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Alternatively if you're lucky enough to have a makerspace with a laser or CNC nearby you could probably get someone to program a circle into it pretty easily and they could even run a flattening program as well to tidy it up 
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Feb 5, 2020 02:23
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For someone who wants to try power carving after getting into whittling recently, what kind of price point and brand would you guys recommend for a hobbyist at most, for now? I'm asking after trying the $20 Wen rotary tool that's on a lot of lists but was just horribly imprecise and vibrated like crazy.
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Feb 5, 2020 03:33
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Jaded Burnout posted:It's time for me to get a jointer. Probably one of these: Depends on what you mean by a 'bunch', but that 'craft' one looks plenty solid for the price, and the thickness planer combo is attractive. If you're not jointing or surfacing something like curly maple, you can survive without a helix head cutter. By god, I'd love to be able to put one on the old jointer of mine. I'm not sure what those TCT knives are except they seem to be a hardness somewhere between HSS and carbide. Those and the vernier setting jig might be worth your while, since a perfect, not just 'good' setup is crucial. I've never used one, btw, but the concept is good.
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Feb 5, 2020 04:04
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JEEVES420 posted:1. Wood base Cheese Dome, but not sure on the replacement base as most people seem to break the glass not the wood. What a cute girly-mon router trammel he has there. 
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Feb 5, 2020 04:18
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:This is the 'Trade' Version with straight knives, which is substantially less expensive than the same thing with a spiral cutter head. https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-trade-series-at107pt-planer-thicknesser-230v-508498 Mr. Mambold posted:Depends on what you mean by a 'bunch', but that 'craft' one looks plenty solid for the price, and the thickness planer combo is attractive. If you're not jointing or surfacing something like curly maple, you can survive without a helix head cutter. By god, I'd love to be able to put one on the old jointer of mine. I'm not sure what those TCT knives are except they seem to be a hardness somewhere between HSS and carbide. Those and the vernier setting jig might be worth your while, since a perfect, not just 'good' setup is crucial. I've never used one, btw, but the concept is good. I'm seeing this as going from buying dimensioned lumber to sawn lumber, so I expect it'll get a fair bit of use, but not daily use like an actual tradesperson would. My current list of projects (across a whole house) is: - stair treads - steps - window sills - plantation shutters - bed - tables - shelves - cupboards Probably some other stuff but my general plan is to use ply for most painted surfaces, use this to dimension local oak for most visible surfaces, and probably use it for a variety of other random crap where I want to adjust the size of some cheap softwood or whatever. Sounds like the non-spiral trade version would be the better bet.
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Feb 5, 2020 10:42
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I've got a question about joinery for a bigger project than I am used to. I need to build a firewood shed, the back of which will serve as a fence to screen off line of sight of a hot tub in our backyard. The shed needs to have at minimum a corrugated tin roof, be at least 8' long, 4' in depth and 8' high at the rear, ~6-7' high at the front. It's going to be built onto a grass yard adjacent to the house and will be on an anchoring brick (if using 4x4s) or just a brick pad otherwise. For materials I envision entirely pressure treated lumber with corrugated tin roofing. I've looked around randomly for plans and most seem to be something like these: https://howtospecialist.com/give-back/diy-2-cord-wood-shed/ https://myoutdoorplans.com/shed/3-cord-firewood-shed-plans/ So, like, these seem well enough, but what's bothering me is the joinery. The vertical beams are paired 2x4 or similar and are just nailed into the lower frame. Likewise the framing for the roof is just supported by the nails driven into the vertical supports. For both of these the entire stability and strength just rely upon whatever nails, bolts, screws etc one would decide to use and it seems like if one of those failed it would rapidly lead to more stress on the remainder, encouraging further failure. I'd rather have the vertical supports be 4x4 and placed into a something like a deck block (https://www.homedepot.com/p/11-1-2-in-x-8-in-x-11-1-2-in-Concrete-Block-10550005/100350712). So, what I need to know is what types of joinery / attachment would be recommended for something like this? Off the top of my head I'd guess cutting in rabbets into the 4x4 and nailing in a 2x4 that goes perpendicular in each direction etc, or at least doing that for the 8' long 2x4 that would make up the longer axis of the shed so that the weight bearing elements of the floor and roof are now directly into the 4x4 post. I know nothing of this kind of framing joinery though and am wondering if there's a pretty standard convention I am missing. I'd especially like to use things that can be done with a skillsaw, router, drill, outside etc since this will be a little unwieldy in my shop given the sizes and having to work at the ends of 8' + pieces. Any thoughts or links to some framing joinery stuff I should look over? I think I can come up with a solid enough plan on my own but don't want to find out after the 1st storm that I did something really stupid.
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Feb 5, 2020 14:03
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A 4x4 and deckblock is what I've done. You're overly worried though. A joist screwed right into the face of the posts is fine and will last a long time with a good overhang. If you want to overbuild though... spend some time looking at the simpson straps in the store. Like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson...RTC42/100375007 Making a ledger for rafters is exactly what I'm doing this weekend to repair my lean to carport. After 20 years the trees have gotten so close they were rubbing up against the wood and rotting it. I'll be screwing a 2x8 with GRK structural screws right into the 4x4 posts. The 2x8 will get some face mount joist hangers to carry the rafters and it'll last another 20 years.
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Feb 5, 2020 14:26
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Joist hangers is the go-to solution as far as I know, but I can't imagine it'd be an issue if nobody's walking on them.
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Feb 5, 2020 14:54
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Yeah I know I am probably overengineering but after building some furniture it just seems sorta wrong to have vertical supports only loaded by weight based on perpendicular screws or nails when I've bothered to learn how to do joinery etc otherwise. I just wanted to see if that even mattered at all (seems not to) and if people didn't want to do it that way what else was there. I like the idea of joist hangers at least for the floor setup since it'll bear a lot of weight from the firewood and the floor is going to be set a few inches above ground level to minimize ground contact / rot.
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Feb 5, 2020 15:04
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That Works posted:Yeah I know I am probably overengineering but after building some furniture it just seems sorta wrong to have vertical supports only loaded by weight based on perpendicular screws or nails when I've bothered to learn how to do joinery etc otherwise. 90% of any wood building is just toenailed together, but joist hangers should be a relatively small investment for your peace of mind. Or you could go Full Joinery if you fancy it.
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Feb 5, 2020 15:16
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That Works posted:Yeah I know I am probably overengineering but after building some furniture it just seems sorta wrong to have vertical supports only loaded by weight based on perpendicular screws or nails when I've bothered to learn how to do joinery etc otherwise. Wire nails are much stronger in shear than most people realize (and screws are much weaker). 3 16d sinkers has a greater cross sectional area than a 1/4" steel rod, not to mention the friction between joist and rim from the nails. Everywhere you see 3 nails, imagine you are trying to shear off a 1/4" rod with the weight of firewood. That being said, overbuilding is always fun. If you want your cross members to be fully supported from below and not really on the shear strength of nails, build it up out of double 2x4's like a jack/king stud arrangement with one 2x leaving gaps for intersecting members instead of spending a bunch of time with a router notching out nasty PT. I massively overbuilt my lumber rack this way because I wanted the cross members that bear all the weight of the wood to be fully supported and not just relying on nails and it is solid af. E:pics so maybe this makes more sense   If you notched the rim joists into the posts and then laid 2x4 across the top of them on flat (like the top of a deck) everything is in compression and gravity basically holds it together. On the sides where the plans you linked have boards going front to back to make walls, if you run those on a diagonal instead of perpendicular it will make things much stiffer, especially if you catch the bottom joist and top plate and tie them to the posts. Triangles are strong. Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 15:37
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Jaded Burnout posted:I'm seeing this as going from buying dimensioned lumber to sawn lumber, so I expect it'll get a fair bit of use, but not daily use like an actual tradesperson would. Oak is great for all that, gently caress the h8rs. You've got English oak anyhow.
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Feb 5, 2020 17:42
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I have a basement shop, without any windows that currently open. Am I stuck finishing outside (for anything with more VOCs than brushed/HVLP paint or BLO) until I get to a point where I can open a window to get decent ventilation? I once tried to finish a small piece with spray lacquer with a fan going and had to leave the house for an hour. I've used Danish oil without problems, but it still puts off some VOCs and isn't all that protective to begin with. Shellac just puts off ethanol as far as I know, but it's not suitable for any exterior use, etc.
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Feb 5, 2020 17:51
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I've found some pretty amazing stuff on youtube under Tewaza (I think it means hand made?). I highly recommend viewing a few, its pretty much all the algo gives me these days. Some of these workshops and tool collections..... hnggggg they are so amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yu-bbpEqUk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j67w-uALyLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxvOMHoLRBY
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Feb 5, 2020 18:15
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Mr. Mambold posted:Oak is great for all that, gently caress the h8rs. You've got English oak anyhow. Hyperlocal, the forests and sawmills are about 20 minutes away.
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Feb 5, 2020 18:59
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I’m cutting mortises in some oak today with a new-old mortising chisel. My previous chisel would take about 20 minutes to get anything decent done with it, even after being sharpened. I would be constantly honing because the edge would disappear on me. New chisel lets me take about 10 minutes and doesn’t loose its edge. It also is leaving a clean bottom to it. It makes me wonder what other wonderful hand tools I’m just missing out on because my collection is so small.
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Feb 5, 2020 19:12
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Jhet posted:I’m cutting mortises in some oak today with a new-old mortising chisel. My previous chisel would take about 20 minutes to get anything decent done with it, even after being sharpened. I would be constantly honing because the edge would disappear on me. How are you going to say all that and not give the make of the chisel. Thats like saying my old car was slow but my new car is fast 
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Feb 5, 2020 19:34
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more falafel please posted:I have a basement shop, without any windows that currently open. Am I stuck finishing outside (for anything with more VOCs than brushed/HVLP paint or BLO) until I get to a point where I can open a window to get decent ventilation? I once tried to finish a small piece with spray lacquer with a fan going and had to leave the house for an hour. I've used Danish oil without problems, but it still puts off some VOCs and isn't all that protective to begin with. Shellac just puts off ethanol as far as I know, but it's not suitable for any exterior use, etc. Unless you want to invest in a fume hood/cupboard or other similar arrangement which actively discharges via vents outside (that is, a forced-air/positive pressure system that sucks out the fumes as they are emitted), you need to do your VOC work outside. You can and should of course wear an appropriate ventilator (not just a dust mask), but you don't want flammable fumes accumulating indoors regardless.
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Feb 5, 2020 19:46
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Jhet posted:I’m cutting mortises in some oak today with a new-old mortising chisel. My previous chisel would take about 20 minutes to get anything decent done with it, even after being sharpened. I would be constantly honing because the edge would disappear on me. Note that any brand/variety of chisel that has a previous owner might have had its steel heat treatment hosed up, often invisibly. Put any chisel to a high speed grinder and within seconds the edge will overheat - you'll know you've already gone too far when the discoloration/oxidisation colors on the surface go past the lightest of ambers, which you may not see at all in indoor light (a pale yellow color indicates around 400 to 450 degrees F, which is a typical tempered temperature for many ordinary carbon steels). That coloration is just on the surface though, as soon as you take down that micro-thin layer of oxidization with say a whetstone or strop, you can no longer see the colors, but the temper is still hosed. Linger on that grindstone for longer, as you see those blues crawl across the surface, the over-tempering has gone deeper and deeper and you've taken down the hardness of more and more of the business-end of the chisel. You could potentially re-harden and then re-temper an old chisel if you have a forge or kiln, quenching medium, and then a way to temper it to a controlled temp: but the exactly right heat treatment also depends on the exact alloy, which you may or may not be able to determine. Long story short: if a used chisel won't hold an edge, it might be a cheapo/lovely chisel, or, it might be a good chisel that some chucklefuck has permanently softened for you. It can still work fine on softwood etc. but you'll be resharpening it constantly if you use it for heavy duty severing fibers of hard woods. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 19:51
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JEEVES420 posted:How are you going to say all that and not give the make of the chisel. Thats like saying my old car was slow but my new car is fast Supposedly Sheffield steel, but it holds an edge for a while, and let me cut half a dozen mortises without needing to mess with the edge this morning. Honestly, I don’t care that much, it was cheap off eBay, it looked in good condition, and my first chisels were something from probably Home Depot and are terrible. So even if someone had messed up the temper (doesn’t seem like it), it was an immediate step up from whatever $15 3 pack I started by using.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:27
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Yea its really night and day how nice a higher end chisel will cut you
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Feb 5, 2020 20:32
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Someone at work is challenging me to go full Anarchist Toolchest instead of buying a jointer/thicknesser. Sounds like vim-user mentality to me, but it would save me many hundreds of moneys in exchange for time.
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Feb 5, 2020 21:20
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:Yea its really night and day how nice a higher end chisel will cut you 
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Feb 5, 2020 21:31
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Jaded Burnout posted:Someone at work is challenging me to go full Anarchist Toolchest instead of buying a jointer/thicknesser. Sounds like vim-user mentality to me, but it would save me many hundreds of moneys in exchange for time. Good hand tools, a good way to keep them sharp, and a good workbench are definitely cheaper than a jointer/planer, but they ain’t free either. In the UK I imagine used old tools are probably cheaper and more common than in the US though. If you get your stock thicknessed/faced somewhere that removes the major misery factor for hand tools imo. Surfacing stock by hand suuuuucks but plenty of people braver and more patient than I do it (and did it for centuries, obviously). Long rips suck too but you have machines for that already.
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Feb 5, 2020 21:40
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Jaded Burnout posted:Someone at work is challenging me to go full Anarchist Toolchest instead of buying a jointer/thicknesser. Sounds like vim-user mentality to me, but it would save me many hundreds of moneys in exchange for time. I worked for a long time with only hand tools. Thicknessing is a bit of work, but also a good workout at the same time. Edge jointing is where I always had problems. It takes a lot of practice and a bit of skill, and it can still be a bitch to get a good glue edge. Getting a power jointer saved me a lot of headaches. Zip zip over the jointer and my glue up is ready. Edit: imo every woodworker should have a table saw, thickness planer, and a jointer for stock preparation. Dont waste a lot time making the wood workable. Edit 2: that’s weird for me to type because I like prepping stock. It gets me excited for the upcoming project. mds2 fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 22:00
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I would modify that to "every furniture maker" because if you're working small, hand tools are a lot less exhausting to use to do those jobs. If you make little boxes and cutting boards and stuff, it takes a lot less time to joint your little bits of wood.
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Feb 5, 2020 22:17
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:Yea its really night and day how nice a higher end chisel will cut you Yes, I've already done this before with the cheap ones. I make sure my fingers and other appendages are not in the firing line for them now. Took off a good piece of my finger tip. I can imagine a nice sharp higher end chisel will make that cut even cleaner. Best to be avoided really. As much as I enjoy the idea of power tools making quick work of things, I'm dividing the work better between powered and me-powered better. Detail work that my power tools are not great as is left to my hands, and long cuts or things that don't require as much precision are best done with my entry level power tools.
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Feb 5, 2020 22:18
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Jhet posted:As much as I enjoy the idea of power tools making quick work of things, I'm dividing the work better between powered and me-powered better. Detail work that my power tools are not great as is left to my hands, and long cuts or things that don't require as much precision are best done with my entry level power tools. I'm moving more and more towards hand tools purely because I often can't be hosed to put on the ppe and plug things in and connect hoses. But I'm not sure that would apply to an hour of planing a board. That said, there's something to be said for having some mindless work to chew on. If you turn all of that into brain work then it can be mentally tiring.
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Feb 5, 2020 22:28
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Fun little fact I found out this past weekend. Sawstops use capacitive belts that require changing about once a year. They loose their capacitance and cause false positive trips of the break. Found that interesting seeing as I can't find that info in the manual or elsewhere. But after a multitude of false trips at my makerspace that is what a Sawstop rep said and it hasn't happened since the belts were replaced. If you have a Sawstop something to keep in mind, even if the belt mechanically works fine you should plan to replace it once a year.
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Feb 5, 2020 22:45
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Jaded Burnout posted:I'm moving more and more towards hand tools purely because I often can't be hosed to put on the ppe and plug things in and connect hoses. But I'm not sure that would apply to an hour of planing a board. I would absolutely not mind having a thickness planer that I could just put the wood through to get it close. When it comes to stock prep, I wouldn't mind leaving some of that to machines that are good at it. When I want mindless work, I make a spoon by hand or a butter knife or something.
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Feb 5, 2020 22:51
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mds2 posted:Edit: imo every woodworker should have a table saw, thickness planer, and a jointer for stock preparation. Dont waste a lot time making the wood workable. This kind of talk is what made me completely uninterested in learning any woodworking for ages. I don't have hundreds (thousands?) of dollars to put into machines that'll gently caress me up and blow dust everywhere, and I sure as hell don't have the room for three massive appliances in my apartment. Not everyone has or needs a garage or shed. What I do have room for is a workbench and a tool chest, and I have enough time that it's not a hardship to use my body a little bit when I want a box or piece of furniture. Discovering hand-tool woodworking is what made me interested in touching any wood at all. I appreciate having information about it available from resources like YouTube and Lost Art Press, and to some extent this excellent thread. Machine woodworking can be neat, too, but it's counterproductive to insist that it's necessary.
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Feb 5, 2020 23:21
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SimonSays posted:This kind of talk is what made me completely uninterested in learning any woodworking for ages. I don't have hundreds (thousands?) of dollars to put into machines that'll gently caress me up and blow dust everywhere, and I sure as hell don't have the room for three massive appliances in my apartment. Not everyone has or needs a garage or shed. What I do have room for is a workbench and a tool chest, and I have enough time that it's not a hardship to use my body a little bit when I want a box or piece of furniture. These are all really good points and I don’t want to discourage anyone from woodworking. I myself am primarily a hand tool woodworker. I love using planes and chisels and rasps. Love. I hand dovetail nearly everything. I often resaw using handsaws. My primary source for learning woodworking were: 1. The Woodwrights Shop on PBS. 2. Paul Sellers on YouTube and 3. My local library. I read nearly every book they had. The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking by James Krenov spoke directly to my soul. That being said I really find a thickness planer to be invaluable. It’s the noisiest and messiest machine I own but I’d hate to be without it. Its a shop workhorse, but I also get all rough lumber off a mill. If you can buy S3S lumber a planer isn’t a necessity.
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Feb 5, 2020 23:58
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Anyone have a good scrap wood project suggestion? I have about 4bf of 4/4 maple left over and I'd like to have an extra project for a woodworking class tonight if turning a bowl goes faster than expected.
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Feb 6, 2020 00:02
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Baronash posted:Anyone have a good scrap wood project suggestion? I have about 4bf of 4/4 maple left over and I'd like to have an extra project for a woodworking class tonight if turning a bowl goes faster than expected. 4" wide, 2' x 2' wall hanging open shelf for whatevers.
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Feb 6, 2020 02:32
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Jaded Burnout posted:Someone at work is challenging me to go full Anarchist Toolchest instead of buying a jointer/thicknesser. Sounds like vim-user mentality to me, but it would save me many hundreds of moneys in exchange for time. I am a vim user and also a hand tool nutjob, so that checks out. Really though, think about what sounds better to you. For me, the cons of power tools (noise, cost, safety, dust) outweigh the pros (time, accuracy). Don't discount the time difference. I build large furniture (typically 4-7'), so the start of each project is days of stock prep, nonstop hand planing and sawing. The couple times I've used machines, the same prep gets done in half a day. But, I really enjoy the work. I work on computers all day, so throwing on a podcast and doing 4-6 hours of mindless physical labor is my idea of an ideal Saturday. If that doesn't sound fun to you, go with the planer.
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Feb 6, 2020 14:23
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ColdPie posted:I am a vim user and also a hand tool nutjob, so that checks out. I don't like the noise or the dust but I can deal with it. I feel pretty much the same about the physical labour, I think they balance out there. (which, incidentally, probably explains why I hate decorating which involves both). Working with machines requires a bunch of time too, though obviously not as much, in terms of setup and cleanup. The accuracy part might be a dealbreaker, if it's not possible to get good accuracy by hand in a reasonable way.
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Feb 6, 2020 14:59
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Jaded Burnout posted:I don't like the noise or the dust but I can deal with it. I feel pretty much the same about the physical labour, I think they balance out there. (which, incidentally, probably explains why I hate decorating which involves both). Good accuracy is very much achievable with hand tools, but it takes generally more time, more skill and there is no repeatability. I can cut one pretty accurate tenon by hand or dovetail one drawer by hand faster than I can set up the machine/jig to cut one on a machine. However, once I have set up a machine for that process, I can make 10 parts and have them all come out the same and be basically interchangeable. 1 part takes 5 minutes either way, but 10 parts takes 50 minutes by hand and 20 minutes by machine. Roy Underhill can probably knock out 10 interchangeble parts by hand in 30 minutes, but I sure can't. That doesn't really matter if you make a table that just has 1 drawer, but if you are making a dresser with 5, it might change the way you work. That being said, I love working with handtools and a hybrid approach is what works best for me. I get as much as I can out of the machine, but there are many times when it just makes more sense to cut the thing out on the bandsaw and then get out the spokeshaves and rasps and gouges instead of trying to make some some insane jigs to do 1 part safely on a machine. Hand work really frees you from the straight-line, right-angle tyranny of the table saw too, and the hand tool way of working-scribe and cut to fit- is useful all the time, especially for one-off work. It also can be much more accurate than measuring and avoids math mistakes and misread tape measure mistakes. If you already have a handplane and a handsaw and marking gauge and a chisel, surface a board both sides and see how you like it and cut some dovetails and mortise and tenon by hand and maybe you think 'well, glad to say I did that once, but my arms are sore and I don't want to do 50bf of that' or maybe you think 'heck yeah this is awesome and fun I wanna do this all the time.'
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Feb 6, 2020 15:31
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:If you already have a handplane and a handsaw and marking gauge and a chisel, surface a board both sides and see how you like it and cut some dovetails and mortise and tenon by hand and maybe you think 'well, glad to say I did that once, but my arms are sore and I don't want to do 50bf of that' or maybe you think 'heck yeah this is awesome and fun I wanna do this all the time.' Planing is my achilles heel. I don't think I'll enjoy it without more practice, more sharpening skill, more tuning skill, and maybe some more right-tool-right-job planes rather than trying everything with my stanley #5. I enjoy working with chisels and I'm getting pretty good with a saw.
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Feb 6, 2020 15:53
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:surface a board both sides and see how you like it and cut some dovetails and mortise and tenon by hand and maybe you think 'well, glad to say I did that once, but my arms are sore and I don't want to do 50bf of that' or maybe you think 'heck yeah this is awesome and fun I wanna do this all the time.' Haha the whole post was good but this part specifically is some good advice to take before you pick which side you're on regardless of what level of perfection you're chasing
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Feb 6, 2020 15:54
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 10:44 |
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There are people that make for the process and there are people that make for the result, and you can tell which one you are buy your preference(*) of hand or power tools. (*)excluding complications like time restrictions, or things that only really can be done with one or the other (like, I wouldn't include lathes)
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Feb 6, 2020 15:55
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