|
Tesseraction posted:nah I'm a white supremacist despite being Bharat Indian Didn't mean it that way, I'd probably be one by those standards. TBH while there wasn't a major shift in the arc of history or such it does feel like Britain is significantly less welcoming of foreigners (both white and otherwise) now then under New Labour. See the folks voting for Brexit to get rid of Muslim Private Speech fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Feb 20, 2020 |
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
Tesseraction posted:Honestly while Canada is lorded over by Justin "let me kiss your arse Modi" Trudeau, I absolutely understand your POV. At least JT is just moderately poo poo rather than our current government's attempts to beat each others' speedrun records for worst human being alive. Justin Trudeau is undeniably terrible, but at least he doesn't deliberately gamble the interests of the country with populist acts of self-sabotage. The scary thing is the Tories over here are currently spouting the exact same fountain of horse poo poo David Cameron's Tories were and people are starting to get frustrated by Trudeau's inability to get anything done, so who knows how long it'll be before Canada is equally as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:15
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Several countries (Canada for one I believe) do tax wealth worldwide. So does the US and Brazil.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:16
|
|
|
I appreciate you being more nuanced on the topic of independence coolcab. The thing with the SNP splitting is, well you say so yourself it's a big tent. I can't see why young left wing activists and tartan tories would be in the same party any more without independence as a shared goal. And re Canada, ten years of tories makes a leader who at least pretends to be nice look great in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:20
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/virgiltexas/status/1230279612065697796?s=19 Nice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:24
|
|
|
marktheando posted:I appreciate you being more nuanced on the topic of independence coolcab. The thing with the SNP splitting is, well you say so yourself it's a big tent. I can't see why young left wing activists and tartan tories would be in the same party any more without independence as a shared goal. Honestly the two main parties here and also the third party which is the nominally leftist one are just liberals. Mildly different flavours but liberals. I get the sense that the Tories here (yes they do also call them that) are *currently* less evil than the British Tories but it's still all poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:29
|
|
|
WhatEvil posted:Honestly the two main parties here and also the third party which is the nominally leftist one are just liberals. Mildly different flavours but liberals. I get the sense that the Tories here (yes they do also call them that) are *currently* less evil than the British Tories but it's still all poo poo. It's important to remember the British Tories of today are without question the worst iteration of the Tories since the Thatcher era, in fact, perhaps since forever. They have been rapidly getting much worse ever since UKIP started stealing their voter base. David Cameron was mild by comparison.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:34
|
|
|
CoolCab posted:poorly, in my opinion - of course this is far from the first time this has been tried, nor is it the first time marxist tradition has addressed this issue - rosa luxemburg famously wrote on it, as did lenin (i will confess i have bounced off The National Question a few times now). leftists always think they can ride that tiger - my reaction to "civic nationalism" is roughly analogous to my reaction to "enhanced interrogation" - liberal nationalism (the synonym of the term) fits far better imo. In this case, it would be a liberal form of nationalism versus an increasing aliberal if not reactionary form of nationalism. Also, I honestly doubt the UK is becoming a worker led state in any viable timeframe so I don’t know if the comparison holds.. quote:i've never, ever understood the reasoning for the latter - i suspect that if we moved to independence soon we would have the snp, or possibly a similarly liberal continuity party, with the conservatives as a second party and maybe labour and some leftist parties fighting for third - which is to say, the exact same configuration we have now. i'm not entirely sure why the SNP is supposed to disintegrate if it's managed to make itself popular enough to achieve independence? it would only do so with a long record of good governance? I don’t understand why Scottish politics would suddenly lurch to the right in that case, if anything Scottish Labour would gain a substantial left-wing SNP voters as the SNP fades from relevance.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:35
|
|
|
qhat posted:It's important to remember the British Tories of today are without question the worst iteration of the Tories since the Thatcher era, in fact, perhaps since forever. They have been rapidly getting much worse ever since UKIP started stealing their voter base. David Cameron was mild by comparison. Oh, yeah, you don't need to tell me that. Honestly I haven't been paying that much attention to Canadian politics so far because I can't vote or anything yet. I'm pretty glad that the People's Party got outright rejected by the public though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:37
|
|
|
marktheando posted:I appreciate you being more nuanced on the topic of independence coolcab. The thing with the SNP splitting is, well you say so yourself it's a big tent. I can't see why young left wing activists and tartan tories would be in the same party any more without independence as a shared goal. you have to remember i always argued practically on material conditions and morally on nationalist ones - i would be enormously wilfully ignorant or ideologically blinkered to pretend the former hasn't radically changed. it was painfully clear the day after the brexit vote the argument for another referendum was kind of inevitable, even moreso as the Remain campaign demanded rerunning referenda. self determination is sacrosanct - tragically moreso to me than it is boris johnson, but hey. nationalism is still a moral atrocity, it's still mind poison. and risking enormous shocks to a nation's material conditions for nationalism is still sickness compounded. but we as a nation have enthusiastically ticked the "barbarism" box in our ballot while scribbling swastikas all over the "socialism" option, it's hard not to sympathize with efforts to get the gently caress out. again i'm loving off to canada god willing and the creek don't rise. good luck.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:48
|
|
|
Move to America once Bernie is elected and ushers in a socialist utopia.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:53
|
|
|
The entire world's only going to go right wing with the climate refugees guys. Don't worry about it, just get drunk and smash things
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 01:53
|
|
|
Hoo boy this thread is like lib bingo https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1230288442468241408?s=19
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:06
|
|
|
I feel a lot less bad about my posting rate knowing that out there there is a man apparently spending 24 hours a day tweeting about centrism.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
Yeah Shaun's lost it completely
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I feel a lot less bad about my posting rate knowing that out there there is a man apparently spending 24 hours a day tweeting about centrism. I literally don't think he sleeps. I think I'm just kinda embarrassed because I used to rate him.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:11
|
|
|
Its timefor me to fight the scots
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:12
|
|
|
I'm sure he used to get a lot more interaction too, I guess a lot of people have unsubbed or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:13
|
|
|
oh sorry i didn't answer your point - i don't think independence is going to be some crushing blow to nationalism as a political animus in scotland, nor do i think that the SNP are any more vulnerable to their inherent contradictions before independence than after. in fact my concern would be those problems getting worse, not better. essentially you would be entering a state where the ruling party is liberal and is extremely adept at muzzling the left with a conservative opposition party scoring about a third to half of the electorate- again, holyrood right now. i don't picture labour reanimating in that situation at all, especially since they'd go hardcore No again beforehand - there's a reason i say "dunbar democrats", i'm describing america junior.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:13
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1230281292148854786 Bill clinton (he fought the ra) Also uh, apparently jeremy corbyn is more responsible for the IRA than gerry adams???
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:15
|
|
|
Man I followed him for a spell and for the life of me I can't remember why.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:18
|
|
|
I genuinely remember him being quoted with some perfectly reasonable takes before the election but his brain seems to seriously have broken.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:19
|
|
|
As a Jewish labour member and Corbyn supporter he had some decent takes, but since december he... He has let cowardice consume him.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:20
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1230281292148854786 He's right that it took a lot of courage on the part of leaders to say "Actually you know what yes we will talk about this peacefully", and he's even right imo that the yanks deserve at least a degree of credit for working to get people to the table, but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh to the rest lmao OwlFancier posted:I genuinely remember him being quoted with some perfectly reasonable takes before the election but his brain seems to seriously have broken. Yeah I distinctly remember him being a decent enough sort and his takes being posted for the purposes of "Hey what do you guys think about this? Seems fairly on point."
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:33
|
|
|
Anyone who thinks Fidel loving Castro of all people was bad is beyond help imo 'Literally any use of physical force makes you evil, they should have just persuaded Batista he was wrong in fair debate, but also we were definitely Correct to invade Iraq because that was different'  Just a pathological inability to understand (or maybe take seriously) structural violence in an actually kinda dangerous way. Also lol at this https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1230289766249308160?s=19 Yes, obviously? Meeting a communist would be a rather enlightening experience for him I think, jeez. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 20, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:33
|
|
|
Ratjaculation posted:The entire world's only going to go right wing with the climate refugees guys. Don't worry about it, just get drunk and smash things I don't concede this as foregone, but even if it is, I'll never stop doing what little my poor broken self can do to try and make the world better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:34
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:Anyone who thinks Fidel loving Castro of all people was bad is beyond help imo I mean I'd be leery of it but not because I think it's wrong so much as I don't think it works in the long run, at least not reliably. But Cuba as far as I know has done pretty well by their revolution even accounting for the US being the US, so it seems like a weird example to pick at..? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Feb 20, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
Real life coinciding with Goon World: I have a little project on at the moment and it involves matching certain postcodes to MPs... I entered a postcode and the MP is JBrereton! Anyway, that's my story.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I mean I'd be leery of it but not because I think it's wrong so much as I don't think it works in the long run, at least not reliably. He's very clearly profoundly ignorant of the history and despite his pretensions neck-deep in capitalist ideology. Castro was an evil dictator because everyone knows he was. He's not thinking beyond that. Cuba is struggling and is extremely poor but that's down to the blockade, despite which it has an insanely high quality of life by comparison to similar income countries.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:He's very clearly profoundly ignorant of the history and despite his pretensions neck-deep in capitalist ideology. Castro was an evil dictator because everyone knows he was. He's not thinking beyond that. Well yeah that was my understanding too, in terms of making good with what you've got they're surely a model we could all learn from, especially looking at the future... As to why they've got so little I don't think that's castro's fault lol.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 02:45
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:Am I the only one to think the current obsession with Cummings is in fact Boris and his media chums setting up a nice little scapegoat for everything to keep Boris' hands clean (and very, very white) when all this poo poo falls apart in a year or so? You’re not alone and I went off on one about the puppetmaster Cummies shite on the last episode of the pod Ardennes posted:I don’t understand why Scottish politics would suddenly lurch to the right in that case, if anything Scottish Labour would gain a substantial left-wing SNP voters as the SNP fades from relevance. Scotland isn’t more left wing than the rUK though, the fact that the SNP is a neolib party is irrelevant in measuring the actual ideological bent of Scotland purely because they are a single issue party which allows those on the right to vote for them. There is no effective way at all to measure the ideological bent of the actively voting public in Scotland purely because of this. Before anyone pulls out a social attitudes survey or whatever, I’ll remind you that across the UK, labour policies are almost universally the most popular ones but that sure as poo poo doesn’t reflect the active voting population.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 05:39
|
|
|
I think Cummings is getting the headlines because he's the one formulating ideas and pushing to get them put into action, while Boris just lazes around going: "Sure, whatever."
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 06:41
|
|
|
There's definitely some of what we know to be cummings's dumb ideas in there but boris surely has his input too. But that's just how the cabinet normally works isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 06:43
|
|
|
Boris's actual ideas seem to mostly be "Build a big bridge" and "Build a big rail line". I mean there's worse impulses out there than infrastructure boondoggles, even though it siphons cash off to his think tank mates it's not actively harmful beyond that, and even a bad infrastructure project is still getting people into work for a bit if nothing else. Relatedly, what's going to be really interesting and telling will be when Sunak drops the budget in a few weeks; if he's half as much of a yes-man as is believed, it seems the PM will have pretty close to carte blanche and we'll see if he really does want to spend on anything big. e; As was said on the pod, basically, we need a hell of a lot more than anything they're going to give us, but crumbs are still crumbs, and would be better than the last loving decade. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Feb 20, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 07:13
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Before anyone pulls out a social attitudes survey or whatever, I’ll remind you that across the UK, labour policies are almost universally the most popular ones but that sure as poo poo doesn’t reflect the active voting population. The problem for Labour since the 1980s is not "are our individual policies popular relative to the Tory offering" but "do people trust us to pursue these policies in government"; it is why Kinnock struggled so much even after filing off the unilateral disarmament, withdrawal from Norn Iron, &c The non-voting skew does have an effect, but one can adjust for having voted in the past election; even amongst likely voters the truism of popular Labour planks but endemic Labour distrust is an enduring one
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 07:17
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Which is a weird choice on moral grounds given they're currently genociding the native population. It's okay. That's exactly what the Tories are trying to do in the UK to! At least the poor section of it anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 07:51
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:You’re not alone and I went off on one about the puppetmaster Cummies shite on the last episode of the pod Did you? poo poo, I thought I was up to date with it (and was waiting for the gasps of wonder at my original insight).
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 08:39
|
|
|
Okay, since it's close to the end of the month and nobody has proposed to Frances Weetman with a gummy worm ring on Twitter yet, I'm making an executive decision. Frances Weetman, as a columnist in as good standing as any of the other Independent brain fund, can be retweeted in this thread. Shaun Lawdad tweets, on the other hand, are now banned unless he has any interesting or entertaining specific outbursts that aren't the past 10 week extended meltdown of "499 reasons why Jeremy Corbyn shat in my pants: 1 - there is poo poo all over my pants".
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 09:07
|
|
|
I feel like that's basically like saying methadone is banned thomas you have to go back on the smack.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 09:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
That analogy works, but only because methadone is a longer lasting, far more drawn out, tepid, unfunny, version of diamorphine. Both of them are more like one of those rainforest drugs that make you think you're experiencing something profound and revelatory but you're actually just vomiting a lot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2020 09:16
|
|