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Their passives stack
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Feb 7, 2020 01:22
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tithin posted:Thanks for all the advice. You're light on long ranged stuff, which is risky. Jezzails and cannons or plagueclaws would let you work over those cavalry a bit before they get into range of your lines. There's some overlap in terms of role in your choices, too - death globes and flamethrowers essentially serve the same purpose of protecting flanks against breakthrough attacks. I'm not sure how you're using the rat ogres, but the only thing I can see them doing in a gun heavy army is flank protection. They won't be as good at it as the death globes or flamethrowers. Night runners don't have much of a place in a gunline army, they don't pack a strong punch at a distance and they aren't intended to hold still, so they'll just fall back into a skirmish while the rest of your line tries to stand and shoot it out.
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Feb 7, 2020 01:47
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rat ogres are a good choice for very defensive builds since a few rat ogres mixed with infantry can make charges very ineffective, avoids having a single entity chariot or whatever just perforating your lovely screens and can also tie poo poo down effectively. having something to terror rout stuff with it also good. and they smash anything like archers and give you more tactical flexibility which imo is always good. Wanna kill a wizard that is over that hill? now you can. Wanna destroy those shades that are hidden somewhere over there? etc etc
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Feb 7, 2020 01:59
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tithin posted:I had 4 plagueclaw but they're not that great? plagueclaws are outstanding, actually they also have a pretty hefty morale debuff when they hit something due to spookum gases, so they do even more damage then you might think. however, like all artillery they go from kinda "eh" to "oh, hey, each one has 200 kills" with experience. the laser cannons actually are more powerful but are a flat trajectory. they're also raised up so they can fire over your units, but any sort of hill in the map will still gently caress up your day.
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Feb 7, 2020 02:18
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Plagueclaws with vets + engineers with max army buffs + Lord with the applicable redline buffs + good unit made infinitely better
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Feb 7, 2020 02:25
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Any nerds know what these map changes mean? Note: not for Total War, for GW's eventual resurrection of the Old World (which was obviously due to Total War.) https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/cartography-in-the-old-worldgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/
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Feb 7, 2020 03:30
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Mordja posted:Any nerds know what these map changes mean? Note: not for Total War, for GW's eventual resurrection of the Old World (which was obviously due to Total War.) idk what they "mean", they just made nice new maps for the old world?
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Feb 7, 2020 03:38
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Also how do you decide where/how many unit recruitment buildings to build? Do you build duplicates in other provinces? Or just roll with having to pay extra for global recruitment? Coming off Tomb Kings I didn't know global recruitment could be so expensive! First, global recruitment is basically a last resort unless you are Empire, Tomb Kings, or on rare occasions High Elves (I think Tyrion has a -1 global time for Lothern Sea Guard) other than for recruiting to pad out your army with chaff (see below for why). It takes a long time and is incredibly expensive - it's normally faster and cheaper to recruit in recruitment provinces with two lords and then merge the stacks make it to the front lines than it is to recruit three or four of your units per turn globally. And you make more money with multiple income buildings in most settlements. Of course there are buildings which help recruitment and do other things; these tend to be more useful as you won't be recruiting a lot. Some factions have an alternative to global recruitment which is normally much better - Vampires (Coast and Counts) get to Raise Dead, and lots of them from battlefields and Dark Elves get black arks instead. It's entirely possible to play Vampires and never build a mainstream recruitment building, especially if you're a Vampire Coast shipbuilder. Second, the more buildings you can recruit a certain unit from the lower the global cost - and if you have ten or more you recruit them globally in single rather than double time and it only costs a little more than local recruitment (but you don't get bonus chevrons). You'll normally see this for Tier 0 troops like the tomb kings basic skeletons, which can be recruited from anywhere. For most factions doing this for higher rank troops is simply not worth it as you could have at least seven more gold (or teef or dark magic...) buildings instead and support much stronger doomstacks, especially with the way multiple armies increase upkeep. The Empire on the other hand has a Tier 3 building (the Armoury) that increases both global and local recruitment ranks by one which means that you can have a 3 region province with a capital, and two minor settlements each with a wall and a tier 3 gold generating building, and one with a Tier 3 barracks and the other with a tier 3 armoury. Gold still maxed out and your global recruitment gets ridiculous so you can recruit a stack of halberds and huntsmen (and preferably handguns and mortars) in a single turn. You only do this to a province once you've made tier 5 with the capital. The second trick with Empire global recruitment is if you have enough Imperial Academies in your province capitals you can push up to a Rank 16 Lord when you hire a Lord out of the pool. Rank 16 gives you pretty much everything you want from a one-shot Lord; seven dots in the Red line maxes out your bonuses for state troops and halberds, you need two more dots for Lords (for a griffon and Hold the Line), three for the Huntsman (unique skills), and four for the Arch Lector (barded horse and all three lector skills). Then you've some left over for Stand your Ground from red (three dots is expensive but it's an awesome skill) and blue (movement, recruitment cost - the only time I recommend this, recruit rank, Lightning Strike) or even yellow. This trick means that with Empire you don't need armies (and frequently not even walls) in your own lands - stack up the gold and you know you can recruit an army per turn with a solid general and armour piercing and/or anti-large, eventually with mortar support and any enemy will lose the attrition game. Dwarves should technically be able to get this ridiculous global snowball, but their +1 global building is tier 5 and getting dwarf cities to tier 5 is time consuming so it happens much later.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:59
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Yep, I think this Ikit Claw run is done, Bretonnia has 4 armies just absolutely curb stomping everything in my west, meanwhile Balthazar Gelt is at my north having just shown up the instant I've moved my north army and pivotted west to try and help backup Ikit It doesn't help that for some reason my ratling gunners are just straight up refusing to shoot down the hill? what the gently caress? I think I need those halberd storm vermin to help gently caress up Bretonnian knights a bunch because I just can't keep up with the number of armies they've sent crusading up my rear end and into my rat colon.
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Feb 7, 2020 05:28
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if you do another run try bullying sarsota for a bit, everyone hates them similarly don't make any deals with them, because everyone hates them.
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Feb 7, 2020 05:35
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Gamerofthegame posted:if you do another run try bullying sarsota for a bit, everyone hates them guess I found my problem, everything went to poo poo when I signed a NAP with them and it just led to a spiral of war decs over the next 20 turns.
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Feb 7, 2020 05:43
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They are a good "I want my short win conditions now, please" faction to ally with in Mortal Empires Greenskins campaigns at least!
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Feb 7, 2020 06:21
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Mordja posted:Any nerds know what these map changes mean? Note: not for Total War, for GW's eventual resurrection of the Old World (which was obviously due to Total War.) I am so loving excited for WHFB to come back. Even if it starts as Empire vs. Empire and slowly grows through campaign books to reintroduce the other factions. There's a lot of rich history they can mine in that setting.  Also, I've been wanting an Empire army for years and this would be the perfect excuse to finally do one. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 06:27
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The amount of models needed for tabletop seems daunting. I'm playing WH2 games where even average sword and board guys number 120 men to a formation, I can't imagine assembling and painting all those little dudes. For a while I was on an 40k imperial guard kick and when the new book came out years ago I had this whole idea of having multiple gunlines of Commissar led combined infantry platoons supported by the fancy leman Russ variants and even just assembling eighty rather samey lasgun redshirts was an absolute chore. In the end the PC games provided the fun more than shuffling dozens of models around. And gently caress WISYWYG, this Catachan Sergeant with chainsaws for hands is a Witch Hunter Lord and you are taking my word for it that he is equipped with  wargear.
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Feb 7, 2020 07:37
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That is something I hope they learn in the reboot. Fantasy died because you needed like 40 loving models for one unit and loving no one wants to sit up and paint like 200 models for one army, let alone buy that many at GW prices. So both for sanity reasons when it comes to making an army and budgetary reasons I hope they keep unit size small.
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Feb 7, 2020 07:46
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IIRC, a full, cost-effective lance of Empire Knights in WHFB was 10 models or so. Infantry units were a lot less kind in terms of model count, naturally.
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Feb 7, 2020 07:48
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Enigma posted:Their passives stack Also Warp Lightning is a great spell and two engineers can spam it more.
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Feb 7, 2020 09:05
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8th edition WHFB was a mess and GW pushed giant blocks of infantry way too hard. Monsters too. Cavalry was nerfed into uselessness, magic was made more powerful, etc., etc. I mostly played in 6th and 7th and while there was a gentle inflation in unit sizes thanks to some rules changes, it was nothing like 8th. 20 models was usually the most you'd see in a regiment with some outliers like goblins reaching 30 or sometimes even 40. Goblin players are and always have been insane though.
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Feb 7, 2020 09:12
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Agreed, 6th edition especially was an edition were being cost-efficient was paramount, cavalry units rarely went over six models (excluding Bretonnia) and infantry rank-and-file units very rarely went over 20-25 models.
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Feb 7, 2020 09:36
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Angry Lobster posted:Agreed, 6th edition especially was an edition were being cost-efficient was paramount, cavalry units rarely went over six models (excluding Bretonnia) and infantry rank-and-file units very rarely went over 20-25 models. I remember having a unit of 30 orcs that was considered a quite large unit for something that was not skaven or goblins at my local club during 6th edition.
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Feb 7, 2020 09:46
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Archaeology Hat posted:I remember having a unit of 30 orcs that was considered a quite large unit for something that was not skaven or goblins at my local club during 6th edition. Big Uns with two weapons in a six wide five deep formation, I guess? I can see it with orcs, who were relatively cheap and a model intensive army, but the general consensus at the time was that killy infantry was just not worth including in big blocks. That does not mean you could not do it for fun though, sometimes I used a big block of temple guards with a slann. The whole set up was incredibly expensive and absolutely not worth it in a competitive setting, but sometimes you just want to mash big blocks together and laugh about it while drinking some beer with buddies
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Feb 7, 2020 10:15
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tithin posted:I had 4 plagueclaw but they're not that great? The Warlock Engineers add army-wide buffs for a bunch of useful things for ranged units; their yellow skill line is amazing. The skills in the yellow line stack so multiple engineers means more ammo, better aim, ect. Also the Increase Mobility skill is super useful. Do you have any Jezzails in your army? Jezzails and Warp Lightning Cannons are essential for dealing with Cavalry of any sort. edit: and lords, monsters, and elite units. They are just great. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 15:14
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Angry Lobster posted:Big Uns with two weapons in a six wide five deep formation, I guess? I can see it with orcs, who were relatively cheap and a model intensive army, but the general consensus at the time was that killy infantry was just not worth including in big blocks. Yeah. They were basically a tarpit to allow the rest of my army to
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Feb 7, 2020 15:28
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Also, if memory serves, the warlocks stack multiplicatively, which is even better.
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Feb 7, 2020 15:29
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Snikch with two warlock engineers and all the associated skills and research makes gutter runners faster than (most) cav which is pretty hilarious
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Feb 7, 2020 17:18
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SFO had Dwarf engineers as a six man unit armed with grenade launchers. They had a +reload and accuracy aura that stacked with Engineer heroes (though not with themselves). You could hit the reload cap by stacking a unit of engineers with a few engineer heroes. They would be firing so fast they would often stun lock big monsters, it was hilarious.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:28
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With how VCoast are pretty much as big into gunlines + artillery as Skaven, it's a shame the Gunnery Wight is so much less impactful than a Warlock Engineer. They don't have any army-wide buffs to ammo, reload speed, damage, nothing. Just a 30m radius minor passive and somewhat nice active accuracy/reload buff with a 90 second cooldown. He's pretty much just an ammo-bot to keep Queen Bess topped off and not much use otherwise.
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Feb 7, 2020 20:30
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Anyone have any tips for cult of sotek? Starting the campaign without access to Saurus makes me completely baffled
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Feb 7, 2020 20:42
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Would also love some tips on how to do carstein on legendary. Without being able to get your starting province and still being friends with manny I have no idea what to do. Plus crushing templehof made the rest of the empire provinces hate you less - seems like it's always 1-2 turns between one province declaring war on me and the rest of them following suit whilst nearby dwarves start raiding me. Trying to tech to no upkeep skellies seems to take too long before I'm swarmed with empire stacks of halberdiers, crossbows, pistoliers and mortars.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:00
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Before when templehof was next door you could pretty much have 1 & 2/3rds provinces to start scaling up before doing any eternal hellwars, and you could box Manfred in with the dwarves to keep them both contained until he recruits ghorst and is ready for confederation.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:02
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Hargrimm posted:With how VCoast are pretty much as big into gunlines + artillery as Skaven, it's a shame the Gunnery Wight is so much less impactful than a Warlock Engineer. They don't have any army-wide buffs to ammo, reload speed, damage, nothing. Just a 30m radius minor passive and somewhat nice active accuracy/reload buff with a 90 second cooldown. He's pretty much just an ammo-bot to keep Queen Bess topped off and not much use otherwise. This is all very true, but I will say that I really enjoyed my full upgraded gunnery wight that basically had a sniper rifle that was also a shotgun.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:26
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I've only played VH Vlad, but the secret is to start as Isabella, wardec Manny, recruit Vlad and ambush Manny when he beelines for your capital. You can take Drakenhof a turn or two later ( you can do it with just Vlad, Isabella and the two vamp agents ), then shore up Western Sylvania before Stirland pinch them. By then you'll have positive relations with Stirland, and send your vamp agents to mess with the Orcs. You'll soon have trade agreements with Zhufbar and Karak Kadrin. At this point your biggest threats are Karak Hirn who won't like you and will bring other factions into a war against you, and any empire faction that doesn't like Stirland. You roleplay as the Elector count of Sylvania and navigate your way through the machinations of the other Elector counts ( and use all your vamp agents to expand your influence and overcome the Aversion and Great Power maluses ). Forget Manny, he's a chump, take Altdorf from a floundering Karl Franz while you have Dwarves and friendly Elector counts cheering from the sidelines.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:40
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Allying with Mannfred is a huge mistake. Crush him early, get that unique building and the gold mine, and go from there. It's not dissimilar from rushing Marienburg: if you don't get it early the AI's economic cheats are going to make it harder and harder.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:50
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Jeremor posted:This is all very true, but I will say that I really enjoyed my full upgraded gunnery wight that basically had a sniper rifle that was also a shotgun. yea but the wight doesn't hold a candle to the 800~ weapon strength ghoul who just casually removes spines I have yet to use a vampire in an actual army tho
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Feb 7, 2020 22:15
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Thanks. My dreams of having all of the VC legendaries is probably a pipe dream at that high a difficulty.
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Feb 7, 2020 22:25
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Gamerofthegame posted:yea but the wight doesn't hold a candle to the 800~ weapon strength ghoul who just casually removes spines Isabella with 9 vamps is good.
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Feb 7, 2020 22:26
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albany academy posted:Isabella with 9 vamps is good. Isabella's disco dance party is great fun. Just stuff in free skellies to serve as chaff and you are set.
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Feb 7, 2020 22:38
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How are you building Isabella's girl posse? Make them all Wind of Death casting nukes or melee fighters?
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Feb 7, 2020 22:51
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Isabella as a vampire caster, summons, invocation, and dance macabre are all great. One shadow and one death caster for the other vortex options if winds doesn't work out, rest melee fighters. Magic down elites, fight chaff and single entities with your vamps. I like including a few varghulfs to stomp down elite infantry for when you run out of magic. Eimi fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 22:54
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All of Isabella's vamps should have arcane conduit, so they can all funnel her more power for wind of death.
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Feb 7, 2020 23:00
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