackMann fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Feb 3, 2020 |
# ? Feb 3, 2020 07:34 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:18 |
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Here's another dumb lore question that probably doesn't matter but it bugs me. Literally. The Tyranid Swarmlord is basically their Uber-Warrior, summoned up when things are so bad that only the biggest, meanest, smartest bug will do. On top of being 'the biggest, strongest bug the Hive Mind can put together, ever improving as it eats' and 'has independence so it can actually do leading things outside the usual Tyranid box', it says that the Swarmlord's other special trick is it has four arm-swords which are bones built around 'crystals from outside the galaxy'. And the Swarmlord doesn't travel around so much as it gets spawned whoever the Hive Mind is having trouble. So...how do these special crystals move around? I suppose you could say "The Tyranids know how to create them themselves and this is one of their great secrets that others would probably really like to know considering how powerful these swords are", but I just had this amusing image of the Tyranids having to Fed-Ex the swords across the galaxy every time they need a new Swarmlord.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 08:27 |
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Cornwind Evil posted:Here's another dumb lore question that probably doesn't matter but it bugs me. Literally. You are thinking about this harder than anyone who wrote it. I'll just go with a crystal matrix otherwise unknown in this galaxy that can only be created in special resource intensive conditions when the hive fleet see's fit. Like they've got to gestate an elaborate pressure forge and its a pain in the rear end but worth it for the swarmlord or whatever.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 09:18 |
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Cornwind Evil posted:Here's another dumb lore question that probably doesn't matter but it bugs me. Literally. The latter isn't inconceivable. The existence of named Tyranids like Old One-Eye implies that some tyranids could live on to travel on the hive ships to another planet because they're so useful or whatever. I mean, something has to make it from planet to planet. Its not really that crazy for them to just be like "make sure to collect those Swarmlord crystals from the acid-vats before we head to the next world" or whatever
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 09:27 |
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I'd assume the crystals are formed with the other poo poo in smaller amounts than regular chitin etc but I am no tyranologist. As in the nids came from somewhere and they're recycling their biomass at the end of a campaign, so they refund the swarmlord parts along with everything else.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 09:52 |
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Zaphod42 posted:The latter isn't inconceivable. The existence of named Tyranids like Old One-Eye implies that some tyranids could live on to travel on the hive ships to another planet because they're so useful or whatever. In the old fluff Old One Eye was a specific carinfex that was injured, but my understanding of the new fluff is that the theories are that its actually a sort of "template" as the original Old One Eye was super effective so when the Hive Fleet biomassed it, it sort of shares the template exactly and it can just be reproduced anywhere. That doesn't explain why there's only ever one of them and not just an army consisting of Old One Eye clones but its a step forward compared to explaining why both armies have the same Primarch or whatever.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 09:58 |
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Cornwind Evil posted:Here's another dumb lore question that probably doesn't matter but it bugs me. Literally. GoLambo posted:You are thinking about this harder than anyone who wrote it. This, and basically all Tyranid fluff is written from an Imperial perspective full of assumptions, inaccurate reports, & guesswork. Remember when Genestealers were 'native' to some random moon? It's all correct until inevitably proven wrong.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 10:02 |
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Growing a crystal is easy, any one with patience and the right conditions can do it.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 10:18 |
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Tyranid hive fleet biomass aka The Goop Lab
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 10:20 |
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So yesterday I played my first game using my Grey Knights since the new rules came out, I meant to take pictures to share with you guys here but got caught up in the game and forgot. The sides were Blood Angels and my Grey Knights at 1,500 points each: Blood Angels: Smash captain with power fist, Chaplain, squad of 5 scouts with sniper rifles, two squads of 5 scouts with combat knives, two furioso dreadnoughts with frag Cannons, two squads of 8 assault marines with a power axe sergeant and two meltaguns, and two stormravens with lascannons and multi meltas. Grey Knights: GM Dreadknight, Kaldor Draigo, Voldus, three 5 man Strike squads with halberds, two venerable dreadnoughts with lascannons and missiles, and 9 paladins (mix of swords and halberds) with the sergeant having a daemon hammer. I don't think his list is that competitive, but I was concerned about him bringing a stormraven and he brought two. I guess I was most worried about them, and if the assault marines were alive for the assault doctrine to activate. The mission we played was Cleanse and Sweep, because I wanted to use Tactical objectives but tried to keep it simple as I've only played a couple of 8e games and he's not played since 2015 or something. He deployed the assault marines, the captain/chaplain, and a dreadnought in each storm raven. Then deployed some scouts evenly spaced around the board. I deployed the Paladins in some ruins, alone with a strike squad (with gate of infinity), the two dreadnoughts, and Voldus in the corner in a group. Draigo, the GMDK, and two strike squads were held in reserve. He took first turn. I chose to start with Tides of Shadows. Voldus and Draigo had the new psychic discipline. quote:Turn 1 Overall while it was a fun game, I felt a bit bad for my friend. His list wasn't that competitive sure, and I was Grey Knights, but the Paladins are tough as nails now. He made some pretty big mistakes in the game (wasting one of his only three troops choices, not concentrating his forces in one place) and he had some really bad dice rolls. On the other hand while I did have some really good dice rolls, the game more or less sort of went to plan for me and I think that reflects in the fact that about a third of my army essentially didn't have to do much. I always wanted to have the Paladins shunted up the board somewhere to be an important threat free to move and fight on the turn the DK and Draigo came down. Taking Voldus was a good idea, as being able to change tides and gain a CP and still have a power to cast if someone goes for him was pretty awesome. I told my friend I think he sunk too many points into stormravens, and if he dropped one and a furioso it's basically 450 points he can spend on "other stuff". He's got tons of stuff somewhere so it's not like he can't field another 450 points of stuff, but it's all old so some of the newer stuff or things that are good now but weren't before he doesn't have. I felt the new GK stuff really gave extra tools to make some of the units really tough or do some real damage, and the new psychic powers are hot stuff. If I hadn't killed that stormraven I realised because it's an aircraft Voldus can actually move within 1" and blast it with Inner Fire. Draigo had the -1 to wound power and Inner Fire but never used either. I didn't get a huge amount of use from Tide of Shadows, but his wasn't a shooting army. I did get a lot of use from Tide of Escalation though. He is building a mechanics army though, and it will be fun to play against that as I've literally never played against them before. He's got a load of the forgeworld drill transports that look like they are from TMNT so if nothing else it will be a novel experience. Kitchner fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Feb 3, 2020 |
# ? Feb 3, 2020 11:07 |
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Kitchner posted:He is building a mechanics army though, and it will be fun to play against that as I've literally never played against them before. He's got a load of the forgeworld drill transports that look like they are from TMNT so if nothing else it will be a novel experience. I don't have any of those yet, but on paper they look very nasty. They dump a load of troops then kamikaze your heavy units and vehicles for potentially huge amounts of damage. If he's got a bunch you're gonna want to try to deny his deepstrikes or things will go real bad. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Feb 3, 2020 |
# ? Feb 3, 2020 11:10 |
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Lizard Combatant posted:I don't have any of those yet, but on paper they look very nasty. The dump a load of troops they kamikaze your heavy units and vehicles for potentially huge amounts of damage. If he's got a bunch you're gonna want to try to deny his deepstrikes or things will go real bad. Yeah, if I used my Guard I think the plan would be straight forward, just a ring of disposable guardsmen to deny him from coming out in the middle. With the Grey Knights I just don't have the numbers to effectively do that, so I'm not really sure what my plan will be until I see what he deploys on the table and who will end up going first. I think I'm tempted to follow a similar plan and concentrate the tough units in one place (paladins, DK, Draigo, a couple of strike squads) and have the dreadnoughts, Voldus, and a strike squad hang back rules and units, but more or less the armies play similar to how they always played. Whereas Ad Mech came out after I stopped so I have no idea what they are like to play against, so I'll need to read up on stuff. Edit: lol I just looked up those drills, they have a WS of 4+ and get 6 attacks at strength 7 -4 AP in combat, and if you're still alive they wound you on a 2+ you suffer a mortal wound, and if you're still alive they deal another mortal wound on 3+ and so on. gently caress, I am sure he has like 4 of those. Kitchner fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Feb 3, 2020 |
# ? Feb 3, 2020 11:21 |
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Kitchner posted:Yeah, if I used my Guard I think the plan would be straight forward, just a ring of disposable guardsmen to deny him from coming out in the middle. With the Grey Knights I just don't have the numbers to effectively do that, so I'm not really sure what my plan will be until I see what he deploys on the table and who will end up going first. I think I'm tempted to follow a similar plan and concentrate the tough units in one place (paladins, DK, Draigo, a couple of strike squads) and have the dreadnoughts, Voldus, and a strike squad hang back. Really good shooting and saves. Only a few good melee options and no psykers at all. Goonham has a neat guide for playing as them you can just reverse engineer.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 11:24 |
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That blood angel list was pretty bad, just saying.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 11:28 |
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DiHK posted:That blood angel list was pretty bad, just saying. Yeah I know, I did tell him that I think he's missing a lot of their good units, and way too many points sunk in stormravens. I think it's a list similar to what he used to use and enjoyed in previous editions rather than super competitive.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 11:45 |
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I finished up a Mawloc, they have a lot of pokey bits.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 13:47 |
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What stage is your overall tyranid army at now? It feels like you've not been working on it for that long but you've posted a whole bunch of cool stuff.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 13:56 |
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R0ckfish posted:I finished up a Mawloc, they have a lot of pokey bits. This looks great! Keep posting your tyranids.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 14:50 |
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Makes me want some nids. Is there a viable big bug only list like knights? Not a deal killer if not, I'd be happy just painting them. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Feb 3, 2020 |
# ? Feb 3, 2020 14:53 |
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Lizard Combatant posted:Makes me want some nids. Is there a big bug only viable list? Nidzilla is pretty alive and well, especially with the hit to hordes generally with the prevalence of boltguns nowadays. Typically you’ll see Ripper Swarms as Troops to get Batallions (they’re useful also), but you can get away with some pretty vicious melee and shooting that withstands most shooting lists pretty well. Adaptive Physiology really helps out, as Murderous Size and Dermic Symbiosis are both great options to increase punch or lifespan. I got in a game this weekend against an Ultramarines player and big bugs ate his lunch. Two Exocrines killed more than half his army in a 1500pt game, as S7 AP-3 D2 (optionally 3) shooting is just brutal to Primaris models. I rolled fire on a Symbiostorm’d Exo and did 33 damage to an Invictor. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 3, 2020 |
# ? Feb 3, 2020 15:00 |
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PierreTheMime posted:Nidzilla is pretty alive and well, especially with the hit to hordes generally with the prevalence of boltguns nowadays. Typically you’ll see Ripper Swarms as Troops to get Batallions (they’re useful also), but you can get away with some pretty vicious melee and shooting that withstands most shooting lists pretty well. ...! I will go look up what all this means, thanks!
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 15:03 |
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I did a Nidzilla list last night to try out custom hive fleet traits (picked free regen and +1 to hit in melee). It was a lot of fun. The highlight was Mortartion charging my Hierodule, narrowly fail to kill it, then he got counter-charged & killed by a Haruspex and exploded to take the last two wounds off the Hierodule anyway. The big frustration of Nidzilla is still random damage though. That Haruspex did like 12 damage to Mortarion, then on the following turn charged a random cheap character and landed just three wounds.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 15:20 |
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xtothez posted:I did a Nidzilla list last night to try out custom hive fleet traits (picked free regen and +1 to hit in melee). It was a lot of fun. The highlight was Mortartion charging my Hierodule, narrowly fail to kill it, then he got counter-charged & killed by a Haruspex and exploded to take the last two wounds off the Hierodule anyway. Yeah, death to d3 and d6 weapons. It’s the reason I value flat damage over “better” weapons most of the time. Those 1s to wound will pop up when you need them least. I really like the idea of custom fleets for aggressive monsters but I’m too spoiled on Kraken recharges and speed to leave my comfort zone.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 15:23 |
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Kitchner posted:What stage is your overall tyranid army at now? It feels like you've not been working on it for that long but you've posted a whole bunch of cool stuff. This is my second round of painting Nids, and do far I have ~5k of assorted bugs.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 15:24 |
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I was actually thinking of painting up a mostly weathered army of chaos generics with a bit of pastel blue like old fridges from the 60s but beat to poo poo. Have a logo that implies "for hire" on the side. Like the generic rental dred you get from home depot for the afternoon. "Dread not, Burts affordable warengine rentals call 1 253 642 356 643 3573." I have a few chaos armies and don't want to buy the same model for each army... but would like the option. Do people do this? I tried googling for other options of non-specific color schemes or ideas for generalizing units and given the cost of these things I thought I'd find more.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 15:51 |
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Harvey Mantaco posted:I was actually thinking of painting up a mostly weathered army of chaos generics with a bit of pastel blue like old fridges from the 60s but beat to poo poo. Have a logo that implies "for hire" on the side. Like the generic rental dred you get from home depot for the afternoon. Personally I think this idea is great. I’d like to see the outcome.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 16:03 |
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R0ckfish posted:This is my second round of painting Nids, and do far I have ~5k of assorted bugs. Man I'd love to do a big game vs that much nids. There's just something about them that makes fighting a huge hoarde super cool, even more so than orks.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 16:16 |
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Kitchner posted:In the old fluff Old One Eye was a specific carinfex that was injured, but my understanding of the new fluff is that the theories are that its actually a sort of "template" as the original Old One Eye was super effective so when the Hive Fleet biomassed it, it sort of shares the template exactly and it can just be reproduced anywhere. That doesn't explain why there's only ever one of them and not just an army consisting of Old One Eye clones but its a step forward compared to explaining why both armies have the same Primarch or whatever. Yeah at that point old one eye is just a new tyranid form like a carnifex then, there should be dozens on each world
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 16:42 |
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The Hive Mind ultimately falls back to evolutionary pressures, but doesn't probe into the how or why a given adaptation is/was successful. All it cares about is that X was successful in Y circumstances, and that if Y circumstances come up again then X should be employed. This is why until recently things like Zoanthropes and Neurothropes were only deployed if defending Imperium forces had psykers. There's a line in Blood of Baal that those units appearing independent of Imperium psykers across the battlefield is a Big Deal. Old One Eye was massively successful when there was only one of them, ergo one of them is the most successful number to deploy.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 17:34 |
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I was actually going to suggest that until I realised the same logic means eventually through random mutation a battle would see Old One Eyes deployed accidentally and then it would learn you can just copy paste.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 17:40 |
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Now I want to read a story about a race/army intentionally steering Tyranid evolution down some weird winding specialization path until they're in a crazy dead end and then abruptly reversing tactics and wiping them all out before they can reset. I mean, that probably wouldn't happen quite that way, but it's amusing to think of Tyranids being vulnerable to the same stuff that trips machine learning stuff.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 17:42 |
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Ashcans posted:Now I want to read a story about a race/army intentionally steering Tyranid evolution down some weird winding specialization path until they're in a crazy dead end and then abruptly reversing tactics and wiping them all out before they can reset. I mean, that probably wouldn't happen quite that way, but it's amusing to think of Tyranids being vulnerable to the same stuff that trips machine learning stuff. I really hope we get an additional story down the line where they try the same thing and get stomped because the Hive Mind learned its lesson and made it look like that's all it was doing and then a million Trygons/Mawlocs/Raveners spill forth underneath a momentarily embarrassed company commander.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 17:47 |
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Ashcans posted:Tyranids being vulnerable to the same stuff that trips machine learning stuff. Tyranids but everything is a melting dog face
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:05 |
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Ashcans posted:Now I want to read a story about a race/army intentionally steering Tyranid evolution down some weird winding specialization path until they're in a crazy dead end and then abruptly reversing tactics and wiping them all out before they can reset. I mean, that probably wouldn't happen quite that way, but it's amusing to think of Tyranids being vulnerable to the same stuff that trips machine learning stuff. This is a really idea cool but it assumes the non-Tyranid force has the upper hand or is able to sustain a stalemate for a long period of time, doesn’t seem very likely given the desperation that tends to come with encounters with Hive Fleets...
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:11 |
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Ashcans posted:Now I want to read a story about a race/army intentionally steering Tyranid evolution down some weird winding specialization path until they're in a crazy dead end and then abruptly reversing tactics and wiping them all out before they can reset. I mean, that probably wouldn't happen quite that way, but it's amusing to think of Tyranids being vulnerable to the same stuff that trips machine learning stuff. So basically Starcraft?
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:14 |
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ineptmule posted:This is a really idea cool but it assumes the non-Tyranid force has the upper hand or is able to sustain a stalemate for a long period of time, doesn’t seem very likely given the desperation that tends to come with encounters with Hive Fleets... Could happen with a genestealer infestation? They get sent to infiltrate a planet, for some reason due to a space battle or something the hive fleet takes off and never actually lands on that planet. The local forces manage to contain the genestealers and begin expirimenting on them.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:15 |
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Ashcans posted:Now I want to read a story about a race/army intentionally steering Tyranid evolution down some weird winding specialization path until they're in a crazy dead end and then abruptly reversing tactics and wiping them all out before they can reset. I mean, that probably wouldn't happen quite that way, but it's amusing to think of Tyranids being vulnerable to the same stuff that trips machine learning stuff. Fairly certain there was a story where Tau did exactly that. They kept feeding Kroot into the swarm until it switched from gaunts to bigger monsters, and then brought up the railguns and went ham, then switched back as soon as the Tyranids caught on.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:25 |
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ANAmal.net posted:Fairly certain there was a story where Tau did exactly that. They kept feeding Kroot into the swarm until it switched from gaunts to bigger monsters, and then brought up the railguns and went ham, then switched back as soon as the Tyranids caught on. Yeah I was going to say one of the old fluff stories was basically about how when the Tyranids invaded one of the T'au planets the tau T'au did what they did best and kept adapting and evolving their tactics, while the Tyranid creates evolved just as quickly meaning they soon hit a stalemate, which both sides trying to rock, paper, scissors their selves to victory. I'm glad the new PA book focuses on the T'au being like an insidious threat to Imperial planets not just the fact they can blow poo poo up. Makes imperial senior military types think that offering food and decent living standards is somehow not playing fair.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:32 |
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Ashcans posted:Now I want to read a story about a race/army intentionally steering Tyranid evolution down some weird winding specialization path until they're in a crazy dead end and then abruptly reversing tactics and wiping them all out before they can reset. I mean, that probably wouldn't happen quite that way, but it's amusing to think of Tyranids being vulnerable to the same stuff that trips machine learning stuff. Exactly this scenario happened with the T'au. They got the hive fleet to start producing more small creatures and less big synapse creatures before abruptly focusing on those synapse creatures and letting the swarm eat itself once they were all destroyed.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:35 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:18 |
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Zaphod42 posted:Could happen with a genestealer infestation? Pretty sure that's a sub-plot of a Ciaphas Cain book where mechanicus dudes are experimenting on genestealers and it ends poorly.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 18:37 |