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Looking forward to the labour crisis lol. My biggest worry is honestly that this nonsense somehow works and fixes the lovely job market by just kicking out a large chunk of the labour force and everyone thinks it was a great idea.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:31
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Saros posted:Seriously who is going to do all the low skill, lovely pay but incredibly necessary stuff currently done by Euro immigrants. I guess the companies could pay them more aaaaahahahahahahhhhhhhh pppffffttttt. It's gonna be workfare op
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Feb 19, 2020 10:33
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Saros posted:Seriously who is going to do all the low skill, lovely pay but incredibly necessary stuff currently done by Euro immigrants. I guess the companies could pay them more aaaaahahahahahahhhhhhhh pppffffttttt.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:51
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What's the end goal of that? I always figured that when push came to shove, "treat migrants as mobile livestock for business goals" would always win out over "number go down but whiter" among Tory MPs.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:55
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I am still not convinced that the boris government is thinking that far ahead. I don't think they've gotten over the tory problem of having literally nobody competent at the top, but they've blundered their way into a big majority through incredible short termism re: brexit and now everyone thinks they're geniuses.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:56
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Guavanaut posted:What's the end goal of that? If society won’t let you get away with doing an eugenics openly, simply reorganise society so that only those with your desired characteristics are able to survive.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:01
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my god 90% of my fellow workers are from outside the UK
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Feb 19, 2020 11:04
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Guavanaut posted:What's the end goal of that? Boris is going back to pre Thatcherite Toryism, where there are things more important than private profits - staying in power and pandering to racist tabloids are it (as opposed to Cameron, would would pander just enough to get them off his back and continue maximising profits).
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Feb 19, 2020 11:06
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Guavanaut posted:What's the end goal of that? They purged the sensible thinkers, remember? They don't care about anything except their immediate wants and desires. If they'd lived in the antebellum South they'd advocate for the extermination of the blacks even though their plantations depended on slave labour.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:07
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I think this is basically why-fascism-collapses.doc so it's no surprise, but are they just hoping nobody else notices that? So where does this leave us and what can we do about it?
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Feb 19, 2020 11:12
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ThomasPaine posted:Ha yes stem phds are obviously just inherently worth twice as much as their colleagues in other disciplines, very cool precedent! Potentially 3x as much if they get the other tick too.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:12
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Guavanaut posted:What's the end goal of that? 
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Feb 19, 2020 11:14
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Guavanaut posted:I think this is basically why-fascism-collapses.doc so it's no surprise, but are they just hoping nobody else notices that? I don't think they're fascists, I think boris is an over educated posh boy who believes he's very clever and is coincidentally very racist and intends to just fiddle with the country until it's all very good. However he has no idea how it works, so he's going to just break a lot of things and he's going to be reliant on the media to cover for him. Which they will try, of course, but it remains to be seen if they can do it well enough, and I am also not sure if he is committed enough to not backtrack if it starts to look difficult. Cummings to the contrary is apparently a Very Rational Skeptic who has been handed half control over the country, and faces similar problems of not actually understanding how anything works but is a slightly different flavour of nasty. You could be looking at a very stupid premiership that pisses away its welcome very quickly.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:17
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Jedit posted:They purged the sensible thinkers, remember? They don't care about anything except their immediate wants and desires. If they'd lived in the antebellum South they'd advocate for the extermination of the blacks even though their plantations depended on slave labour. By sensible thinkers, you mean self interested amoral parasites instead of rabid frothing gammons? RE the 'cheap labour' jobs, the general consensus seem to be 'force the youth/lazy benefits scroungers to do it' rather than 'pay people what they are actually worth'.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:22
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mrpwase posted:It's gonna be workfare op Ding ding ding. This is it. "You want your benefits then work 20 hours a week for it"
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Feb 19, 2020 11:22
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Gonzo McFee posted:Change UK did what it set out to do, syphon a bunch of votes from Labour that never came back and turn them into the anti Brexit party. I really don't think they all wanted to no longer be MPs within a year
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Feb 19, 2020 11:27
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Paperhouse posted:I really don't think they all wanted to no longer be MPs within a year Mike gapes might be that thick but I think a lot of them didn't care, they wanted to parley it into some series of worthless posh people media jobs.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:29
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forkboy84 posted:Ding ding ding. This is it. "You want your benefits then work 20 hours a week for it" Only 20 hours?
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Feb 19, 2020 11:30
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a neurotic ai posted:By sensible thinkers, you mean self interested amoral parasites instead of rabid frothing gammons? I don't know. You have to remember that the Tories now effectively have a very different electorate. Johnson's majority came from a lot of people living precariously who believed getting brexit done really would make life better. If Johnson has any ideas about longevity of his premiership then I really don't think he can afford to launch another full scale war on the poor like Cameron and Osborne indulged in from 2010 - 2015
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Feb 19, 2020 11:30
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Guavanaut posted:What's the end goal of that?
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Feb 19, 2020 11:31
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https://twitter.com/petermccoll/status/1230032822976548866?s=21 Good point. Think of this as an attack on workers' rights more than a serious attempt to kick people out.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:31
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ThomasPaine posted:Ha yes stem phds are obviously just inherently worth twice as much as their colleagues in other disciplines, very cool precedent! Who doesn't want an influx of Permo-Triassic Shark experts?
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Feb 19, 2020 11:36
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a neurotic ai posted:By sensible thinkers, you mean self interested amoral parasites instead of rabid frothing gammons? I'll take self-interested amoral parasites over what we have. At least the former have a vested interest in preserving a functional society, even if it's only because functioning societies are more profitable.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:36
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think they're fascists, I think boris is an over educated posh boy who believes he's very clever and is coincidentally very racist and intends to just fiddle with the country until it's all very good. Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/petermccoll/status/1230032822976548866?s=21
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Feb 19, 2020 11:37
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I don't know which I prefer to be honest, ideology has done some horrific poo poo but we've been living through some absolute horror done in the name of money too. Feeling like someone would kill you, not even intentionally, just as a byproduct, as an unnoticed statistic, to add a few quid to an account somewhere... It feels worse in a way, at least the ideologues might care enough to hate you. There's something cosmic horrory about an engine of human misery that kills blindly and pointlessly without even noticing. Plus I feel like pushing the view of society beyond managerial capitalism is better turf for us to fight on, given we're selling dreams and all.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:41
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think they're fascists, I think boris is an over educated posh boy who believes he's very clever and is coincidentally very racist and intends to just fiddle with the country until it's all very good. Fascists don't have to self-identify as fascists, to be fascists. It's about the means they use to exercise power, and Boris is following a playbook... E: and migrant workers are already often held in abominably lovely conditions that amount, functionally, to modern slavery in a number of industries, this just makes that all more likely.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:42
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Eh, everyone currently in the UK is being let stay. While the home office will make ~5% of those stateless from malicious beurocratcy, it's not a systematic effort, and many migrant workers are leaving the UK anyways. If these businesses treated their workers well, they wouldn't need a constant flow of EU migrant labour to exploit, they could just manage with their current workforce.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:42
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thespaceinvader posted:Fascists don't have to self-identify as fascists, to be fascists. It's about the means they use to exercise power, and Boris is following a playbook... I think the book he's following is far more about his own upper class sense of self worth and that the world really needs to hear his views on everything. I think, fundamentally, he never stopped being a columnist. And thus he is lazy and mostly in it for the self aggrandizement, which makes him dangerous, sure, but I don't think he, personally, has the kind of drive and ideological commitment to stick at it through criticism. More likely I think he'll try a series of vanity projects that will fail. The greater danger is what his style normalizes and the potential for a lack of opposition, because there will be people coming after him who will have the will and coherent vision to do things a lot more dangerous.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:46
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I am so sick of the state of reporting on the flooding in this country atm. You maybe get a throwaway line in a 10 minute report about how maybe we can expect more of this kind of thing because of global warming and the rest of the 10 minutes is just asking passersby how they are reacting to this event and having a nosey around poor Paula's house and by Jesus she'd only just had her living room done up last August and her new dream cooker put in before Christmas. Now it's hosed.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:50
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As a STEM PhD, I'd like to know why such an emphasis is being put on that when unless you go into academia or high finance, there are very few jobs, research funding is being cut to the bone and with Brexit we're going to be losing a lot of European project cash too. I made the career-fatal error of graduating in 1981 when there were gently caress all 'graduate' jobs unless you wanted to develop even more wonderful ways of destroying thousands of brown people in faraway lands (and even if I wanted to throw my principles away had been on too many CND marches videotaped by police to get away with it!) and discovered that by 'graduates in science and maths' what "they" really wanted was 'people who can sit on an assembly line and push components into boards'. As someone above said, it's social care in particular that is going to suffer.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:51
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That was the 80s. They want people who can watch a pick and place machine and tell when it goes wrong now.
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Feb 19, 2020 11:55
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crispix posted:I am so sick of the state of reporting on the flooding in this country atm. You maybe get a throwaway line in a 10 minute report about how maybe we can expect more of this kind of thing because of global warming and the rest of the 10 minutes is just asking passersby how they are reacting to this event and having a nosey around poor Paula's house and by Jesus she'd only just had her living room done up last August and her new dream cooker put in before Christmas. Now it's hosed. This is the sort of thing that'll make people take notice though. They can imagine themselves in Paula's situation (some people round my way have a metre of water in their homes and everything is wrecked) but not some 'airy fairy libtard snowflake nonsense' about global warming when it was a bit cold last night so any fule kno it's not true). It's standard reporting practice to bring it down to the particular - eg "10000 people killed in tsunami including British couple Mr & Mrs Smith on their honeymoon." (My mum was supposed to be going on a cruise in a few weeks on that Princess boat with coronavirus that's marooned off the coast of Japan or wherever which has made me take more notice of it than I might otherwise!)
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Feb 19, 2020 11:58
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Eh, everyone currently in the UK is being let stay. Not sure that's true, OP.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:21
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An Idiot posted:I trust the Government who shipped off Windrushers to secure and protect the rights of foreign natinals currently residing here
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Feb 19, 2020 12:25
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Saros posted:Seriously who is going to do all the low skill, lovely pay but incredibly necessary stuff currently done by Euro immigrants. I guess the companies could pay them more aaaaahahahahahahhhhhhhh pppffffttttt. Can't wait to go hacking next summer past the polytunnels full of rotten strawberries.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:28
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Lungboy posted:Not sure that's true, OP. what's a few thousand windrush deportations between friends
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Feb 19, 2020 12:34
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Eh, everyone currently in the UK is being let stay. Post/username combo, assuming it refers to your IQ. This is a blatant attempt to tell EU nationals that they'll have the right to remain in the UK while finding as many ways as possible to exclude people from the policy.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:37
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OwlFancier posted:I think the book he's following is far more about his own upper class sense of self worth and that the world really needs to hear his views on everything. I think, fundamentally, he never stopped being a columnist. And thus he is lazy and mostly in it for the self aggrandizement, which makes him dangerous, sure, but I don't think he, personally, has the kind of drive and ideological commitment to stick at it through criticism. More likely I think he'll try a series of vanity projects that will fail. Fundamentally Trump never stopped being a grifting reality show host, and Hitler never stopped being a failed painter. That didn't stop Hitler being a fascist, and it hasn't stopped Trump being a fascist. What you started as doesn't matter, what matters is what you do and Boris is doing fascism. I had this exact argument with people elsewhere about Trump, and it's hideously disheartening to see it happening again.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:45
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I'm not denying the casual racism of the government will deport a few thousand citizens and the chilling effectively cause more to leave, but even pre settled status gives right to work in the UK? And they've already given that to 2.4 million EU citizens. There's no grand conspiracy hear to trap EU citizens in illegal jobs, just the casual racism of a government that doesn't give a gently caress about those who slip through the cracks.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:54
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Nothingtoseehere posted:I'm not denying the casual racism of the government will deport a few thousand citizens and the chilling effectively cause more to leave, but even pre settled status gives right to work in the UK? And they've already given that to 2.4 million EU citizens. There's no grand conspiracy hear to trap EU citizens in illegal jobs, just the casual racism of a government that doesn't give a gently caress about those who slip through the cracks. You, uh, may want to read up on how easy and reliable applying for settled status is.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:55
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