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I mean one of the earliest episodes is with Wesley Crusher sentenced to death for stepping on the flowers and it ended with Picard facing them down on a "it's your laws, and we are guests and should abide by the rules you hold to but gently caress y'all we out". Classic Picard couldn't have walked by that sign without doing something and I loved the moment, especially with the former-Senator's little speech. I just didn't like that it was all in service to the samurai elf joining up. A good scene that didn't quite stick the landing.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:22
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Picard will always act like the D is dangling between his legs.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:24
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Brawnfire posted:Yeah, don't really like it. It looks like some kitbash or a no-name escort in a videogame. Looks straight up like a prequel or sequel version of a rebel ship from the regular Star Warses. Kind of like they took the shoelace-tripping ships and made it more different to sell a new lego model of the same old poo poo.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:26
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Gwaihir posted:I've been back to back watching TNG in between these Picard show eps and I think this particular ep nailed a huge number of very spot on character beats from TNG perfectly. But youtube said it's bad though?!
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Feb 15, 2020 01:36
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:But youtube said it's bad though?! Hell, if you believe YouTube (or even SA), there’s been no good Star Trek since 1993. Picard isn’t a perfect show, but it’s about on par with above-average Trek on the whole.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:48
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I would love to see a global mind-wipe occur so that we could see the internet react fresh to a TNG released again for the first time. I imagine it probably wouldn't be nearly as much as today, people would just stop watching at the Ferengi episode.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:49
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Every freelance independent ship we saw in TNG or DS9 looked like a vaguely triangular lump of orange or brown poo poo that shared basically no design language with Federation stuff. Why would this one be any different? So it’s pointier and has red paint, who gives a poo poo? Why is this such a predominant nitpick?
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Feb 15, 2020 01:52
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Khanstant posted:I would love to see a global mind-wipe occur so that we could see the internet react fresh to a TNG released again for the first time. I imagine it probably wouldn't be nearly as much as today, people would just stop watching at the Ferengi episode. I watched Encounter At Farpoint last month to get ready for Picard and I was ready to give up on it before Part II started. Like literally asking out loud "how the gently caress did this show survive its first season?"
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Feb 15, 2020 01:53
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Every freelance independent ship we saw in TNG or DS9 looked like a vaguely triangular lump of orange or brown poo poo that shared basically no design language with Federation stuff. Why would this one be any different? So it’s pointier and has red paint, who gives a poo poo? Why is this such a predominant nitpick? Yeah. I always had a sense that TOS movie to TNG era Starfleet didn't just accidentally have ships that looked nice, but it was also a prestige thing for these vessels that would represent the Federation to be beautiful objects.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:55
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nine-gear crow posted:I watched Encounter At Farpoint last month to get ready for Picard and I was ready to give up on it before Part II started. Like literally asking out loud "how the gently caress did this show survive its first season?" I’ve mentioned a few times that I love going back and reading live reactions to episodes on the archived Usenet groups. Nothing has changed. Like, In The Pale Moonlight was whined about when it first aired. Lol
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Feb 15, 2020 01:58
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Every freelance independent ship we saw in TNG or DS9 looked like a vaguely triangular lump of orange or brown poo poo that shared basically no design language with Federation stuff. Why would this one be any different? So it’s pointier and has red paint, who gives a poo poo? Why is this such a predominant nitpick? Personally I'd just like a cuter ship. It's an opportunity to make anything, I wish it had just been a bit more whimsical of a design. Maybe the Sirena will grow on me as I see more of it in action, but it doesn't really stand out to me. I'm used to the ship being as much of a character as the crew.
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Feb 15, 2020 02:01
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Every freelance independent ship we saw in TNG or DS9 looked like a vaguely triangular lump of orange or brown poo poo that shared basically no design language with Federation stuff. Why would this one be any different? So it’s pointier and has red paint, who gives a poo poo? Why is this such a predominant nitpick? It's the same as a lot of the other things the usual chorus complain about, and you could have almost written a bingo card for it before the first trailer was even aired. There isn't actually very much at all to really criticise Picard for so people fall back to dumb repetition of unfunny jokes (and will repeat the same ones for the next ten years), and complaining that thing is buzzword. The ship is Mass Effect, even though it looks like something straight out of Star Trek Online and has the design language of the Federation all over it. The show is "grimdark" even though people aren't being fed into meat grinding hell wars and even the displaced Romulans are living to a relatively okay looking standard. They did the same thing with Discovery, even though that show has far more scope for actual criticism. Khanstant posted:I would love to see a global mind-wipe occur so that we could see the internet react fresh to a TNG released again for the first time. I imagine it probably wouldn't be nearly as much as today, people would just stop watching at the Ferengi episode. We'd see exactly the same irrational and dishonest reactions as Picard and Discovery had. We know this for fact because it actually happened back then. nine-gear crow posted:I watched Encounter At Farpoint last month to get ready for Picard and I was ready to give up on it before Part II started. Like literally asking out loud "how the gently caress did this show survive its first season?" Yeah, there's one, if not two entire seasons of TNG that are worse than anything we've seen from Picard or Discovery. It's shocking when you go back to watch them because you have to work to get to the good stuff. It'd absolutely be cancelled after Farpoint today. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 02:02
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HD DAD posted:I’ve mentioned a few times that I love going back and reading live reactions to episodes on the archived Usenet groups. Nothing has changed. Like, In The Pale Moonlight was whined about when it first aired. Lol If I recall, people lost their poo poo over that one because they thought Dukat was actually the hero of DS9 and they were mad when the writers punched through the 4th wall and went "NO, HE'S THE BAD GUY YOU IDIOTS." and claimed it ruined his character forever. When really it was one of the best outings for Marc Alaimo as an actor because Dukat became the full embodiment of all his seething, lingering hatreds for Bajor and the Federation and Cardassia itself in that episode. Lovely Joe Stalin posted:It's the same as a lot of the other things the usual chorus complain about, and you could have almost written a bingo card on for it before the first trailer was even aired. I'm amused that it's the same cabal of like 5 YouTube Weirdos who are leading that charge, all of whom swear up and done they're constantly Done with Star Trek and will never watch it again, yet they put out reviews every week screaming about the latest episode. And all their video thumbnails look the same too. Hell, that Nerdtronic guy or whatever reviewed the first episode twice, he was that mad about it I guess 
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Feb 15, 2020 02:07
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I am not that bothered about the outside of the La Sirena, but the inside is bugging me. If this indeed is going to be the Hero Ship of this show they are going to have to do a much much better job of giving the inside a sense of place and space and such. The wide open "main section" just looks incredibly lazy. I have been spoiled by the Rocinante in The Expanse and Lucy in Killjoys I think.. both have internal set design with a great sense of space(or lack there of) and purpose.
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Feb 15, 2020 02:14
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I quite like the bridge section of the ship when looking toward the view screen, it melds the runabout/shuttle cockpit aesthetic with a more relaxed and airy bridge setting. That said, I'm not super fond of the large space behind and I do think they need to do some walk & talk scenes to establish the internal geography. And maybe have someone turn the lights up.nine-gear crow posted:If I recall, people lost their poo poo over that one because they thought Dukat was actually the hero of DS9 and they were mad when the writers punched through the 4th wall and went "NO, HE'S THE BAD GUY YOU IDIOTS." and claimed it ruined his character forever. When really it was one of the best outings for Marc Alaimo as an actor because Dukat became the full embodiment of all his seething, lingering hatreds for Bajor and the Federation and Cardassia itself in that episode. They know their market, there's money in the anger of toxic communities. And the Star Trek fanbase is awash with man-children looking for something to be indignant about, it always has been. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 02:15
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mfny posted:I am not that bothered about the outside of the La Sirena, but the inside is bugging me. The thing that bugs me about the interior is that you have the "bridge" section with the chairs and everything... immediately in front of a drop off to the lower section of the ship. I spent half the fight with the Bird of Prey worried they were all gonna go flying backward and fall off the edge when Rios was pulling those crazy rear end moves 
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Feb 15, 2020 02:23
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nine-gear crow posted:I mean neither Jean-Luc Picard nor Steve Rogers put up with bigotry, oppression, and bullshit, so if you wanted to pick a pair of people to stand against that instantly says "I'm a huge rear end in a top hat", they're your pick Rodgers just timetravelled to live a quiet life with peggy and watched black leaders get shot for the next 80 years and doing nothing about it. gently caress captain america.
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Feb 15, 2020 02:30
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I'm like a third of Picard's age and him slamming into that chair sent sympathetic pains through me. That little slam is the kind of poo poo that makes it hurt to walk, sit, stand, or lay down for 3 weeks.HorseLord posted:Rodgers just timetravelled to live a quiet life with peggy and watched black leaders get shot for the next 80 years and doing nothing about it. gently caress captain america. That makes me think of The Legend of Zelda, where one of the principle timelines is predicated on a reality where Link peaces out while Ganon takes over the kingdom. That timeline should definitely feature more people who think of Link's bloodline as losers who abandoned them to Ganon. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 02:30
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mfny posted:I am not that bothered about the outside of the La Sirena, but the inside is bugging me.
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Feb 15, 2020 02:36
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The ship is Mass Effect, even though it looks like something straight out of Star Trek Online and has the design language of the Federation all over it. I meant it as a compliment though
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Feb 15, 2020 02:44
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Honestly something about the La Sirena gives me a Babylon 5 vibe, maybe the hull pattern.
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Feb 15, 2020 03:02
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yeah I remember when that was first shown in the early trailers I was not a big fan. It makes it look like they are standing in the front of a warehouse or something. Not really sure why they decided to make that entire area one set with no back wall. Yeah, its just so .. instantly offputting. It looks like the cargo bay or some other utility section of a much larger ship actually now that I think about it. Also its hard to tell where the other rooms are in relation to the main section ? (we have seen I think 3 different rooms so far on the ship) Al this probably sounds nitpicky to some but yeah coming from The Expanse and Killjoys where the Hero Ship internal design very quickly makes some kind of sense the La Sirena is a bit of a bummer especially with Trek usually being good about this stuff.
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Feb 15, 2020 03:10
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Khanstant posted:That makes me think of The Legend of Zelda, where one of the principle timelines is predicated on a reality where Link peaces out while Ganon takes over the kingdom. That timeline should definitely feature more people who think of Link's bloodline as losers who abandoned them to Ganon. That seems more an unintended side effect of time travel, though from what I've read it seems confusing whether it's where Link vanishes at the time of need Avatar style or whether he just flat out dies, losing to Ganondorf. Also, the ending is definitely a contrast to the 1602 comics, where a backwardly time-displaced Steve Rogers wants to stick around and try to build an America free from prejudice from the start.
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Feb 15, 2020 03:53
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Phylodox posted:I mean...Picard has always been a man of deeply held principles. The kind of guy who literally can't just stand aside and ignore something as clearly wrong as segregation and discrimination. And he clearly didn't want to physically fight, as evidenced by his repeated attempts to defuse the situation with dialogue. He doesn't throw the sign off because of principles, he throws it off and sits down to order a drink to provoke exactly the kind of reaction he got, to get Elnor to have to step in. He didn't get what he wanted at the nunery, so he engineered a situation to force Elnor's hand. I don't think the scene could be clearer. Otherwise, the alternative you're proposing is that Picard, while aware that the crew on the ship have an enemy warship approaching, decides he wants a drink but, "Would you look at that: racism, that won't do! This seems an appropriate time to take a stand against segregation. Oh! What's happening, no I don't want to fight!"
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Feb 15, 2020 04:12
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nine-gear crow posted:If I recall, people lost their poo poo over that one because they thought Dukat was actually the hero of DS9 and they were mad when the writers punched through the 4th wall and went "NO, HE'S THE BAD GUY YOU IDIOTS." and claimed it ruined his character forever. When really it was one of the best outings for Marc Alaimo as an actor because Dukat became the full embodiment of all his seething, lingering hatreds for Bajor and the Federation and Cardassia itself in that episode. You're thinking of "Waltz". It's a good episode... but I'm not really fond of how it goes for the old "Mental illness = pure evil" cliche.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:14
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If I were a federation citizen and wasn't a complete nerd like the rest of them, I'd buy me a cool looking ship too.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:20
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Angry Salami posted:You're thinking of "Waltz". It's a good episode... but I'm not really fond of how it goes for the old "Mental illness = pure evil" cliche. He's not evil because of mental illness, (how did you get that reading?!), but he has had a massive breakdown by this point, which is what it takes to allow him to finally admit to what he's always been, without any pretence or hollow justification.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:20
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waltz is when dukat realizes it's not economic anxiety and he's actually just a nazi.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:22
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Caught up on Picard. My expectations are so low that I cant be disappointed. At least there was Seven of Nine at the end though.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:36
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upgunned shitpost posted:waltz is when dukat realizes it's not economic anxiety and he's actually just a nazi. Exactly. He was humanised sure, but never excused. Waltz was so good because it showed that even though he is a person who has suffered loss, is capable of kindness, can be charming and intelligent, and has fears and aspirations like anyone else; to have done the things he did, he absolutely must also be the monster the episode unequivocally confirms that he is. It's a fitting end for his character and they really shouldn't have brought him back.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:37
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Angry Salami posted:You're thinking of "Waltz". It's a good episode... but I'm not really fond of how it goes for the old "Mental illness = pure evil" cliche. Oh right, In The Pale Moonlight is the "Sisko cons and assassinates the Romulans into the war" episode. My bad. Yeah oof. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 04:37
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Mortanis posted:I mean one of the earliest episodes is with Wesley Crusher sentenced to death for stepping on the flowers and it ended with Picard facing them down on a "it's your laws, and we are guests and should abide by the rules you hold to but gently caress y'all we out". Classic Picard couldn't have walked by that sign without doing something and I loved the moment, especially with the former-Senator's little speech. I am going back and forth between whether Picard did that sign business to spur Elnor into action, or if it was just to get a reaction out the Romulans so he could talk to them. Or he was just legit frustrated? What do people here think?
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Feb 15, 2020 04:47
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I am going back and forth between whether Picard did that sign business to spur Elnor into action, or if it was just to get a reaction out the Romulans so he could talk to them. Or he was just legit frustrated? What do people here think? Lizard Combatant posted:He doesn't throw the sign off because of principles, he throws it off and sits down to order a drink to provoke exactly the kind of reaction he got, to get Elnor to have to step in. He didn't get what he wanted at the nunery, so he engineered a situation to force Elnor's hand. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 04:52
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nine-gear crow posted:Oh right, In The Pale Moonlight is the "Sisko cons and assassinates the Romulans into the war" episode. My bad. Yeah oof. imagine thinking the sisko was something so limited and insipid as a 'federation citizen' garbage post, buddy. do better.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:54
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Lizard Combatant posted:He doesn't throw the sign off because of principles, he throws it off and sits down to order a drink to provoke exactly the kind of reaction he got, to get Elnor to have to step in. He didn't get what he wanted at the nunery, so he engineered a situation to force Elnor's hand. I rewatched the episode and while I came to the same conclusion on first watch, on a second watch I looked at it differently. Picard wanted to leave - and was ready to beam up - before he provoked the fight. He was told that he had to wait for the window to beam up - and that's when he decided to get high and mighty and start the confrontation. Also, Elnor's original reason for rejecting Picard's offer was rather petty, and I think the intended subtext is that Elnor came to that realization (offscreen, natch) and went to find Picard, and if anything Picard's obstinance in the face of injustice (reckless and foolhardy as it was) made his choice even more clear. I think the argument that Picard engineered the situation still carries some weight, but not as much as I had remembered, certainly not entirely.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:54
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That was my read on it too. Picard engineered the confrontation to get Elnor to pledge himself to him rather than let him die. It's just that Picard also seemed to be at peace with the fact that Elnor probably wouldn't show up and he had no way out other than dying. Though he was also specifically stalling until the planetary shield reopened and Raffi could beam him up again.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:55
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upgunned shitpost posted:imagine thinking the sisko was something so limited and insipid as a 'federation citizen' Sorry, I meant to quote the post above you. I'm kind of multi-tasking ATM so I clicked the wrong button and started typing. I suck.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:57
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ashpanash posted:I rewatched the episode and while I came to the same conclusion on first watch, on a second watch I looked at it differently. Picard wanted to leave - and was ready to beam up - before he provoked the fight. He was told that he had to wait for the window to beam up - and that's when he decided to get high and mighty and start the confrontation. It has to be the first option. He's fully aware of the urgency of the time constraints imposed by the approaching battle ship and has been putting off being beamed out while he tries to convince Elnor. Any other motivation would just make him a collosal idiot instead of just willing to start a confrontation to get what he wants.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:58
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Lizard Combatant posted:Any other motivation would just make him a collosal idiot instead of just willing to start a confrontation to get what he wants. I kind of think he was being an idiot. A noble, stuck in his ways, nonagenarian idiot.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:59
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Just caught up on the latest episode. I liked it a lot more than 3 — still rocky, but it had some great moments. Writing this before i catch up on the thread. There’s something idk off about the show. The cold open this episode just felt weird, weird sound, weird directing, weird editing. I don’t know if the problem is the directing or the editing really, but the pacing being sloppy is one of the problems. I think I like Agnes the most of the new crew, she’s kinda funny. On the other hand, the Borg ship scenes and the gross incestuous tension are just getting so freaking old. I don’t care about or like either of these two people. I really liked the ship combat scene. It was an actual Star Trek combat scene!! Folks clutching consoles, slow phaser, no seatbelts. The phasers worked like loving phasers not pew pew pew JJ poo poo. Thank loving god. On the other hand, what the hell did JL expect to happen when he hosed with the Romulan only sign? He clearly got those guys killed to send what sort of message? Why was he openly disrespectful of people he wanted to apologize to?
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Feb 15, 2020 04:59
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