UKMT February 2020 - horny for shepherdess feet

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blues thief: Apr 1, 2013

I don't really care for any of the leadership candidates, but it seems like RLB's worth the vote just to get open selections. From what I understand, that's pretty much the best shot we've got at keeping Labour on a leftward trajectory. After that, we'll likely have a much better array of candidates to choose from and she'll have served her purpose.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 11:25

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# ? May 20, 2024 20:21

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Borrovan posted:

We won't be allowed to win with a stealth-socialist either.

But regardless of what's allowed, we can't win with a candidate who can't energise our core base, and no way am I knocking on any doors telling people that actually our migrant friends & neighbours can go gently caress themselves.

I can see that there might be a line of thinking that Brexit's gonna be over by the next GE so we should just try to avoid pissing off as many people as possible for the interim, but the fact is that the fate of our EU comrades is gonna be decided in the next year or two and we should be fighting tooth and nail to make them welcome.

To be honest with you, after 2019 I'm really skeptical that the ground game actually makes a difference. At least the door knocking aspect. Community events and help on a regular basis probably does, but we don't do enough of that and knocking on someone's door two weeks before an election just isn't cutting through and drowning out everything the media can do.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 11:35

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Borrovan posted:

We won't be allowed to win with a stealth-socialist either.

But regardless of what's allowed, we can't win with a candidate who can't energise our core base, and no way am I knocking on any doors telling people that actually our migrant friends & neighbours can go gently caress themselves.

I can see that there might be a line of thinking that Brexit's gonna be over by the next GE so we should just try to avoid pissing off as many people as possible for the interim, but the fact is that the fate of our EU comrades is gonna be decided in the next year or two and we should be fighting tooth and nail to make them welcome.

Corbyn's fallen head first into the "migrants keeping wages low" trap too though, and it's only his considerable past antiracist credentials that got him a pass on that.

I don't think RLB is inherently anti-migrant, but what matters is what the membership is saying and where the national discussion is by the time of the next election.

Which is likely one of two places, either "migrants aren't keeping wages low, it's the institutional deregulation and economic damage caused by the Conservatives" or "we will also gently caress over migrants but look a bit sad about it".

# ? Feb 10, 2020 11:35

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/peterjukes/status/1226821873163481088?s=19

# ? Feb 10, 2020 11:57

Olpainless: Jun 30, 2003; ... Insert something brilliantly witty here.

Not even pretending to be coy about wanting to Fox News it up.

gently caress.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 12:02

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Olpainless posted:

Not even pretending to be coy about wanting to Fox News it up.

gently caress.

They don't want to Fox News it up, they want to kill it off.

https://twitter.com/RossMcCaff/status/1226825109895249921?s=20

Anyway, here's the BBC inviting absolute loving cretins on their politics programmes as per, making it exceptionally easy for the Tories to end the Beeb.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 12:09

Borrovan: Aug 15, 2013; IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY

Guavanaut posted:

hat matters is what the membership is saying and where the national discussion is by the time of the next election.

We're not passive actors in this though. Whoever wins will be the Leader of Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition, and it's their job to hold the Government to account. I want someone who will spend the next year or two shouting from the rooftops about all the racisms that Johnson's definitely gonna be doing, steering the public discourse towards racism actually being bad, defending our comrades to the hilt.

I remember Corbyn talking in the same direction, and imo the key difference is that he talked about the bosses exploiting migrant workers to drive down wages. The thread had a big argument about it at the time, since although it's a subtle shift in rhetoric it was very obviously designed so that racists would hear it how they wanted, but there was no indication that he was personally prepared to put any blame whatsoever on the migrants themselves (his anti-racist credentials also helped with this), whereas RLB's just expressly done that. I don't think she's anti-migrant, but she's not giving us any indication that she's got the strength of character to resist anti-migrant rhetoric. She couldn't go 20 loving seconds ffs.

Miftan posted:

To be honest with you, after 2019 I'm really skeptical that the ground game actually makes a difference. At least the door knocking aspect. Community events and help on a regular basis probably does, but we don't do enough of that and knocking on someone's door two weeks before an election just isn't cutting through and drowning out everything the media can do.

Eh, as a prolific door-knocker I respectfully disagree. I think a lot of canvassers overstate the impact, since a lot of people will just say they'll vote your way to make you gently caress off quicker, but there's also a lot of people (old folk in particular) that will enthusiastically turn out for the party that just bothered to come out to talk to them. GTVO is also a big deal. Here's what I had to say about the 2019 election back in early November:

Borrovan posted:

Personally if Corbyn doesn't make gains I'm gonna be blaming the fact that a December election is a massive loving disadvantage to us. It will be bad for turnout (i.e., bad for us), and a lot of the fair-weather canvassers won't bother either. As well as the obvious disenfranchisement.

It was loving grim out down my way, I got soaked every day I was out there, we didn't seem to have anything like the ground game we had in 2017 (I might have said otherwise at the time but I was lying to keep spirits up)

e: like seriously there's only 2 ways of getting your message out there, if we're not prepared to play ball with billionaire press barons it's ground game or nothing

Borrovan fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Feb 10, 2020

# ? Feb 10, 2020 12:39

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://twitter.com/driscolltheque/status/1226254944048734210

A thread well worth clicking through, and yet another entry for my list of "Businesses in London that have something deeply odd about them within walking distance of intelligence agency HQs"

Good to see that Terry Pratchett's spirit has started leaking directly into the real world.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 12:47

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Borrovan posted:

We're not passive actors in this though. Whoever wins will be the Leader of Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition, and it's their job to hold the Government to account. I want someone who will spend the next year or two shouting from the rooftops about all the racisms that Johnson's definitely gonna be doing, steering the public discourse towards racism actually being bad, defending our comrades to the hilt.

I remember Corbyn talking in the same direction, and imo the key difference is that he talked about the bosses exploiting migrant workers to drive down wages. The thread had a big argument about it at the time, since although it's a subtle shift in rhetoric it was very obviously designed so that racists would hear it how they wanted, but there was no indication that he was personally prepared to put any blame whatsoever on the migrants themselves (his anti-racist credentials also helped with this), whereas RLB's just expressly done that. I don't think she's anti-migrant, but she's not giving us any indication that she's got the strength of character to resist anti-migrant rhetoric. She couldn't go 20 loving seconds ffs.

Right, but a leader that listens to the membership will be best placed to change their stance and put that forward, whereas the ones who are locking the membership out will be best placed to ignore all our actions to change the conversation and go for sensible amounts of triangulated racism, or actually migrant exploitation is good for the economy, depending on whether they're more blue or more piss yellow.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 12:47

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Borrovan posted:

We're not passive actors in this though. Whoever wins will be the Leader of Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition, and it's their job to hold the Government to account. I want someone who will spend the next year or two shouting from the rooftops about all the racisms that Johnson's definitely gonna be doing, steering the public discourse towards racism actually being bad, defending our comrades to the hilt.

I remember Corbyn talking in the same direction, and imo the key difference is that he talked about the bosses exploiting migrant workers to drive down wages. The thread had a big argument about it at the time, since although it's a subtle shift in rhetoric it was very obviously designed so that racists would hear it how they wanted, but there was no indication that he was personally prepared to put any blame whatsoever on the migrants themselves (his anti-racist credentials also helped with this), whereas RLB's just expressly done that. I don't think she's anti-migrant, but she's not giving us any indication that she's got the strength of character to resist anti-migrant rhetoric. She couldn't go 20 loving seconds ffs.

Eh, as a prolific door-knocker I respectfully disagree. I think a lot of canvassers overstate the impact, since a lot of people will just say they'll vote your way to make you gently caress off quicker, but there's also a lot of people (old folk in particular) that will enthusiastically turn out for the party that just bothered to come out to talk to them. GTVO is also a big deal. Here's what I had to say about the 2019 election back in early November:

It was loving grim out down my way, I got soaked every day I was out there, we didn't seem to have anything like the ground game we had in 2017 (I might have said otherwise at the time but I was lying to keep spirits up)

I had the opposite experience in basically every regard canvassing in Yorkshire. Maybe 1 person per session who was open to changing their mind. Maybe. I'm pretty disheartened atm tbh and I'm not sure where to go from here other than more non-parliamentary action.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 12:48

Borrovan: Aug 15, 2013; IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY

Guavanaut posted:

Right, but a leader that listens to the membership will be best placed to change their stance and put that forward, whereas the ones who are locking the membership out will be best placed to ignore all our actions to change the conversation and go for sensible amounts of triangulated racism, or actually migrant exploitation is good for the economy, depending on whether they're more blue or more piss yellow.

Fair, but all this really says is "other candidates shittier" rather than "RLB not poo poo"

e: & thinking about it, Starmer's likely to get a lot more second prefs from Thornberry supporters than RLB, so bumping RLB down to second would probably actually work in his favour anyway since Thornberry's not likely to make the second round. Tactical "not Starmer" vote it is, then.

Miftan posted:

I had the opposite experience in basically every regard canvassing in Yorkshire. Maybe 1 person per session who was open to changing their mind. Maybe. I'm pretty disheartened atm tbh and I'm not sure where to go from here other than more non-parliamentary action.

It's this, and lots of it. The current amount is almost none, so that's where I'm putting all of my effort.

I'm guessing Yorkshire outside the cities is Brexity as gently caress though, so maybe a key difference would have been the Tory shenanigans. They basically magicked up their own "ground game" throwing a bunch of money at the dodgy social media poo poo. Hard to know what to do about that tactic more specifically.

Don't draw too many conclusions from 2019 only, it was a bit of an aberration for many reasons. In 2017 it was our ground game that gave us gains.

Borrovan fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Feb 10, 2020

# ? Feb 10, 2020 13:08

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

If you want a candidate who is going to effectively call the government out when things go wrong you will never have a better candidate then the literal ex head of the Crown Prosecution Service.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 13:41

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

how cute

# ? Feb 10, 2020 13:51

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Alchenar posted:

If you want a candidate who is going to effectively call the government out when things go wrong you will never have a better candidate then the literal ex head of the Crown Prosecution Service.

Yes, a socialist mass movement should always put its trust in technocrats and lawyers.

Remember that the law isn't morality, and Starmer hasn't shown much evidence of being able to think outside the box and display strong leadership rooted in strongly-held morals when things go off-script.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 13:57

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Borrovan posted:

Fair, but all this really says is "other candidates shittier" rather than "RLB not poo poo"

e: & thinking about it, Starmer's likely to get a lot more second prefs from Thornberry supporters than RLB, so bumping RLB down to second would probably actually work in his favour anyway since Thornberry's not likely to make the second round. Tactical "not Starmer" vote it is, then.

It's this, and lots of it. The current amount is almost none, so that's where I'm putting all of my effort.

I'm guessing Yorkshire outside the cities is Brexity as gently caress though, so maybe a key difference would have been the Tory shenanigans. They basically magicked up their own "ground game" throwing a bunch of money at the dodgy social media poo poo. Hard to know what to do about that tactic more specifically.

Don't draw too many conclusions from 2019 only, it was a bit of an aberration for many reasons. In 2017 it was our ground game that gave us gains.

I've already joined the IWW partly because of you! Don't really know what else to do right now other than throw whatever cash I can at things.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:02

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Darth Walrus posted:

Yes, a socialist mass movement should always put its trust in technocrats and lawyers.

Remember that the law isn't morality, and Starmer hasn't shown much evidence of being able to think outside the box and display strong leadership rooted in strongly-held morals when things go off-script.

Yeah but... theres no candidate doing that? At least with Starmer you have a candidate who's job for decades was to convince ordinary people that he'd caught someone in a lie. If theres not much on the table take what's there. The next leadership election is the one that really matters anyway.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:05

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Alchenar posted:

The next leadership election is the one that really matters anyway.

In that case you should be voting based on whoever is going to empower the membership the most.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:17

Doctor_Fruitbat: Jun 2, 2013

Alchenar posted:

At least with Starmer you have a candidate who's job for decades was to convince ordinary people that he'd caught someone in a lie.

If there's one thing that has really characterised the past few years, it's good faith politics where people are held to account for their lies.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:27

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Prince John posted:

Why's the finger jabby person having a go at RLB for what Starmer is saying? Stupid twat.

Because that was in 2017 and as I recall Starmer was going off on his own thing about how we should keep everything the same when we leave the EU.

Again corbyn was saying that in 2017. Because the party was trying to appeal to the jabby finger lot.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Feb 10, 2020

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:40

Rustybear: Nov 16, 2006; what the thunder said

Alchenar posted:

Yeah but... theres no candidate doing that? At least with Starmer you have a candidate who's job for decades was to convince ordinary people that he'd caught someone in a lie. If theres not much on the table take what's there. The next leadership election is the one that really matters anyway.

Lol in what world is the debate nerd a good pick; at least say Starmer looks good on telly in his suit or brexit voters wont vote for a woman or something half-way believable.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:47

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

by Alan Johnson, age 8½

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:50

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I genuinely don't know if a lot of you aren't aware of when that clip is from or what the rest of the party was saying at the time so I again post the recent interview with RLB where she addresses the same question:

OwlFancier posted:

E2: yes she literally completely contradicts the 2017 clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8eJDaOgV0&t=2552s

"The fact is that the number of migrants coming into the country is not depressing wages"

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:56

Hallucinogenic Toreador: Nov 21, 2000; Whoooooahh I'd be
Nothin' without you
Baaaaaa-by

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51447761

quote:

A GP practice in Brighton has been temporarily closed after a staff member tested positive for the coronavirus.
Patients at the city's County Oak medical centre have been advised to contact the NHS 111 phone service if they have concerns.
Eight people in the UK have now been infected by the coronavirus.
The Department of Health has called the virus a "serious and imminent threat" to public health, but the overall risk level to the UK remains "moderate".

Since the virus is spread before any symptoms are apparent, once you have cases appearing without knowing who they caught it from there's no real way to stop it spreading. Game over, I guess.

Edit: The story has been updated and it seems like the new case is a doctor who treated another known case, so it's not so bad, but still not great.

Hallucinogenic Toreador fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Feb 10, 2020

# ? Feb 10, 2020 14:57

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1226829525679513600?s=21

lol

Maybe the coronavirus will get to make some friends when we release whatever's been breeding down in Beaufort's Dyke.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:01

Borrovan: Aug 15, 2013; IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY

Miftan posted:

I've already joined the IWW partly because of you! Don't really know what else to do right now other than throw whatever cash I can at things.

Great news! PM me if you need any support organising up there & I'll see what I can do. Keep an eye on your email for calls for candidates, too, there's a bunch of vacant offices and we need good people. Dont be intimidated, I stood for office before even attending a meeting & it's worked out great, the offices are whatever the incumbent makes them. There might be requirements to have been a member for a certain time for some of them, but the DEC might be able to waive them.

Incidentally we desperately need a good comms officer rn, so if anyone ITT has good social media skills and/or media contacts PLEASE JOIN IWW.

OwlFancier posted:

I genuinely don't know if a lot of you aren't aware of when that clip is from or what the rest of the party was saying at the time so I again post the recent interview with RLB where she addresses the same question:

Lmao I missed this post, I've just been flipping out all morning for nothing. D'oh. Ignore my posts today, unless they're good, in which case HEED MY WORDS.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:06

Ratjaculation: Aug 3, 2007

Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51447761

Since the virus is spread before any symptoms are apparent, once you have cases appearing without knowing who they caught it from there's no real way to stop it spreading. Game over, I guess.

how wil this affect meal deals?

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:08

Pilchenstein: May 17, 2012; So your plan is for half of us to die?; Hot Rope Guy

Alchenar posted:

If you want a candidate who is going to effectively call the government out when things go wrong you will never have a better candidate then the literal ex head of the Crown Prosecution Service.

Aren't you a tory? :v:

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:09

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

forkboy84 posted:

They don't want to Fox News it up, they want to kill it off.

https://twitter.com/RossMcCaff/status/1226825109895249921?s=20

Anyway, here's the BBC inviting absolute loving cretins on their politics programmes as per, making it exceptionally easy for the Tories to end the Beeb.

https://mobile.twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1226640279501000711
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1226859487274917890
Just a starry-eyed, working class lad from County Durham who stumbled accidentally into politics.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:12

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51447761

Since the virus is spread before any symptoms are apparent, once you have cases appearing without knowing who they caught it from there's no real way to stop it spreading. Game over, I guess.

It's getting proper scary. Apparently a vaccine could take as long as a year, even 6 months would be considered a miracle. It's hard to imagine the virus not infecting most of the world's population by then.

It's starting to feel unavoidable

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:18

Saros: Dec 29, 2009; Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

Coronavirus is still not a real concern in the UK at this point. The key things is none of the cases are of unknown origin, this current batch is literally all from a bunch of doctors and their families going skiing in France.

Basically right now the name of the game is keeping as tight a lid on it until a vaccine can be developed and tested.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:30

Ratjaculation: Aug 3, 2007

Saros posted:

Coronavirus is still not a real concern in the UK at this point. The key things is none of the cases are of unknown origin, this current batch is literally all from a bunch of doctors and their families going skiing in France.

Basically right now the name of the game is keeping as tight a lid on it until a vaccine can be developed and tested.

The solution is baseless wild panic

like the papers are telling me

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:44

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

Julio Cruz posted:

imagine being on a lifeboat crew and having to go out today because some loving idiot thought it would be a good day to go surfing

apparently the lifeboat that went out nearly capsized because of the storm

they should have just left the oval office out there imo

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:44

Jippa: Feb 13, 2009

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1226881066050478082

# ? Feb 10, 2020 15:51

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

Saros posted:

Basically right now the name of the game is keeping as tight a lid on it until a vaccine can be developed and tested.

I'm moving to Madagascar and/or Greenland and closing the ports

# ? Feb 10, 2020 16:02

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I'm probably not going to die from it but the tory voter base is.

Shame about everyone else, though.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 16:06

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

It's getting proper scary. Apparently a vaccine could take as long as a year, even 6 months would be considered a miracle. It's hard to imagine the virus not infecting most of the world's population by then.

It's starting to feel unavoidable

Conversely though the death rate for those known to be infected is plummeting as the sample size gets larger and less self-selecting - that is, in the early days, it appeared to be highly fatal because it was only being tested for in people already in hospital with secondary pneumonia (who in turn were often those with other pre-existing conditions).

AIUI now that we're actively looking for it (and finding it) in otherwise-healthy people we can make a much clearer estimate at how likely people are to die from it, which it turns out isn't much worse than most flu strains. Which isn't to say that's not a bad thing - people are going to die from it - but that it's not the world-ender that it might have looked even last week.

Even though nobody asked, I've downgraded my own personal health woes from "definitely coronavirus possibly with ebola" to "probably just a nasty cold", because weirdly my lungs seem to have rejected the idea of infection and pushed it all straight back into my nose, which is producing John Selwyn-Gummer levels of mucus but other than that I'm fine.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 16:07

Z the IVth: Jan 28, 2009; The trouble with your "expendable machines"; Fun Shoe

OwlFancier posted:

I'm probably not going to die from it but the tory voter base is.

Shame about everyone else, though.

Pray it doesn't get loose in the HoP or we're going to be having a lot of by-elections.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 16:16

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Jippa posted:

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1226881066050478082

I'm getting pretty scared he actually believes this is a viable idea.

Boris you coward, do the bridge across to the Mull of Kintyre

# ? Feb 10, 2020 16:16

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I can put a plank of wood across a lump of cheese if you like? At least for a few minutes before I eat the cheese.

# ? Feb 10, 2020 16:19

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# ? May 20, 2024 20:21

Saith: Oct 10, 2010; Asahina...
Regular Penguins look just the same!

Oh man, I guess Pratchett was wrong, and Pestilence is making a comeback.

Goddamn, and Max Brookes was right about something. The world-ending plague started in China.

This is our chance! The unemployed, who never have reason to leave their homes, will be the only ones to survive. (Non-)workers of the world unite!!!

Saith fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Feb 10, 2020

# ? Feb 10, 2020 16:30

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