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Big Huski Boi posted:LRed Bull spent the better part of five years openly making GBS threads on Renault at every opportunity (to the point where they had to rebadge the engine to keep them apart) and Honda didn't have a problem doing business with them. Because Red Bull has been nothing but positive publicly with them (and Toro Rosso has as well). It’s not your reputation, it’s how you handle the actual relationship. And when Alonso was supposed to be the huge signing that got McLaren-Honda back into contention and was getting paid a ton by Honda directly? And then go on to race successfully for Toyota for two-plus years? Yeah, that bridge is burned, and I’m not surprised or upset Honda has a long memory. Jenson Button may have thought or said the same things privately, but not publicly, and he wound up landing softly in a Super GT drive. Or this could also be HPD letting the Japanese side play bad cop for them instead of taking the flak themselves.
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Feb 3, 2020 06:43
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Big Huski Boi posted:Did he do something behind the scenes we're not privy to? Seems like an awfully over the top meltdown in response to a single angry radio message. Especially considering they did, in fact, produce a GP2 engine. Alonso was kinda passive aggressive v Honda for more than a single radio message. Some parts were reasonable some were not.
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Feb 3, 2020 09:12
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Big Huski Boi posted:He got mad that the engine sucked rear end (which it did) and said "GP2 engine!" on the radio. A racing driver complains about his car that way in literally every single race. If that's it then it shouldn't be an issue in the slightest. Red Bull spent the better part of five years openly making GBS threads on Renault at every opportunity (to the point where they had to rebadge the engine to keep them apart) and Honda didn't have a problem doing business with them. So either Alonso was extra petty behind the scenes (which is absolutely possible! that's what he does) or else Honda are the pettiest lil babies on the entire planet. Ok Fernando. You’re still not driving for Honda in the 500, sorry.
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Feb 3, 2020 11:41
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drgitlin posted:Ok Fernando. You’re still not driving for Honda in the 500, sorry. All I'm asking you is if there is more to this story behind the scenes, because if it's just the radio message then they're grossly overreacting. You don't need to instantly become a massive poo poo heel about it, god drat. You can just say yes or no or I don't know.
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Feb 3, 2020 12:19
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You’re the one being really angry about this. I have no inside knowledge other than what I’ve already shared, which is that the HPD and Honda bosses I was talking to at Daytona did not seem at all inclined to forgive or forget. Knowing that he plays ruthless team politics, it is a very safe assumption that the public GP2 engine comment was the tip of the iceberg and we can be pretty sure he said all that and more behind closed doors too. And if you do some reading you’ll see Ferrari said it would never have him back, and Christian Horner says he’d never take him at Red Bull because of how disruptive he is inside a team once he starts doing his thing. Sorry that upsets you. Motorsports is a team sport, and you win as a team or lose as a team. Once drivers forget that, it’s usually bad. Edit: unlike me, Mark Hughes does have a lot of insider info. Read him: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/mph-which-f1-team-would-have-fernando-alonso-in-2021
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Feb 3, 2020 12:36
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I'm not angry at all, actually, and if you would've just calmly answered the question the first time this wouldn't have been a problem. Thank you.
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Feb 3, 2020 12:40
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Does everyone not recall the time in both late 2016 and basically all of 2017 when Boullier, Zak Brown, Alonso and eventually even the Belgian guys (Strudel Vandoonsen or something) were saying that they would be getting podiums and winning races with any other engine? It goes far beyond the GP2 engine comments. Was the engine awful? Yes, unequivocally. Was McLaren’s chassis good? The answer is no.
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Feb 3, 2020 15:39
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Another thing about the RBR/Honda vs. Renault is that the Honda engines cost much less. It’s why the criticisms aren’t as severe.
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Feb 3, 2020 15:41
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Alonso also pushed for the engine change.
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Feb 3, 2020 15:43
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Frond posted:Does everyone not recall the time in both late 2016 and basically all of 2017 when Boullier, Zak Brown, Alonso and eventually even the Belgian guys (Strudel Vandoonsen or something) were saying that they would be getting podiums and winning races with any other engine? It goes far beyond the GP2 engine comments. A huge reason McLaren had so many engine failures is because they designed the chassis with basically no regard to engine cooling or packaging. The arrogance within that team “best chassis on the grid” was exposed in stark relief when they put a Renault engine in it and it was still utter horseshit. Many people got fired or reassigned at McLaren as a result, and now the team is getting back to its old ways again. I’m a McLaren fan before I’m a Honda fan, and even I can see that the issue there was mostly one to do with McLaren.
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Feb 3, 2020 16:41
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drgitlin posted:A huge reason McLaren had so many engine failures is because they designed the chassis with basically no regard to engine cooling or packaging. The arrogance within that team “best chassis on the grid” was exposed in stark relief when they put a Renault engine in it and it was still utter horseshit. Many people got fired or reassigned at McLaren as a result, and now the team is getting back to its old ways again. They also 1. made Honda build an engine for 2015 when they would've really preferred to wait until 2016, and 2. very very wrongly assumed the 2014 regulations would put a huge premium on aero efficiency and insisted Honda build the most compact engine possible at the cost of producing a lot less horsepower. And then they blamed Honda when the engine wasn't reliable enough at the start, and again when they had to scrap everything and design a brand new engine because the ultra compact design couldn't produce the needed horsepower. So I can't really blame Honda for not wanting to work with McLaren again. The tension between the two companies was extremely obvious in the Amazon documentary they made.
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Feb 3, 2020 16:58
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Honda paying for a scholarship for US F3 to Indy Lights. https://hpd.honda.com/Articles/F3-F4/2020-HPD-Establishes-F3-Americas-Drivers-Champion-Scholarship
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Feb 3, 2020 19:06
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drgitlin posted:You’re the one being really angry about this. I have no inside knowledge other than what I’ve already shared, which is that the HPD and Honda bosses I was talking to at Daytona did not seem at all inclined to forgive or forget. and I would imagine Honda subsidizing Alonso's bank account to the tune of 8-figures per year while hearing these comments may also play a part in the proverbial "DO NOT SERVE" picture behind the bar with his face on it. [edit] as raised in that Hughes article, I totally forgot that the "GP2 Engine" comments were at Suzuka. Ouch. harperdc fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 23:43
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IMO it's generally a very sign for the future health of your series when parts suppliers use monopsony power to start exercising hire/fire power over what's supposed to be a customer series.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:12
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https://twitter.com/AJFoytRacing/status/1224754549501648896 Also: IndyCar Series 2020: Part-Timer's Revenge!!! IndyCar Series 2020: Really lovely Musical Chairs Edition IndyCar Series 2020: Chevrolet Indycar Series Vetoed by Honda IndyCar Series 2019: Actually it's the 2020 season but we didn't bother making a new thread
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Feb 4, 2020 19:05
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Ooof. Seabass got his work cut out for him on that ride.
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Feb 4, 2020 19:10
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WindyMan posted:https://twitter.com/AJFoytRacing/status/1224754549501648896 different threads for ovals, road courses and street courses. replace some of them randomly during the season.
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Feb 4, 2020 19:14
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Roger Penske's Indycar Series 2020
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Feb 4, 2020 19:19
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I'm Paul Page. From Something Awful, this... is Indycar Racing 2020!
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Feb 4, 2020 19:22
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hey guys do you think Paul Page is a goon
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Feb 4, 2020 19:30
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WindyMan posted:hey guys do you think Paul Page is a goon He's cool So no.
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Feb 4, 2020 19:54
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Bentai posted:I'm Paul Page. From Something Awful, this... is Indycar Racing 2020! *ICR2 theme begins, played on kazoos*
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Feb 4, 2020 19:55
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big nipples big life posted:different threads for ovals, road courses and street courses. replace some of them randomly during the season. And have some cowards opt out of posting in the oval threads
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Feb 4, 2020 20:12
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Occasionally have the F1 posters come in, make a huge embarrasement of themselves, and leave
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Feb 4, 2020 20:14
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Big Huski Boi posted:And have some cowards opt out of posting in the oval threads what do you call the ones that only post in the oval threads but they have a strong showing every post?
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Feb 4, 2020 20:18
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CactusWeasle posted:Occasionally have the F1 posters come in, make a huge embarrasement of themselves, and leave How often is "occasionally?" Asking for a friend. big nipples big life posted:what do you call the ones that only post in the oval threads but they have a strong showing every post? Ed
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Feb 4, 2020 20:33
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CactusWeasle posted:Occasionally have the F1 posters come in, make a huge embarrasement of themselves, and leave NASCAR posters need to comment in their own threads about how they like watching the Indycar thread but would never post in it.
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Feb 4, 2020 20:36
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Feels Villeneuve posted:IMO it's generally a very sign for the future health of your series when parts suppliers use monopsony power to start exercising hire/fire power over what's supposed to be a customer series. One could argue it hasn’t been a “customer” series since Pat Patrick gave those Chevy-Ilmors to Alfa (allegedly), but I see what your saying. This kind of poo poo destroyed CART.
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Feb 4, 2020 21:59
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Frond posted:One could argue it hasn’t been a “customer” series since Pat Patrick gave those Chevy-Ilmors to Alfa (allegedly), but I see what your saying. This kind of poo poo destroyed CART. Yeah, and I have deep questions over anyone going "well, you deserve what you get" over an engine supplier apparently having enough sway to slap down one of the series' biggest teams over what should be their own hiring decision, but then again, certain people feel the need to compulsively defend billion dollar brands these days.
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Feb 4, 2020 23:11
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big nipples big life posted:what do you call the ones that only post in the oval threads but they have a strong showing every post? Graduates of the USAC thread, posters Robin Miller would buy a ride for the 500 for if his Vegas numbers come up [Edit] Feels Villeneuve posted:Yeah, and I have deep questions over anyone going "well, you deserve what you get" over an engine supplier apparently having enough sway to slap down one of the series' biggest teams over what should be their own hiring decision, but then again, certain people feel the need to compulsively defend billion dollar brands these days. I think there would be a bigger cry if they’d allowed McLaren to use Honda engines with Schmidt-Petersen, but they aren’t. So it seems more like bad F1 blood spilling over than a manufacturer throwing weight around? harperdc fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 00:13
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Yeah, and I have deep questions over anyone going "well, you deserve what you get" over an engine supplier apparently having enough sway to slap down one of the series' biggest teams over what should be their own hiring decision, but then again, certain people feel the need to compulsively defend billion dollar brands these days. Honda is known for holding grudges. They blackballed Rahal post-‘94 (He tried to go back to them during the 1997 season.)
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Feb 5, 2020 00:27
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tbh, this is a byproduct of the mandatory engine leases that were one of the primary reasons for the IRL getting made to be in the first place. Early IRL rules required Chevy and Nissan to open their entire parts book to any independent engine builder that wanted to build one, and required them to sell the engines outright if a team wanted them. This lead to lots of little, weird teams getting old engines and running without any GM or Nissan support in the early days. But then the IRL quietly adopted mandatory leases by the 2003 season to get Honda and Toyota to leave CART, in an effort to kill CART for good. It didn't work. All of that said, even if AA owned their own engines, they wouldn't be able to do this deal without Honda's support. Honda gives them millions in support dollars... another thing the IRL stopped in its foundational rules that it has now let creep back into the sport at its own detriment.
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Feb 5, 2020 00:30
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Seabass and TK could still be one hell of a one-two punch. ...on most any other team. big nipples big life posted:different threads for ovals, road courses and street courses. replace some of them randomly during the season. People get confused which twisty track thread they're supposed to be in because road and street courses could be seen as the same thing.
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Feb 5, 2020 00:55
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BTW it’s definitely Tokyo that nixed the deal.
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Feb 5, 2020 01:15
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HPD was trying to play good parent/bad parent.
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Feb 5, 2020 01:21
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I'm really certain that Dalton Watisfaces two 7th place finished in an 8 car series gives him the experience required to rock Indycar.
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Feb 5, 2020 11:53
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https://twitter.com/team_penske/status/1225071632580009984?s=21
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Feb 5, 2020 16:19
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this kicks rear end.
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Feb 5, 2020 16:27
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Big Huski Boi posted:I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this kicks rear end. 
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Feb 5, 2020 16:50
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That’s awesome news. Can’t wait to see how he does.
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Feb 5, 2020 17:44
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