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Craptacular! posted:Most of these PCs were replaced with iPads. X86 is overkill for timewaste gaming and less portable/disposable, which is what Mom wants.  The iPad Pro already runs Unreal Engine games at 120 Hz/FPS and that kind of GPU horsepower is bound to trickle down into the budget products over the years. I think it would be in Microsoft’s best interest to allow the new console to be used as a Windows 10 (gaming) PC, similar to how the launch PS3 supported Linux.
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Feb 13, 2020 07:52
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The PS3 supporting Linux was nothing more than a tax evasion trick. Which is why they pulled support when it became more trouble than it was worth.
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Feb 13, 2020 08:03
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Microsoft already wants you to use your PC to play Xbox games. Look up ultimate game pass if you haven't. MRC that lets you play games on both xbl and windows. As it is I can't remember the last time I actually used my Xbox hardware to play Xbox games on Xbox live with my Xbox friends
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Feb 13, 2020 09:47
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eames posted:I think it would be in Microsoft’s best interest to allow the new console to be used as a Windows 10 (gaming) PC, similar to how the launch PS3 supported Linux. Do not loving do anything that allows crypto miners to run on console hardware, thanks. When some foreign billionaire needs to launder some cash and crazy anti-government zealots see their funny money blow up 60x in value, consoles are the only reason the video game industry can still exist. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 11:34
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i would be incredibly surprised if someone told me in tyool 2020 that there's no miner made for consoles they just suck at mining for their price, op
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Feb 13, 2020 11:46
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Are crypto ASICS not able to keep up with GPUs?
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Feb 13, 2020 16:34
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Shaocaholica posted:Are crypto ASICS not able to keep up with GPUs? Depends entirely on the coin. For Bitcoin no one has used GPUs for years and years, but other coins can be mined instead and then traded for bitcoin immediately. NiceHash and other apps did this and just paid you in bitcoin for a portion of whatever you mined (even though it wasn't bitcoin that you mined). All the coins are connected so GPU mining gets more valuable as bitcoin goes up though.
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Feb 13, 2020 17:27
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eames posted:
While they're not necessarily sold at a 'loss', consoles largely exist so Microsoft/Sony can make revenues based off their software. Once you allow other stores through, you basically kneecap their business model.
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Feb 13, 2020 17:56
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Lockback posted:Depends entirely on the coin. For Bitcoin no one has used GPUs for years and years, but other coins can be mined instead and then traded for bitcoin immediately. NiceHash and other apps did this and just paid you in bitcoin for a portion of whatever you mined (even though it wasn't bitcoin that you mined). Are the major ASICS general enough to be reprogrammed to mine other coins? Obviously at a profitable efficiency.
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Feb 13, 2020 19:20
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Some can be tweaked to do coins from other very similar families, but in general they're specifically designed around rigid pathways. That's what gets them their very high efficiency, but at the cost of not really being able to flex much if anything changes. That's part of why there's always such heartache about forks and changes to mining algorithms: they often render existing ASICS useless.
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Feb 13, 2020 20:17
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also, new coins are often purposefully designed to not be minable on cheap asics, so people *have* to buy expensive gpus to mine profitably, because this distributes the mining much better, since you can buy a gpu in almost any corner shop these days. blockchains are kinda losing steam now tho, it seems. don't see much news about it anymore.
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Feb 13, 2020 20:27
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Edit: Beaten ^^^ Yep, and it's in the best interest of the coin developer NOT to have their coin easily mined by existing specialist hardware like ASICs, because the developer usually wants it to be widespread, not hard focused on someone who is just going to mine and dump. So most of those GPU coins are specifically designed to do better with GPUs than existing ASICs.
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Feb 13, 2020 20:29
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Lockback posted:Edit: Beaten ^^^ Ah gotcha. This makes sense. It would make even more sense if they had to be CPU mined and not even GPU optimized.
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Feb 13, 2020 20:44
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:While they're not necessarily sold at a 'loss', consoles largely exist so Microsoft/Sony can make revenues based off their software. Once you allow other stores through, you basically kneecap their business model. Yes, but afaik Microsoft is planning two variants and one could argue that Windows 10 would still be within their ecosystem. Maybe the cheaper one could double as a PC because the hardware doesn’t need to be a loss leader? The boxy design looks inoffensive enough that it could be a sort of Mac Mini equivalent. None of this is never going to happen but I think it would be in Microsoft’s best interest to expose their young audience to Windows instead of iOS/Android.
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Feb 13, 2020 23:51
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It's not a matter of if it "needs" to be a loss leader, the entire point of consoles is to lock you in to buying things that make more money for the manufacturer. It's a completely different business model from PCs. If I buy a GPU from EVGA, or even an entire computer from Dell or whatever, they aren't expecting any further revenue from me on that product. Selling the Xbone two as a cheap PC would not generate xbox game sales (where MS gets a cut whether you buy physical or digital), XBL sales, DLC sales, etc. A PC you can do anything with, a console every single thing you can possibly do involves giving the manufacturer more money.
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Feb 14, 2020 00:06
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Well if you just buy one or two games and then use it for blu-rays and Netflix....
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Feb 14, 2020 03:32
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:For all the talk about future GPU's, about the only area that really piques my interest on the PC these days is APU's, specifically what they'll be able to do when HBM finally gets affordable enough to actually include 8+gb in one and still keep it relatively cheap (in other words, not hades-canyon pricing). I don't know how popular or widely-used APUs are, but things like the Athlon 200GE/3000G and the Ryzen APUs are, for me, the most exciting parts of AMD's line-up, because getting-away with not needing a dedicated GPU while still being able to run all sorts of games on low-to-medium settings at least feels very cool, even if I know most enthusiasts will go for a dedicated GPU anyway. If the next generation of APUs goes up to 6 or 8 cores, I thinking I'm going to save up for snapping up one of those so I don't even have to think about Radeons or GTXes.
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Feb 14, 2020 04:28
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Consoles are basically APUs but with faster memory. APUs would be super baller for SFF if they could get faster memory somehow on them.
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Feb 14, 2020 04:42
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TressFX is still alive? Or undead? Beats taking the HairWorks hit. Maybe it's more for (semi-)prerendered stuff. https://twitter.com/DirectX12/status/1228106352058191875
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Feb 14, 2020 18:05
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Perhaps something to do with the upcoming consoles?
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Feb 14, 2020 18:21
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Shaocaholica posted:Consoles are basically APUs but with faster memory. APUs would be super baller for SFF if they could get faster memory somehow on them. no reason you couldn't do a custom mini-PC with a 4800U and soldered-down LPDDR4X (there is no DIMM-form factor LPDDR). Something like the Zotac Magnus or Gigabyte Brix series. Although of course consoles are using GDDR6 and not LPDDR, and they have a lot more CUs than a standard Renoir chip. In particular I'd really like to see a GPD Win style handheld with Renoir and some fast RAM. That's a niche that would really be amazing with a 7nm processor with decent graphics performance. (and then SMACH Z, in their ongoing quest to never ship a single production-model unit, immediately throws everything away and redesigns their product yet again) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Feb 14, 2020 |
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Feb 14, 2020 19:30
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There are only 3 internet cafes in my town and their PCs have either GTX 1080s or RTX 2070s. 1440p144 screens all around. Why would someone go to an internet cafe where the PCs are low-spec?
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Feb 14, 2020 19:38
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Lolcano Eruption posted:There are only 3 internet cafes in my town and their PCs have either GTX 1080s or RTX 2070s. 1440p144 screens all around. Why would someone go to an internet cafe where the PCs are low-spec? Because compared to most people's PCs those are  .An internet/gaming cafe isn't going to let kids and jackasses beat on $3-5000 PCs with reckless abandon - there's got to be some kind of compromise.
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Feb 14, 2020 19:42
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Lolcano Eruption posted:There are only 3 internet cafes in my town and their PCs have either GTX 1080s or RTX 2070s. 1440p144 screens all around. Why would someone go to an internet cafe where the PCs are low-spec? Lots of people/places don’t have much money.
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Feb 14, 2020 19:55
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Lolcano Eruption posted:There are only 3 internet cafes in my town and their PCs have either GTX 1080s or RTX 2070s. 1440p144 screens all around. Why would someone go to an internet cafe where the PCs are low-spec? That's not low spec by my standards
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Feb 14, 2020 20:25
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Cygni posted:Lots of people/places don’t have much money. Lolcano - "Why don't they just get more money" 
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Feb 14, 2020 20:42
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Paul MaudDib posted:no reason you couldn't do a custom mini-PC with a 4800U and soldered-down LPDDR4X (there is no DIMM-form factor LPDDR). Something like the Zotac Magnus or Gigabyte Brix series. Although of course consoles are using GDDR6 and not LPDDR, and they have a lot more CUs than a standard Renoir chip. Just make the Xbox with double the GDDR6/HBM3 memory, removable NVME SSD(s) and a better CPU and sell it for $1000-$1500. Keep the form factor/layout. Slightly bigger is fine for better thermals as long as its nice and neat layout.
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Feb 14, 2020 20:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:That's not low spec by my standards He's pretty clearly not saying that those are low spec. He's questioning why someone would go to an internet cafe with comparatively poo poo PCs when places like that are available. vvvv This is absolutely the answer, though Q_res fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 14, 2020 |
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Feb 14, 2020 21:00
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Lolcano Eruption posted:There are only 3 internet cafes in my town and their PCs have either GTX 1080s or RTX 2070s. 1440p144 screens all around. Why would someone go to an internet cafe where the PCs are low-spec? Not every town is your town, they're probably cheaper, and you don't need a 1080 or 2070 to play fortnite, overwatch, or counter-strike. The vast majority of internet cafe players are in places where wealth is lower and it's much more difficult to get a powerful personal pc. Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Feb 14, 2020 |
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Feb 14, 2020 21:06
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Shaocaholica posted:Just make the Xbox with double the GDDR6/HBM3 memory, removable NVME SSD(s) and a better CPU and sell it for $1000-$1500. Keep the form factor/layout. Slightly bigger is fine for better thermals as long as its nice and neat layout. In the future where HBM3 is cost-efficient enough where it can be included on an APU and be used as main system memory and not segregated by the GPU so it's basically an X86 SOC (which I think will eventually happen..?), yeah - that's when the price/performance really starts to shift in its favour, but now and for the next couple of years at least, if you were to do that with GDDR6/HBM3 you would likely be incurring a cost premium over a similar more traditional PC architecture with a dedicated GPU and likely offer less overall performance to boot, with the downside that your GPU is also now tied to your CPU. I mean your hypothetical PC/Xbox hybrid would have a 'better' CPU that might be largely unnoticeable for most gamers, let alone general PC users (it's not like a 8core/16th thread CPU at ~3.2ghz would limit most games now), and is priced likely 2-3X higher than the console - I don't see the market for such a device. I definitely want APU's to become far more competent at least in part due to ease of purchasing (less components for an OEM to imbalance and hugely mark up), smaller systems etc but they'll only really take off for market segments above absolute entry-level if they can beat the same performance level of a separate CPU/GPU combo at a better, or even just similar price point. That 'aint happening until GDDR6/HBM3 become significantly more affordable.
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Feb 14, 2020 22:13
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I'm most just about the form factor. One board. Massive cooler. Minimal to no internal cabling. Highly efficient use of space.
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Feb 14, 2020 22:20
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Glass of Milk posted:I don't think so. Blue screen seems to indicate it hits some section of video memory and then crashes. unless you recently replaced it, its probably your PSU. this exact same blue screen happened to me, and it was the PSU. and by the way, the PSU is guaranteed to fail after being on for a certain amount of time. it's totally normal to have to replace it after several years. GPUs can fail too, but it's not as common. just because your GPU is mentioned in the blue screen doesn't mean its not the PSU. your GPU is the most power-hungry component in your PC, and it's going to be the first to suffer when your PSU starts to deliver weird electricity under load. and when you go to replace the PSU, don't just get the cheapest poo poo you can find. the more expensive ones can be more efficient, and that means less heat and a lower power bill. avoid anything without the 80 PLUS certification. get something rated 80 PLUS Titanium if you can afford it
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Feb 15, 2020 01:26
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Good and up is fine for power supplies. Hell, depending on the brand, bronze will do. Not everyone is made of money and things have to be cut somewhere. My suggestion before any power supply is to look for a review on JohnnyGURU since that seems to be the only site online that knows how to correctly review them, has the equipment to do it, and does so regularly. Balance that out by the warranty. Usually a more expensive PSU has a longer warranty.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:36
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Craptacular! posted:Good and up is fine for power supplies. Hell, depending on the brand, bronze will do. Not everyone is made of money and things have to be cut somewhere. looks like he quit posting reviews last year, anyone else in the game? but im sure all the stuff he said was good in 2019 will serve you well in 2020
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Feb 15, 2020 02:10
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PC Perspective is pretty good and more comprehensive for recent models. E: Right now the good value modular gold models are the Seasonic Focus Plus, Corsair RMX (2018) or RM (2019), or EVGA G1+/G2/G3. The G5 is okay, but not really in the same tier. The Corsair TXM is a great semi-modular gold model if you can find it cheaper than the modular models. Stickman fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 02:14
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Shaocaholica posted:Well if you just buy one or two games and then use it for blu-rays and Netflix.... There are way cheaper and better ways for watching Netflix, and Blurays? Seriously? Can't imagine that's a huge part of the market these days. But even then, they still make a small profit on the consoles themselves.
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Feb 15, 2020 02:30
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so is now a good time for a GPU upgrade, or is the next-gen right around the corner?
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Feb 15, 2020 03:17
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Helianthus Annuus posted:so is now a good time for a GPU upgrade, or is the next-gen right around the corner? It's coming, but it's not right around the corner. As in, there are new cards every year, but nothings been announced yet.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:08
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PSU talk, if someone made one "family" of PSUs of various output ratings but used basically the same hardware scaled up or down in all of them: The 500w unit would be 80+ The 600w unit would be 80+ Bronze The 700w unit would be 80+ Silver The 850w unit would be 80+ Gold The 1000w unit would be 80+ Platinum And the 1200w unit would be 80+ Titanium. They would all have the same fixed operating losses of ~30w, they would all consume roughly the same total amount of power to supply a 300W load.* If you ever wondered why 80+ Titanium PSUs trend towards 1200+ watts, its because the efficiency of the PSU is a percentage at another percentage, not a percentage at a fixed value of watts. It is the one significant weakness of the 80+ certification system: It is easier to make a Titanium PSU at 1200+ watts because the fixed costs of powering a PSU are a smaller percentage of 1200W than they are of 500W. What does it mean? Size your PSU for the intended load with a moderate buffer of additional capacity and pay little attention to the 80+ rating (as long as it has one it should be good enough). An appropriately sized Bronze PSU may be modestly more efficient at the 250W of output required for a modest single GPU gaming system than a massive Titanium PSU would be, and then it gets significantly worse if you start factoring in more time down in the 30-60W range of a typical gaming desktops idle loop. (* This is just a generalization, there are other PSU losses that are variable with the load.) Indiana_Krom fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 04:11
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Helianthus Annuus posted:looks like he quit posting reviews last year, anyone else in the game? It's not so much that he quit, the thing is that Corsair hired him, so he stopped doing reviews because of conflict of interest issues. Helianthus Annuus posted:so is now a good time for a GPU upgrade, or is the next-gen right around the corner? There are a lot of rumors of new stuff from Nvidia coming sometime between late spring and late fall this year, but we don't know much of anything about this new stuff. Really, things have been stagnant for a while now, so I have to wonder how much of these rumors are people just getting impatient for something to finally happen. Look at how excited people are about IGPUs and such, part of the reason for that is because there is nothing happening with discrete GPUs, the only thing to discuss is AMD doing a dumb or arguing about the latest driver bug for one side or the other.
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