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Che Delilas posted:Feels like a toss-up to me. Same here. Guess I'll find out when I find out!
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Feb 11, 2020 17:45
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CPColin posted:My resume goes: I stumbled across our interns linked in the other day, he extended his internship by three months, then gave himself a years experience as a junior developer in my department We recently hired a guy who has three back to back six month stints, but prior to that he was at Amazon for two years, I think two of his six month stints were at the same company. We probably should have negotiated salary harder with him but turns out he's a solid engineer Everyone plays the dates game on their resume, we always like to get together and discuss what drama happened and how long the gaps really were. It's not a big deal especially in the first two years. If you have five years of jumping around every 2-9 months it's going to be hard to get anything beyond a junior position
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Feb 11, 2020 19:27
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Hadlock posted:... We probably should have negotiated salary harder with him... Why?
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Feb 11, 2020 19:48
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My background is in research and am currently in a role where I do both research and software engineering (officially I'm a software engineer though). I have a multi-page CV that has all my publication details, research projects, etc. However, I may find myself applying for roles that skew much more towards traditional software engineering in the near future. Is it worth my time to pare down my CV into a more traditional 1-2 page resume and should I summarize my ML research and focus more towards systems and products? To put it simply, if you were hiring for a standard C++ senior software engineer and got a 5 page CV, would you bother to skim past the first page/even look at it all?
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Feb 15, 2020 22:20
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Resumes and CVs are different documents, and submitting one where the other is requested is going to look mildly clueless at best. It might not be that bad, but it's certainly not ever going to help you.
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Feb 15, 2020 22:30
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I don't think it's unreasonable as an American to not know the difference between a resume and a CV, especially if you're not living in the northeast. I hadn't heard the term CV until I was probably 25
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Feb 15, 2020 22:51
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ultrafilter posted:Resumes and CVs are different documents, and submitting one where the other is requested is going to look mildly clueless at best. It might not be that bad, but it's certainly not ever going to help you. Yeah, I agree that they do serve pretty different purposes, but plenty of places I've looked at seem to be generically requesting either e.g. "Attach your resume/CV here." Is the right answer to kinda read the room and decide which one is more appropriate, or if they leave it open like that is it generally safe to default to CV? I guess I just don't trust that some of these postings aren't just using CV as a synonym for resume, but I also don't want to cut out a bunch of interesting stuff if they actually would have looked at it.
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Feb 15, 2020 23:15
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eelmonger posted:Yeah, I agree that they do serve pretty different purposes, but plenty of places I've looked at seem to be generically requesting either e.g. "Attach your resume/CV here." Is the right answer to kinda read the room and decide which one is more appropriate, or if they leave it open like that is it generally safe to default to CV? I guess I just don't trust that some of these postings aren't just using CV as a synonym for resume, but I also don't want to cut out a bunch of interesting stuff if they actually would have looked at it. Do you think it would help to create a 1-2 page resume and then explicitly note the CV is attached? Because I think employers would like to see the CV details, but only after initially reviewing the resume to determine if they should evaluate the candidate further. When I've reviewed candidates usually the first thing I'm trying to determine, as quickly as possible, is if the person goes into the yes, no, or maybe pile.
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Feb 16, 2020 02:09
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i think that's also a regional thing. i've never heard of anyone in my part of the globe drawing a distinction between resumes and cvs
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Feb 16, 2020 04:19
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eelmonger posted:Yeah, I agree that they do serve pretty different purposes, but plenty of places I've looked at seem to be generically requesting either e.g. "Attach your resume/CV here." Is the right answer to kinda read the room and decide which one is more appropriate, or if they leave it open like that is it generally safe to default to CV? I guess I just don't trust that some of these postings aren't just using CV as a synonym for resume, but I also don't want to cut out a bunch of interesting stuff if they actually would have looked at it. Most of the places you're looking at probably just think of "CV" as "weird European synonym for 'resume'" and don't appreciate the difference. In that case, just send them a resume. For a generic corporate job, I wouldn't go into full CV-level detail. Very few HR screeners or hiring managers will be able to pick out a prestige journal versus a sketchy publication mill, or recognize interesting recent papers that you've contributed to. They'll be overwhelmed and slightly weirded out by what looks like an over-long resume. Just drop a line somewhere that says something like "Full list of publications (CV) available on request." If you're applying to a place that has crossover with academia (say, Microsoft Research or one of Alphabet's research shops) then yeah, give them the full CV. redleader posted:i think that's also a regional thing. i've never heard of anyone in my part of the globe drawing a distinction between resumes and cvs Where is that? In the US, a resume is a short document with your education and last decade or so of work history, and a few high-level bullet points about what you did in each position. It's basically an executive summary of your recent career, and should be one page - maybe two for someone with substantial experience. It's standard for most corporate hiring. A CV (curriculum vitae) is specific to academia, and literally means "course of life" in Latin. It has every degree and academic honor you've earned, job/academic appointment you've held, publication you've authored, significant conference presentation you've given, and grant you've been awarded over the course of your career. Generally speaking, you can append new things to your CV, but old items never fall off or get edited out. Someone who's been working in academia for a few decades might have a ten page CV, and it'll still list merit scholarships they got in undergrad.
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Feb 16, 2020 05:57
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I've seen 100 page CVs for some professors.
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Feb 16, 2020 06:21
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Space Gopher posted:Where is that? new zealand. doing a bit of googling seems like cv/resume are used interchangeably in australiasia. presumably cv in the academic sense is important in academia, but if you're in that sort of environment i guess you'd be aware of the different expectations
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Feb 16, 2020 06:25
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I have a feeling that as I write this post it will end up more as an E/N rant than a career advice question, and if that’s the case just let me know and I’ll head over there instead. I’m halfway through my second year of pharmacy school and the stress of it is starting to ruin me. I don’t sleep, I’m losing weight like a motherfucker, and the mental issues that I’ve generally had under control for the past few years are starting to bubble up again. I think about dropping out often, almost every day at this point. Ideally, I won’t be doing that. If I did, though, I would at least make sure to secure a job first. The only thing I consider myself good at other than understanding how drugs work is programming. I’ve been coding in one way or another since I was in elementary school. My cousin introduced me to C# by showing me the source for Ultima Online’s server emulator and I figured out how to make basic custom items by copying attributes from ones that already existed. In high school I joined a technology program and took one semester each of C++ and C# (the last time I ever used either of those), as well as a year of Java. For undergrad I majored in Biomedical Sciences, but I took two classes on scientific computing in Python after testing out of their computer science prerequisites. Throughout undergrad and up until now I’ve mostly practiced Java, Python, and JavaScript. I somewhat know the popular web frameworks in each (at least how to make a REST API) and how to interact with SQL/Mongo databases. I’ve built things like small web apps, image/gif generators, and chat bots. There are two major issues I see with being able to get a job as a developer. First, I have almost nothing technology related I could put on a resume. I worked in IT at my school for 3 years, but it was all service desk type stuff. My major has nothing to do with tech, and I’ve never done anything like a coding bootcamp or whatever. Second, I have very little knowledge of the “computer sciencey” side of things. I couldn’t tell you poo poo about things like Big O Notation or sorting algorithms. The second problem is at least something I could try to teach myself, but I have no idea what to do about the lack of professional training/experience. Is there something I can do with what little spare time/money I have to remedy this? Or, is there some way I can leverage what I’ve self-taught myself to work around it? Sorry if this post doesn't really make as much sense as I'd hoped. I’m going through somewhat of an identity crisis at the moment and am trying to find any sort of way out if I end up needing it.
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Feb 16, 2020 07:26
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If you've had tech-related courses in university, that's something you can put on your resume even if your major as a whole wasn't in tech. If you've built personal tech projects, that's definitely something you can put on your resume. Especially web stuff that you can give someone a URL and have them go check it out for themselves. Tech is much more welcoming than many other disciplines to self-taught people without formal training. If you can show that you can put together a working solution when left to your own devices, chances are somebody is gonna want to hire you as a junior.
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Feb 16, 2020 08:04
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Space Gopher posted:Most of the places you're looking at probably just think of "CV" as "weird European synonym for 'resume'" and don't appreciate the difference. In that case, just send them a resume. Yeah, that was more or less my thought process and why I asked the question. So thanks for the confirmation. downout posted:Do you think it would help to create a 1-2 page resume and then explicitly note the CV is attached? Because I think employers would like to see the CV details, but only after initially reviewing the resume to determine if they should evaluate the candidate further. Based on the responses so far, that seems like the best bet: Put together a solid resume with a note that says the CV is available and send that out initially (or maybe together) unless it's clear that the place would actually be interested in the CV from the get go. Thanks for the advice everyone.
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Feb 16, 2020 08:24
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For what it's worth, in the UK what we call a CV is what Americans would call a resume. I think what Americans would call a CV we would call an academic CV.
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Feb 16, 2020 10:53
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i vomit kittens posted:I have a feeling that as I write this post it will end up more as an E/N rant than a career advice question, and if that’s the case just let me know and I’ll head over there instead. You could totally go the self taught route to get into programming. I did a bootcamp just because I needed more structure, but you sound like you're able to keep yourself on track for that. The only hurdle is you have to hustle a bit more for the first job, but once you've proven yourself, it doesn't matter as much. If you have projects on your resume, that's helpful. A lot of places will hire based on you passing some of their take homes/code writing puzzles so it's not really as big of a deal that you haven't worked at a place. You'll get binned immediately a bit more, but you aren't going to be shut out. Do you want to be a pharmacist as a career? I'd sit down and think of what is gonna make you happy long term. When someone is overwhelmed, they may make decisions they regret, so you don't want to drop pharmacy only to regret it years later. I personally was unhappy as an accountant and love being a programmer, but everyone's situation is unique. edit: Also I'm sorry you are feeling so awful and run down! It sucks and I hope you can find some time to recover soon
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Feb 16, 2020 17:12
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Self Taught is fine but you need good projects to demonstrate, when I look at resumes I need to see proof you can do the job. A degree is partway there, so without it you need that much more proof. You might also find that a developer-adjacent job might be a easier to fit into coming from a semi-developer background. I know they are chewed out somewhat in this thread, but you can make really good living in Software Support (though, avoid call center) or Q&A too. eelmonger posted:My background is in research and am currently in a role where I do both research and software engineering (officially I'm a software engineer though). I have a multi-page CV that has all my publication details, research projects, etc. However, I may find myself applying for roles that skew much more towards traditional software engineering in the near future. Is it worth my time to pare down my CV into a more traditional 1-2 page resume and should I summarize my ML research and focus more towards systems and products? You should make multiple 1-2 page resumes that are geared toward a couple different profiles. There's no law that says you need to have a definitive resume that has to match everywhere. Figure out the types of jobs you are interested in and then make cut/add as appropriate.
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Feb 17, 2020 00:31
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Lockback posted:You should make multiple 1-2 page resumes that are geared toward a couple different profiles. There's no law that says you need to have a definitive resume that has to match everywhere. Figure out the types of jobs you are interested in and then make cut/add as appropriate. Valid point. I've used cover letters for that in the past because  , but I also had much less experience to slice and dice and was just sending out my full CV everywhere.
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Feb 18, 2020 00:07
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good goons, looking for some advice here I've been applying for internships and the sort for a while now and things are being very slow, and an university colleague - who is well-employed and has some good years of experience - advised me to, his words, "skip that poo poo and go straight for full-time". Since I am older (almost 30) and have worked in a lot of different things, his opinion is that the benefit of the internship for tech jobs is more for the benefit of absolute greenhorns to learn about "how to work", like how to talk and deal with people, evaluate stuff, organization etc rather than the technical know-how, which isn't exactly gated back by experience. The reason I ask is that I got hired by a startup last october (started in november) but got dismissed after two weeks. They said I required more support than that they could offer at the moment, even though I went well in the interview and did well in the technical test. loving bummer, but that is the reality of startups, apparently. So I thought about taking a step back and try part-time entry levels or internships to see if I can get some consistent work to help me hone developer skills, but apparently those are being more difficult to get rather than full-time contract hires, lol Thanks in advance!
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Feb 20, 2020 19:31
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Your colleague is right about internships and the people at that startup are probably dumb assholes
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Feb 20, 2020 19:42
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If you have a technical degree then no, you should not be going after internships. A startup is a horrid place for a new grad unless they are absolutely ready to hit the ground running (and even then it'll probably still be horrid). Try applying to actual junior positions and see what feedback you get. You can also post your resume in the resume thread for advice. As always, make sure you have some real projects that you can intelligently speak to in your resume. Just a degree by itself is not enough.
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Feb 21, 2020 00:46
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rt4 posted:Your colleague is right about internships and the people at that startup are probably dumb assholes
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Feb 21, 2020 01:04
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rt4 posted:Your colleague is right about internships and the people at that startup are probably dumb assholes This a thousand times. We bring in interns where I work for 4 month stints. Basically they are the garbage receptacles for the work items/small projects that the rest of us a) don't have time to do, or b) don't want to do because it's scutwork. One of the only benefits the interns get at my workplace is that they actually are paid more than half the permanent full-time staff (we get around 50% of interns salary back through some program so they end up being cheaper than real staff).
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Feb 22, 2020 05:03
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dead gay comedy forums posted:The reason I ask is that I got hired by a startup last october (started in november) but got dismissed after two weeks. They said I required more support than that they could offer at the moment, even though I went well in the interview and did well in the technical test. Sounds like they had unrealistic ideas about what to expect from a new dev and probably did you a favour in the long run by letting you escape. Skip the internship, keep applying for junior roles and get your feet wet with a proper full-time job.
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Feb 25, 2020 03:44
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Colleges are poo poo garbage at getting developers up to speed on basic tools Probably should offer a semester long course on how to do branching/merging, cherry picking in git, how to write a user story, how to write a PR, how to write a Jira ticket, how to open/use/find&replace using vim, and then how to use pycharm/atom/vscode/sublime. Bonus points on getting them to containerize ("docker") their app. Oh and a crash course on 12 factor apps. And modern SDLC expectations. First three weeks of a brand new fresh out of school hire seems to be getting them up to speed on the above skills/tasks. Sick and tired of poo poo developers writing poo poo code and throwing it over the wall and expecting others to magically deploy it as production code.
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Feb 25, 2020 04:20
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What's a "PR" in this context?
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Feb 25, 2020 09:00
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ConanThe3rd posted:What's a "PR" in this context? Pull Request
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Feb 25, 2020 13:32
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Hadlock posted:Colleges are poo poo garbage at getting developers up to speed on basic tools This is always a disconnect between industry and education. College for the most part is teaching computer science. A branch of applied math. Who was it that said Computer Science has as much to do with computers as Astronomy does with telescopes?
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Feb 25, 2020 16:04
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Hughlander posted:This is always a disconnect between industry and education. College for the most part is teaching computer science. A branch of applied math. Who was it that said Computer Science has as much to do with computers as Astronomy does with telescopes? Dijkstra, but he was wrong. Computation is a physical process and as such the devices used to carry it out and their limitations are an essential object of study.
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Feb 25, 2020 16:08
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ultrafilter posted:Dijkstra, but he was wrong. Computation is a physical process and as such the devices used to carry it out and their limitations are an essential object of study. I don’t think this is a great argument for invalidating that Dijkstra quote. Learning about version control has jack-all to do with computing devices and theoretical limitations and is entirely tangential to learning about things like logic gates and computability theorems. That is not to suggest that VC isn’t valuable, of course it is, but whether or not it should be taught in a CS program is a never-ending argument on which I officially have no opinion.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:11
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Yeah I'm not going to jump deeper into this argument but colleges do have job prep resources outside of strict academia The fact that this guy got fired for not knowing how to software develop is kind of indicative of a cultural expectation that you be comfortable using the primary tools of your trade before you begin applying for jobs Maybe the school doesn't need to teach people what tools/how to use them, but if not then only accept students willing to study/use this stuff outside of strict study hours at the ivory tower I haven't written a blog post in a very long time but this is probably a good one to write about. I'm really really tired of explaining how to setup a github account, private keys etc to every new hire/intern I guess the things that really annoys me about all this is that you can totally write Twitter For Zombies in an afternoon and post it to github using rando toolset XYZ. That alone will get you 60% of the way towards understanding basic workflow and SDLC. The fact that you care so little about your career/education to not have done at least this before working t a real company is stunning. I do not hire anyone who does not have some demonstration project without at least two commits. Doesn't matter to me that you can write a binary sort in haskell if you can't be a functional contributing member of the team within two weeks of starting.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:34
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ultrafilter posted:Dijkstra, but he was wrong. Computation is a physical process and as such the devices used to carry it out and their limitations are an essential object of study. Yeah and chemistry is a fundamental part of cooking but they don't teach you about covalent bonding in catering school. I can't speak for other industries, but I've found with programming it really does pay off to just start with the normal day to day poo poo - a hello world application, something that calls an API, something that talks to a DB, then work your way into more and more specific detail from there about how the underlying fundamentals work. And as the other poster said, the non-programming part of programming: writing specs (one of the few things university does do), version control, task management, etc. I think this is why people are starting to gravitate toward bootcamps: because they focus on the actual real-world skills a developer needs to get a foot in the door. The rest can be learned throughout your career. The stuff you learn in computer science is useful to a very experienced developer working on highly technical and detailed projects, but I don't think it's that useful for a junior dev on his first day of work. putin is a cunt fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 22:06
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Yeah honestly, for a junior role, I would weight someone from a name brand bootcamp on equal footing with Billy from the state school and a comp sci degree A friend of mine was half seriously joking that they don't even interview junior developers who went through the effort to get a degree. All their most productive developers were self taught and only had partial formal education There probably exists that unicorn developer who was writing TF2 mods for their private server in middle school AND currently going to school for a 4 year degree but they already have three job offers waiting for them when they graduate Most shops hiring junior roles just need people to add features to their CRUD app in the shortest amount of time possible. With cloud compute it's cheaper to run bigger servers to run garbage code with features piled on, than hire someone with the skills to hash map the palindrome for a 3% boost speed on strings longer than 4096 char for your 140 char Twitter clone The number of holy code-monk jobs is pretty low, and certainly nobody's hiring juniors for it in 2020 unless you just rewrote redis as a multihreaded app, or wrote your own opinionated time series data base... In which case you probably already understand code editors and git (unless you're that dwarf fortress guy who's basically an idiot savant, that's for another thread though)
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Feb 25, 2020 22:29
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Hadlock posted:Yeah I'm not going to jump deeper into this argument but colleges do have job prep resources outside of strict academia What are you actually looking for in those demonstration projects? I don't really code for fun (which is probably a bad thing to admit to a prospective employer?) and most of the code I wrote is for my part-time job and isn't available publicly. The code I wrote at home is mostly just mini personal projects consisting of a couple of hundred lines of python code that just solves some very specific needs of mine that literally nobody else cares about. Should I just make those repositories public even if I don't actually apply for jobs using python or do I need to find some projects to do in a proper language?
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Feb 25, 2020 23:26
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Hadlock posted:Colleges are poo poo garbage at getting developers up to speed on basic tools Three weeks is absolutely nothing for getting up to speed on the processes and tools at a new company even for experienced hires, stop having unrealistic expectations.
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Feb 26, 2020 02:54
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No but you see I think universities should be vocational training specifically to prepare people for working at MY company, i really want to have that pool of trained workers without having to make any investment in training or professional development myself E: this will really benefit my strategy of working people to the bone until they burn out, then firing them and picking up another fresh grad instead
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Feb 26, 2020 07:29
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Eh, I am pretty big on the "CS degree is not vocational", but I still absolutely want people who go through it to have used at least one VCS, be comfortable with at least one editor and language and so on. I dgaf which ones, but trying to teach people why a VCS is good if they already have X years of enforced bad habits is really miserable.
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Feb 26, 2020 12:49
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it would be good to explore concepts of version control, containers, virtualization, etc. also using vim and linux extensively for interacting with school servers. what do i know tho.
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Feb 26, 2020 13:56
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Hadlock posted:I'm really really tired of explaining how to setup a github account, private keys etc to every new hire/intern This sounds like stuff that should just go into a checklist of "here's how to set up your network account/vpn account/dev environment/etc" things that every new hire/intern/whatever should be given as a part of an onboarding process
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Feb 26, 2020 14:26
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