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MomJeans420 posted:The weird thing is this isn't the first time that's happened re: Tesla removing features from a used car, so I don't know why it's getting so much traction now. To recap, you can purchase a feature for $6k that doesn't exist, if you sell the car to someone else they may remove it, but if you accidentally butt-purchase it from their app (happened a lot in December) they said they weren't able to remove it. After some backlash I think you now have 2 or 3 days to remove it, but a lot of people didn't notice it until they looked at their credit card bill. I'm sorry - how the gently caress do they justify removing a feature that has already been paid for? I mean, GM won't come out and remove optional power windows or something if you sell the car. As far as I'm concerned, anything that doesn't have a subscription attached is part of the car from that point forward. The dark side of OTA is it works both ways, I guess. gently caress that noise now and forever.
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Feb 7, 2020 19:53
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Lmao, oh good car features are DLC now. Can't wait for ABS to be an optional software upgrade.
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Feb 7, 2020 19:59
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CommieGIR posted:Can't wait for ABS to be an optional software upgrade. But on a subscription basis.
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Feb 7, 2020 20:06
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But remember this is what full self driving means now, a non-zero chance of getting from point A to point B with no intervention. I could put a brick on my gas pedal and tape my dog's paws to the steering wheel and there's still a > 0 chance the car gets from point A to point B.
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Feb 7, 2020 20:16
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Luxrage posted:Inside of every big truck is a little truck trying to break free. That’s actually reasonably priced. The no title thing is scary though.
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Feb 7, 2020 20:16
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Darchangel posted:I'm sorry - how the gently caress do they justify removing a feature that has already been paid for? There isn't really a good analogy to other car features, because cars haven't really worked this way, but I guess it's - somebody bought the car and paid for the nice wheels, tesla bought it back and put the poo poo wheels back on and resold it. Although, in this case, that has to be modified further, because they resold it, then came and swapped the wheels out in the end owner's driveway. Also, it's entirely unclear who actually represented to anybody anything about whether wheels were on the car or not. Welcome to late stage capitalism! MomJeans420 posted:But remember this is what full self driving means now, a non-zero chance of getting from point A to point B with no intervention. I could put a brick on my gas pedal and tape my dog's paws to the steering wheel and there's still a > 0 chance the car gets from point A to point B. Maybe not with MY dog, as she's a little person, but certainly A dog. Ah, heck, even with my dog, it's still non-zero! Krakkles fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 20:29
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CommieGIR posted:Lmao, oh good car features are DLC now. Can't wait for ABS to be an optional software upgrade. Close enough! https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/05/how-a-software-brake-upgrade-won-tesla-a-consumer-reports-endorsement/
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Feb 7, 2020 20:49
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quote:"The fact that Tesla engineers were able to slash nearly 20 feet of stopping distance in a couple of days is a sign that there was something fundamentally broken in what they were doing," Abuelsamid concludes. "Given the speed of this update, it's likely that Tesla hasn't even evaluated those other surfaces yet and this may not be the last braking-related update for the Model 3." You don't say
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Feb 7, 2020 20:57
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Move fast, break things!
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Feb 7, 2020 21:05
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MomJeans420 posted:But remember this is what full self driving means now, a non-zero chance of getting from point A to point B with no intervention. I could put a brick on my gas pedal and tape my dog's paws to the steering wheel and there's still a > 0 chance the car gets from point A to point B. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9WgtlgGAgs
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Feb 7, 2020 21:28
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Darchangel posted:Move fast, FTFY
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Feb 8, 2020 00:39
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At first I thought this was going to be that I crashed my car into a bridge song, which also works
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Feb 8, 2020 00:40
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CommieGIR posted:Lmao, oh good car features are DLC now. Can't wait for ABS to be an optional software upgrade. Isn't this what Boeing essentially did with the 737 Max?
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Feb 8, 2020 00:52
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MomJeans420 posted:Wrong thread? MomJeans420 posted:Do we have any specs on it? Is it RWD? It looks like a Freightliner M2 106 underneath, which would be RWD and have a Cat C7, Cummins ISL or ISB
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Feb 8, 2020 01:23
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Imagined posted:Isn't this what Boeing essentially did with the 737 Max? No
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Feb 8, 2020 01:55
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Huh https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/business/boeing-safety-features-charge.html
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Feb 8, 2020 02:00
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Still no.
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Feb 8, 2020 02:06
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Offering a non-redundant instrument option isn't quite DLC level yet - but it's not exactly responsible, either. Additionally, perhaps Boeing should have loving considered who the operators for those cheap options would be and what the long-term implications might be. It's not Tesla DLC fuckery, but it certainly killed a bunch more people 
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Feb 8, 2020 03:06
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It’s a complete loving disaster but making it out to be a DLC is stupid and oversimplification at best
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Feb 8, 2020 06:49
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Lol Jesus Christ. Can't wait for the threads ten years from now about how everyone misses their ICE cars 
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Feb 9, 2020 16:59
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Lol Jesus Christ. Can't wait for the threads ten years from now about how everyone misses their ICE cars People ripping out management systems from RC cars to replace bricked cars. All that aside the problem isnt EVs. It's this idiotic idea where things are being replaced by subscriptions. Commodifying ownership through rent seeking.
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Feb 9, 2020 17:05
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Lol Jesus Christ. Can't wait for the threads ten years from now about how everyone misses their ICE cars Looking at the past with rose tinted glasses is the quintessential human experience
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Feb 9, 2020 17:22
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Lol Jesus Christ. Can't wait for the threads ten years from now about how everyone misses their ICE cars Just wait until the road taxes really start to kick in.
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Feb 9, 2020 17:40
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C-Bangin' it 
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Rigged Death Trap posted:People ripping out management systems from RC cars to replace bricked cars. But EVs make it way easier to do it with cars that's the problem. I don't ever have to worry about monthly payments to keep the cooled seats in my 2011 Lexus. angryrobots posted:Looking at the past with rose tinted glasses is the quintessential human experience Funny, I was just watching an old Pearl Jam concert from like 1991 and the comment with the most likes and replies was along the lines of "Was at that concert in a better time with no cell phones and worrying about getting likes on social media just having a good time." Guess I'm guilty of wearing the glasses too because I agree
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Feb 9, 2020 17:43
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Guess I'm guilty of wearing the glasses too because I agree You filthy luddite. Heh, I am too even after being involved in the tech sector my entire life.
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Feb 9, 2020 18:07
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I mean that in more of the historical context, there have been many transitions over the years of human history where entire job sectors were created and eroded as new technologies manifested. I didn't mean it in any derogatory way, it just seems to be part of the human experience to resist change at the point it becomes unstoppable.
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Feb 9, 2020 18:24
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Applebees Appetizer posted:But EVs make it way easier to do it with cars that's the problem. I not sure what makes you think this problem will remain unique to electric cars.
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Feb 9, 2020 18:38
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angryrobots posted:I mean that in more of the historical context, there have been many transitions over the years of human history where entire job sectors were created and eroded as new technologies manifested. I didn't mean it in any derogatory way, it just seems to be part of the human experience to resist change at the point it becomes unstoppable. Oh sure, buggy whips and all...I get it.
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Feb 9, 2020 18:46
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I not sure what makes you think this problem will remain unique to electric cars. Yeah like I said. The new Golf will always have the hardware for adaptive cruise control but the function will be a software upgrade that you can purchase later if you wish to. No idea if it will be tied to the car then or if the functionality will be lost when you sell the car. It's not EVs, it new cars in general that will do that kind of poo poo.
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Feb 9, 2020 19:27
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I not sure what makes you think this problem will remain unique to electric cars. I don't think it will be unique to them, just more widespread and common with EVs because ICE cars will be a thing of the past.
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Feb 9, 2020 19:27
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I not sure what makes you think this problem will remain unique to electric cars. Seriously. There are plenty of examples of things in cars that can be enabled/disabled by software. The problem is primarily the DLC/subscription mindset, but it's exacerbated by CONNECTIVITY. If your car can't phone home none of this is an issue. If it can, then this can (and probably will) happen. Without spending too much mental energy I'm already coming up with several examples in the the EARLY 2000s of "things that you can enable with software/a cable" that need almost no additional hardware and absolutely no additional wiring (because most companies have harnesses that are standard for all options, and just don't add the physical button/sensor/cd changer/whatever. Lots of infotainment features, Boxster "OBC", several auto headlight features........ Motronic fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 9, 2020 |
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Feb 9, 2020 19:32
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Shai-Hulud posted:Yeah like I said. The new Golf will always have the hardware for adaptive cruise control but the function will be a software upgrade that you can purchase later if you wish to. No idea if it will be tied to the car then or if the functionality will be lost when you sell the car. Software unlock when Similar to the i3 extra fuel tank capacity / hold battery charge mode
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Feb 9, 2020 19:33
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Funny, I was just watching an old Pearl Jam concert from like 1991 and the comment with the most likes and replies was along the lines of "Was at that concert in a better time with no cell phones and worrying about getting likes on social media just having a good time." Nothing rose tinted glasses about that. I saw a couple shows recently where phones were banned, and they were amazing. People were just enjoying the music and not staring at it through their phones the whole time. And not having people in front of you constantly block your view. It was so good and I wish more artists did that.
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Feb 9, 2020 20:03
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Has anyone in the history of the Solar System ever watched someone else's (or even their own?) phone footage of a concert or fireworks or anything like that? I might be more sympathetic if I thought someone, even the owner, might actually watch them again later, but I seriously doubt it.
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Feb 9, 2020 20:42
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I always mean to but I can hear myself singing along on the recording and it ruins it. Yeah, I'm that guy.
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Feb 9, 2020 20:54
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Imagined posted:Has anyone in the history of the Solar System ever watched someone else's (or even their own?) phone footage of a concert or fireworks or anything like that? I might be more sympathetic if I thought someone, even the owner, might actually watch them again later, but I seriously doubt it.
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Feb 9, 2020 20:54
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Applebees Appetizer posted:But EVs make it way easier to do it with cars that's the problem. man, PJ was so goddamned good right out the gate. i love their live recordings from the 90s. idk though, i dont feel like phones really changed concerts that much?
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Feb 9, 2020 21:13
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Motronic posted:Seriously. There are plenty of examples of things in cars that can be enabled/disabled by software. The problem is primarily the DLC/subscription mindset, but it's exacerbated by CONNECTIVITY. If your car can't phone home none of this is an issue. If it can, then this can (and probably will) happen. Its also exasperated by how Tesla/Musk views car "ownership": You don't own the car, you LICENSE it. This isn't a problem with the BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, etc. Its almost entirely a Tesla only issue.
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Feb 9, 2020 21:59
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angryrobots posted:I mean that in more of the historical context, there have been many transitions over the years of human history where entire job sectors were created and eroded as new technologies manifested. I didn't mean it in any derogatory way, it just seems to be part of the human experience to resist change at the point it becomes unstoppable. The thing is though: The luddites were right They didnt resist the change of automatic looms since 'RAH CHANGE BAD'. New technologies are generally welcomed. They resisted the change because they saw the writing on the wall: The places they worked for were going to discard them with no pay or even thanks, and they will not see a single cent of the benefit and profits automation would bring even though it was their labor that allowed the company to implement it. People are resistant to change that disproportionally does not benefit them.
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Feb 9, 2020 22:15
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I didn't say anything about the Luddites, someone else made that reference.
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Feb 9, 2020 22:24
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