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That was another good episode. I like Agnes and our two Romulan buddies a lot. Captain guy and Raffi seem ok. I'm not a fan of the "romulans are all robots" theory, but this episode did have a few things to support it. Makes sense the Borg would be all 'does not compute' when trying to assimilate them if they were organic synthetics. Also, Romulans with forehead ridges are northerners, ok cool.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:08
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i don't get why picard needs rafi at all when he has laris who has already proven that she is i) highly knowledgable about the specific issue faced, ii) an excellent investigator with technical skills and iii) a lethal weapon who can neutralise a tactical squad given 0 seconds warning. she also doesn't have the disadvantage of hating his guts. i mean sure take rafi along as well if you want, but it seems like a major waste of resources to leave laris behind to look after the grapes. i bet her buddy could handle being grape caretaker alone. i just like laris a lot more so far.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:10
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You’d think Picard would have been all “hey maybe don’t stand spitting distance from this Romulan” after what happened last time. Agree w/everyone who is on about how long this is taking to get underway. Despite all the action over the past three episodes, I feel like I just watched a cold open. Excited to see them get underway. Disappointed that his Tal Shiar buddies weren’t coming, but I guess someone has to look after the dog. Also holy poo poo that was Hugh?? I just assumed it was some rando ex-Borg from that particular cube. Did they mention it and I just happened to miss one line?
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Feb 6, 2020 19:22
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Do we know the name of the millennium falcon in the show, I can't remember if they mentioned it also I have no idea what the hell is going on with the Borg cube or what they were talking about but I found it pretty boring even though I knew that dude was Hugh
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Feb 6, 2020 19:26
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Tighclops posted:Do we know the name of the millennium falcon in the show, I can't remember if they mentioned it La Sirena, but I don’t think it was mentioned in the episode.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:30
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I liked the undercover Romulan spy looking not suspicious at all in her sunglassesMartytoof posted:
Yeah he was referred to as Hugh at least once.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:36
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large_gourd posted:
I really sounded like Picard wanted to take Raffi along because she believes that Bush did 9/11. That part was underexplained.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:58
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The 45 minute runtimes are like literally the worst way to present this show, it's nuts.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:59
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 I think that's the first time the Vazquez Rocks have appeared as themselves in a Trek show, that's a great cut. Also, good episode, don't understand the pacing complaints at all I love this world building stuff, anytime they went to an alternate universe or wherever in any ST show, I always loved the little details that get teased out. So I love the Borg backstory stuff, the Romulan stuff (I've always felt Romulans were underused in the other main series). I know it's not an alternate universe but it kind of is Jean Eric Burn posted:The 45 minute runtimes are like literally the worst way to present this show, it's nuts. Wait two months and watch them any way you want zoux fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 20:30
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More interesting developments at work. I'm pretty on board with the idea that Soji is actually a legit threat to the universe, and Picard's going to have to solve or deal with that. Yes it's just bad guys and reclaimed Borg freaking out about her, but I like the idea that they may have a proper reason to be freaked out that would also freak out Picard. There's also nothing that could convince out of my mindset at this point that Agnes was recruited to spy on Picard and report back to the Commodore. I see it more as her being told to loop the Federation in, but the info she sends back will work against Picard. There's no way that whole Romulan surprise attack wasn't orchestrated to help give her an "in" with Picard. I imagine they waited to attack until they knew that Agnes was nearby. It's a lot of bodies to spend to not get all that much out of it (it seems reasonable Picard may well have taken Agnes along without her icing a Romulan), but you do alleviate any suspicion of her working with the Romulans that way for sure. Kind of T.V. show rules 101 with us knowing she met with the Commodore and not seeing the conversation, but hey even if it's a bit predictable I'm okay with that showing up as a complication down the line,
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Feb 6, 2020 20:48
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It's weird that a character in this show uses the word "pro-tip."
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Feb 6, 2020 20:48
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NowonSA posted:There's also nothing that could convince out of my mindset at this point that Agnes was recruited to spy on Picard and report back to the Commodore. I see it more as her being told to loop the Federation in, but the info she sends back will work against Picard. There's no way that whole Romulan surprise attack wasn't orchestrated to help give her an "in" with Picard. I imagine they waited to attack until they knew that Agnes was nearby. It's a lot of bodies to spend to not get all that much out of it (it seems reasonable Picard may well have taken Agnes along without her icing a Romulan), but you do alleviate any suspicion of her working with the Romulans that way for sure. Kind of T.V. show rules 101 with us knowing she met with the Commodore and not seeing the conversation, but hey even if it's a bit predictable I'm okay with that showing up as a complication down the line, Yea that was my thought too. Might be a bit too obvious with the foreshadowing her betrayal when Rios complains that Picard didn't vet her.
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Feb 6, 2020 20:51
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LOL of course two Tal Shiar have disruptors and phasers hiding all over their house, John Wick-style.
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Feb 6, 2020 20:54
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Wanna score some of that snake leaf....Lester Shy posted:It's weird that a character in this show uses the word "pro-tip." 24th Century people still obsessed with 20/21st century slang and stuff...in a Star Trek show? I will say JL is UNACCEPTABLE you can call him Jean Luc if you are Beverly Crusher or Q, otherwise it's Captain or Picard. In a galaxy where General Chang is also alive at the same time as Picard, he could also call him Jean Luc zoux fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 20:58
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Gonz posted:LOL of course two Tal Shiar have disruptors and phasers hiding all over their house, John Wick-style. Yeah I really liked that too. For a second I was like "wait, what?" and then I was just like, yeah of course that makes total sense.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:06
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Clearly not the first time somebody came after JL.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:08
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Lizard Combatant posted:Raffi the Vape Lord was hysterically bad. The writing, the performance, the editing! It's been a consistent director for all 3 so I don't know where to place the blame here. I don't mind smoking in cinema usually, but previous canon suggested that nobody in the Federation smoked in the future, with Quark specifically pointing it out as crazy, and here it was just really distracting and trying to be edgy on top of everything. The crew's all right and Jurati continues to be the best new character. Smuggling seems like reason enough to bring charging money into it. large_gourd posted:
same galenanorth fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 21:10
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I can't see any downside to smoking cigs in the future, my ship would be all smoking section. Also apparently if you live in North Romula you get a Forehead.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:12
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I loved that episode! We have the start of a pretty charming crew in a nice feeling ship. With the exception of Raffi, who one imagines will have to grow on the audience, 'cause that was a rough introduction. Her angst made sense with her history, but being exposed to all of it at once in a big dump was... not good. Hugh was fantastic. I like his performance and his character. "She's fine, the only problem here is that your idiot guard didn't secure his gun," was a good moment. Not a hint of hostility or resentment to someone who's clearly having mental difficulties, even though they're being violent- just compassion. The EMH being the captain with a bad accent was hilarious, but the ENH being the EMH with a different bad accent was incredibly hilarious. I can't wait to see other emergency systems bad accents! The big ideas remain strong, but we're also getting to the part where it's fun. Picard's going on an adventure with friends! I can't wait to see where they go and what types of people they meet! Big Mean Jerk posted:
I feel like the references to her house vs Picard's chateau were more about him being somewhere where he can do something satisfying with his retirement, working the vineyard, while she's not in a place where she can live a satisfying life for herself at all. Because physically, her "hovel" was gorgeous! I'd love to live in a place like that, out in the wilderness by myself. That place really looked like a paradise, with the plants everywhere. So I have to assume her "embarrassment" at showing Picard around had more to do with how it clashes with the lifestyle that would give her personal satisfaction. The irony being that Picard later states that he too is not satisfied, even with his "luxurious" home. Just as she needs to put information together, Picard needs to be out there, making a difference. So off they go. It's a fine setup, and I'm glad they took this long establishing it all. Honestly, a lot of the character stuff seems rushed if anything, so the complaints of "glacial" pacing are utterly mystifying to me. zoux posted:Also apparently if you live in North Romula you get a Forehead. I love all the Romulan cultural development in general. Sitting behind someone and asking if "someone" may be admitted as a polite way of asking to join someone, and real fake Romulan doors were lovely bits of world building.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:17
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Yeah I also enjoyed Hugh, both character and actor. It felt a biiiit like stunt casting when I heard about it and I figured it'd be like a five minute scene where Picard goes to meet his old pal, but it looks like it's going to be a much meatier role than that, and Jonathan Del Arco seems more than capable. Additinally I like that Rios' old ship was called the ibn Majid, after the famous 15th century Arabian explorer and navigator. Same with the Shenzhou from Discovery, too many SF ships are named after basically USN ships and this better reflects a multi-cultural world that has assimilated a number of cultures. What were the heavy cruiser classes in Starfleet around the time of the end of DS9? zoux fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 21:25
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galenanorth posted:I don't mind smoking in cinema usually, but previous canon suggested that nobody in the Federation smoked in the future, with Quark specifically pointing it out as crazy, and here it was just really distracting and trying to be edgy on top of everything. Maybe the 20th century businessman and the honky tonk singer that Data unthawed in that early TNG episode went on to reintroduce smoking to the 24th century, but now there’s no harmful medical effects.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:30
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All will be forgiven if they meet another Starfleet officer who takes one look at the the cigar chewing pilot dude and tells him that it makes him look like a loving idiot
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Feb 6, 2020 21:32
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*Extremely brownsville station voice* Smokin in the future  
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Feb 6, 2020 21:34
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Yeah I assumed it was the cigar equivalent of synthahol. I liked that the Captain was doing his best
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Feb 6, 2020 21:34
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There's no difference between Tom Paris working on 20th century cars and this guy smoking a cigar. In both cases the character thinks it makes them look cool because it's a "real" archaic thing that was seen as cool in its original context, but it actually makes them look weirdly pathetic. I'm fine with the captain being kind of lame and pretentiously "cool". It fits what we've seen of his character so far, like rejecting a dermal regenerator 'cause he wanted a cool manly scar. He's supposed to come off like he's wallowing a bit. The cigar adds to that effect, even if someone thought he'd actually look cool with it. Edit: marktheando posted:Yeah I assumed it was the cigar equivalent of synthahol.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:41
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Yeah he's definitely posturing for The Great Man and his navigator basically says as much.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:44
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zoux posted:Yeah I also enjoyed Hugh, both character and actor. It felt a biiiit like stunt casting when I heard about it and I figured it'd be like a five minute scene where Picard goes to meet his old pal, but it looks like it's going to be a much meatier role than that, and Jonathan Del Arco seems more than capable. Akira-class ships are heavy cruisers. Additionally, Memory Beta lists a few of them as being named after scientists and explorers. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an Akira given Michael Chabon's love for Memory Alpha/Beta zoux posted:Yeah he's definitely posturing for The Great Man and his navigator basically says as much. The look he gives Picard like, "Do the thing! Do the thing!" before he says "Engage!" completely sold it to me. Noise Complaint fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 21:46
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Noise Complaint posted:Akira-class ships are heavy cruisers. Additionally, Memory Beta lists a few of them as being named after scientists and explorers. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an Akira given Michael Chabon's love for Memory Alpha/Beta I get the feeling that the Akira's are BTS crew favorites because they come up so much and also because they made the NX 01 look like one. I know that Starfleet ships have those designations (Connies are heavy cruisers too I think) but I'm not sure I've ever heard the terminology used outloud in an episode
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Feb 6, 2020 21:54
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Eiba posted:Yeah, I also really liked that observation. He's got a lot of cliche surface stuff going on, and Picard just looked right past all that. Good quick way to build up a character on multiple levels. The "really a principled hero underneath" bit is part of the cliche. Just cause his awful Irish hologram hangs a lampshade on it, doesn't absolve the lazy choice. You see that a lot, two characters with extremely cliche traits will comment on how much of an archetype the other is. Writers think just pointing it out is in itself subversive and gives them a pass. This episode more than the previous 2 definitely abandoned any pretence of the future setting. Again, show this to a new viewer and get them to describe the societal structure of this world. What do you think the answer would be? But I'm not surprised people latch on to the smoking part, since it's the easiest to defend or rationalise as it's basically a cosmetic detail. Tighclops posted:All will be forgiven if they meet another Starfleet officer who takes one look at the the cigar chewing pilot dude and tells him that it makes him look like a loving idiot This won't happen, it's just character shorthand, same as the dock workers. It's just a way to communicate an idea as quickly as possible for a very broad audience. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 22:03
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We saw an Akira in the shipyards flashback last episode, so one will probably turn up this season.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:10
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Lizard Combatant posted:This episode more than the previous 2 definitely abandoned any pretence of the future setting. Again, show this to a new viewer and get them to describe the societal structure of this world. What do you think the answer would be? Like, what is inconsistent with what we know about the UFP in the 24th century? Not what smug Starfleet officers haughtily instructing unfrozen 20th century cavemen say, but what we've observed in all these episodes and such. By "future setting" do you mean the post scarcity space luxury communism or what
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Feb 6, 2020 22:13
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At least the cliched character types haven't done anything to make me hate them, but if we spend a whole season with them being all "woe is me I'm a good person underneath all my PTSD" they're going to get old really quick. In hindsight Firefly wasn't that great and I don't really want to see it again
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Feb 6, 2020 22:13
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Lizard Combatant posted:The "really a principled hero underneath" bit is part of the cliche. I think that it's going to be a "totally green fanboy" cliche when it comes down to it. Also what is it with Star Trek and Irish holograms.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:14
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zoux posted:Like, what is inconsistent with what we know about the UFP in the 24th century? Not what smug Starfleet officers smugly instructing unfrozen 20th century cavemen say, but what we've observed in all these episodes and such The entire concept of post scarcity or a monetary system for one. People complain about conditions and hours, about getting fired (seriously why was she fired?), about wealth disparity and privilege, about a lack of civilian presence in space. Not to mention the extreme changes to the ideology of the Federation which exist only to make a very obvious contemporary comparison. You may know that the power grid is powered by blah blah blah (insert memory alpha citation), but the show uses extremely blunt 21st century imagery and coding to sketch its characters and world. I don't think a new viewer would see the future as any different to the present.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:25
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Lizard Combatant posted:The entire concept of post scarcity or a monetary system for one. People complain about conditions and hours, about getting fired (seriously why was she fired?), about wealth disparity and privilege, about a lack of civilian presence in space. Not to mention the extreme changes to the ideology of the Federation which exist only to make a very obvious contemporary comparison. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this all feels like what you would expect from someone who wants to write a relevant story but is too far removed from the subject matter to make a convincing go of it.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:31
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You don't think people get fired in the 24th century? Post-scarcity is a term applied to the 24th century from the audience; we can say that Starfleet vessels are post scarcity but we don't actually know that much about Federation society besides what we are told when Picard or whoever is explaining it to some alien they kidnapped from their pre-Contact society in the ready room. We know private enterprise exists. If you go to Joe Siskos restaurant do you just get to eat whatever you want for free? What about a nice bottle of Chateu Picard, you just get as much as you want? Those fine artisan, non-replicated cheeses that the dude was packing for Picard, also free? Contraband exists, the black market exists, private property exists, how are these things obtained? Currency exists, in the TNG pilot they even make reference to wages and credits for starfleet officers. Honestly the idea of an entire society functioning on people doing jobs for no recompense is preposterous. There will still need to be janitors, ditch diggers and other manual laborers. You think Boothby just liked mowing lawns that much?
zoux fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 22:33
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The post scarcity = no money thing was always really loving stupid and this show is better for ignoring it. Same for DS9, the best show.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:33
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zoux posted:You don't think people get fired in the 24th century? Post-scarcity is a term applied to the 24th century from the audience; we can say that Starfleet vessels are post scarcity but we don't actually know that much about Federation society besides what we are told when Picard or whoever is explaining it to some alien they kidnapped from their pre-Contact society in the ready room. We know private enterprise exists. If you go to Joe Siskos restaurant do you just get to eat whatever you want for free? What about a nice bottle of Chateu Picard, you just get as much as you want? Those fine artisan, non-replicated cheeses that the dude was packing for Picard, also free? Contraband exists, the black market exists, private property exists, how are these things obtained? Sounds like something a writer interested in the setting could explore, hey? Even just with subtle little moments, no need to draw attention to itself really. It's the use of language in the fired moment. Apart from her discharge not making any sense (unless the Federation are assholes now) its again going for a really quick and easy present day comparison. It's a cumulative effect. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 22:35
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Lizard Combatant posted:Sounds like something a writer interested in the setting could explore, hey? Well, its' true that if something isn't addressed in the first three episodes of a series, it's never coming up again. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:The post scarcity = no money thing was always really loving stupid and this show is better for ignoring it. Same for DS9, the best show. Yup Noise Complaint posted:I honestly don't think that there's many more Trek connected writers than Michael Chabon. Yeah it's utterly laughable to say that Michael Chabon isn't interested in or a fan of Star Trek. zoux fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 22:36
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I honestly don't think that there's many more Trek connected writers than Michael Chabon. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/18/the-final-frontier
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Feb 6, 2020 22:38
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