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They rebalanced everything with this patch. It's good now.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:46
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Thanks!
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Feb 19, 2020 11:44
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Got around to setting up nuclear, but since nuclear appears to operate at max consumption any time it's on(?), I'll probably sideline it and make a massive fuel depot instead. Satisfactory needs some kind of accumulator equivalent to bank power; they already have batteries as a fuel source, so logistically they are most of the way there already.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:24
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abraxas posted:-snip- The point of automation is that you can do other stuff while the automated task is happening in the background. Sure, you can/could make reinforced plates faster by hand with a portable miner, but you can't convert iron bars into iron plates AND screws into reinforced plates as quickly. Every automated chain you set up multiplies the amount of things you make per second. One constructor makes plates slower than you can personally, but 4 miners feeding 12 smelters feeding 12 constructors feeding 4 assemblers can make waaaaay more stuff than you can possibly make by hand. The investment to get all those things built takes a while, but you very quickly break even in time saved and after a while you can basically draw infinite basic resources while also building more advanced stuff AND doing something else on a totally separate part of the map. Carcer fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 12:26
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abraxas posted:I haven't played this latest patch yet but I remember, after buying this game and playing it the last time, being extremely surprised and a bit annoyed with how slow automation felt, especially compared to just manually crafting the same stuff at your workbench. I guess I'm not playing the game right or I'm at least in the minority here because most of you guys seem to think the workbench should overheat/it shouldn't be as versatile/the player should have a cool down on crafting or whatever. I mean you speed up production through increasing the number of buildings and upgrading them. This is also an exploration game, although under development so some content is still missing. Exploring for slugs and hard drives can be done if production cannot be upgraded and you are waiting for something to finish.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:43
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You guys make fair points, and I'm not really trying to fault the game for this. I fully realize that it's mainly a problem with my impatience. I've explored a lot of the world, sometimes out of curiosity, sometimes out of necessity like trying to find oil or something. But then I come back to my main hub after an hour or two of exploring and like, 150 of the 1000 computers I need are done and I'm like "welp, gently caress this" and grab all the individual parts out of my production machines and cling-clang out the other 850 computers on my workbench in half the time it took my whole construction line to build the 150 it already had. Now if I had more patience I could just expand my machine park to accommodate all that and eventually have a big enough factory or production chain to (probably) not run into this problem again. But in my tiny lizard brain all I can think of is "WANT NEW TOYS, WANT THEM NOW!" so I just fall back to my ole workbenching. As I said, definitely a personal problem more so than a game problem. If what Fuzzy Mammal said is true that might help my impatience a bit now. I don't mind it being a BIT slower than crafting it manually, but it felt like there was TOO big a difference the last time I played it.
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Feb 19, 2020 13:05
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Just spend your downtime building go-kart tracks.
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Feb 19, 2020 13:06
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I also find this games pacing really annoying. I got stuck in situations where I really feel like I should expand my factory to produce those required parts in a reasonable timeframe, but I can't because it would endanger my power budget. Currently I am at the buildup for the second (last?) space elevator thing. I have just finished setting up all the oil wells on the map. And I fear that if I try to setup anything with remotely sane production my factory will overload the power new if my building material setup kicks up. You can't even check what the maximum power drain of your factory would be if it ran on full speed. Just like what happened to my while I was setting up my initial oil build. I had to turn off random parts of my factory to get the research for the oil generators done. Or I could try to scout out the last missing coal patch on the map, expecting that after an hour of fighting through a ring of uranium and fart trees there will be some impossible rock over it. Just like what happened at the first oil well I scouted.
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Feb 19, 2020 13:49
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VictualSquid posted:You can't even check what the maximum power drain of your factory would be if it ran on full speed. Just hook all your end products into the crusher sink.
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Feb 19, 2020 14:16
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This helped me
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Feb 19, 2020 14:24
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abraxas posted:You guys make fair points, and I'm not really trying to fault the game for this. I fully realize that it's mainly a problem with my impatience. I've explored a lot of the world, sometimes out of curiosity, sometimes out of necessity like trying to find oil or something. But then I come back to my main hub after an hour or two of exploring and like, 150 of the 1000 computers I need are done and I'm like "welp, gently caress this" and grab all the individual parts out of my production machines and cling-clang out the other 850 computers on my workbench in half the time it took my whole construction line to build the 150 it already had. Set up a bigger production line before you go exploring? Like how many constructors are you dedicating to each material?
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Feb 19, 2020 15:32
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euphronius posted:This helped me okay add more pumps always pumps got it
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Feb 19, 2020 15:35
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Just check to see if your pipes have the maximum flow you can output, if it’s coming up short, you either need to add a pump to the line where the short starts or whatever your feeding is sucking up more water than you can provide.
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Feb 19, 2020 15:56
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Yeah, I figured you could stack two or three pumps right at the harvester and be good, but it doesn't work that way. Since the oil pipe is ridiculously long, I'm going to have to run electricity alongside it to periodically apply pumps, it looks like. It's running parallel to some train tracks. It's a shame there's not a power-pole attachment for tracks that isn't a station. It seems wasteful to use stations as electricity connection points.
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Feb 19, 2020 16:44
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It finally made sense to me when I understood “head lift” to mean “the water will go up that high in this pipe”. You get 10m for “free” from the extractor I had never heard the term head lift before so it was a bit mysterious (There is also a horizontal flow issue over long distances I guess)
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Feb 19, 2020 16:46
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That's kind of why I dropped off the game. In order to make progress, you have to build these giant parallelized factories, when I just want to make a small, streamlined factory. It seems like a game where you can do whatever you want, but you pretty much have to build exactly the way the devs want you to.
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Feb 19, 2020 16:51
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Cojawfee posted:That's kind of why I dropped off the game. In order to make progress, you have to build these giant parallelized factories, when I just want to make a small, streamlined factory. It seems like a game where you can do whatever you want, but you pretty much have to build exactly the way the devs want you to. You can build a small factory with overclocking, but production limits do exist for each machine.
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Feb 19, 2020 16:59
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Oh man I Iearned you can mass deconstruct by holding control down while selecting things. I was feeling daunted to refactor a lot of stuff after unlocking mark 4 belts but this should make it much easier.
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Feb 19, 2020 17:36
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I had the same issue with the last patch. Everything just seemed really slow and up until getting coal i was like "what, you want me to manually load these 30 burners so i can run my megafactory? Please gently caress off". Its much better now.
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Feb 19, 2020 17:46
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Last night I was getting frustrated at the power supply issues I was having in my factory. I'd put up a new bank of coal plants only for the power to trip ten minutes later, leading to me making more fuel plants, and I was pretty sure I wasn't supposed to be running out of power that fast. Then I noticed that the two ends of my factory had two different numbers for power capacity  Long story short, a ~1m wire connection took me from constant power outages to ~2k MWH power surplus. Be careful how you pull out your biomass generators, kids!
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Feb 19, 2020 17:53
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I need to just throw down an extra storage unit on my lines when I’m out doing things. I’ll knowingly pass by production lines at 90% storage and think “I’ll be right back” and four hours later produced 79 motors and sat idle for 3:50.
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Feb 19, 2020 18:21
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You also need to be careful about power management, even if the machine is supplied with enough materials you can wind up jacking your own power supply and shutting everything down if you overclock too many high-energy machines. Easing back on that was what helped me.
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Feb 19, 2020 19:49
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How are you all going to handle nuclear and coal needing water after a brownout? Seems like there's two possible schemes: 1) Putting the extractor and pumps for the power plant on a totally separate power grid than the rest of the factory, so it can't trip, no matter what. Powered by one coal/nuclear plant among a bank of twenty-something plants. 2) Putting a big water storage tank uphill from the power plants, so that there's always enough water for a restart, assuming you don't have like five brownouts in a row. #1 would be a little silly for nuclear, but you could build a special nuclear plant just for it, that runs at like 5% power or something, so it has very little fuel rod consumption.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:07
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Speedball posted:You also need to be careful about power management, even if the machine is supplied with enough materials you can wind up jacking your own power supply and shutting everything down if you overclock too many high-energy machines. Easing back on that was what helped me. There's a lot to be said for underclocking too. A machine running at 50% rate uses less than 50% power. If you aren't supplying the full resources to a manufacturer to run with 100% uptime, turn it down - it'll save you a lot of power. Bobulus posted:How are you all going to handle nuclear and coal needing water after a brownout? Seems like there's two possible schemes:
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Feb 19, 2020 21:34
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Tenebrais posted:There's a lot to be said for underclocking too. A machine running at 50% rate uses less than 50% power. If you aren't supplying the full resources to a manufacturer to run with 100% uptime, turn it down - it'll save you a lot of power. Just to point out something that is non-obvious if you're not reading the patch notes, we now have the ability to type in the production rate of a machine. Either as a percentage or as an actual number of units per minute. So, yeah, no more fiddling with a slider bar that doesn't quite land where you want. If the downstream machine says it needs 2.34 units per minute, you can walk to the upstream machine and type in 2.34 and get exactly the output you need.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:46
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Bobulus posted:How are you all going to handle nuclear and coal needing water after a brownout? Seems like there's two possible schemes: If you get brownouts because your generators are out of fuel your real issue is that you built too many generators for your supply. The only time your power trips should be when you add too many new buildings and your max capacity can't keep up - and in these cases you just add a temporary burner ot two, disconnect the new production line and fire it back up because you still have all the fuel you need in the system (the HUB burners are nice for this, I keep them fueled but shut down for just these situations). With coal/fuel it's really easy to do as you can just dedicate some coal/oil spots solely to generators, but even with more complicated fuels like nuclear it's not too hard to ensure that you only build as many power plants as your fuel supply is guaranteed to cover.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:52
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fezball posted:If you get brownouts because your generators are out of fuel No, no, that's not what I'm talking about. Hypothetically, if everything is just hooked into a big power grid, including your water extractors and pumps, and you get a brownout for unrelated reasons (putting too many manufacturers online, for example), then what happens to your coal plant? If you're pumping the water uphill to get it to the plant, does the water drain back downhill when the power turns off? Will your coal plants be dry and thus unable to restart? I haven't tested this, but someone upthread was claiming that was the case, and so I was thinking about ways to avoid that, like a backup water supply or keeping the water supply on a separate grid that wouldn't be tripped.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:05
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Coal plants store up to 50 water and burn 45 a minute. If you flip the switch back on they'll function. Between Update 3 launch and Hotfix #1 (we're on Hotfix #3 now) there was an issue with water not being saved on session load or something, it was related to the extractors being bugged and it's why people had to rebuild them. So you would load in and anything that was connected to a water extractor would be bone dry.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:08
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Has anyone found a reference for the recipes added yesterday? I unlocked an iron ore + water one which I feel would need pretty specific circumstances to be useful. satisfactory-calculator.com seems to have a few but it's squirreled away in a lovely dropdown. I heard there's one to make steel without coal which sounds really nice. Even more than speed upgrades recipes that eliminate entire intermediates and simplify things are most useful imo.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:08
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Bobulus posted:Yeah, I figured you could stack two or three pumps right at the harvester and be good, but it doesn't work that way. Since the oil pipe is ridiculously long, I'm going to have to run electricity alongside it to periodically apply pumps, it looks like. Couldn't you transport fluids by train, thereby doing away with the pipeline altogether?
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Feb 19, 2020 22:11
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Synastren posted:Couldn't you transport fluids by train, thereby doing away with the pipeline altogether? Yeahhhhhh, but it's a pain. 500 m^3 per traincar (right?) vs 300 m^3/min in a pipe. So if your train takes five minutes to do one loop of the system, that's three freight cars to transport the same oil output. Plus I already set up the pipe when the system was set to 50 m^3 per freight car, before it was fixed. The traincar method would probably be cheaper, electricity-wise, with all the pumps I'm using. I will probably switch over at some point, maybe, probably.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:19
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Has anyone found a reference for the recipes added yesterday? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMw0y-i5aoAmsw2SLmIL-88ClzCc6nt2UqiLSGr2o6Q/edit#gid=0 seems to be up to date, the ones marked with "new" in the changes column.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:22
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Bobulus posted:Yeahhhhhh, but it's a pain. 500 m^3 per traincar (right?) vs 300 m^3/min in a pipe. So if your train takes five minutes to do one loop of the system, that's three freight cars to transport the same oil output. Plus I already set up the pipe when the system was set to 50 m^3 per freight car, before it was fixed. The train definitely scales up better though - If you want 400 m³/min you can just add another train car, but with the pipes you'd have to build another entire parallel pipeline. I accidentally discovered today that the eyedropper function works on the integrated track in the stations. It's technically different from ordinary rail track - it costs nothing (I think; at least it displays no cost while building), but you can't branch off it and can't dismantle it.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:33
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M_Gargantua posted:Post a screenshot? It should be just like laying any other belt, just vertical. Shouldn't matter how close to edges you are, the lift will snap. It works now, looks like it was just a screw up on my end. Thanks all. Bobulus posted:No, no, that's not what I'm talking about. Hypothetically, if everything is just hooked into a big power grid, including your water extractors and pumps, and you get a brownout for unrelated reasons (putting too many manufacturers online, for example), then what happens to your coal plant? If you're pumping the water uphill to get it to the plant, does the water drain back downhill when the power turns off? Will your coal plants be dry and thus unable to restart? I haven't tested this, but someone upthread was claiming that was the case, and so I was thinking about ways to avoid that, like a backup water supply or keeping the water supply on a separate grid that wouldn't be tripped. Honestly, I'm hoping that we get batteries, one way power gates, and logic circuits, like Factorio. For that matter, placeable, trippable breakers, so that only part of the factory shuts off instead of absolutely everything.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:27
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Also, they should fix priority splitting. That being broken with the addition of the coupon machine is miserable.
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Feb 20, 2020 16:46
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VictualSquid posted:Or I could try to scout out the last missing coal patch on the map, expecting that after an hour of fighting through a ring of uranium and fart trees there will be some impossible rock over it. Just like what happened at the first oil well I scouted. I'm pretty sure nobelisks can destroy those rocks, right?
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Feb 20, 2020 19:09
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Ambaire posted:I'm pretty sure nobelisks can destroy those rocks, right? Yup, if they're the spherical, cracked looking rocks, nobelisks will take care of them. Nobelisks will also destroy those weird "standing" bushes that emit gas after a second (but not the gas vents). So I did a bunch of exploring for hard drives and I got some pretty sweet alternate recipes. There are a bunch of new ones that make use of liquids, particularly water. The refinery can use water to refine ore or limestone into way more output than you normally could. I got one for "wet concrete" which was just "add water to limestone" and my concrete throughput tripled.
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Feb 20, 2020 19:24
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I scoffed at a lot of the new alternate recipes at first until I realized where my future bottlenecks will be. Like the iron plate + rubber = reinforced plate one. It’s got good output, but the important thing is that it burns my rubber up, something which in update 2 never mattered because the refinery wouldn’t turn off when full.
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Feb 20, 2020 19:33
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Speedball posted:Yup, if they're the spherical, cracked looking rocks, nobelisks will take care of them. Nobelisks will also destroy those weird "standing" bushes that emit gas after a second (but not the gas vents). Yeah if you're happy spending power and space on refineries & extractors some are really good. I'm dying to find the oil -> residue recipe. I cranked through 19 drives post-patch yesterday looking for it, lol. The way I figure I can run my entire oil setup ignoring fuel completely. Oil turns in to HOR and solid polymer. I can balance those outputs because there are two recipes with both (once I loving find it), just favouring one or the other in magnitude. Rubber and plastic (and fabric eventually, for automated cartridges) are made from the polymer, and the liquid residue is turned in to turbofuel with a bit of compacted coal. Eventually it will go in to coke I presume, and if I'm not consuming the polymer I can make a ghetto overflow splitter by chaining them a bunch so that if it's backed up 100% goes to the sink and otherwise only 1/8 or 1/16 is 'wasted'. If I put my turbofuel refineries along the HOR pipeline first before the other consumers I *think* they should be prioritized and keep my generators topped up. One thing that's annoying with the liquid readouts is it's hard to confirm the generators work like coal and biomass and scale down their input depending on load factor
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Feb 20, 2020 19:48
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I reinstalled to check out experimental and the changes are pretty drat nice and pipes are fun to work with. The one thing that annoys me though is when they mix divisions of odd and even numbers for inputs/outputs. Oh this machine takes in 60 steel a minute and puts out 15 steel beams? Well now the recipe for encased steel beams is in multiples of twelve because gently caress you. And the units of production a minute sometimes don't hit exactly the number you need. They'll be like 0.10 over/under. So I have to figure out how many more machines I need to be able to get the most efficiency out of the recipe and how much I need to over/underclock something to get the outputs matching up with the inputs which they don't. Argh.
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Feb 20, 2020 20:37
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