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Arthil posted:With the right group, I actually prefer to ask/be asked a simple thing they want to do and then the outcome is described after the roll. Right, that's true. I should clarify and say I agree with this.
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Feb 21, 2020 01:57
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I'm playing in my first 5e campaign ever, so I don't have a lot to compare this too, but I'm finding combat seems to be on steroids. I'm playing a Hexblade and am level 8 (our party is all 7th-8th level). Granted I spec'd out pretty hard into a melee focused damager with a Glaive pact weapon and PAM feat, but I'm also reasonably defensive with half plate +2 dex AC and a ring of protection (AC 18). All that being said, It seems like all the enemies we come up against have like +7 to hit, multiple attacks, and put out some really high damage numbers. My current HP pool with False Life up is 67, and on many occasions it get's depleted in a round or two against the enemies we face. I think it's a bit worse due to our part having very little in terms of a front line (just myself and a monk as the melee combatants). Adding to this, the enemies seem to be massive sacks of HP, and so even though I know I'm a bit min/maxed from a damage perspective, working through all their HP seems like a slog every combat. The overall feel for me is that melee is a very unsafe place to be, whereas our spell slingers / archer in the back are pretty safe in a lot of situations. Is this type of situation normal in people's experience? What I'm finding is that although I'm enjoying the campaign, I'm finding my character less and less enjoyable to play because he gets smacked around so easily. I really wanted to multi in bard for thematic reasons and for fun, but am now thinking I'm going to have to do a more tanky class just to try and survive.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:30
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PotatoManJack posted:Is this type of situation normal in people's experience? Yes, and you went too deep into warlock. Just being hexblade isn't enough to get you to be a front liner and a dip into a melee class probably won't get you there, either.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:38
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Talk with your DM about making some adjustments to what you've picked out, that you maybe didn't understand that going deep into Warlock was a poor choice for being a frontliner. My Saturday DM has been relatively open to letting people rebuild, although he's said he would need to consider it a little more now that we're Level 11. But previously three of the five party members completely changed their class. Personally I'm of the opinion to let a player switch things out if it's just not working with their character concept. A fun example I have is from Matt Colville's The Chain, where a character named Boots started out as a Swashbuckler Rogue. But Matt let him switch entirely to Swords Bard, and an amusing joke was "What do you mean? Boots was always a Bard!" His belief is that the classes are just there to represent his player's characters, and if their class no longer feels like it represents the character, he doesn't find it to be his place to tell them no. For your specific situation. Probably 2 Hexblade and the rest Paladin would work quite well, with optional dips into Sorcerer or Bard later. You'll be much more sturdy for the frontline, and if it's the fantasy of playing an instrument/music/art from the Bard you like. Why can't that still be used but for a Paladin? Arthil fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 04:47
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To be more clear on the math, a group of 5 level 8s should have 2 CR6s as a medium-ish encounter, if memory serves, and your quote about +7 to hit is about right for that. So, a CR6 is going to average around 22.5HP per round of damage against a 18 AC, which means that 3 rounds of 1 of them focusing you or 1.5 rounds of both of them focusing you will wipe out that 67 HP, pretty regularly. If your casters can toss you any buffs, that would help a little, but not a ton. You'd probably get to 4 rounds solo, or 2 rounds of both, which isn't much different. The enemies will also have ~100-125 HP at that point, so if your party isn't coughing up at least 60-70 HP per round, you are gonna have a bad time. If nothing else, the system kinda expects you to have +1 Armor by this point, so talk to your DM about that.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:53
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Thanks for the replies. When I started the character, I wasn't really planning to be a tank, but the way the party has formed we just don't have any tanky melee classes as our fighter ended up going archer path, so I've ended up as the frontliner together with a monk who also gets smashed on a regular basis. As for magic items, they have been very sparse and it's supposed to be a low magic world if that makes any difference. I will chat to the DM about things though, that sounds like a good place to start.
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Feb 21, 2020 05:37
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PotatoManJack posted:As for magic items, they have been very sparse and it's supposed to be a low magic world if that makes any difference. This is cool in theory, but unsupported by the system in practice. If your DM wants to keep a low magic flavor then just suggest you get some Carbon-Scored Steel Half-Plate or whatever that is just regular half-plate with +1AC. They system is balanced around those AC increases (and the same on the weapon side, +X Weapon progression is expected).
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Feb 21, 2020 05:46
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Yeah denying your players some increase to their weapons and armor just for "low magic" makes little sense when you can reflavor the mechanic as the items just being of a better make.
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Feb 21, 2020 06:00
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PotatoManJack posted:Thanks for the replies. When I started the character, I wasn't really planning to be a tank, but the way the party has formed we just don't have any tanky melee classes as our fighter ended up going archer path, so I've ended up as the frontliner together with a monk who also gets smashed on a regular basis. PotatoManJack posted:(our party is all 7th-8th level). Get real excited about taking ascendant step at 9th level. Talk about how cool it will be to hover just above the heads of the other party members and stab anything that comes close as a solution to your squishy tank problems. Just when the DM is getting really, really stressed out by every battlefield becoming a 3d adjudication nightmare, say "...or you could just drop me some +1 half plate"
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Feb 21, 2020 09:26
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E: nevermind
Splicer fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 09:33
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PotatoManJack posted:Thanks for the replies. When I started the character, I wasn't really planning to be a tank, but the way the party has formed we just don't have any tanky melee classes as our fighter ended up going archer path, so I've ended up as the frontliner together with a monk who also gets smashed on a regular basis. Yeah, Hexblade isn't really a frontliner, you don't have the AC or HP for it, you're more of an opportunistic melee attacker with spells to round out your toolkit. The Monk is sturdier, but also kind of wasted standing toe to toe with enemies and duking it out when the class is all about mobility. You can talk to the DM and ask to respec into something tankier, but you could also discuss tactics with your fellow players. I think part of the problem is you've taken a traditional frontline-backline approach to combat that doesn't actually mesh with your party composition. It's doable, if tricky, to have a party with no dedicated frontline, but you'd need to go into combats with the idea that everyone is trying to evade, kite and CC enemies, and everyone eats the occasional hit. Could make for some pretty interesting fights, actually. Edit: One thing to talk to your DM about, though... You mentioned that the ranged characters end up almost never taking damage. That shouldn't be happening. Part of the DM's job in combat is putting a bit of pressure on the PCs that don't want to be in the thick of it. Guildencrantz fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 09:51
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What's your current evocation and cantrip setup? e: is your glaive for backstory/character reasons or just for PAM? Splicer fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 10:00
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In the interest of streamlining the whole magic item acquisition process, I'm considering giving my players an Enchantment Bonus equal to half their proficiency, rounded down, that applies to all their arms and armor. So once the party hits level 9, which they will soon, they'll have a proficiency bonus of +4 and therefore an enchantment bonus of +2, which means any armor, weapon, or shield they use will be treated as a +2 item. The idea is to reduce the workload for me the DM in deciding how much loot they'll have and when they should get it. It's been said a few times in this thread that magic weapons and armor are not really optional and kind of an essential part of character progression, so I figured it'd be simpler and more honest if I turned it into a parameter explicitly tied to character level. Another goal is so players don't feel like they need to choose between boring but useful magic equipment or fun magic doodads, and for the doodads they pick up to feel more unique and exciting. This probably benefits shield users the most, since they'll have both a +2 armor and a +2 shield, and I guess I'd allow casters the benefit of the corresponding Wand of the War Mage, for the sake of parity. And if the party is too powerful in the short term, I'll just beef up the encounters to compensate, which I guess just reduces it into the illusion of progression. Does this all seem sane, or is there something half-baked I'm missing?
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Feb 21, 2020 11:56
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4E Dark Sun was indeed good. It will mean everyone starts with +1 equipment so you might want to have it kick in at level 3 - 5 or making it a base 0 that increases every time you gain proficiency, like those weird artificer abilities. Or go with 5/11/16 as the break points, same as the cantrip level ups and fighter extra attacks. If someone gets a +2 weapon while still at +1 innate give them the higher of the two.
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Feb 21, 2020 12:20
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Zombies equipped with Ring Mail and a shield are hilariously hard to kill (and cheap!), a must-have for any necromancer's army. You can even fit a couple of them in a Bag of Holding for rapid deployment! After my players have befriended a nothic and recruited a harpy into the group I'm starting to get nervous about what they'll try to hire/marry/bribe next. But they seem to like how not everything fights to the death pointlessly so who am I to judge? They can try talking to some neogi next.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:13
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I'm on my phone, so I may have missed it, but if it's you and the monk in melee, how many are ranged? I've never seen parties with more ranged than melee, or even equal range to melee, function in d&d. But 2/2 is different from 2/3 which is way different from 2/4.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:54
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After reading the Kensei chat a few pages back, I'm between talking that (and a 1d8 longsword) or Long Death now that my monk just hit 3. I end up as the main melee fighter a lot so soaking temp hp on kills sounds nice, but so does the occasional AC boost if I think I'm about to get whacked next round. The longer term stuff that Kensei gets definitely seems better, but it's harder to worry about that at level 3. Suggestions?
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Feb 21, 2020 16:05
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I would argue the opposite, that longer term the ability to Not Fall is much more useful than an ability that is made redundant by having a magic item. From what I can tell magic items are not restricted from any of the earlier kensei abilities so the 11th level ability is pretty wasted on that path, whereas for Long Death it's the most pivotal ability they get.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:25
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Weird note on Sharpen the Blade, actually: unless it's been errata'd, can you use it on a magic weapon that doesn't have a regular +X hit/damage bonus? Because unlike prior editions, that's a Thing in 5E. A Flametongue, for example, does 2d6 extra fire damage when it's turned on, but has no to-hit or (normal) damage bonus. Sharpen's wording is kind of clear as mud on that.
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Feb 21, 2020 18:04
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I've always considered it to only check for your standard +1s and +2s and the like, but I could see the fire damage being considered a bonus to damage rolls.
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Feb 21, 2020 18:23
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Weird note on Sharpen the Blade, actually: unless it's been errata'd, can you use it on a magic weapon that doesn't have a regular +X hit/damage bonus? As always, Crawford is a hack and use his tweets at your own discretion, but: https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/944274737147949056
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Feb 21, 2020 18:31
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vlad3217 posted:After reading the Kensei chat a few pages back, I'm between talking that (and a 1d8 longsword) or Long Death now that my monk just hit 3. I end up as the main melee fighter a lot so soaking temp hp on kills sounds nice, but so does the occasional AC boost if I think I'm about to get whacked next round. The longer term stuff that Kensei gets definitely seems better, but it's harder to worry about that at level 3. Suggestions? I posted the mathematical breakdown of kensei a page or so ago, on balance it's probably less powerful than other options but you get to play with cool toys. I'm trying to get my dm to let me reskin a whip as a rope dart / meteor hammer, take that as my level 6 kensei weapon if I live that long.
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Feb 21, 2020 18:37
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Toshimo posted:As always, Crawford is a hack and use his tweets at your own discretion, but: Wow this may be the first one of these I've agreed with
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Feb 21, 2020 18:48
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Toshimo posted:To be more clear on the math, a group of 5 level 8s should have 2 CR6s as a medium-ish encounter
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Feb 21, 2020 19:04
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Honestly just let it be used on a weapon and just not let it stack? Like you can Sharpen the Blade on a +1 sword but it just brings it up to be +3. It's not like that's going to break the game.
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Feb 21, 2020 19:04
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Syrinxx posted:Is there an idiot's guide to this somewhere? I get that a single <CR> monster is supposed to align to a party of 5 <CR> level adventurers but it gets murky after you start adding creatures. Do we still have "multiple enemies should be budgeted as having higher xp values because the action economy makes them more difficult, but also don't give the players any extra xp for a more difficult encounter" or did that get fixed?
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Feb 21, 2020 21:45
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Syrinxx posted:Is there an idiot's guide to this somewhere? I think that most of us here would say that Crawford himself is an idiot's guide - he's certainly had enough practice.
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Feb 21, 2020 23:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I posted the mathematical breakdown of kensei a page or so ago, on balance it's probably less powerful than other options but you get to play with cool toys. Yeah I read through that but wasn't sure how different it might be at a lower level. It does seem like much more of the cool toys choice rather than the survivability focused choice.
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Feb 21, 2020 23:18
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e: Misread the question.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:01
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vlad3217 posted:Yeah I read through that but wasn't sure how different it might be at a lower level. It does seem like much more of the cool toys choice rather than the survivability focused choice. Yeah. My general read on the Monk subclasses is that Open Hand is probably the best overall because you're taking what monks are supposed to be good at -- mobile striker -- and making it extra strong. Kensei the main advantage is you're doubling or tripling the potential pool of useful magic items you could find, just because there are relatively few useful Monk items period, and the list of magic swords with +0 bonuses but neat effects like flametongue or dancing or defender (technically, +0/+0 when its bonus is used for AC!) is actually fairly long. The secondary bonus is you get versatility -- either a non trivial damage boost, or a non trivial AC boost, your choice when you want it. plus you get a strong ranged option right at level 3 with the longbow, which is great if you are an aarakocra, as you should be.
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Feb 22, 2020 01:02
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I would agree that insofar as Monk itself is fine, Open Hand and Kensei are fine. The entire class feels weird and sloppily designed in almost every edition, to be honest. It's the martial that would benefit most, thematically, from working exactly like a Wizard, with a big pool of special moves you can use a limited number of times a day, gated by level access and potentially learned by reading scrolls found in dungeons and poo poo. So I guess 4E came the closest to getting it right, but I didn't even like the 4E Monk much.
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Feb 22, 2020 01:36
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Monk, but instead of magical kung fu powers, you hang out in a monastary brewing beer and transcribing manuscripts. Sometimes you draw dicks in the margins.
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Feb 22, 2020 02:06
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Monk, but instead of magical kung fu powers, you hang out in a monastary brewing beer and transcribing manuscripts. Sometimes you draw dicks in the margins. it's amazing none of the smartasses I've played with have ever said "I'm making a monk" and then turned up playing a cleric with a tonsure
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Feb 22, 2020 02:18
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Monk, but instead of magical kung-fu powers you're a big fat angry tonsure'd dude who punches gently caress out of wrongdoers.
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Feb 22, 2020 02:22
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I'm going to do the "play a monk who's actually just a refluffed barbarian" idea that was suggested in this thread a few months back in an upcoming game.
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Feb 22, 2020 02:41
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W.T. Fits posted:I'm going to do the "play a monk who's actually just a refluffed barbarian" idea that was suggested in this thread a few months back in an upcoming game. So Mozgus from Berserk? Reskin a maul into a big rear end bible.
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Feb 22, 2020 04:55
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Kung Food posted:So Mozgus from Berserk? Reskin a maul into a big rear end bible. Never seen Berserk so I have no idea who that is. But I was basically thinking something along the lines of a sohei. Acolyte background, Zealot subclass, Polearm Mastery from going Variant Human.
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Feb 22, 2020 05:04
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I would agree that insofar as Monk itself is fine, Open Hand and Kensei are fine. The entire class feels weird and sloppily designed in almost every edition, to be honest. It's the martial that would benefit most, thematically, from working exactly like a Wizard, with a big pool of special moves you can use a limited number of times a day, gated by level access and potentially learned by reading scrolls found in dungeons and poo poo. 3e’s Tome of Battle came even closer to getting it right of course. There’s the structure there for secret techniques learned from ancient scrolls but 3e did not have the chin to hold things out of players’ hands like that.
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Feb 22, 2020 05:14
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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:Monk, but instead of magical kung-fu powers you're a big fat angry tonsure'd dude who punches gently caress out of wrongdoers. Back when I was a kid playing 1e, I was totally unaware of Wuxia as a genre or eastern monasticism generally and assumed the monk class was based on Friar Tuck, the only monk I knew. I couldn't quite grasp what the connection between monks and unarmed combat was but assumed it was some part of the Robin Hood story I wasn't familiar with. I really do need to put in some drunken master monks who sell caffeinated wine into my next campaign.
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Feb 22, 2020 09:26
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:03 |
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Hey, so - what price/rarity would GMs reading this thread assign to Potions of Short Rest and/or Potions of Long Rest? I handed out a small stack at the beginning of this dungeon because there's a strong time pressure component, but we're arriving at the end of the dungeon and going to be getting back to a market soon, and they still have a few of each, and I *know* my players are going to want to put a gold value on these. I can't find a magical item already existing in the system that does something similar for a price/rarity comparison, but maybe I derped out and missed one?
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Feb 22, 2020 09:38
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