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Ok, just getting up and haven't had coffee. What's the Cliff's notes version of this clusterfuck?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:44
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mr whistler posted:I don't understand why everyone is going so conspirtard. The democrats are the least organized most incompetent party in the history of the universe. Why explain this by an 11 dimensional conspiracy when plain old extremely normal democratic incompetence explains it. your post being perfectly sandwiched between two slices of utter dismantlement of your argument is art. BigBallChunkyTime posted:Ok, just getting up and haven't had coffee. What's the Cliff's notes version of this clusterfuck?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I can't think of anything a caucus accomplishes that isn't accomplished better by an instant runoff voting system. Still, the problem tonight wasn't caucus, it was app. The app is being given a go, at least in my state, in response to criticism that the caucus populace tends old retirees and workers from one industry that have on-site caucuses. So, the app's existence is due to how poo poo the caucus fundamentally is. Like they're rolling the app out at various libraries and high schools in the week before the traditional caucus because previously, if you couldn't show up then, you were hosed. BigBallChunkyTime posted:Ok, just getting up and haven't had coffee. What's the Cliff's notes version of this clusterfuck? Apparently there was a technical malfunction for this virtual caucus app some states are using, fortunately it uses a paper trail so they're hand counting it but in the meantime people are noticing that people from the firm that made it have connections in the Pete campaign.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:45
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Captain Invictus posted:your post being perfectly sandwiched between two slices of utter dismantlement of your argument is art. ...a bunch of links to Democratic incompetence demolishes my point. Ok.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:47
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mr whistler posted:I don't understand why everyone is going so conspirtard. The democrats are the least organized most incompetent party in the history of the universe. Why explain this by an 11 dimensional conspiracy when plain old extremely normal democratic incompetence explains it. Because the DNC has absolutely no benefit of the doubt left, so the rational choice is to assume the worst. Also it must be made clear that nothing that even seems the least bit shady will be tolerated since that will disincentivize any future attempts at ratfucking.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:47
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You don't have to go full conspiracy to acknowledge that the app's developers have, on top of extreme incompetence, a clear and huge conflict of interest that absolutely shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:47
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mr whistler posted:...a bunch of links to Democratic incompetence demolishes my point. Ok. are we calling blatant rigging incompetence now
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Feb 4, 2020 13:48
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Captain Invictus posted:butt is bad and acting extremely suspiciously and the people who made the app that hosed up everything are directly connected to him, and bernie probably won very handily but they're doing their best to ratfuck it it looks like I actually like Bernie but goddamn why does everything that is even possibly slightly negatively bad for him a massive illuminati conspiracy on here.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:49
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mr whistler posted:It's not fuckery, it's just plain old incompetence. Why is everything have to be a conspiracy? Democrats and America are poo poo at doing elections, have been for the last 200 years. I'm still leaning towards incompetence as well but will wait for the Iowa results before reserving judgement one way or another. I can understand the frustration though, this is making me frustrated as hell and I have no stake in this whatsoever.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:49
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What's even dumber than seeing conspiracies everywhere is this dogged insistence that conspiracies actually don't happen so we need to ignore any possible ones out of hand.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:50
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Captain Invictus posted:are we calling blatant rigging incompetence now I guess its technically correct, if it was competent rigging it wouldn't be blatant.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:50
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mr whistler posted:I actually like Bernie but goddamn why does everything that is even possibly slightly negatively bad for him a massive illuminati conspiracy on here. the establishment dems absolutely under no circumstances want someone like sanders to win. they do not deserve and have not earned the benefit of the doubt.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:50
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https://twitter.com/Velokx/status/1224594554923282432
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Feb 4, 2020 13:51
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Guildencrantz posted:You don't have to go full conspiracy to acknowledge that the app's developers have, on top of extreme incompetence, a clear and huge conflict of interest that absolutely shouldn't have been allowed to happen. That conflict of interest being?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:51
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Captain Invictus posted:are we calling blatant rigging incompetence now "Blatant rigging" apparently means a bunch of incompetent secretaries of state who don't keep voter rolls up to date? The fix is in! Government bureaucrats can't keep voter databases updated accurately.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:52
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mr whistler posted:It's not fuckery, it's just plain old incompetence. Why is everything have to be a conspiracy? Democrats and America are poo poo at doing elections, have been for the last 200 years. That's a solid argument to be made, but were talking about subjective things here, Were is the line between incompetence and fraud? Everything doesn't have to be a conspiracy, but pretending that nothing can be is disingenuous. There is a solid and reasoned appeal to be made that fraud is occurring in our political system. There is also a reason to believe it is just incompetence. The reason I think it's fraud, is because the same thing happened four years ago. It damaged the Democratic party's chance to win the 2016 election, and this will likely damage the 2020 election also unless it is addressed and remedied.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:52
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mr whistler posted:I actually like Bernie but goddamn why does everything that is even possibly slightly negatively bad for him a massive illuminati conspiracy on here.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:53
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Scooter_McCabe posted:That conflict of interest being? Some of them voted for Clinton! QED, conspiracy. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 4, 2020 13:54
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mr whistler posted:"Blatant rigging" apparently means a bunch of incompetent secretaries of state who don't keep voter rolls up to date? It’s funny how bureaucratic incompetence only ever seems to punch left.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:54
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Guildencrantz posted:You don't have to go full conspiracy to acknowledge that the app's developers have, on top of extreme incompetence, a clear and huge conflict of interest that absolutely shouldn't have been allowed to happen. We still don't know what actually happened. mr whistler posted:I actually like Bernie but goddamn why does everything that is even possibly slightly negatively bad for him a massive illuminati conspiracy on here. I don't know if it's so much illuminati, the parties are increasingly making their own in-house tech firms, and the people who are likely to run them have been "in the trenches" of past campaigns. The only conspiracy like thing is that people jump to conclusions and assume that anyone who had anything to do with Obama 2008 (which, face it, kind of produced the modern online campaign blueprint) was personally directing him to sign lovely legislation and asking if they could push the button to drone-strike someone, and would kill their mother to stop Bernie. Part of the reason they do this, I'm guessing, is that big tech companies who know what they're doing don't want to take on the possible liability of a hosed up election.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:54
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Slugworth posted:I'm on the fence between incompetence and malice, but you've gotta be aggressively, actively obtuse not to at least get why "for the first time literally ever, we don't have same night results, and it happens to coincide with the use of an app funded in part by the guy that is outperforming expectations" is suspicious. He didn't pay for the app. He used some of their software for text banking. The company sells more than one product.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:56
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VH4Ever posted:Caucuses are stupid, they waste time, and are tilted in a way that excludes the poor/working classes. Just have a loving vote like everybody else. A caucus strikes me as something that went out of date since the telegraph was invented. This: I worked in restaurants. No freaking cook or waitress is going to end up being included in this and that just freaking sucks. What about strippers? They have political ideals too.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:56
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Why are the Sanders and Pete campaigns the only ones with internal numbers? Is it not typical to do so?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:56
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Insanite posted:It’s funny how bureaucratic incompetence only ever seems to punch left. The only reason Bernie can fail is if the global conspiracy is out to get him, is that the line on here?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:56
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mr whistler posted:"Blatant rigging" apparently means a bunch of incompetent secretaries of state who don't keep voter rolls up to date? mr whistler posted:Some of them voted for Clinton! QED, conspiracy. mr whistler posted:He didn't pay for the app. He used some of their software for text banking. The company sells more than one product. You seem extremely insistent on defending Cheaty Pete's e-honor for some reason. How come?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:57
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Butt would have gotten away with it too if he hadn't lathered icing on the cake in the form of his extremely premature declaration of victory with 0% of precincts reported. He's getting deservedly dragged through the mud for it, and I get the feeling if he had just shut up or at least made a generic statement like the other campaigns did, we'd all be much farther up the conspiracy theory creek.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:57
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Carew posted:Why are the Sanders and Pete campaigns the only ones with internal numbers? Is it not typical to do so? The Sanders campaign probably sensed some potential fuckery and kept their own numbers. No idea about Buttigieg.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:57
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Cerebral Bore posted:You seem extremely insistent on defending Cheaty Pete's e-honor for some reason. How come? I don't even like Pete. I'm not voting for him. I just think conspiracy theories are dumb.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:57
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mr whistler posted:I don't even like Pete. I'm not voting for him. I just think conspiracy theories are dumb. As opposed to completely ignoring possible vote rigging. That sure is the smart thing to do. A real winning move.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:58
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How the gently caress do we know exactly as much as we did when I went to sleep? Good lord Iowa/Dems
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Feb 4, 2020 13:59
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lmao I wake up at 3 AM and see Pete went full rat mode.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:59
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Cerebral Bore posted:As opposed to completely ignoring possible vote rigging. That sure is the smart thing to do. A real winning move. If there is any ACTUAL evidence of vote rigging in Iowa rather than innuendo and six degrees of Hillary Clinton bullshit, let me know.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:59
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CyberPingu posted:I find it amazing that you don't just have what the UK does and have paper ballots and counters policed by actual police and have reporters and party reps in the counting areas to make sure no poo poo goes on. How does that siphon money to party insiders though? Seems you haven't thought this through very well.
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Feb 4, 2020 14:00
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regardless of what happened here (which is at the least a bunch of cronies getting an important contract for which they were clearly unqualified), mayo pete claiming victory is insanely dodgy and *at best* an attempt at misdirection with insufficient information. the thing here is that, if the samders campaign's released numbers reflect reality, obfuscation and chaos are very convenient for the establishment types who commissioned the app and for the other establishment people who made the app - there's plausible deniability, sure, but the sheer level of convenience combined with the utter opportunism of the candidate lends itself well to conspiratorial thinking. even in the best case here (an incompentent outfit gets an important contract through their connections) it's super shady, and it looks pretty much exactly how an actual rigging attempt might look
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Feb 4, 2020 14:00
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mr whistler posted:I don't even like Pete. I'm not voting for him. I just think conspiracy theories and Cerebral Bore are dumb. You're not wrong.
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Feb 4, 2020 14:00
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Carew posted:Why are the Sanders and Pete campaigns the only ones with internal numbers? Is it not typical to do so? I'm sure the Biden Campaign has numbers and is doing everything it can to whistle loudly while standing in front of them trying to act like everything's cool and there's nothing to see here.
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Feb 4, 2020 14:01
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There's absolutely no way Pete won the caucus why give a victory speech and tweet that poo poo out loll
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Feb 4, 2020 14:01
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mortons stork posted:Is Buttigieg the Smiler from Transmetropolitan, by any chance? Either that or a full-grown Martin Prince. e: lol https://twitter.com/business/status/1224564602442338304 Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Feb 4, 2020 |
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Feb 4, 2020 14:02
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I have to say that chances are it is incompetence. Yes the stakes are high and yes we have all been hoping for this moment and wishing for sanders to win but we have to accept that it may not happen. This is hellworld after all.
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Feb 4, 2020 14:02
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mr whistler posted:If there is any ACTUAL evidence of vote rigging in Iowa rather than innuendo and six degrees of Hillary Clinton bullshit, let me know. Bro, pages of it. Literally pages. I posted four sources for you, with explanations and ramifications. Your kidding right? Is the evidence conclusive? Has it been solved beyond a rational doubt, No it hasn't and likely never will. Doesn't mean everybody needs to ignore it and pretend nothing happened.
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Feb 4, 2020 14:02
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