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Not sure who you're telling that to, but it's not even really relevant here: he didn't even say SF specifically but was very clearly referring to places like SF with stupidly high cost of living, and those places are all exactly that.
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Feb 18, 2020 04:32
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Y'all are acting like everything is more expensive in the bay area. It isn't. It's really just rent, besides that everything's the same as the rest of California, which itself isn't much off the rest of the populated US. Sure rent is high, but when somebody wants to give you a six figure pay increase in exchange for a 15k/year rent increase it isn't the worst deal in the world.
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Feb 18, 2020 05:00
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Achmed Jones posted:Y'all are acting like everything is more expensive in the bay area. It isn't. It's really just rent, besides that everything's the same as the rest of California, which itself isn't much off the rest of the populated US. Sure rent is high, but when somebody wants to give you a six figure pay increase in exchange for a 15k/year rent increase it isn't the worst deal in the world. I used to think that was more or less true, but especially depending on personal situation, it's for sure not always the case. I say this having lived and worked all over the SF area for nearly a decade and a half, and just moved away to work remote. I should be clear that I do not at all regret the time I spent here, it launched my career and put me in a place where I was able to move somewhere I'd rather be and keep my salary. But the cost difference is very real, and is not necessarily worth for everyone. For one, $15k a year rent increase is probably conservative, depending on where you're moving from and how much you can tolerate a poo poo commute. For two, in general the higher rent means that anything with local costs may be substantially more expensive: the people you're paying have to pay higher rent too. For some things, like the poo poo you're buying from Amazon, this isn't a factor. For most other things, like food, this is small beans compared to rent, sure. But I've got two kids, and daycare for them half a day three days a week was 2/3rds of my mortgage payment. Where I live now, they've got more care for less than half as much money. Utilities are cheaper: electricity is a hair over 1/3rd the price as in the bay. Hell, I went to the dump this weekend and paid a third of what I would have in the bay. Cost of living calculators are bullshit, and for someone trying to launch a career, it's probably net worth it to move to SF or thereabouts. But it's all personal and there are a lot of different circumstances that make a big difference. e: I should add that I'm still in California, in an area that, while it is cheaper than SF, is still very expensive compared to probably 90-95% of the country, just on a different level. Steve French fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Feb 18, 2020 |
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Feb 18, 2020 05:59
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A lot of expenses outside of rent aren't that bad, but the bay area is stupidly laid out and that translates into extra long commutes for everyone. It's a major quality of life issue and a good reason to stay away. Protip: the tip of a mountainous peninsula is an incredibly stupid place to put a major city.
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Feb 18, 2020 06:02
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it's fine, you just need to expropriate the land like the san franciscan henry george suggested. maybe build a 50 story soulless concrete apartment or two
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Feb 18, 2020 06:12
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They tried that.
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Feb 18, 2020 06:15
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Faang makes sense if you are trying to get hired in (from the outside) north of $250 total compensation. I don't see a lot of startups with the funds and/or cajones to offer north of $250/yr total compensation. If you want a 3 bedroom house with a view in the bay area you're not gonna buy one working at a startup unless they go unicorn. Also yeah, I checked 50 items at trader joes, their prices are the same between Dallas and San Francisco. Actually their three buck chuck was $0.50 cheaper in the bay area. Probably due to shipping wine to Dallas from California. Gas is slightly more expensive but I've maybe paid for 12 tanks of gas in the last five years. Uber is more expensive. Amazon, Newegg, walmart.com, homedepot.com are the same price. 80%+ of the things I buy come from Amazon. Between rent, food and Amazon that's 95% of my month to month expenses. Bars are more expensive by about 30% but that's not an every day expense. Also I'm maxing out my social security. I get extra money in my paycheck starting in around October. I've been here five years and my daily expenses are maybe 10% higher but outside of rent it's mostly the same. You can argue this till you're blue in the face but I have the receipts to back it up. If you manage to buy a house in the bay area you can convert your rent into savings. That's a big motivator to move here.
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Feb 18, 2020 06:20
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Hadlock posted:If you manage to buy a house in the bay area you can convert your rent into savings. That's a big motivator to move here. More realistically you can convert your rent into property tax, and then also have to pay for a mortgage on top of that.
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Feb 18, 2020 06:49
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Plorkyeran posted:More realistically you can convert your rent into property tax, and then also have to pay for a mortgage on top of that. Ah, but with prop 13 your property tax will never go up in any meaningful way
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Feb 18, 2020 10:19
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CrazyLittle posted:Ah, but with prop 13 your property tax will never go up in any meaningful way Yep
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Feb 18, 2020 15:01
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sfba has some of the lowest rental yield in the world. comparable to shanghai at 1%. so, its a tremendously leveraged bet that nothing will happen to the us economy or the california economy or prop 13 specifically for the entire rest of your life or that the house will appreciate even harder somehow
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Feb 18, 2020 16:41
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it was actually a pretty great bet in like 1990 levered 3x. maybe not as great in 2020 levered 20x
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Feb 18, 2020 16:48
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so i do web, front end. 15 years ago, i started with a scrappy little agency. there's been a couple acquisitions, and even more name changes, but i definitely did not keep track of them. is it weird/wrong/unacceptable to do this in my resume: TITLE Agency A / Agency A2 / Massive_Fucking_Firm
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Feb 18, 2020 18:08
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pantsofdoom posted:so i do web, front end. 15 years ago, i started with a scrappy little agency. there's been a couple acquisitions, and even more name changes, but i definitely did not keep track of them. Use whatever its name was when you last worked for it. If you want you can mention that things you did increased its value enough that it wound up being acquired. The exception is if it's the firm that's been doing the acquiring and just changing names as it went. Then that's OK.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:27
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Steve French posted:High cost of living like SF, and then you mention those places being outside of SF as if that helps any? Maybe Seattle, I'm not personally familiar, but c'mon as if Los Gatos, Cupertino, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, or Mountain View, or any of the surrounding areas, are really substantively better. My point is really that your total compensation at a FAANG or company competing with a FAANG is really really high, to the point of being transformative around your future plans regardless of rent being turbofucked in the area. When the salaries and stock vestings come up people are shocked into disbelief at the earnings quoted but I assure you they are real and make up for the CoL.
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Feb 18, 2020 20:21
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Hadlock posted:If you manage to buy a house in the bay area you can convert your rent into savings. That's a big motivator to move here. Until the bubble collapses and now you owe 7 figures on a $500k house. Treating a mortgage in the bay area like savings is dumb as hell.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:49
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Less Fat Luke posted:I don't mean to blow smoke up your rear end or anything but those places don't consider themselves SF and SF doesn't consider them part of it. With the exception of Seattle though they're in the valley! And when I last lived in the area SF itself was still a good 25%+ more expensive than any of the surrounding area. Give another shot at re-reading several of my posts, and the one you're originally responding to. I've lived and worked all over the bay area for a long rear end time, I'm well aware of what places consider themselves SF and which do not, and my point is that that's irrelevant: the poster you quoted said "places like SF where cost of living is high enough that you're not going to be rich anyway" and those places are all absolutely like SF in that sense: to whatever extent that it's true of SF, it's also true of Mountain View, Cupertino, Los Gatos, Palo Alto, Menlo Park. If you read my later posts you'll also see that I'm not arguing that it's universally the case that the CoL makes it not worth it. But it can, for some, and acting like it's not a concern because it's not literally San Francisco is missing the point. Even if true that SF is 25% more expensive than those areas, what I'm saying still stands, but also worth noting (depending on how far you've been out of the area) that I think real estate prices in the peninsula and south bay have been increasing faster than in SF proper as well.
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Feb 18, 2020 23:56
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Less Fat Luke posted:When the salaries and stock vestings come up people are shocked into disbelief at the earnings quoted but I assure you they are real and make up for the CoL. Actually, if you have kids in the Bay Area, this is absolutely not guaranteed!
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Feb 19, 2020 00:07
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Jan posted:Actually, if you have kids in the Bay Area, this is absolutely not guaranteed! Hi, did you also miss the memo that the subject of kids was to be ignored in this conversation, apparently?
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Feb 19, 2020 00:09
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Steve French posted:Hi, did you also miss the memo that the subject of kids was to be ignored in this conversation, apparently? What memo? I thought we were supposed to silently ignore any mention of kids, as they are irrelevant to the Bay Area tech industry.
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Feb 19, 2020 00:16
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I'm expecting an offer this week and I'm trying to decide how I can maximize the outcome. I'm at a job I loathe and I'd probably take this job for a similar salary. I imagine my current employer can pay more than this company can, and that given some situational aspects they might be willing to. If I approach my current job when I have an offer in hand, what's the best way to get a good counteroffer so I can use that to leverage as much money as possible, knowing that I'm likely to take the other job regardless (I don't know if the new company knows this but they aren't stupid and can guess that I'm leaving my job for quality of life reasons after only eight months).
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Feb 19, 2020 00:23
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Steve French posted:Give another shot at re-reading several of my posts, and the one you're originally responding to. I've lived and worked all over the bay area for a long rear end time, I'm well aware of what places consider themselves SF and which do not, and my point is that that's irrelevant: the poster you quoted said "places like SF where cost of living is high enough that you're not going to be rich anyway" and those places are all absolutely like SF in that sense: to whatever extent that it's true of SF, it's also true of Mountain View, Cupertino, Los Gatos, Palo Alto, Menlo Park. If you read my later posts you'll also see that I'm not arguing that it's universally the case that the CoL makes it not worth it. But it can, for some, and acting like it's not a concern because it's not literally San Francisco is missing the point. As for kids I have zero experience with that but would it be substantially more expensive if you're not sending them to private school than somewhere else? I wouldn't ever make the decision ten years ago to have kids while working at most of the places we're discussing but these days they are taking great strides to compete with each other and have a better work/life balance (but now I'm in Canada where that seems a lot healthier in general so I'm curious as to what people think).
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Feb 19, 2020 01:12
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Preschool here costs basically the same as elsewhere in populated California. It's still insanely expensive, but it's fine on my single-income Google salary.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:42
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Ah okay, Toronto costs about 2000CDN per kid (~1500USD) so I get that pain.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:45
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Jose Valasquez posted:Until the bubble collapses and now you owe 7 figures on a $500k house. Treating a mortgage in the bay area like savings is dumb as hell. Noted
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Feb 19, 2020 09:35
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Jose Valasquez posted:Having worked at several companies before Google I'm treated better here than I was at other companies. It isn't perfect and there are things I would change, but it is still a very good place to work. I work 40 hours a week and I'm encouraged to talk to my manager if I feel pressured to work more than that based on the amount of work on my plate. The few times I have worked more than 40 hours I've been properly compensated. I find the work to be interesting and generally enjoy what I'm doing. Out of curiosity, if you stood up at your desk, stuck out your arms, and spun around, how many people would you smack in the head? By the time I left Google I was at around 5, maybe 6 if I put a bit of lean into it.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:01
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Progressive JPEG posted:Out of curiosity, if you stood up at your desk, stuck out your arms, and spun around, how many people would you smack in the head? 0
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Feb 19, 2020 13:33
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0 for me too
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Feb 19, 2020 15:39
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Less Fat Luke posted:Yeah I don't mean to come off as trying to convince you or the OP that it's not ludicrously expensive, but in my last search 1-2 years ago I did find SF still more expensive than the surrounding area. I'll take your word though. There's 4-5 years of child raising before they enter kindergarten; if you're lucky your area provides some form of pre-kindergarten program but in my experience it's typically not a full day. If both parents are working, you've likely gotta pay for daycare or a nanny for those years, and if both parents aren't working, then that's effectively costing you even more money. As mentioned my experience was that daycare for my kids (twins under 2) was about twice as expensive in the bay area ($2000/mo total for 3 half days a week, 8am-12pm) than where I am now (Lake Tahoe area, not exactly cheap either, ~$1000/mo total for 2 full days a week, 8am-5pm). Achmed Jones posted:Preschool here costs basically the same as elsewhere in populated California. It's still insanely expensive, but it's fine on my single-income Google salary. I'll admit that since my kids are still young and haven't entered preschool yet, I'm not absolutely positive of this, but in my browsing around now and before moving, this doesn't seem to be true, though I suppose you could argue that where I live is not populated California. Looking around where I was in the bay (El Cerrito/Albany area), the first five places I could find prices for ranged evenly from 1500 to 2000 a month for one kid full time 5 days a week. One place was 1255/month but only until 3pm. Contrasted with here, where it tops out at 1500 and there are several places well under 1000 (750, 880). I should be clear that I moved for lifestyle reasons, not money reasons: if my primary motivation was maximizing long-term earnings, I think staying in the bay area would have still been the right move, despite the high costs. But it wasn't, and the lower cost of living is just a bonus. Just in case it's useful to others, not meant as an argument against living in the bay: between just housing (mortgage, property tax), childcare, and commuting (BART), my costs changed by about $29k per year.
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Feb 19, 2020 18:26
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Does your office building exceed OSHA limits for number of employees per bathroom, where after being notified by an employee, the company solution is to park some “executive toilets” (porta potties on trailers) outside the front door? I call them the OSHA-compliance porta potties
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Feb 19, 2020 20:43
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Progressive JPEG posted:Does your office building exceed OSHA limits for number of employees per bathroom, where after being notified by an employee, the company solution is to park some “executive toilets” (porta potties on trailers) outside the front door? Nope, you should have escalated your complaints to memegen so something might be done about them
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Feb 19, 2020 21:25
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So does Google have the entire National Biscuit Company factory building or what?
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Feb 20, 2020 03:46
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Queen Victorian posted:So does Google have the entire National Biscuit Company factory building or what? Most of it, 4 out of 7 floors and 2 floors in the building across the street with 2 more in the works
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Feb 20, 2020 14:08
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Jose Valasquez posted:Most of it, 4 out of 7 floors and 2 floors in the building across the street with 2 more in the works Wow that’s a lot of space. And also expanding into the new building? Passing under your rainbow sky bridge right now on the bus, so hi!
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Feb 20, 2020 15:20
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Queen Victorian posted:Wow that’s a lot of space. And also expanding into the new building? I don't think there are currently plans to move into the third building, just continue to slowly consume the first two for now
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Feb 20, 2020 16:44
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It's the rainbow goo.
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Feb 20, 2020 18:47
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Jan posted:What memo? I thought we were supposed to silently ignore any mention of kids, as they are irrelevant to the Bay Area tech industry. no way. you can make a lot of money acquiring and selling kids' data
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Feb 21, 2020 11:35
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A real long shot here, but doesn't anyone here from Australia work for NAB? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what it's like to work there.
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Feb 25, 2020 23:54
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:A real long shot here, but doesn't anyone here from Australia work for NAB? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what it's like to work there. from dev friends it's not as good as CommBank or ANZ but mildly better than working for westpac
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Feb 26, 2020 08:00
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I was just offered a team lead position over a team I've never really worked with before. There seems to be quite a lot of communication and process issues and they're all much older than me. I was thinking about moving to a FAANG this year if possible but this is more aligned to what I want to do in the future. Any advice from people who have taken on this role before? Do they hire leads at FAANGs or is that all internal?
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Feb 26, 2020 23:48
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