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twistedmentat posted:I really like Kate when she's batwomaning, but yea 99% its all her upset about Alice/Beth and everything and its just so boring. Nothing about that plot is interesting or compelling but they just keep doubling down on it. It's like the Diaz seasons of Arrow but worse somehow. Same. Flash, Legends and Black Lightning are loving great this year, Arrow's over, and Supergirl is kinda meh too, but hasn't crossed the kind of line with me Batwoman did (but it's getting there fast), so unless there's a miraculous turnaround and the thread starts going bonkers over how good the show suddenly got I'm petty much done on it.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:14
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Tiggum posted:Legends of Tomorrow changed drastically after its terrible first season. Oh I remember. Vandal Savage, one of the greatest DC Villains that's criminally underused, reduced to "guy who throws knives good". Also Hawkman is terrible, and DC needs to learn that him and Hawkwoman do not have a great romance, its super creepy and weird and if a creepy perv like Paul Dini can see that, the whole company needs to learn it. Get rid of Mouse and Alice, and the whole Wonderland poo poo, get rid of the Crows and Sophie, have Kate be some philanthropist trying to deal with Gothams decay and corruption by day, and punching some young guy who calls himself the Riddler 2 by night. Bring Mary in on the secret as the person who stitches Kate up after being stabbed. nine-gear crow posted:Same. Flash, Legends and Black Lightning are loving great this year, Arrow's over, and Supergirl is kinda meh too, but hasn't crossed the kind of line with me Batwoman did (but it's getting there fast), so unless there's a miraculous turnaround and the thread starts going bonkers over how good the show suddenly got I'm petty much done on it. I'm hoping Supergirl pulls up. Get rid of the Obsidian North stuff and Leviathan and get rid of Lex as the worlds hero. Actually with the Superman show happening, Lex will probably be gone by this seasons end. But its not nearly as dire as Batwoman. I actually like the cast there. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 05:20
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Supergirl can be a bit back and forth on plot but I like the characters in it enough to even watch when it's boring. Batwoman has Mary and Luke as good and Kate's 50/50 but Alice is way overworked and Sophie... I don't want to just hate on her but good lord they're giving her all the dumb decisions and nothing to redeem the character.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:24
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I'm actually curious how Batwoman is going over on more mainstream social media/discussion sites like Reddit. I'm particularly curious if there are any defenders of the direction of the series.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:31
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I'm waiting for the Alice flashback episode where she goes to Nanda Parbat to become an elite stealth killing machine.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:31
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Xelkelvos posted:I'm actually curious how Batwoman is going over on more mainstream social media/discussion sites like Reddit. I'm particularly curious if there are any defenders of the direction of the series. Reddit went batshit on it when the first trailer dropped and they heard that line about the Batsuit being perfect... when it fits a woman. And from what I can tell they still have not come down from their WOMZ RUINED MY BATMENS CANCEL IT NOW perch, and never will until the show finally comes to an end. And even then a splinter of it will be stuck in their brains until they die. So probably a bad example to pick in terms of "how are normal people reacting to the show?"
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Feb 19, 2020 05:35
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Xelkelvos posted:I'm actually curious how Batwoman is going over on more mainstream social media/discussion sites like Reddit. I'm particularly curious if there are any defenders of the direction of the series.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:45
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nine-gear crow posted:So probably a bad example to pick in terms of "how are normal people reacting to the show?" AVClub gave the most recent episode a straight A, so what they're doing is working for somebody.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:54
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howe_sam posted:AVClub gave the most recent episode a straight A, so what they're doing is working for somebody. IGN gave it a 9/10 too, and they usually give it mediocre scores. I mean it was a fairly decent episode, it just broke its ankles trying to stick the landing.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:56
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In that regard, we're probably gonna end up seeing more of the same then if the reviews are at least lukewarm or better unless the writing team, themselves decides to modify course.
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Feb 19, 2020 06:14
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I honestly thought the episode was solid, just hated the ending.
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Feb 19, 2020 06:22
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I really thought when Alice was complaining about how easy Beth's life must have been, and then they start discussing other heroes that the plot was going to shift towards a Supergirl crossover, where Beth gets put in stasis in Supergirl's space pod or Phantom zoned until the multiverse is back online, and she gives a copy of her memories to give to J'onn. That way they could pivot from having to reform Alice, to convincing Alice that her trauma is in control of her and not the other way around, and that they can give her a fresh start by replacing her memories with Beth's. There would still be plenty of opportunities for easy drama, because Alice would be choosing between her current identity and real relationship with Mouse, for happy but fake memories, while team Batwoman discuss if it's all just down to the trauma, and if she deserves a second chance this big. It would have been a nice middle ground, and you could keep Beth around for future seasons. But boy, were my expectations subverted.
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Feb 19, 2020 06:32
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vseslav.botkin posted:I honestly thought the episode was solid, just hated the ending. Same, but I hated it in the same way that I "hate" a really evil movie villain. I understood from the start that of course they wouldn't kill off Alice, and when they had her save Beth and then go say goodbye to Alice it was inevitable that Beth was going to die a horrible death and Alice would once again have her sister not save her, and lose the little goodwill she had left for Kate. My main grudge with Alice is that she's the main and only villain. The Joker is great, but if a Batman show had Batman only battle the Joker and his henchmen forever we would all hate the Joker. My hope for the future of this show is that they'll make it more classic batman with a rogue gallery going in and out of Arkham. Also, have her battle some of Bruce's old adversaries in addition to her own. Bruce is gone, but his old enemies are still in Gotham. Last season's crossover showed us Arkham with classic Batman villains. I LIKE Alice and the actress playing her hams it up real good, but at the moment there's just too much of her. All the DC CW shows are at their worst when the heroes are just going after a singular foe. That's when you get your Diaz's and your Savitars. The reason Flash s1 was better than the next few seasons as that it was partly a "villain of the week" show, and when the reverse flash plot was introduced it started off taking a backseat to King Shark, Gorilla Grodd and The Trickster. Most of the other CW shows eventually found a way to combine the two by having a central plot creating the minor plots (like Astra releasing the evil souls in the current Legends or The Thinker giving 12 people super powers by exposing a bus to dark matter energy thus creating 12 villains of the week), but I also see the other shows going into having two or more "main" plots and dividing the seasons into arcs.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:59
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muscles like this! posted:I know Kate isn't exactly on friendly terms with other heroes (with the exception of Kara) but it felt really awkward that she didn't go for help from
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Feb 19, 2020 19:05
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kjetting posted:
I agree here. By contrast, I've gotten two seasons into Black Lightning and it does the primary nemesis thing a lot better. Lots of sub-bosses, side stories, separate villain factions, and a more compelling surrounding city in crisis mood. That and the protagonists have a whole lot more of their own poo poo going on even outside of the suits.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:56
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The problem with this series isn't Alice, it's Mouse. It's Mouse and his janky rear end dimestore Professor Pyg dad. They're a drag on the entire series, the sole lynchpin of CAN ALICE BE SAVED???, and the most boring villain/actor in the history of everything ever. His one talent is... pretending to be other people? Hooray? It's like someone took Hush or Jane Doe and went, how can we make this the least interesting thing on screen at any given time AND actively tank interest in the show with it? Take Mouse out, and it's just a story of Batwoman trying to redeem her sister and slowly finding out nope, she's just a grinning Joker style sociopath who wants to murder the entire world, which would be a million times more interesting than right now. If they wanted to use Mouse as a character that bad, they should've had his death be the point where Alice snapped and then reveal at the season climax he's been playing her the whole time. And also come up with a better name for him than loving Mouse. They couldn't even be bothered to call him Doormouse. That's how little effort they put into this character. I'm pretty confident season 2 will be better since this wouldn't be the first time Arrowverse writers have hosed up a season and kicked out of it afterwards, but I'm checking out for now. I had to do that twice with Arrow, and it looks like this show is cruising its way towards season 2 in ratings, so it should be fine and I'll come back later unless something really wild happens. Just... just get rid of Mouse. Please. It's like the hawks on LoT, dropping him would instantly improve the season up to at least "watchable." Chokes McGee fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 23:08
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Killer robot posted:I agree here. By contrast, I've gotten two seasons into Black Lightning and it does the primary nemesis thing a lot better. Lots of sub-bosses, side stories, separate villain factions, and a more compelling surrounding city in crisis mood. That and the protagonists have a whole lot more of their own poo poo going on even outside of the suits. Tobias also works as a long term villain because he has a life outside of Black Lightning, and Jefferson is largely just “that rear end in a top hat in the flashy suit that I’ll kill one of these days”, as opposed to an obsessive threat to him. After 5 seasons, the Flash writers finally figured out that villains who are laser focused on destroying the heroes don’t work and brought in Bloodwork, who barely gave a poo poo about Barry until the end of his arc. Alice, meanwhile, seems to have no life outside of being a bitch to Kate, or being a bitch to Kate by extreme proxy.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:50
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nine-gear crow posted:Tobias also works as a long term villain because he has a life outside of Black Lightning, and Jefferson is largely just “that rear end in a top hat in the flashy suit that I’ll kill one of these days”, as opposed to an obsessive threat to him. I mean, Prometheus was all about being a bitch to Oliver, and that season was fantastic. It's just that people keep trying to "save" Alice when she clearly doesn't want to be saved. And they keep either letting her go in the stupidest ways, or she keeps escaping in the dumbest ways. The heroes need to have victories that actually last in this show, and they either never do or they don't feel earned.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:18
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a bit late butTwoPair posted:lol gently caress this whole show  i tried really hard giving this a chance. that ending just plain...ugh. ill skip to the finale.
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Feb 20, 2020 06:43
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I do enjoy the rapport between Kate and Luke. Also, Mary, still the best.
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Feb 24, 2020 02:20
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Interesting club mix using "Na na na na na na na na" Kate's bar has a bartender in drag and she's in one of the outfits from her comics which looks way more striking when the character was 6ft tall, pale and had red hair. Edit: I'm wrong about the outfit, that's just a tie draped around her neck and not suspenders. Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 02:21
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Yay Mary, put those pieces together!
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Feb 24, 2020 02:58
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howe_sam posted:Yay Mary, put those pieces together! I'm glad they're getting this out of the way now. otoh, I'm not glad for the dumb relationship drama that's gonna spark from Sophie and Batwoman. Also MORE VOTW plots! Huzzah!
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Feb 24, 2020 03:00
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Huh, doesn't sound as dire as last weeks.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:09
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Nice to see that they're still running that Batwoman is a lesbian magazine cover whenever they can.
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Feb 24, 2020 05:17
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nine-gear crow posted:Reddit went batshit on it when the first trailer dropped and they heard that line about the Batsuit being perfect... when it fits a woman. And from what I can tell they still have not come down from their WOMZ RUINED MY BATMENS CANCEL IT NOW perch, and never will until the show finally comes to an end. And even then a splinter of it will be stuck in their brains until they die. In fairness though, the question Xelkelvos asked was 'how are normal people reacting to the show?' not 'How are redditors reacting to the show?' I don't think it's completely hopeless. And supergirl had a really good episode this week. Edit: just caught up on this week's batwoman, and it's the strongest episode of the season so far I think. I'd go so far as to call it good. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 17:19
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howe_sam posted:Yay Mary, put those pieces together! Although they definitely should have just brought her in way before this.
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Feb 25, 2020 02:08
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Now we just have to hope for "I know now, but I get why it was secret" instead of cry-talking.
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Feb 25, 2020 04:22
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Bruceski posted:Now we just have to hope for "I know now, but I get why it was secret" instead of cry-talking. Part of me could easily see Mary walking into Kate's office while her and Luke are discussing something and going "So, you're Batwoman." and Kate being such a dipshit the she goes "How do you know that?" and everyone just shrugging and getting on the same page. But this is an Arrowverse show, and Batwoman in particular, so probably best to expect the worst possible outcome, like, I dunno, Sophie shoots Alice in an alleyway and the bullet somehow curves and flies across town backwards and strikes Mary dead on the spot.
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Feb 25, 2020 04:28
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nine-gear crow posted:But this is an Arrowverse show, and Batwoman in particular, so probably best to expect the worst possible outcome, like, I dunno, Sophie shoots Alice in an alleyway and the bullet somehow curves and flies across town backwards and strikes Mary dead on the spot. And then Kate says it's okay and they gently caress
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Feb 25, 2020 04:32
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So is the implication of the "vampire" stuff that Mary has lost her magic healing blood? Because I don't think that is how it works.
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Feb 25, 2020 04:35
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muscles like this! posted:Although they definitely should have just brought her in way before this. Considering Iris was the last person to find out Barry was the Flash and she remains one of the most cool-headed and rational people on Team Flash, I don't think there's anything to worry about. Also, when Mary realized Kate is Batwoman, there was a sense of wonder in her expression and voice, not anger or confusion.
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Feb 25, 2020 10:25
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muscles like this! posted:So is the implication of the "vampire" stuff that Mary has lost her magic healing blood? Because I don't think that is how it works. I think Mary said the leftover healing factor had already filtered out of her bloodstream before she was kidnapped.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:06
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howe_sam posted:I think Mary said the leftover healing factor had already filtered out of her bloodstream before she was kidnapped. I think it was that there's no trace of it, which totally means that it's still there, just undetectable. It's too big of a thing not to show up again in the last stretch of the season.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:43
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It's going to be the explanation for why Mary has super powers and suits up in season 2.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:49
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Turns out Beth was only getting better because of the placebo effect.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:55
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You know I expected this episode to be all moapy, but nope, actually decent. My favorite thing in this episode was the giant Royal Bank sign behind Kane when he was releassed from jail. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 06:12
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Just caught up. Still like Alice but obviously agree that the whole Beth fakeout was lame and frustrating and I was honestly ready to let go of Alice. Of course i didn't think they would but for awhile they had me convinced they'd kill Alice and then reveal Beth is actually crazy and psycho too and is just way better at faking it so she just becomes new Alice. But yeah, the problem I think isn't with Alice, its that Alice needs to take a back seat and there need to be more Batvillains. And Kate and Sophie is a bad but unsurprising turn. Hopefully it just hastens her death by end of the season. But Mary figuring poo poo out is good and a step forward because I can only hope Mary will stay true to character and just walk up to Kate and be all "what the gently caress?!"
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Mar 3, 2020 22:28
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Having Sophie kill Beth would have been a ballsy move, unexpected. It would have had long term consequences and would have been interesting. Having bad guy's kidnapper come out of the woodwork just to kill her was dumb and made me so angry. How did they find them? How did the both find them? I was so angry I couldn't even speak for a few minutes. Why bother introducing Beth just to kill her two episodes later? Why do any of that writers. You wrote that. That was your idea. Oh, can't have them both one must die and they've got less than a day to survive. You did that. You loving writers. I was as mad as when Dr. Beckett was killed off on Stargate Atlantis. I quit watching Atlantis after that episode and if my wife didn't also like Batwoman, I'd stop watching this. But I am still watching it, aren't I? I watched Nocturna and everybody seems to be moving on from Beth and nobody is bothering to tell law enforcement or the Crows that "by the way, the crazy lady is still alive even though someone murdered her." No? Just keeping that to themselves? What did Luke say when it called the police? Did he literally say "Alice is outside the club?" because why would the cops even believe him. It could have been written any way the writers imagined, and that's what they did.
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Mar 3, 2020 23:09
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I'm very glad they didn't have Sophie kill Beth because that would have been a whole lot of circular angst and repeat of the Kate/Alice stuff where Sophie felt she was justified to kill Alice and everyone kinda agreed but they'd have to explain why she should feel guilty for killing an alternate earth doppelganger she didn't know was possible. I would have only accepted it in the form of an Abbot and Costello routine. "How could you kill Beth? "I killed Alice!" "Yeah, killing Alice would have been ok. You killed Beth!" "Yeah, I said I killed Alice!" "You killed Beth!" "Beth is Alice!" But it would have been less fun than that and I'm glad we were able to skip it.
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Mar 3, 2020 23:14
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