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Fojar38 posted:Dude, you're claiming that this pre-modern earthquake killed 4 times more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki getting loving nuked did You want on to die on this loving hill? China had 125 million people when that earthquake happened. I'm sorry china#1 is suddenly news to you. Hey if you think its wrong theres a very lucrative and prestigious route you could take by proving every estimate of china population wrong.
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Feb 21, 2020 01:42
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Judging by his title, he dies on a lot of hills.
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Feb 21, 2020 01:44
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Fojar38 posted:Dude, you're claiming that this pre-modern earthquake killed 4 times more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki getting loving nuked did A couple of burst dams, cholera, a period of warlordism and the ensuing famine, why not?
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Feb 21, 2020 01:55
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Despera posted:You want on to die on this loving hill? China had 125 million people when that earthquake happened. I'm sorry china#1 is suddenly news to you. Hey if you think its wrong theres a very lucrative and prestigious route you could take by proving every estimate of china population wrong. Actually he's talking about people dying in the side of that loving hill.
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Feb 21, 2020 02:11
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MarcusSA posted:Wtf y’all even arguing about? People haven't gotten Despera's gimmick is pretending to be incredibly dumb.
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Feb 21, 2020 02:26
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yaffle posted:A couple of burst dams, cholera, a period of warlordism and the ensuing famine, why not? Chinese records are attributing the deaths all to the earthquake itself.
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Feb 21, 2020 02:36
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Grand Fromage posted:People haven't gotten Despera's gimmick is pretending to be incredibly dumb. if not believing fojar makes me dumb guess a lot of loving people are loving dumb
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Feb 21, 2020 02:40
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Hey I'm not the one who is believing things here.
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Feb 21, 2020 02:41
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You can't believe a thing China says, in fact there are probably only 10 people in the whole 'country'!
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Feb 21, 2020 02:41
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Fojar38 posted:Hey I'm not the one who is believing things here. no i believe historians not "dude thats like 5 hiroshimas'
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Feb 21, 2020 02:43
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MarcusSA posted:Wtf y’all even arguing about? Some idiot is trying to poo poo up the thread and goons just keep biting
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Feb 21, 2020 02:44
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Also yeah the song dynasty had about 75 million people where the byzantine had about 12. These countries had censuses you know Despera fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 02:49
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Nobody was talking about the Byzantines.
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Feb 21, 2020 03:03
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I dont get why you are trying to undersell Chinese history. CCP like = must be bad cant apply to everything. It is the story of a quarter to a third of the worlds population. Chinese history is fascinating and vast full of conflicts that dwarf anything in the western world. https://www.amazon.com/China-History-John-Keay/dp/0465025188 Would recommend.
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Feb 21, 2020 03:49
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Fojar38 posted:Nobody was talking about the Byzantines. Which is a drat shame if you ask me.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:10
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Despera posted:I dont get why you are trying to undersell Chinese history. CCP like = must be bad cant apply to everything. It is the story of a quarter to a third of the worlds population. Chinese history is fascinating and vast full of conflicts that dwarf anything in the western world. I'm not trying to undersell it, I am trying to dispel the notion of Chinese exceptionalism that is the driving force behind the "5000 years of history, China is historically the biggest and best" narrative, that incidentally is part of the core nationalist tenets that the CCP uses to justify its rule.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:15
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If Shaanxi's a rockin' then don't come a knockin'
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Feb 21, 2020 04:42
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Yeah we all know it's BS. While large and interesting, China still sucks. So to move on to relevant news some business leaders are speaking out against the draconian measures being used to fight the spread of Covid19. quote:Business leaders and economists in China are increasingly saying, Enough. While China must stop the outbreak, they argue, some of its methods are hurting the lives and livelihoods of millions of people while contributing little to the containment effort.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:51
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BrigadierSensible posted:On this: when I was in China I studiously avoided any sort of political, or even political adjacent chat. So can I ask goons with Mainland Chinese relatives, or who were Surely you must have noticed that throwing a temper tantrum is the default response to anything unexpected
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Feb 21, 2020 06:12
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Squalid posted:The oldest extant example of a Chinese arch bridge dates from the beginning of the 7th century, and is located in Hebei. that's a nice bridge
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Feb 21, 2020 07:50
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Fojar38 posted:A single earthquake in the early modern period killing as many people as Operation Overlord passes your smell test huh?  Edit: Lol, I'm far too late or that discussion and missed the cave thing Nektu fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 08:05
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This reminds me a lot of using archaeology to explore portions of Christian history and finding out the breath of their persecution by the Romans was unsupported by physical evidence. The millions of dead would certainly be a mountain of physical evidence if you wanted to go looking. Maybe someone already has?
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Feb 21, 2020 08:22
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The Chinese historical army numbers is more a problem of logistics. The population of the country can be enormous, but that doesn't change the fact that it becomes incredibly difficult to supply more than a hundred thousand men in the field with just beasts of burden and boats running on manpower or sail. Now the Chinese had excellent roads and canals, but the Romans had great roads as well and the Mediterranean sea which was a huge force multiplier as it's a very calm body of water that allows easy transport of men and supplies all over the Empire and the Romans rarely if ever had more than 80 thousand men in one place, unless it was two armies fighting each other in a civil war. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 08:26
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Charlz Guybon posted:the Romans rarely if ever had more than 80 thousand men in one place, unless it was two armies fighting each other in a civil war.  How do you know that, you weren't there!
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Feb 21, 2020 09:30
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guys I think I might be having a seizure I remember almost this exact same conversation happening here before, probably more than twice.
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Feb 21, 2020 10:03
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I think we're supposed to talk about how awesome US warships are for the next 10 pages now, though.
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Feb 21, 2020 10:05
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BrainDance posted:I think we're supposed to talk about how awesome US warships are for the next 10 pages now, though. you mean the modern ones that are falling apart or the old ones? because..
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Feb 21, 2020 10:12
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BrainDance posted:I think we're supposed to talk about how awesome US warships are for the next 10 pages now, though. I am sorry, but Type 055 is the most beautiful ship ever put to sea. Unnamed navy can only salivate.
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Feb 21, 2020 10:14
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Shaocaholica posted:Why do white people put half a bottle of soy sauce on their already seasoned Chinese food? It’s not like white people food/palate is all that salty. If anything it’s less salty than baseline Chinese food. I was at a hibachi place once, and there was a very fit couple in their late 20s sitting with us. They asked the chef to fill their 3 ramekins with the hibachi mayo (rather than having any soy sauce), then had him put additional hibachi mayo on all the preliminary course stuff they ordered. They had to leave early, so they got to-go boxes for their main courses, and they had the chef cover their food to the point that mayo completely filled the remaining available space in each to-go box -- at least a cup/250 ml, probably more. In conclusion, I have no idea why anybody does anything.
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Feb 21, 2020 10:45
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BrainDance posted:I think we're supposed to talk about how awesome US warships are for the next 10 pages now, though.  This nice ship, but where are cats? Cats? For rats. ...We don't have any rats.Though, having seen pictures of how well Russian warships are (not) maintained, the story being true would not surprise me.
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Feb 21, 2020 10:47
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Y'all remember when the country of Europe got all uppity about being the best country so China invented the black plague to put them back in their place?
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Feb 21, 2020 14:37
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I put a single packet soy sauce into my leftover rice. gently caress it was gross. Had to either toss it or turn it into porridge to avoid wasting food. There is no god. Also, what part of China has the most and least saltiest food?
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Feb 21, 2020 17:11
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WTF is China anyway?
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Feb 21, 2020 18:41
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serious norman posted:WTF is China anyway? where is that picture of the guy towing that pig w huge balls
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Feb 21, 2020 18:45
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serious norman posted:WTF is China anyway? A land of contrasts. We've been through this.
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Feb 21, 2020 18:45
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Atopian posted:A land of contrasts. We've been through this. I tried to scrute it, but it was not possible.
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Feb 21, 2020 19:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GndAiU2qoDI
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Feb 21, 2020 19:05
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Fojar38 posted:Dude, you're claiming that this pre-modern earthquake killed 4 times more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki getting loving nuked did The area of effect of an earthquake is significantly larger than that of a couple early fission devices that only partially detonated. I have no idea whether the casualty numbers are accurate there, but could a massive earthquake in those times kill that many people? Easily. In 2003 a magnitude 6.6 earthquake (aka pussy poo poo, basically) killed 31,000 people in Iran. The 2010 Haiti earthquake was only a 7.0 and still killed between 200,000 and 300,000 people. The 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake released 100 GIGAtons of energy, whereas Fat Man and Little Boy were between 12 and 23 KILOtons. The difference between those two is so massive they aren't even in the same ballpark, as ONE gigaton equals 1,000,000 kilotons. In short, earthquakes can release enough energy to make a nuclear bomb look like a loving FART Thinking that an earthquake is by nature less devastating than a nuclear bomb is foolish as all gently caress, and this is why people have some problems with your posting when it goes too far into the area of hating China and doubting everything about it even when it's not rational.
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Feb 21, 2020 19:46
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All of those examples involve modern high-density urban areas being struck directly by high magnitude earthquakes, and the Haiti earthquake's figures are estimated to be about 160,000 casualties in fact, and that was with the epicenter in the middle of an urban area comprising roughly 3 million people. So this earthquake hitting a pre-modern society with its epicenter in a relatively unpopulated area somehow caused 7-8 times the casualties? I know that earthquakes can be insanely powerful, I'm not an idiot. And there was definitely a really loving big earthquake in China on the date in question, its size being corroborated by geological evidence and alternate sources from the imperial record acknowledging it. But the meat of the argument was "It caused 830,000 casualties, therefore there must have been a Detroit in the walls" and that is extremely suspect on its very face, unless you believe that the Ming Dynasty was comprised partially by the Dwarves of Middle Earth.
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Feb 21, 2020 21:38
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Fojar38 posted:All of those examples involve modern high-density urban areas being struck directly by high magnitude earthquakes, and the Haiti earthquake's figures are estimated to be about 160,000 casualties in fact, and that was with the epicenter in the middle of an urban area comprising roughly 3 million people. An earthquake of that size killing that many people in China at that period of time is absolutely plausible. I feel like you're getting a bit hung up on the whole cave thing, which I'm sure was only some fraction of the total effect. This was 1556, not prehistory. China was a very populous place at that time, and this earthquake was 33 times more powerful than the one in Haiti. And for your concept to make sense, internal Chinese records would need to be purposefully fudged (for what? why? why would the government record MORE deaths than actually took place in a natural disaster? Just to try and fool smart guys like you 500 years after the fact?) At the end of the day it was a large earthquake taking place in a very populous country where a huge amount of people would be vulnerable to the collapse of buildings, caves and mountainsides and where the effects would be felt (to some extent) across the entire country, I just don't see where you're going with this. In succession now you've argued that ancient China wasn't wealthy, didn't actually have that many people, and certainly INFLATED the death number for an earthquake I just feel like you're going a bit hard atm
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Feb 21, 2020 21:51
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