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Heather Papps posted:i had an inkling  Theory: inklings are distant relatives of sandtrout. Both are apparent sea creatures that are killed by water and both are vital to their world's ecosystem
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Feb 18, 2020 22:11
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Bubblyblubber posted:I think Tolkien was just angry he didn't come up with Amam pussy magic first. Good point! Tolkien is very interested in the distinction between magic and art. Elves don't do magic, and seem to be offended when humans or hobbits say that they do. Elves do art or craftsmanship (although, after a few thousand years of practice, they're really really good at it-- c.f. the Hobbits asking if elven cloaks are magic, and the dialogue around that.) Sauron does magic; Tolkien wrote elsewhere that magic and technology are very closely related. Both are centred around control and power and the imposition of one's will- bulldozing in the literal and symbolic sense. And both feature a terrible price to pay, be it mental disintegration or pollution whatever. So yeah, the weirdo Dune stuff absolutely fits Tolkiens definition of "magic" in that it is being used to control another person; if it was done out of love for them and for beauty, it would begin to cross the line into "bene gesserit pussy art." Heather Papps posted:One Spice to rule them all, One Worm to find it, One planet to bring them all, and in the desert bind them asasjdlkfjkjksaldf
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Feb 18, 2020 22:20
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Elves def do magic. Come on now.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:21
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The elves would be very offended to hear you say that. If, you know, they existed.The Bloop posted:
To be really boring, the Inklings was a writer's club that Tolkien and C.S. Lewis and a few others belonged to.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:25
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The flood at the ford of Bruinen wasn’t really good craftsmanship or whatever.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:26
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Haha, fair enough. I wonder if the idea is "elves absolutely do magic, they're just kind of snobbish about it."
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Feb 18, 2020 22:36
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I always figured the elves just didn't make a distinction between "magical" and physical actions. They didn't cast spells, they just did things, and some of their actions were unavailable to humans.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:39
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Here is what Gala’ says ‘Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal,’ she answered, ‘and to some I can show what they desire to see. But the Mirror will also show things unbidden, and those are often stranger and more profitable than things which we wish to behold. What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?’ Frodo did not answer. ‘And you?’ she said, turning to Sam. ‘For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel. Did you not say that you wished to see Elf-magic?’
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Feb 18, 2020 22:41
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winnydpu posted:I always figured the elves just didn't make a distinction between "magical" and physical actions. They didn't cast spells, they just did things, and some of their actions were unavailable to humans. Might be because I just smoked some melange, but did Tolkien like Clarke? The whole "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" quote seems to come into play here. The elves are just really, really good at art. Anyone on the outside is gonna say "wooo, magic!" To put it in cruder terms: my cats probably think I am a high sorceress because I can make ghost prey available for them to chase with a click of my fingers (hint: it's a laser pointer) My spray bottle is a killing word when they jump on the kitchen counter
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Feb 18, 2020 23:51
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JacquelineDempsey posted:
   And how can this BEEE For he is the Kitchen Counterach
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Feb 19, 2020 00:31
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kiimo posted:
MANY MACHINES ON IX. NEW MACHINES. 
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Feb 19, 2020 00:33
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Might be because I just smoked some melange, but did Tolkien like Clarke? The whole "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" quote seems to come into play here. The elves are just really, really good at art. Anyone on the outside is gonna say "wooo, magic!" In the early drafts of the Silmarillion, Sauron took the place of a character called Thu... and Thu in turn had taken the place of a character called  TEVILDO, PRINCE OF CATS . His power was the ability to control cats.I will never, ever forgive Tolkien for taking Tevildo away from us.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:11
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Might be because I just smoked some melange, but did Tolkien like Clarke? The whole "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" quote seems to come into play here. The elves are just really, really good at art. Anyone on the outside is gonna say "wooo, magic!" Lotr was written a long time before Clarke came up with that
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Feb 19, 2020 01:19
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Shaddak posted:What do you get when you guzzle down spice? I get gom jabbared but i keep my hand in again you're never gonna get me struck down
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Feb 19, 2020 01:47
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Tree Bucket posted:In the early drafts of the Silmarillion, Sauron took the place of a character called Thu... and Thu in turn had taken the place of a character called Worth mentioning that Tevildo, Prince of Cats was himself a giant cat  Pre-Hobbit Tolkien was loving nuts
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Feb 19, 2020 01:52
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Correction: it owned
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Feb 19, 2020 01:54
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Also who put that collar on the cat. magic.gif
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Feb 19, 2020 01:55
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Also who put that collar on the cat. Satan
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Feb 19, 2020 01:55
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This Tevildo business sounds like something out of Roverandom-era Tolkien
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Feb 19, 2020 01:56
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((Maiar in cat form))
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Feb 19, 2020 01:58
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Cator Catorath
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Feb 19, 2020 01:58
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frodo distracting the eye of tevildo by shining a laser pointer near it
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Feb 19, 2020 02:00
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euphronius posted:((Maiar in cat form)) No Maiar yet, the Book of Lost Tales stuff divides the later Maiar between the gods’ children and random rear end spirits incl. mermaids, dryads, and giant cats
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Feb 19, 2020 02:00
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Also huge vampire bats and hell dogs.
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Feb 19, 2020 02:03
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And armored personnel carriers
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Feb 19, 2020 02:05
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Cross over : the tolkien giant worms are the same as the dune worms
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Feb 19, 2020 02:07
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skasion posted:And armored personnel carriers Attack helicopters? (Boooooo! Boo this man!)
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Feb 19, 2020 02:08
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Also who put that collar on the cat. The eagles.
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Feb 19, 2020 02:09
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yaffle posted:The eagles. 
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Feb 19, 2020 04:47
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magic cactus posted:frodo distracting the eye of tevildo by shining a laser pointer near it please update the boromir catapult gif euphronius posted:Cross over : the tolkien giant worms are the same as the dune worms Shai Halúvatar
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Feb 19, 2020 05:24
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Honestly, Sauron's fundamental self-centredness, cruelty and desire for shiny things makes a lot more sense for a big ole cat.kiimo posted:Shai Halúvatar Praise the Maker [of everything]
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Feb 19, 2020 05:55
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Tree Bucket posted:Haha, fair enough. I wonder if the idea is "elves absolutely do magic, they're just kind of snobbish about it." They aren't "tricks", dad. They're Illusions
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Feb 19, 2020 08:05
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Sixty new posts in the Dune thread, wonder if the teaser finally dro- oh.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:19
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sebmojo posted:Lotr was written a long time before Clarke came up with that oh, I know, I just was wondering if later in life he liked Clarke because he was all "yeah, this guy gets it!". Wasn't implying Clarke an influence or anything like that. That quote seemed to sum up the whole "are elves doing magic or art/science" debate nicely, so it sprang to mind. I don't really know squat about Tolkien, so this discussion on his vs. Herbert's background/mentality/drive has been interesting.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:20
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Vlex posted:Sixty new posts in the Dune thread, wonder if the teaser finally dro- oh. they were good posts tho
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Feb 19, 2020 09:57
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One does not simply walk without rhythm
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Feb 19, 2020 10:17
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In sietch Tabr, in the stank of Tau Orgy, Naib Stilgar strained in secret, a monster loaf, bigger than all others. And out of this stool he extracted all moisture, all juices to evaporate them to support all life. One poo to hydrate all.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:50
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It's taken me forever to finish all the Dune books (not gonna touch the Brian books for a while), kinda hard to take it all in when it's an audio book so, the ending to chapterhouse, what's up with the facedancers in the end? I get they absorbed so many peoples "identities" and became self-aware, but why were they in peoples visions?
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Feb 19, 2020 11:02
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Thread joke answer is "space brain magic" Failson official lore answer is "space lord Cybertrex magic" Actual answer is unclear, but Herbert seems to have already established that human consciousness transcends space time. Spice and innate abilities allow humans to see possible futures, Alia can bend time to make Paul hear her voice in the future/past, teg goes supersayan just by thinking about it, Duncan is so hunky and lived so many lives he can see no-ships and make ladies all warm and tingly just by climbing walls and poo poo. It is by will alone, etc. So it would not surprise me if his plans for the face dancers would have been as a foil to Duncan's humanity. Duncan lived many lives, the dancers absorbed many lives, if you put to much human in a single brain poo poo gets weird. It sure is a shame Herbert died and no further material was ever written on the dune universe after chapterhouse.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:18
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:they were good posts tho Yeah they were I'm just jonesing for DUNC visuals and info
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Feb 19, 2020 12:32
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