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Benne posted:The stupid opinions thread has been talking about botches which had me thinking: What are your favorite examples of "good botches" that ended up elevating a match or storyline moment?
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Feb 15, 2020 09:08
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Any excuse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj1ScIBpUq0 Also it's important to note that Meanie was being 'punished' for breaking a dumbass rule that he didn't know existed with a plane ticket that was purchased for him by the company. He had been busted open hardway by accident a few nights before and JBL specifically targeted the staples Meanie still had in the back of his head. JBL got socked multiple times in retaliation by a team of Sandman and Tracy Smothers of all people. Tracy didn't even know what had happened he just wanted to beat JBL for being a dickhead. Prokhor Zakharov fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 09:21
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jesus WEP posted:Nia Jax being unable to throw a worked elbow was responsible for making Becky the most over act in WWE Then, of course, they hosed it up.
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Feb 15, 2020 09:38
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Any excuse I hate all the flashes at the moment of impact. I wanna be able to slow everything down and watch his spine compress like the Zapruder film.
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Feb 15, 2020 10:01
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forkboy84 posted:Can I just urge you that, if you're going to go throw ECW TV try to find rips of the originals rather than the dubbed mess that is the WWE Network versions and the music ECW used was a big part of their presentation and I think it hurts a rewatch to not have Misirlou playing over the Pulp Fiction promos (does the Network even have the Pulp Fiction promos? I forget), and there's no real point to The Sandman without Enter Sandman. Obviously it's MorrisBae posted:Watch Hardcore TV from the beginning of 1995 through to Barely Legal in 1997 Raven is definitely a bit attraction for me. I've always liked him but I saw him in WCW. Apparently his ECW stuff is the real deal and I wanna check it out from start to finish. I was thinking of starting with Hardcore TV 1994, though and going to the end. I understand it becomes worse later on but I'm curious to see the whole deal. It'll take a while to get through it all of course and I gotta try and look into how to get the supercards or if they are even worth tracking down.
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Feb 15, 2020 10:06
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so I can't just link you to stuff but I do think that the presentation is such a big part of ECW's feel & success that you need to try experience it fully if at all possible. Blows that music licensing fucks with the Network versions so much.
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TheKingslayer posted:I hate all the flashes at the moment of impact. I wanna be able to slow everything down and watch his spine compress like the Zapruder film. click the settings button and play it at 0.25x speed (maybe I have a plugin that adds that option I dunno) - the point of impact sound at 0.25 is incredible gently caress JBL, also gently caress the taker
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Feb 15, 2020 10:52
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Benne posted:The stupid opinions thread has been talking about botches which had me thinking: What are your favorite examples of "good botches" that ended up elevating a match or storyline moment? Toshiaki Kawada unintentionally creating a death finisher because his arm was broken and he couldn't get Misawa up for a powerbomb? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzhnSjCAmhE
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Feb 15, 2020 11:24
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It’s just such a real mystery how misawa ended up internally decapitated 
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Feb 15, 2020 12:15
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The trust between all the crazy poo poo from the legends like that above and like every single insane bump must have been insane; and it's always seemed like "you let me do this crazy neckfucker move; and then you can do some crazy neckfucker move on me and they just shook hands unlike the Steiners who just brainbustered jobbers getting $250
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Feb 15, 2020 13:07
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The Steiner screwdriver is still one of the more terrifying moves I've ever seen.
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Feb 15, 2020 13:14
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Randaconda posted:The Steiner screwdriver is still one of the more terrifying moves I've ever seen. edit: actually I think it was Scott's finisher in Revenge before that but I either never saw it in that game or just forgot DMorbid fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 13:45
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Hirez posted:The trust between all the crazy poo poo from the legends like that above and like every single insane bump must have been insane; and it's always seemed like "you let me do this crazy neckfucker move; and then you can do some crazy neckfucker move on me and they just shook hands If you're talking Raw in the early 90s, that's $25
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Feb 15, 2020 14:18
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Randaconda posted:The Steiner screwdriver is still one of the more terrifying moves I've ever seen. Go to 2:15 https://streamable.com/ol0zp
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Feb 15, 2020 14:45
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MassRafTer posted:It really wasn't that big of a deal. There were times where it was the focus of the company and felt super important, but at other times whatever Sabu was doing would be way more important. (The Cactus Jack and Benoit feuds in 94, the FTW title later on, especially when he feuded with Taz are good examples of this.) By the time Taz won it they had no idea what to do and the title was an after thought with Taz squashing Candido to defend against Buh Buh Ray Dudley later on in the show, or Tajiri in a midcard match. They tried to make it more of the focus when Awesome won it, probably to build to RVD's eventual title win but Awesome leaving killed it dead. It also really hurt that while Awesome was champ Rob broke his leg What probably should have happened was Lynn finally beating RVD for the TV belt, Rob moving on to challenge Awesome, then they could have done Van Dam vs Lynn for the world strap El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 15:29
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Benne posted:The stupid opinions thread has been talking about botches which had me thinking: What are your favorite examples of "good botches" that ended up elevating a match or storyline moment? Great Sasuke botching a springboard against Liger during Super J Cup '94. Liger points and laughs at him only for Sasuke to get up and catch him with a flash rana.
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Feb 15, 2020 15:30
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TriffTshngo posted:I don't watch Chikara so I don't know if this was legit or if it was the plan from the start but in King of Trios 2015 AJ botched a Phenomenal Forearm on the first night and over the rest of the weekend he would either hesitate and decide not to do it or attempt and botch it again, finally hitting it on the last(?) night. Whether or not that first one was intentional, they made a fun little story out of it. AEW just did something similar with Christopher Daniels botching a moonsault on Pentagon Jr. and it ended up giving his character a lot of depth.
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Feb 15, 2020 16:31
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Doc M posted:I first saw that in No Mercy's create-a-wrestler mode and thought it was made up for the game. No Mercy gave 110% animating that move. You can really see the other dude hit the mat head first and his spine telescope a little bit.
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Feb 15, 2020 18:41
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used to really love doing perceived severe head trauma to the video game humans in the aki games. before crushing the skull and brain was considered bad. those were the only wrestling games where occasionally you could kind of see a guy really seem like he passed out while standing due to a horrible concussion and then fell down. some times. i think it was with chairs maybe or maybe i made up that they were knocked out before hitting the ground, due to loving horrid violence
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Feb 15, 2020 19:28
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video game wrestling is double fake
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Feb 15, 2020 19:28
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Cavauro posted:used to really love doing perceived severe head trauma to the video game humans in the aki games. before crushing the skull and brain was considered bad. those were the only wrestling games where occasionally you could kind of see a guy really seem like he passed out while standing due to a horrible concussion and then fell down. some times. i think it was with chairs maybe or maybe i made up that they were knocked out before hitting the ground, due to loving horrid violence So you're looking forward to the new Doom I take it?
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Feb 15, 2020 19:32
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no i'm not like that any more.
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Feb 15, 2020 19:32
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Oh, shame, it looks pretty dope
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Feb 15, 2020 19:36
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So everybody warns me about ECW on the Network but what about the classic tape libraries from places like WCCW? Were those ruined?
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Feb 15, 2020 20:05
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I don't know about World Class specifically but they went through and replaced music on pretty much everything you can think of on the Network, including old WWF/E shows. It's noticable, but given how much Heyman/ECW built their promos/entrances/shows around using popular music I imagine it hits ECW shows way harder than just about any other show.
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Feb 15, 2020 20:41
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One of my favorite dubbed music moments on the Network was on a 1998 Nitro. The nWo theme starts playing and Tony Schiavone says "That's not Hollywood Hogan's theme, that's the nWo theme so this must be someone else coming out!" Randy Savage shows up and cuts a promo. About 15 minutes later the nWo theme starts playing again, this time much louder and clearer as Tony goes "That's not the nWo theme, that's Hogan's personal theme, Voodoo Child!" while the poorly overdubbed 4 LIFE is trying to drown him out. DMorbid fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 21:00
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what's the bigger failure, the Performance Center or the Power Plant?
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Feb 15, 2020 21:43
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the power plant created multiple big stars (goldberg, the giant, etc.) and didn't serve solely to train people to be more injury prone
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Feb 15, 2020 21:46
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i just found out paul wight was minimally trained and didn't really do any of it at the power plant. I was certain he came from there. sorry for lying.
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Feb 15, 2020 21:49
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The power plant churned out more bad wrestlers than the performance center could ever dream of.
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Feb 15, 2020 22:07
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Cavauro posted:i just found out paul wight was minimally trained and didn't really do any of it at the power plant. I was certain he came from there. sorry for lying. I forgive you
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Feb 15, 2020 22:07
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reminder that paul "the "big show" giant" wight won the WCW championship in his second professional wrestling match ever by disqualification WCW, folks
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Feb 15, 2020 22:25
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Michael Oku is also known as OJMO. What’s behind the OJMO name?
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Feb 15, 2020 23:21
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:The power plant churned out more bad wrestlers than the performance center could ever dream of. I mean this is true; is so far as the Power Plant churned out a lot of wrestlers who were mostly bad while the Performance Centre churns out no one TriffTshngo posted:reminder that paul "the "big show" giant" wight won the WCW championship in his second professional wrestling match ever I will always claim that the rule in US wrestling that titles can't change hands via DQs or count-outs is incredibly dumb. I get the historical reason for the DQ part (was to protect against screwjobs in times where there was a legit fear that a rogue promoter might change the World Title in that way) but the count-out bit makes no sense and seems to just be something that the WWWF started doing and everyone eventually copied post-national expansion. Today it makes no sense: why should someone that cheats in a match and gets disqualified be allowed to retain their title: it makes no sense and why should someone who legitimately loses the match retain a title just because they lost in a certain way? Add in the fact that it gives lazy bookers an excuse to book matches with no intent to give a meaningful finish and that they've been used as crutches forever things would be better if you got rid of that idea.
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Feb 15, 2020 23:45
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the problem is that there are so many ways to get DQ'ed and the majority of them are enforced inconsistently if at all when was the last time you saw someone getting DQed for a closed fist? or a tag partner not getting out of the ring at 5? or a manager tripping up an opponent?
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Feb 15, 2020 23:56
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IceAgeComing posted:I will always claim that the rule in US wrestling that titles can't change hands via DQs or count-outs is incredibly dumb. I get the historical reason for the DQ part (was to protect against screwjobs in times where there was a legit fear that a rogue promoter might change the World Title in that way) but the count-out bit makes no sense and seems to just be something that the WWWF started doing and everyone eventually copied post-national expansion. Today it makes no sense: why should someone that cheats in a match and gets disqualified be allowed to retain their title: it makes no sense and why should someone who legitimately loses the match retain a title just because they lost in a certain way? Add in the fact that it gives lazy bookers an excuse to book matches with no intent to give a meaningful finish and that they've been used as crutches forever things would be better if you got rid of that idea. In a modern context I think it makes sense for the DQ rule to still exist so you can use it to build storylines further and extend babyface title chases a bit longer, with it leading to some kind of big final match with a stipulation with no DQs, or title change via DQ. WWE being terrible and overusing it + doing it badly for 20 years doesn't necessarily make it a bad rule to have. The particular situation with the Giant I was referencing was just extra stupid because you only found this out the next night on Nitro because Jimmy Hart secretly turned on Hogan beforehand, getting the stip added to the match without him knowing, and then interfering when he was still, in the ref's eyes, on Hogan's side, which meant Hogan got DQ'd. It's the kind of poo poo even WWE don't do because it's so stupid. Not to defend the bad company but at least when they do a "Title changes hands on DQ" stip it's like, part of the story, like when Christian won it from Randy in 2011, lame as that finish was. WCW just did it because The count-out thing though yeah that can go. It's nice watching New Japan where the threat of a count-out title change is real, even if they literally never use it and everyone knows they won't.
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Feb 16, 2020 00:11
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jesus WEP posted:video game wrestling is double fake Actually it's less fake because the winner is not pre-determined. Makes u think
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Feb 16, 2020 01:37
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DQs should be at the referees discretion. It always added something during a main event that was getting a little too violent when JR would explain that the ref was allowing some leeway so that we would get a clear winner. Was it Jack Tunney or Gorilla that would always come out and say they couldn't reverse a crooked referee decision (because of respect for the office of referee lol) but would put together a rematch for the wronged face.
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Feb 16, 2020 01:45
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WWE did that once recently. They had that Ambrose/Miz title match with the stip that Ambrose could lose the title on DQ. So Maryse slapped Miz, but the ref refused to call it.
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Feb 16, 2020 01:51
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Benne posted:The stupid opinions thread has been talking about botches which had me thinking: What are your favorite examples of "good botches" that ended up elevating a match or storyline moment? In Chikara, they had a guy named Equinox who was a Wrestle Factory student promoted as a generic luchador from Mexico. His high-flying stuff was garbage and his finisher, a running Shooting Star Press, looked absolutely terrible every time. Like Starship Pain, but with more flailing. Then after a while they unmasked him and turned it into a storyline. He was Vin Gerard, a Wrestle Factory washout who faked an identity to get booked. This reveal turned him into a locker room pariah, allowed him to wrestle a more grounded style and got him over as the company's new top heel.
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Feb 16, 2020 02:51
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What are some of the worst title reigns? Like I've just watched HHH beat Rock for the IC title in 98 and while the match was great, the title reign is non existent - defended it once to bury Owen Hart then vacate it. Big Shows 99 and 02 WWE title reigns are in there. Dean Ambrose had a nothing run as US title during his Shield days. I guess this could be a Kofi/Mix/Ziggler question.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:06
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