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I really enjoyed City of Stairs but bounced off the second one pretty hard, the changing of the main PoV really killed my interest which I know is something I really should have just given it more of a chance over but eh.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 18:51 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:48 |
Crimpolioni posted:High praise indeed Okay so I'm mostly here attacking FYAD, not defending Bennet, so I'm forced to agree with this.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 18:52 |
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Grave Peril (Dresden Files 3) by Jim Butcher - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001650UDA/ Hopefully this one is better than the second book.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 19:18 |
pradmer posted:Grave Peril (Dresden Files 3) by Jim Butcher - $1.99 It's a lot better. Common wisdom holds that it's best to start here and skip the first two books.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 19:19 |
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Carrier posted:the changing of the main PoV really killed my interest Worth it for the third book's POV.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 19:25 |
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Ornamented Death posted:It's a lot better. Common wisdom holds that it's best to start here and skip the first two books. Just be sure to stop at Changes.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 19:47 |
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Gravy Jones posted:what a loving stupid victim blaming sentiment, stop celebrating bullying and humiilating people... it's nothing to do with the quality of writing and everything to do with being lovely people I found the original thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3249773 and you're right! instead of hillarious burn after hilarious burn on the poor prose quality of "Mr Shivers" it's just pages of people empty quoting the word "human being"
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 20:57 |
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Ornamented Death posted:It's a lot better. Common wisdom holds that it's best to start here and skip the first two books. I found it to be loving terrible. Also I hear common wisdom say it's best to skip the first THREE books and start at Summer Knight. Summer Knight is better, but I still didn't like it.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 21:05 |
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uncommon wisdom is when you skip the dresden files and go straight to the dresden files crossover fanfic.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 21:08 |
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90s Cringe Rock posted:uncommon wisdom is when you skip the dresden files and go straight to the dresden files crossover fanfic. Would those be BETTER or WORSE than Dresden Files?
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 21:10 |
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Kchama posted:Would those be BETTER or WORSE than Dresden Files?
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 21:12 |
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Kchama posted:Would those be BETTER or WORSE than Dresden Files? Yes.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 21:13 |
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fez_machine posted:I found the original thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3249773 lol classic fyad lol
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 21:13 |
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Kchama posted:Would those be BETTER or WORSE than Dresden Files? Guaranteed less sexism, so better
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 21:14 |
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occamsnailfile posted:gently caress FYAD and good riddance. That sounds kinda fun. I don't suppose they are a plain and simple tailor...?
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 22:04 |
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sebmojo posted:lol classic fyad lol there's actually some p funny stuff in there, but the book looks fine they're mainly just writing parodies and laughing at them
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 22:25 |
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Junkenstein posted:Worth it for the third book's POV. The third book is solid gold. I'd say he improved a lot over the course of writing the trilogy. The POV changes probably helped with that, since they break up the project into discrete pieces that have to be treated separately. A lot of trilogies are just one continuous thing cut into thirds at convenient points, these three books are each their own thing.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 22:51 |
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Ornamented Death posted:It's a lot better. Common wisdom holds that it's best to start here and skip the first two books. I think the common wisdom is to skip Butcher entirely and read a good writer.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:06 |
StrixNebulosa posted:Guaranteed less sexism, so better The sexism in Dresden drops off dramatically after the first two books (which, not coincidentally, is when the books started being written after the first one was published), while fanfic authors have a tendency to insert massive amounts. Even the first two probably don't have as much sexism as the fanfics, and something like 80%+ of the sexism in the Dreseden Files is concentrated in books 1 and 2 as long as you don't decide it is there and start manufacturing it yourself.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:14 |
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pseudanonymous posted:I think the common wisdom is to skip Butcher entirely and read a good writer. Ben Aaronovitch or Benedict Jacka for better authors in the same general genre. Maybe Elliott James's Pax Arcana series. Steer clear of Sandman Slim or Iron Druid books.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:20 |
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Gnoman posted:The sexism in Dresden drops off dramatically after the first two books (which, not coincidentally, is when the books started being written after the first one was published), while fanfic authors have a tendency to insert massive amounts. Even the first two probably don't have as much sexism as the fanfics, and something like 80%+ of the sexism in the Dreseden Files is concentrated in books 1 and 2 as long as you don't decide it is there and start manufacturing it yourself. On the other hand, justifying the main character allowing vampires that literally feed on rape to live is a bad look no matter who the character is.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:22 |
biracial bear for uncut posted:On the other hand, justifying the main character allowing vampires that literally feed on rape to live is a bad look no matter who the character is. This is a legitimate criticism. Technically, they can live off of other emotions and/or consensual encounters, but the definition of "consensual" gets really, really fuzzy when your mere presence supernaturally induces desire. Like the love potion in Book 1, Butcher pretty clearly dropped in an existing supernatural concept (incubi and succubi in this case) without fully going through the ramifications.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:25 |
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I really like good "urban fantasy" by which I mean books like American Gods or Kraken: An Anatomy. I really wanted to like The Dresden Files. I like the Laundry files in spite of its many flaws and annoying nerd jokes because I love the concept so much. I read the first three Dresden files books and hated them so much I was driven to write an essay about how bad they were and why. I sent that essay to a friend who had recommended and liked them. She read the essay and was like "well you're not wrong, but if you read more, like after book 7 they start getting good".
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:42 |
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pseudanonymous posted:I really like good "urban fantasy" by which I mean books like American Gods or Kraken: An Anatomy. I really wanted to like The Dresden Files. I like the Laundry files in spite of its many flaws and annoying nerd jokes because I love the concept so much. Urban Fantasy is hard to find good writers for. Ben Aaronovitch is probably the most fun to read if you can mentally imagine the British accents (the audiobook narrator is loving awesome at this).
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:52 |
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Urban Fantasy is hard to find good writers for. I am desperate for you to read some of the women in the genre, they're so good. I've posted about them in the UF thread, there's a lot more to the genre than men in trenchcoats doing noir stuff.
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# ? Feb 17, 2020 23:58 |
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StrixNebulosa posted:I am desperate for you to read some of the women in the genre, they're so good. I've posted about them in the UF thread, there's a lot more to the genre than men in trenchcoats doing noir stuff. Were any of them not romance-centric?
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 00:04 |
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Were any of them not romance-centric? Anita Blake 1-3, Chronicles of Elantra, Jill Kismet 1, Hollows 1, Mercy Thompson (romance starts later in the series), Jane Yellowrock, Sonja Blue. Some of the above have romantic elements in them but they're not focused on the romance. And yes, I know Anita Blake gets worse as it goes along but 1-3 were really solid noir horror pieces.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 00:12 |
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sebmojo posted:there's actually some p funny stuff in there, but the book looks fine they're mainly just writing parodies and laughing at them This is comically awful, no wonder people made fun of it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 00:25 |
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Gnoman posted:The sexism in Dresden drops off dramatically after the first two books (which, not coincidentally, is when the books started being written after the first one was published), while fanfic authors have a tendency to insert massive amounts. Even the first two probably don't have as much sexism as the fanfics, and something like 80%+ of the sexism in the Dreseden Files is concentrated in books 1 and 2 as long as you don't decide it is there and start manufacturing it yourself. No it really doesn't. And the sexism in the first two books are crazy high to begin with. Like having a character in the second book whose entire purpose is for Dresden to call her a 'bitch' over and over because haha get it she's a werewolf? Dresden is the worst.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 00:56 |
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fez_machine posted:really defending the idea that easily mocked fake as hell Old-timey hobo dialect horror is unreflective of a person's writing This has involved an awful lot of talking about someone’s debut novel from literally a decade ago. People actually often get better at things when they do them for ten years. The City of series is good. Foundryside was solid as well. Those are 10000% more representative of his current writing than his first novel since, you know, they literally are his current writing.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 00:59 |
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StrixNebulosa posted:Anita Blake 1-3, Chronicles of Elantra, Jill Kismet 1, Hollows 1, Mercy Thompson (romance starts later in the series), Jane Yellowrock, Sonja Blue. hollows not so much
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 01:08 |
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Kchama posted:No it really doesn't. And the sexism in the first two books are crazy high to begin with. Like having a character in the second book whose entire purpose is for Dresden to call her a 'bitch' over and over because haha get it she's a werewolf? One of the main supporting characters in Skin Game (the last book I read of the series) expressed shock over Dresden not reacting in a sexist manner when one of the woman characters got the poo poo kicked out of her by the big bad. It didn't get better except in reference to how loving bad it was in book one.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 01:16 |
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A human heart posted:This is comically awful, no wonder people made fun of it. Go on?
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 01:19 |
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Something to remember about the Dresden files is they were written a while back (he's like 4 years between the last one and the new one, and it's something like book 14? of the series), so the earlier books are going to have annoying poo poo in them. The world has changed a lot in the last 20 years, and the books reflect the time in which they were written. They get better as they go along but the first couple are rough. That being said, the entire series is basically Dresden dbzing his way out of problems after getting his rear end kicked (although the ending to summer knight was a great example of out of the box thinking). For good (and oddly plentiful) UF you are probably going to enjoy Craig Schaefer. I don't think he's human so much as a sentient ai who likes to write. His Faust series is great, and even with a lust demon as a main character, she's less of a lust filled reason to gently caress than an admittedly terrifying character. Way less sex than you'd imagine too. Joel Spigg also wrote a couple of UF style books, in the same sort of style as A Lee Martinez and they are pretty great. Glenn Buillion has a great series with Damned & Cursed. Joe Nassise had a great series that kicked off with Eyes to See. Ken Lange has a decent series going as well. Rick Gualtieri has the Tome of Bill series and 2 others at the moment, and they are pretty good. Richard Kadrey has the Sandman Slim series and it's very gritty noir feeling UF, but he also has the Coop series which is more of a comedic UF (and hilarious). There's a lot of options out there. Dresden sort of kickstarted the big UF genre rush, since post DF a shitton of books came out vs pre DF when there wasn't that much UF to be read. I think it was the confluence of e-readers, self publishing, and Amazon all coming to a head around that time that really kicked it into high gear. Dude had amazing timing. Anyway, I forgot where I was going with this so just order Carrier Wave by Robert Brockway cause he's awesome and got hosed when he got fired from cracked.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 01:48 |
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has anyone read the witcher books....i just finished them and i thjnk the last one is the best fantasy book ive ever read.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 01:49 |
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and listen: ive read a lot of fantasy books. and lady of the lake absolutely destroys them all, owing largely in part to the painstaking character and setting development of the previous novels. im utterly in awe of this book
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 01:51 |
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this poo poo is like the perfect apotheosis of all of the most interesting trends in fantasy over the last 20 years and it was published in 1999
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 02:41 |
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awesmoe posted:hollows not so much That's why I said Hollows 1 - I'm starting to read 2 and enjoying this idiot witch stealing a fish. I do enjoy how a lot of these series work well as standalone books with sequels. Like - oh I forgot another one! Little to no romance Urban Fantasy: Kitty Norville and the Midnight Hour. Werewolf starts a talk show, gets herself out of an abusive pack, solves a murder, gets hunted by a bounty hunter, pisses off some vampires, it's great. The sequel, Kitty Norville Goes to Washington, is weaker due to the author not understanding how to pace things (it worked in 1 but not in 2) and how.... weirdly idyllic the politics are. Like, the most white-bread "this is how senators work" imaginable. I'll eventually read the third. But ahem. The first Kitty book is genuinely great and I loved it.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 03:17 |
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Also, since I'm in a chatty mood and really love urban fantasy as a genre, I want to be clear: I do differentiate between UF and PNR (paranormal romance). A lot of lady-written UF does dabble in romance, with romantic leads or love triangles (ugh) but never to the point of overwhelming the book and detracting from the plot. Or at least it does this later in series where the author is more invested in the characters - see Anita Blake, see Kate Daniels - at which point either you're invested and keep reading, or you bail. (I'm only on Anita 5 so I don't know how bad it'll get yet, and I ditched Kate Daniels because I hate how they write relationships. Also the undeserved redemption of a certain character who decided it would be better to let children die than quit working for the cops) Meanwhile PNR is a character study with a thin coating of plot. Incorruptible by Lilith Saintcrow is a great example of one with no sex, but a core that was entirely about Mike and Jenna learning to love and trust each other. Oh, and killer demons roadtrip adventure. Or you get the more stereotypical PNRs - I'm fond of Nalini Singh's Slave to Sensation, which has hints of interesting worldbuilding and a plot (psychics rule the world but they deleted their emotions! but now there's a serial killer on the loose! and werewolves hate the psychics!) but so much of the book is spent on the lead couple falling in love and banging, banging, and solving the murder. Then banging. But in general I enjoy how the lady-written UF has this acknowledgement that monster hunting is hard work, and that their leads would enjoy a partner...maybe. Anita Blake starts out ready to shoot men on sight, which is great. She thaws eventually. ... Man. I've got books by Benedict Jacka on hand, but I haven't read them yet. I'm realizing the only dude-written UFs that I've read have been Dresden (sexist garbage), bits of Rivers of London (should retry it), Laundry Files (loved book 1, not loving book 2), and Paul Cornell (grimdark grimdark grimdark I lost interest very fast). It's so weird reading a genre so thoroughly dominated by women, like I've stepped into a mirror world. Normally I'm having to wade through the piles and piles of men to find the ladies, but nope, they're all here writing killer stuff.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 03:30 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:48 |
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Seconding Craig Schaefer urban fantasy rec. He keeps getting both more ambitious and more character-driven with his stories as he gains experience, and the narratives between his series interweave really well without requiring you to read every book. (Which I have, because they're good.) Definitely Hollywood movies in book form, but quirky and introspective ones with great throughlines.
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# ? Feb 18, 2020 04:42 |