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Fuligin posted:Dungeon Siege owned, and i wish arpgs had followed more in its vein instead of all turning into frictionless number crunch skinner boxes I just remember it being insanely dull
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Feb 23, 2020 07:36
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The Dungeon Siege games are a couple of bucks on Fanatical at the moment. I had the first two back in the day, but never got around to finishing them. Picked up 2 after the talk about it last page, and it's a trip down memory lane. Thanks! 
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Feb 23, 2020 07:41
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Champions: Return to Arms is still the best ARPG Especially if you play Shadow Knight and puke on everyone
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Feb 23, 2020 08:55
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fappenmeister posted:The Dungeon Siege games are a couple of bucks on Fanatical at the moment. I had the first two back in the day, but never got around to finishing them. Picked up 2 after the talk about it last page, and it's a trip down memory lane. Thanks! 1 was good, 2 was OK. We'll just forget they even made a 3. Youtube has videos on exactly why 3 was such a shitshow. All political if I recall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmGhIRqq4VQ OgNar fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 08:58
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Does dungeon seige 2 work decently on A: windows 10, and B: at 2560x1440 resolution?
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Feb 23, 2020 09:01
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Zereth posted:Does dungeon seige 2 work decently on A: windows 10, and B: at 2560x1440 resolution? I needed this guys files added to 1 to make it work right for my resolution. The WSGF stuff just plain didn't work for me. Read through his info for 2 on this page to see if it'll work for you. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1165078098 e: also the addon for 1, Legends of Aranna was somehow disabled or something even though the Steam version still has all the files. This guys downloadable exe files add it back and doesnt affect any steam recorded time played or anything. And is all quite safe, though scan it as you normally would. OgNar fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 09:07
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sebmojo posted:I just remember it being insanely dull e: I like Dungeon Jeyne Kassynder Siege 3, though.
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Feb 23, 2020 09:42
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There were apparently remakes of Ultima 5 and 6 done in the Dungeon Siege engine that I never got around to playing, but I always kind of wanted to. But now the engine is so old that I can't really go back to it and would rather play the original versions of the Ultima games instead.
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Feb 23, 2020 10:03
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My (admittedly hazy) memory of Dungeon Siege is that it is a single linear path going from the farm you start with to the big bad lair, and that the party fights on its own and levels up on its own. The game basically plays itself.
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Feb 23, 2020 10:11
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Yes, it's like watching a computer masturbate
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Feb 23, 2020 11:04
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My difficulty opinion is that it's totally fine to have multiple difficulties and it should be encouraged, but if a specific difficulty is important for the game (like the soulsbornes, or sekiro) then it's totally fine to just have one difficulty, since that's what the vision for the game is built around.
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Feb 23, 2020 11:54
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Dungeon Siege 1 was a great chatroom. In multiplayer you could just tag someone as follow and then one guy lead the group to keep the screensaver going while everyone else bullshit in chat. Dungeon Siege 3 is a fine game crippled by mismanaged expectations. It appeared to be an ARPG challenger to Diablo etc. when it was a prototypical action loot game like Victor Vran and the multiplayer was similarly couch/close friend focused instead of drop in drop out loot smashing which was almost but not entirely unsupported by the multiplayer. It tried selling itself on a story with choices bullshit which it didn't live up to but Jeyne Kassynder Jeyne Kassynder Jeyne Kassynder was enough to keep on a pace, if not supply an entirely fine lore dump. I realize it's 2020 and there's so many great games out it's hard to recommend a fine one. But the action loot game is pretty underserved in the front of story and someone looking for more Victor Vran or Gauntlet to play on the couch with someone can pick up DS3 and be pleasantly surprised.
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Feb 23, 2020 13:18
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emoticon posted:So I've seen a bit of this since the whole Sekiro difficulty non-troversy, and aside from the mild grossness of some hot takes associating easy mode with the disabled or differently-abled because apparently they don't understand that wheelchair basketball isn't just leg basketball with easier rules, I think people who don't enjoy FromSoft games don't really "get" how difficulty changes the way the game feels. Do you not see the dissonance between "the games have to be hard, because it's part of the atmosphere" and "difficulty is completely subjective"? If From were to add an Easy Mode to one of their games and people of a lower skill level still found it sufficiently challenging, then what difference would it make? Look Sir Droids posted:The difference between Soulsborne and Sekiro to me is that Dark Souls and Bloodborne give you ways to engage with and modify the difficulty. No difficulty settings needed because you can stats or weapon your way out of problems if needed. Sekiro essentially gives you one and only one approach to the game. It would lose nothing with difficulty settings. I find that kind of difficulty extremely boring. I disagree about the other games not needing additional difficulty modification. While it's true that there are generally ways to overcome a challenge using the game's own mechanics against it, those mechanics themselves tend to be poorly explained, obfuscated, or just inscrutable. It all seems really simple and direct if you've internalized the system mastery aspect, but to absolute newbies it's just as frustrating and confusing as anything else. Also the idea that "well if you get stuck, you can always grind until your stats are enough to push over the boss blocking your progress" is particularly crappy. Very few people these days will stick with a game if the answer to their problem is "just grind until you win".
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Feb 23, 2020 15:32
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Anyway, it's gatekeeping bullshit all the way down. Put an easy mode in all of 'em. Who cares.
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Feb 23, 2020 15:33
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KUF2 is one of the most bizarre games I've played in a long long time. There are some things about it that are genuinely fun, but I've never seen a game lean so aggressively against its own strengths. Fighting in huge battles with your army spamming attacks 'dynasty warrior' style is fun, so lets spend the first 3 hours of the game making sure that almost never happens and take control away from the player half the time when it does. The MMO nonsense is almost parody level bad, with characters constantly giving you quests to 'go to so-and-so and tell them our plan' when so-and-so is literally standing right next to them. The story is complete gibberish, the voice acting is bad, the graphics aren't great, and the lip synching is non-existent so naturally the game forces an in-game cutscene on you about once every minute.
Damn Dirty Ape fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 15:38
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Its nice to see this argument resurface after the Mount and Blade thread had a freak out that they made the AI more intelligent then "run forward and attack" and make them actually block and do footwork and feint. Which was optional. My only assumption is that these people simply didn't exist during a time where difficulty was an option you could freely select, I know that isn't standard in games these days.
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Feb 23, 2020 15:39
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John Murdoch posted:Do you not see the dissonance between "the games have to be hard, because it's part of the atmosphere" and "difficulty is completely subjective"? If From were to add an Easy Mode to one of their games and people of a lower skill level still found it sufficiently challenging, then what difference would it make? Re: the game systems. This doesn’t totally cover your argument but that’s what Wikis are for. As for grinding, yes no one will grind if you’re told hey go grind. But Souls games typically give you another direction to investigate if you get stuck on a boss. From has gotten worse about that as they go. Variety and multiple paths makes up for grinding. In Sekiro getting stuck on a boss and repeatedly failing on them is it’s own form of grinding. One that has minimal variety. If I gotta grind, I’d rather do the Souls version. I feel like I should state I think Sekiro is a great game, it’s just very much not for me. To quote another poster, “Sekiro is the best game I’ve ever hated.”
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Feb 23, 2020 15:42
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Since I just got all golds in Texas I get to fangirl Cook Serve Delicious 3 some more: I love how it handles difficulty so much? With menus being flexible you can choose to have max-difficulty foods and minimal holding stations and infinite prep stations.... or you can go the other way and have easy foods and so on.... and the way the game plays with this flexible difficulty is by restricting the menu in interesting ways "only breakfast foods" meaning you can pick between omelettes or breakfast burritos. Both are... I believe difficulty 4, but the choice between them lets you decide what you're better at. Or something like tamales vs sushi. Both require time-consuming thoughtful prep, but tamales are a million times easier for me. Or a given level mandates at least 8 prep stations, but it's all difficulty 2-3 foods. Or any mixture of the above, so levels are difficult, but not repetitive. And with upgrades and prep station toggles you can sometimes remove a level demanding you to do king potatoes, and you can instead take five extra prep stations instead. I expect things will get a lot tougher as more level packs are released, but what's there is delightful because it's demanding while still being open to someone who isn't great at [x] foods. And then there are the insane cheevo challenges which are purposely insanely hard, but also totally optional.
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Feb 23, 2020 15:44
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Look Sir Droids posted:Re: the game systems. This doesn’t totally cover your argument but that’s what Wikis are for.
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Feb 23, 2020 15:52
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Look Sir Droids posted:Re: the game systems. This doesn’t totally cover your argument but that’s what Wikis are for. You'll still have to learn the boss' tells and patterns eventually, but this sounds like you're pretending it is a linear game. e: Hell, there even is a way to grind the attack upgrades specifically, it is just located fairly late in the game. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 16:15
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Volte posted:My ideal "easy mode" for Sekiro would be some kind of deathless multiplier system where you can never die (well, maybe by plummeting into a pit or something), but you still are incentivized not to get hit by losing score multipliers or accuracy rating, like No-Fail Mode in Rock Band. Especially since Sekiro gets touted as a rhythm game so often. I would never entertain the idea of playing Rock Band without No-Fail Mode, because the idea that "dying" is an integral part of Rock Band's game mechanic is absurd to me. If I gently caress up non-stop from beginning to end and get a final score of 18%, isn't that enough negative feedback to keep me from feeling "undeserved satisfaction" or whatever the gently caress it is the gatekeepers of the world think easy modes will cause? If I blunder my way all the way through Sekiro and see that my total game score was 8%, but in exchange at least I get to see the final boss die by my own hand, that feels like a fair tradeoff in the granted vs. earned payoff ratio. I'm going to phrase this as completely neutrally as I can because I don't fundamentally disagree that everyone should be able to play every game, but I think this particular case is a poor example because the interplay between a death state and the tension of Sekiro's mechanics is fairly necessary. While I don't think something like pruning boss/enemy move sets or turning down attack frequency, things like that, would go amiss, not being able to die in Sekiro at all would basically just turn the game into a movie where you press R1 for a few hours, even with a rhythm game-like score system. Granted I do not have a better option for an easy mode system, aside from the mentioned just toning everything down in aggression/damage. E: I guess my other end of this is a real philosophical rabbit hole of "At what point would you be happier just looking up the cinematics on youtube instead of playing a non-game" but I dunno that also feels somewhat gatekeeper-y and wildly subjective. Orv fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 16:16
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Orv posted:not being able to die in Sekiro at all would basically just turn the game into a movie where you press R1 for a few hours, even with a rhythm game-like score system.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:21
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Can't really agree with that premise.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:24
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Perhaps people would like Soulsborne games more if they were to get good (I gave up on Sekiro myself tbqh)
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Feb 23, 2020 16:24
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Soul Glo posted:Perhaps people would like Soulsborne games more if they were to get good The trouble with getting good is that it takes time, practice, patience, and so on. I made it a decent way into Nioh before the difficulty rose up past what I was willing to practice for. And sometimes people just don't want to put effort into games. Which is fine!
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Feb 23, 2020 16:27
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I hate to be that guy, but Sekiro, and the Dark souls series has whole, forces you to play by it's rules until you understand the game, and as soon as you understand and something clicks, thats when you can fold the game over your knee. Just play the game and figure it out. It's not some roguelite where you're punished by lovely luck.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:30
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anilEhilated posted:Sekiro does that, though - past the first boss the game is very open-ended and you can hunt for health upgrades, explore more areas and tackle different bosses. Yes, it will expect you to learn the boss you're stuck on - but it also gives you plenty of space to practice while still finding out new things. It also helps that every boss you beat makes other bosses easier by means of a damage upgrade. IIRC you only get health and damage upgrades by beating bosses, so exploration doesn't help you one bit. If that changes late game, that's just well, too late. And yes, the world was open early on, but it got real small to me after beating the bull. The lack of exploring or the world in general giving you any kind of help just made me think they should have made a boss rush game. Orv posted:I'm going to phrase this as completely neutrally as I can because I don't fundamentally disagree that everyone should be able to play every game, but I think this particular case is a poor example because the interplay between a death state and the tension of Sekiro's mechanics is fairly necessary. While I don't think something like pruning boss/enemy move sets or turning down attack frequency, things like that, would go amiss, not being able to die in Sekiro at all would basically just turn the game into a movie where you press R1 for a few hours, even with a rhythm game-like score system. Sekiro difficulty would be easily solved with a sliding scale that increases player damage and/or makes enemies weaker. You literally lose nothing. The difficulty in Sekiro is the repetition. To beat a boss, you have to successfully do X so many times. For an easier mode, just make me have to do X fewer times. I still learn the systems and how the game wants me to play, but the game doesn't turn in to doing everything perfect or an endurance run. I have this on PC. I could mod it in. But I don't care to since it's an easy fix that should have been there is the first place. But Miyamoto's artistic vision... 
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Feb 23, 2020 16:34
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I love the Souls games but after about 12 hours into Sekiro I got to this valley thing with lots of bridges and open cliffs and I had to fight this dude while a bunch of other dudes rained arrows down onto me and I just got tired and went and played The Witcher 3 or something I think. That said when you are in the zone and parrying and dodging a boss' attack pattern perfectly after he has pushed your poo poo in like ten times in a row you feel amazing.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:36
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Fargin Icehole posted:I hate to be that guy, but Sekiro, and the Dark souls series has whole, forces you to play by it's rules until you understand the game, and as soon as you understand and something clicks, thats when you can fold the game over your knee. There are plenty of fights in those games that are difficult even when you understand the game
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Feb 23, 2020 16:37
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Look Sir Droids posted:Sekiro difficulty would be easily solved with a sliding scale that increases player damage and/or makes enemies weaker. You literally lose nothing. The difficulty in Sekiro is the repetition. To beat a boss, you have to successfully do X so many times. For an easier mode, just make me have to do X fewer times. I still learn the systems and how the game wants me to play, but the game doesn't turn in to doing everything perfect or an endurance run. Yeah I have no problem with that kind of thing.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:38
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The idea that dying and rote repetition are necessary to even qualify as a game is absurd. That mechanic comes from the arcade days where dying was the point where you put in another quarter. If Sekiro had a no-fail mode, that doesn't mean I wouldn't replay every single battle over and over again until I perfected it. Give me the means to have fun and I will have fun. That's what I'm here for after all. Dark Souls is probably my all-time favourite game but it's got nothing on the amount of fun I had as a child playing "the floor is lava". But if I'm understanding correctly, that was actually a movie since you can't lose.Fargin Icehole posted:I hate to be that guy, but Sekiro, and the Dark souls series has whole, forces you to play by it's rules until you understand the game, and as soon as you understand and something clicks, thats when you can fold the game over your knee.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:39
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Look Sir Droids posted:IIRC you only get health and damage upgrades by beating bosses, so exploration doesn't help you one bit. If that changes late game, that's just well, too late. And yes, the world was open early on, but it got real small to me after beating the bull. And, funnily enough, just after the bull is where the game world opens up - at that point, you have access to at least three bosses, each at the end of an area bigger than the outskirts you traveled through. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 16:41
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Volte posted:Sekiro is not like that. It's a game about technical perfection and manual dexterity, which Dark Souls is most certainly not. I played the entire game and at no point did it "click" like the Souls games do. I certainly got better at it but every battle required about the same amount of memorization and muscle memory. Every hard-won battle, rather than feeling like a satisfying coming-together of all the things I've been learning so far, felt like another hour or two I devoted to learning a very specific skill that I'll never use again. Sekiro is like that but it also requires more technical skill on average than a souls games
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Feb 23, 2020 16:41
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anilEhilated posted:You are, in fact, not remembering correctly. Health upgrades can be found on minibosses or just hidden in the world. I count the minibosses as bosses. And you needed four health upgrade mats to upgrade. Exploring alone wouldn't provide much benefit on its own and some of th minibosses were tougher than actual bosses. I played for 20-25 hours and lost patience with that poo poo.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:45
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Based on how Dead Rising is based on a guy dying and retrying all the time, it relies on skill, knowledge of game mechanics, and picking the right equipment, I declare it to be a soulslike.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:46
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Volte posted:The idea that dying and rote repetition are necessary to even qualify as a game is absurd. That mechanic comes from the arcade days where dying was the point where you put in another quarter. If Sekiro had a no-fail mode, that doesn't mean I wouldn't replay every single battle over and over again until I perfected it. Give me the means to have fun and I will have fun. That's what I'm here for after all. Dark Souls is probably my all-time favourite game but it's got nothing on the amount of fun I had as a child playing "the floor is lava". But if I'm understanding correctly, that was actually a movie since you can't lose. So if you're willing to perfect every boss fight then why not just do it normally? No boss has an arduous path to return to it.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:46
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Orv posted:So if you're willing to perfect every boss fight then why not just do it normally? No boss has an arduous path to return to it. edit: I mean really, even just having a practice mode that's outside of the main game but you can grind on the bosses to get better at them would be a huge step forward. Volte fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 16:50
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No I don't but I also wouldn't really compare pianists to playing even a technically complex video game either. I guess I just don't really get your viewpoint, but it's fine.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:52
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Look Sir Droids posted:Exploring alone wouldn't provide much benefit on its own and some of th minibosses were tougher than actual bosses. e: I get it, the game isn't for everyone, you did not enjoy it and that's fair. What isn't fair is that a lot of the objections you're making is blatantly untrue.
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Feb 23, 2020 16:55
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kirbysuperstar posted:Champions: Return to Arms is still the best ARPG I was confused about this until I looked it up and realized this is the sequel to Champions of Norrath, the Everquest ARPG, and that also I have it and played it to completion with three of my friends back in the day. It was a ton of fun; I played as the wood elf ranger because the other characters were taken, so I got really good at shooting enemies from far away and making the screen pull all the way back. I looked up a video of it, and the sound effects immediately took me back.
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