UKMT February 2020 - horny for shepherdess feet

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT February 2020 - horny for shepherdess feet

Borrovan: Aug 15, 2013; IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY

lmao I know that's just 2 points in a bigger list of cherrypicked strawpersons, but opening with those 2 is pretty :discourse:

, since the party literally had a constitutional commitment to bringing the means of production into common ownership until 1995 :wtc:

e: the Labour Party was 21 years old in 2016, not one year old like the loony left seem to think

Borrovan fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Feb 4, 2020

# ? Feb 4, 2020 15:20

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# ? May 24, 2024 19:07

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

?????

https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1224661448007262215?s=19

https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1224692618749194240?s=19

https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1224693519274643456?s=19

I don't think this lad knows the first thing about rudimentary socialist analysis, lmao

# ? Feb 4, 2020 15:24

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

ThomasPaine posted:

Shaun Lawson has been melting down for like 2 days straight lol

https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1224650087508389889?s=19

I like how "the Labour Party has a long and varied past" is one of those things that sounds perfectly reasonable, but in the context of a twitter list, you just know theres gonna be some madness later on.

Edit :and there it is. Jesus Christ.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 15:31

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Extreme "gently caress gently caress gently caress it's due in this afternoon I need 200 more words to hit the word count" energy coming off those last few tweets.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 15:35

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Borrovan posted:

imo "white boys on free school meals achieve lower GCSE grades at schools" only becomes meaningful in any real sense when that's translated into actual lifetime achievement.

Like, there's a big debate in certain law schools atm about the Athena SWAN equality thingy: to qualify for this equality certification thing, you need to shoot for a 50/50 gender balance in your undergraduates. At present, it's about 2/1 girls/boys, so the push is to try and attract more boys. A lot of us think that this is loving stupid, because the top of the legal profession is still overwhelmingly male, so trying to attract more boys before that's fixed is actively regressive. Of course, there's necessarily a time delay on measuring the correct metric, but there's no indication that we've actually fixed inequality now & this current generation of girls are gonna implement matriarchy, and I would view anyone claiming that there is with extreme suspicion.

That's looking at two separate things though, entry and internal inequality. If you have a sector where 90% of people within it are women and the top 10% of earners are mostly men then you have two vectors of inequality there, and should strive to get more boys involved and to equalize pay, otherwise you're at risk of just doing the more women guards clap emoji thing. Intersection is a thing that exists too, so like if you're looking to bring in more boys then look at BAME and GBT and FSM boys. They're certainly over-represented in other areas of the legal system of our fine country, so it could be a good vector for addressing that.

Borrovan posted:

"White boys on free school meals" is such a weirdly specific metric though that it's hard to know what the proper comparison should be: white girls on FSM, BAME boys on FSM, white boys not on FSM, overall average, idfk. No statistician here but I guess for it to be really meaningful you'd have to do a shittonne more comparisons: white kids already perform a bit worse than average anyway, boys already perform worse than girls, and students qualifying for FSM do wayyyy worse than rich kids, but only the last one of these is actually a problem because white people and men go on to achieve more anyway, so why the hell would we want to give them any more advantage?!

That's why it needs to be an intersectional analysis. You don't need to throw other people under the bus to say "this group are under-performing, let's find out why." I'd say that the free school meals bit is probably the most important of them, because there's not much ethnic group variance between non-FSM kids.

Borrovan posted:

So, I guess the first question is, is there something specific to that particular combination of gender/race/income factors that makes it anything more than a combination of the recognised effects of its constituent parts - and, if so, does this actually translate into higher overall achievement, or is it a total nonissue because it's more-than balanced out by all the loving racism & sexism?

Kinda JAQing off here since I genuinely have no clue whether there is something specific to that particular combination of factors, but considering how often it's cited by racists to shoot down actual equality measures and that it measures the wrong loving metric anyway I'd need a lot more evidence before accepting it as a real problem.

That's assuming that low educational achievement is okay as long as it's later balanced out by privilege or lifetime achievement. But low education achievement is also linked with prejudice, so that might end up becoming "it's okay that they're a racist prick who thinks that they got where they were by hard work when in fact their uncle gave them a job, because at least their uncle gave them a job." That's far from ideal in my book, and education is a good in and of itself outside of lifetime achievement.

ThomasPaine posted:

https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1224692618749194240?s=19

If idpol is bad and class reductionism is bad then how are we supposed to do social level analysis to improve ohhhh he doesn't want to improve anything.

OwlFancier posted:

Extreme "gently caress gently caress gently caress it's due in this afternoon I need 200 more words to hit the word count" energy coming off those last few tweets.

If you write 100 reasons why socialism is bad then Jeff Bezos gives you an Amazon voucher for free shipping.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 15:39

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Nothing like looking at the Labour Party memberships responses to the GE to really get why independent socialist organising/vanguardism is necessary lol.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 15:57

Borrovan: Aug 15, 2013; IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY

Guavanaut posted:

That's looking at two separate things though, entry and internal inequality. If you have a sector where 90% of people within it are women and the top 10% of earners are mostly men then you have two vectors of inequality there, and should strive to get more boys involved and to equalize pay,

I'm not sure they really can (or rather, usefully should) be separated though: more women going into the legal profession means more women succeeding, which means (a)more role models bringing in yet more high-ability women, (b)more women setting policy, probably in a more gender-equal way, and (c)more women noticing that the men are earning a lot more than them, and potentially doing something about it (tangentially related, there's a lawyers' union now!). So we've now got one inequality problem to deal with, rather than two - and, considering there's almost certainly some relationship between fewer men going into law and patriarchy also hurting men (can't be one of the lads if you're a law nerd, after all), disrupting patriarchal norms probably helps solve the second one rather than exacerbating it.

Also I think in the legal profession you could probably make the entry difference disappear by redefining "entry": the typical legal career consists of basically doing a solicitor's job on a supermarket cashier's salary for a few years then burning out and doing something else, never being allowed into the boys' club. imo that barely really count as "entry", and it's overwhelmingly young women doing that.

Guavanaut posted:

But low education achievement is also linked with prejudice, so that might end up becoming "it's okay that they're a racist prick who thinks that they got where they were by hard work when in fact their uncle gave them a job, because at least their uncle gave them a job." That's far from ideal in my book, and education is a good in and of itself outside of lifetime achievement.

Yeah agreed, but as long as there's no actual material disadvantage to white boys there's no need to specifically target them when the greater benefit is served by encouraging education across the board. The problem with your example is the being a racist prick, not the GCSE results, so if we can encourage them to not be a racist prick by better education whilst also helping girls & BAME kids overcome income inquality we should do that instead.

Also agreed: the rest of your post

# ? Feb 4, 2020 16:05

BizarroAzrael: Apr 6, 2006; "That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

The Labour party is a land of contrasts.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 16:18

Comrade Fakename: Feb 13, 2012

RLB's on Novara media this evening apparently.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 16:26

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Borrovan posted:

Yeah agreed, but as long as there's no actual material disadvantage to white boys there's no need to specifically target them when the greater benefit is served by encouraging education across the board. The problem with your example is the being a racist prick, not the GCSE results, so if we can encourage them to not be a racist prick by better education whilst also helping girls & BAME kids overcome income inquality we should do that instead.

I think the figures do seem to show that some people are less engaged with education than others. Kids on free school meals especially, but that just makes me think of Paulo Freire, "I didn't understand anything because of my hunger. I wasn't dumb. It wasn't lack of interest. My social condition didn't allow me to have an education. Experience showed me once again the relationship between social class and knowledge." A decade of austerity has brought this home, and needs addressing through multiple factors outside of just education.

Then there's gender, girls seem to be more engaged than boys across all groups. That doesn't mean abandoning girls or privileging boys, but it does mean that it needs to be addressed somehow. This is one of those cases where the boys that do succeed might well have significantly better lifetime achievement than the girls that do succeed, but what of the left behinds, and the social cost of that?

Thirdly there's the ethnicity bit. The obvious standout there is education failing to support the needs of the Traveller community (but even there, and despite the worry about traditionalist gender roles, there's more girls enrolled than boys and they perform better). Outside of that is where you get the fabled "White boys on free school meals" metric, but specifically it's mainly white British and African Caribbean boys with free meals who under-perform. That should be enough to tell you that it probably isn't Rayner's allusion to "teaching kids about colonialism and feminism makes white boys fail" that's in play, but it would be worth studying any commonalities.

Also worth studying as a set which never seems to come up is "did they have high quality early years education or not?" because the first 5 years is key.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 16:36

Isomermaid: Dec 3, 2019; Swish swish, like a fish

Strom Cuzewon posted:

I like how "the Labour Party has a long and varied past" is one of those things that sounds perfectly reasonable, but in the context of a twitter list, you just know theres gonna be some madness later on.

Edit :and there it is. Jesus Christ.

Funny how when Blair wanted to scrap clause 4 and take the party to the right, the socialists complained about the party becoming unrecognisable they were told to shut up and lump it and move with the times for the good of the party and it was all good and no problem. But now the left is reasserting itself all of a sudden change is terrible, it's a big hard left conspiracy and they absolutely. Will. Not. Shut. Up about it in the press, sabotaging the leadership and melting down over Twitter to the delight of their clapping circle, from now until forever, gently caress the consequences. Centrism is the goddamn worst.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 16:52

sinky: Feb 22, 2011; Slippery Tilde

# ? Feb 4, 2020 18:22

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

sinky posted:

x

2021 holiday season is going to be interesting as well as all the various Mediterranean and ski resorts suddenly struggle to get applicants with strong English language skills to work for nothing.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 18:37

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Every time we've celebrated 'Brexit' nothing has actually changed. It has been a constant series of extensions. Even now we're technically out, we're not really until the end of the year. People don't seem to quite get the implications of this. There is a 100% chance that after the transition period is over a great number of enthusiastic Brexiteers are going to arrive in Spain for their holidays sans any kind of visa, and will be a absolutely fuming when they're denied entry. Hell, there's going to be a lot of them absolutely incredulous that they have to wait in the slow line at customs now they don't have EU passports. They just do not understand what the EU is or how it interacts with their lives. They very soon will. When the material impact of Brexit starts to bite - and it will - the government will no longer be able to paper the cracks with soundbites and stirring rhetoric about sovereignty. Ireland is almost certainly going to vote to reunify. Scotland could well go full UDI. Mass delays at the channel, shortages of food and medicine. Much of this could be avoided with shrewd politics and diplomacy of course, but lol if that's compatible with Tory hubris. There's an opportunity in all this, though. Johnson has to own it come what may.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 18:53

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

They'll cover for their inability to do anything that helps people by being extremely racist and xenophobic so if you're doing anything this year it should be to strengthen intercommunity relations and building power to defend migrants and BAME people while also being able to blame the Tories and capitalism for the problems.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 18:59

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

ThomasPaine posted:

Johnson has to own it come what may.

He... very much doesn't, though. He will just keep shifting the blame back to the EU, or immigrants, or the poor, no matter what the actual reasons for the problems are, and people will believe him, becase they have little reason not to, just like plenty of people believe Trump is not a crime guy, Prince Andrew isn't a nonce, and Boris isn't a lying loving toe-rag.

He only has to own it if the establishment forces him to, and it won't.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 19:00

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Lmao this is only the start of us vs them with Europe

# ? Feb 4, 2020 19:01

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

food shortages i'm curious how they'll blame europe since they're already telling people they're imposing checks on goods at the end of the transition period

# ? Feb 4, 2020 19:17

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Jose posted:

food shortages i'm curious how they'll blame europe since they're already telling people they're imposing checks on goods at the end of the transition period

In the papers.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 19:25

The Deleter: May 22, 2010

Insidious EU starving our brave boys!!! NEW BLITZ IN 2021!!! - Daily Mail, sometime this year

# ? Feb 4, 2020 19:28

OzyMandrill: Aug 12, 2013; Look upon my words
and despair

ThomasPaine posted:

They very soon will. When the material impact of Brexit starts to bite - and it will - the government will no longer be able to paper the cracks with soundbites and stirring rhetoric about sovereignty.

All they will do is blame the Spanish customs for 'acting like little hitlers. They let us in last year, what's the difference? We know they can do it, just let us have our holidays. They need our money, see.'

# ? Feb 4, 2020 19:47

Saros: Dec 29, 2009; Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

I wouldn't disregard the possibility that Boris & co make impactful concessions on stuff to avoid people having to do anymore than a cheap e-visa application and maybe the ability to use the fast lanes lol. It's the one thing their base will actually notice.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 19:56

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Saros posted:

I wouldn't disregard the possibility that Boris & co make impactful concessions on stuff to avoid people having to do anymore than a cheap e-visa application and maybe the ability to use the fast lanes lol. It's the one thing their base will actually notice.

Stuff like that will come at quite a price though, the EU will want significant legal protections for its citizens rights in exchange and so it's back to the four freedoms level of coverage. Will he really give in so much that we end up with a soft Brexit? Seems really unlikely unless a really convincing person manages to penetrate his social bubble and thick skull.

namesake fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Feb 4, 2020

# ? Feb 4, 2020 20:23

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Just looking at some waffle about a school a relative is thinking of sending her daughter and saw this:

Each year we have a large number of participants in the UKMT Maths Challenges

# ? Feb 4, 2020 20:26

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Just looking at some waffle about a school a relative is thinking of sending her daughter and saw this:

Each year we have a large number of participants in the UKMT Maths Challenges

I believe the proper term is 'page snipes'.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 20:31

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I think that's the UK maths tournament or something, yeah.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 20:50

WhatEvil: Jun 6, 2004; Can't get no luck.

RLB is currently live on Novara.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8eJDaOgV0

E:

She just said that Burgon's politics are closer to hers than Rayner's are.

WhatEvil fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 4, 2020

# ? Feb 4, 2020 21:33

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Gonna be a lot of "frank discussions" at this rate.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 21:49

WhatEvil: Jun 6, 2004; Can't get no luck.

RLB said trans rights. Self-ID should be law, no debate.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 21:56

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Except about trans rights, apparently, self ID should be made law, end of.
Don't really know how that works with the weird sex segregated spaces thing.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 21:56

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Just looking at some waffle about a school a relative is thinking of sending her daughter and saw this:

Each year we have a large number of participants in the UKMT Maths Challenges

Well i hope she's got :10bux:

# ? Feb 4, 2020 22:14

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

OwlFancier posted:

Except about trans rights, apparently, self ID should be made law, end of.
Don't really know how that works with the weird sex segregated spaces thing.

Most of the sex segregated spaces are in practice self reported gender segregated spaces.

I'm not sure what's going to happen as we start moving away from binary sex/gender in the wider public sphere.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 22:18

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Guavanaut posted:

Most of the sex segregated spaces are in practice self reported gender segregated spaces.

I'm not sure what's going to happen as we start moving away from binary sex/gender in the wider public sphere.

Sure, but I know there was a lot of criticism about that policy and I don't know if they mean something else. I mean frankly I don't know how sex/gender segregated spaces are supposed to loving work anyway unless you plan to install the gender police at the door.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 22:38

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

I think in hospitals they just ask on the forms. I have no idea about other places but most LGBTQ+ places I think run on the honour/don't be an rear end in a top hat system.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 22:49

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

This is the NHS guidance regarding transpeople and Mixed Sex Accommodation:

Annex B: Delivering same-sex accommodation for trans people and gender variant children

Transgender, or trans, is a broad, inclusive term referring to anyone whose personal experience of gender extends beyond the typical experiences of their assigned sex at birth. It includes those who identify asnon-binary.Under the Equality Act 2010, individuals who have proposed, begun or completed reassignment of gender enjoy legal protection against discrimination. A trans person does not need to have had, or be planning, any medical gender reassignment treatment to be protected under the Equality Act: it is enough if they are undergoing a personal process of changing gender. In addition, good practice requires that clinical responses be patient-centred, respectful and flexible towards all transgender people whether they live continuously or temporarily in a gender role that does not conform to their natal sex.

General key points are that:
�Trans people should be accommodated according to their presentation: the way they dress, and the name and pronouns they currently use.
�This may not always accord with the physical sex appearance of the chest or genitalia.
�It does not depend on their having a gender recognition certificate (GRC) or legal name change.
�It applies to toilet and bathing facilities (except, for instance, that pre-operative trans people should not share open shower facilities).
�Views of family members may not accord with the trans person�s wishes, in which case, the trans person�s view takes priority.

Those who have undergone transition should be accommodated according to their gender presentation. Different genital or breast sex appearance is not a bar to this, since sufficient privacy can usually be ensured through the use of curtains or by accommodation in a single side room adjacent to a gender appropriate ward. This approach may be varied under special circumstances where, for instance, the treatment is sex-specific and necessitates a trans person being placed in an otherwise opposite gender ward. Such departures should be proportionate to achieving a �legitimate aim�, for instance, a safe nursing environment. This may arise, for instance, when a trans man is having a hysterectomy in a hospital, or hospital ward that is designated specifically for women, and no side room is available. The situation should be discussed with the individual concerned and a joint decision made as to how to resolve it. In addition to these safeguards, where admission/triage staff are unsure of a person�s gender, they should, where possible, ask discreetly where the person would be most comfortably accommodated. They should then comply with the patient�s preference immediately, or as soon as practicable. If patients are transferred to a ward, this should also be in accordance with their continuous gender presentation (unless the patient requests otherwise). If,on admission, it is impossible to ask the view of the person because he or she is unconscious or incapacitated then, in the first instance, inferences should be drawn from presentation and mode of dress. No investigation as to the genital sex of the person should be undertaken unless this is specifically necessary to carry out treatment. In addition to the usual safeguards outlined in relation to all other patients, it is important to take into account that immediately post-operatively, or while unconscious for any reason, those trans women who usually wear wigs, are unlikely to wear them in these circumstances, and may be �read� incorrectly as men. Extra care is therefore required so that their privacy and dignity as women areappropriately ensured. Trans men whose facial appearance is clearly male, may still have female genital appearance, so extra care is needed to ensure their dignity and privacy as men. Non-binary individuals, who do not identify as being male or female, should also be asked discreetly about their preferences, and allocated to the male or female ward according to their choice.
Trans men and non-binary individuals can become pregnant and should be treated with dignity whileusing maternity services. Further advice on providing services to trans people can be found in Providing services for transgender customers on GOV.UK.

Seems good to me.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 23:05

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

lmao

https://twitter.com/mr_random_nemo/status/1224616469155237889?s=20

# ? Feb 4, 2020 23:47

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

TBF they were luckier than they would have been under the current shitfire.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 23:50

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

A little light remainer lunacy for this night:

https://twitter.com/Quizbay/status/1224060850262114304?s=19

# ? Feb 4, 2020 23:51

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

thespaceinvader posted:

TBF they were luckier than they would have been under the current shitfire.

Lower that bar some more.

Junior G-man posted:

A little light remainer lunacy for this night:

https://twitter.com/Quizbay/status/1224060850262114304?s=19

Clearly that won't ever happen but suppose it did, do you know how loving seething I would be that the first general strike in this lovely country in 95 or years is about Brexit rather than income inequality & housing prices & power disparities & y'know, poo poo that loving matters? I think my head would explode. Because I would put a sawn-off shotgun into my mouth and pull the trigger. Okay, not really, but I would be beyond angry. 50/50 chance of me spontaneously combusting from rage.

forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 4, 2020

# ? Feb 4, 2020 23:54

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# ? May 24, 2024 19:07

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

forkboy84 posted:

50/50 chance of me spontaneously combusting from rage.

If you do, run at the police lines for some awesome footage that will somehow never be seen anywhere but the internet.

# ? Feb 4, 2020 23:59

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