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Fine, fine! I'll do it. First order of business: All Star Cheeks the Toy Wonder.
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Feb 23, 2020 08:23
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| # ? May 30, 2024 01:46 |
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Didio greenlit all Star Batman & robin, identity crisis, the rise of arsenal, and that titans story where deathstroke stuffs Ryan Chois body inside a matchbox. #neverforget
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Feb 23, 2020 08:37
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Noob Saibot posted:Didio greenlit all Star Batman & robin, identity crisis, the rise of arsenal, and that titans story where deathstroke stuffs Ryan Chois body inside a matchbox. Hey hey hey. Don't put All Star Batman and Robin in with that crap.
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Feb 23, 2020 09:02
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Madkal posted:Hey hey hey. Don't put All Star Batman and Robin in with that crap. Two words, Yellow Room. But yeah, Didio greenlit a lot of crap and was seemingly responsible for a lot of well liked characters getting the shaft. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 09:20
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Noob Saibot posted:Didio greenlit all Star Batman & robin, identity crisis, the rise of arsenal, and that titans story where deathstroke stuffs Ryan Chois body inside a matchbox. Madkal posted:Hey hey hey. Don't put All Star Batman and Robin in with that crap. Jim Lee (who's still the publisher) drew All Star Batman and Robin. And honestly, regardless of your opinion of the actual book, having Frank Miller write a prestige Batman book with art by Jim Lee at the time is a very obvious thing that anyone with any decision making power at DC would be like "Yes, please do this now."
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Feb 23, 2020 09:21
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doomrider7 posted:Wasn't he also involved in a lot of shitfuckery with how Stephanie Brown and Billy Batson were handled back in the early to mid 2000's? I recall those very unpopular changes being on humor at least that being the train of thought. Ditto for a bunch of popular and well liked stuff from the Nu52 being canned like the Starfire run. Yeah, it was reputedly DiDio that took away being Batgirl from Stephanie (Cass* had given it up to Steph for... Reasons) because he feared 'brand dilution' among the half-dozen Robins that didn't have to change nearly as fast. *Although she did wind up as Black Bat, which I would greatly prefer to Orphan because it's much more Bat-Fam relevant and also would probably give her a better costume.
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Feb 23, 2020 13:28
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Didio is famous for holding deep personal grudges against creators, which is not what you want in your guy in charge of your small well connected industry. His dislike for Chuck Dixon is one of the highest profile, but once they put Bane in the Batman movie there wasn't anyway to deny him a check. Really obviously, almost every major writer at Marvel over the last 15 years started at DC and jumped shop at the first opportunity. Other than Snyder and King DC just can't convince guys to stay. Hell, when Vision was blowing everyone's socks off the only way to keep King was to give him the biggest book in the company. The only writer DC has gotten from Marvel is Bendis, a man who had done a major relaunch of almost every character the company. Bendis had done it all and was definitely not a creator to get excited about any longer. (Except Jessica Jones, that book was still fire) Offering up the delightful Tomasi Superman title for ritual murder as the price to invoke is a bummer but his stuff has been fine. DC having less good books helps it for sure. Talent retention is definitely a major problem at DC. Hell, long serving scribes Jurgens and Tomasi both wanted Superman's underwear on the outside for years so hopefully Bendis coming in and getting that concession as they were ejected from their runs wasn't too much of a slap in the face.
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Feb 23, 2020 14:35
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Didio is famous for holding deep personal grudges against creators, which is not what you want in your guy in charge of your small well connected industry. His dislike for Chuck Dixon is one of the highest profile, but once they put Bane in the Batman movie there wasn't anyway to deny him a check. Looking at DC talent that has been kept, or used multiple times on and off during Didio run you have: 1. Snyder 2. King 3. Morrison 4. Percy 5. Rucka 6. Simone 7 Bendis 8. Tynion Outside of Bendis I think those are the longest still writing for DC writers. Not a bad list. Didio is also weird because on the one hand the dude killed Vertigo and on the other allowed for niche imprints like Young Animal and Hill house. He liked to champion non Batman/Superman books as well but those books would rarely last past 12 or so issues.
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Feb 23, 2020 17:19
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Give the job to Morrison so he can feed everyone Peyote while the practice Chaos Magik writing their books. In all seriousness though, while I'm not jumping with glee at Didio leaving (it's going to entirely depend on who they get to replace him), I can't help but be a little happy with the fact considering how he made it his life mission to gently caress with the characters I loved at DC. Dick Grayson becoming "Ric Grayson" is One More Day levels of bad. Wally West fusing with Dr. Manhattan after murdering a handful of super heroes is just...I don't even know. Who even knows where Kyle Rayner is at this point. Remember when Stephanie Brown was Batgirl? Cassandra Cain was in a movie and even she isn't getting play. I think it's pretty much confirmed that Dan was fired, probably a series of big flubs amounting in being canned. Doomsday Clock for example landed with a thud because he couldn't wrangle Johns and Frank to finish the book in a sane amount of time and 5G just sounded absolutely insane. Obviously, I love legacy characters, but replacing every super hero in the roster and making it "permanent" with characters like Jonathan Kent and Luke Fox? That's just way too big of a risk. DC needs fresh blood regardless, and while Rebirth definitely was the kick in the rear end the publisher needs, Didio's rear end should have been fired for the shitshow that was the New 52, especially with the behind the scenes stuff.
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Feb 23, 2020 17:50
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Fraction and DeConnick came over with Bendis and are killing it on Olsen and Aquaman. How could y'all leave out DC's golden boy, Scott Lobdell?  Reminder that DC's kid and young adult graphic novels are great at distilling what's amazing about their superheroes and putting them in relatively continuity-free zones where they can smile, learn a lesson, not commit murder, and save the day. Green Lantern: Legacy and Superman Smashes The Klan are two strong examples of this in terms of standing up for one's community - Harley Quinn: Breaking Glass goes there too with some Joker-tainted caveats. Black Canary: Ignite, Shadow of the Bat (featuring CASSANDRA CAIN AND ORACLE), Catwoman: Under The Moon, and Zatanna and the House of Secrets all put their protagonists through a youth-sized emotional wringer but feel largely authentic about it (absent/abusive parent, homelessness) and tell good stories as a result. The YA novel adaptations are alright, with Batman: Nightwalker having more visual fun than Wonder Woman: Warbringer, which definitely feels like a novel with pictures. Comics for kids are cool.
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Feb 23, 2020 18:10
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DC also got G Willow Wilson, who, aside from Bendis, is about the only Marvel writer to create a new character that's become massively popular.
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Feb 23, 2020 18:16
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Didio is famous for holding deep personal grudges against creators, which is not what you want in your guy in charge of your small well connected industry. His dislike for Chuck Dixon is one of the highest profile, but once they put Bane in the Batman movie there wasn't anyway to deny him a check. quote:Dan DiDio came to DC after my departure so he wasn’t in any way a factor in my leaving. That’s the problem with these rumors. They don’t look at the timeline. I didn’t even meet Dan until after CrossGen had imploded. And I don’t think he was responsible for undoing my contributions either. I know exactly whose doorstep to place that one on. quote:Really obviously, almost every major writer at Marvel over the last 15 years started at DC and jumped shop at the first opportunity. Other than Snyder and King DC just can't convince guys to stay. Hell, when Vision was blowing everyone's socks off the only way to keep King was to give him the biggest book in the company. Or there could be no clear pattern here. Even the examples you're giving, "oh well DC got Tom King by offering him Batman" or "they only got Bendis by promising him Superman"... how do you think getting people to sign contracts works? Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 18:17
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Skwirl posted:DC also got G Willow Wilson, who, aside from Bendis, is about the only Marvel writer to create a new character that's become massively popular. is willow doing anything for dc since leaving ww
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Feb 23, 2020 18:41
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site posted:is willow doing anything for dc since leaving ww I think she is taking over The Dreaming
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Feb 23, 2020 18:48
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Skwirl posted:DC also got G Willow Wilson, who, aside from Bendis, is about the only Marvel writer to create a new character that's become massively popular. I assume that whatever is going on at DC is related to WarnerMedia being acquired by AT&T, and all the components of old WarnerMedia having to justify their existence and produce the kinds of earnings that will allow AT&T to start paying down the giant debt they took on to buy them.
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Feb 23, 2020 19:05
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Edge & Christian posted:Source? Things I hear from industry folks, convention rumors, in some cases people who know certain creators personally. What people say officially isn't always how it is, but believe what you like. I think Didio did a lot of things I liked, and a lot of things I didn't. My business relies on DC putting out things I can sell, so I may be more invested in them doing well across the board than most.
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Feb 23, 2020 19:09
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I wonder how long until Waid starts writing for DC again.
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Feb 23, 2020 19:23
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https://twitter.com/zdarsky/status/1231706848438386688 https://twitter.com/zdarsky/status/1231711979477168128
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Feb 24, 2020 00:14
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Things I hear from industry folks, convention rumors, in some cases people who know certain creators personally. What people say officially isn't always how it is, but believe what you like. Dixon came back to DC when Didio was in power and worked for a few years before getting fired, which was from all accounts over his politics; whether you think that's okay or not is up to you, but "we stopped giving Chuck DIxon work because he won't stop writing articles about how we're all gay communist Islamofascist homosexualists who worship at the altar of our Murderous Kenyan Usurper" is not really a great single data point for you to hang the entire "I hear things, don't believe what people say on the record, trust me, he has grudges and alienated a lot of people. Such as Chuck Dixon. And uh waves hands in the distance other people, I hear things. quote:I think Didio did a lot of things I liked, and a lot of things I didn't. My business relies on DC putting out things I can sell, so I may be more invested in them doing well across the board than most.
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Feb 24, 2020 00:56
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Let's be honest here, he got fired for giving Superman red trunks again. Entirely justified firing for that.
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Feb 24, 2020 01:01
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FMguru posted:They also got NK Jemisin, currently the hottest thing in SF publishing, to write a series for them. Lay heed to the REAL culprit! https://twitter.com/KurtBusiek/status/1231713358392385536
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Feb 24, 2020 01:13
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My guy, I don't really care that you don't understand my point.  I didn't realize Chuck Dixon is a piece of poo poo these days, but it is good to know. I don't think Didio is a bad guy, just a guy who made too many bad decisions to be in power as long as he was. I love that he really was hype for comics! I don't think his intentions were evil or anything. I just hope DC can get someone in charge that can revitalize their product line. The fact that the went from having an abysmal kids line to making really high quality graphic novels for teen girls is awesome. The Batgirl, Mera, and Harley Quinn ones were fantastic. They are making some strides, but they really need to recapture the energy of Rebirth.
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Feb 24, 2020 02:32
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Lord_Hambrose posted:My guy, I don't really care that you don't understand my point. Their inability to keep momentum is what's kept me from even bothering to pick up their stuff since they did Nu52 do not wanting to invest time and emotion on something that's gonna either go nowhere at best and be a flopping bust at worst.
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Feb 24, 2020 02:37
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Madkal posted:Looking at DC talent that has been kept, or used multiple times on and off during Didio run you have: I feel like there were more non supes/bat books pre Didio and those books lasted much longer (Ostranders books like suicide squad, specter,Manhunter, Ennis Hitman, Robinson’s starman, etc. we never really saw anything like that under Didio.
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Feb 24, 2020 03:20
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Noob Saibot posted:I feel like there were more non supes/bat books pre Didio and those books lasted much longer (Ostranders books like suicide squad, specter,Manhunter, Ennis Hitman, Robinson’s starman, etc. we never really saw anything like that under Didio. Starman and Manhunter were great books. I miss stuff like where we could focus on characters that weren't affiliated with the big orgs and were often plainclothes figuring poo poo out ditto for Gotham Central which was from the PoV of Gotham City PD.
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Feb 24, 2020 03:37
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Noob Saibot posted:I feel like there were more non supes/bat books pre Didio and those books lasted much longer (Ostranders books like suicide squad, specter,Manhunter, Ennis Hitman, Robinson’s starman, etc. we never really saw anything like that under Didio. There were a bunch of non Cape books in the initial New 52 wave, Animal Man, All Star Western, Demon Knights, I, Vampire, etc. Most of them were canceled pretty quick because they didn't sell well, but DC was at least still willing to publish comics without any of the Justice League showing up in them.
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Feb 24, 2020 03:52
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Skwirl posted:There were a bunch of non Cape books in the initial New 52 wave, Animal Man, All Star Western, Demon Knights, I, Vampire, etc. I've heard lots of nice things about Demon Knights. Was there an explanation as to why they didn't sell?
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Feb 24, 2020 04:09
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doomrider7 posted:I've heard lots of nice things about Demon Knights. Was there an explanation as to why they didn't sell? 1) It was launched at the same time as 51 other new books 2) It didn't feature any A-list or B-list heroes (Etrigan? Madam Xanadu? Shining Knight?) 3) It was set, not in the mainline DCU, but in some odd alternative medieval era Frankly, I'm surprised it made it to 24 issues.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:13
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It got worse over time too.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:18
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I, Vampire was also a solid book that lasted a 20 off issues. Also there was the DC You stuff that gave us a short lived Prez, a Midnighter comic, a Martian Mangunter comic and some other titles I can't remember. Edit: Demon Knights went to poo poo after Cornell left the book.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:19
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Dawgstar posted:Lay heed to the REAL culprit! I think it's hilarious that he didn't name Mark Waid, a dude who is being sued for allegedly blackballing someone.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:27
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Madkal posted:I, Vampire was also a solid book that lasted a 20 off issues. Also there was the DC You stuff that gave us a short lived Prez, a Midnighter comic, a Martian Mangunter comic and some other titles I can't remember. Yeah, that's the big problem. Demon Knights started off fantastically and with a great concept (also it was tied into the regular DCU as they became Stormwatch), but after the writer changed, it just became boring.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:34
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People complain (reasonably) about DiDio pulling Cass Cain as Batgirl and putting Steph into the role, forgetting that it's also, IIRC, DiDio who was all in on the misogynistic mess that was making Steph Robin just to slaughter her and cause Batman manpain. Because he didn't like the character. Also Identity Crisis. Just, Identity Crisis. Lot of bodies praising his inclusivity now, but to me it just looks like at some point he learned which way the wind was blowing. And I'm glad he's finally bloody gone.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:36
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One of my great disappointments was that, since the majority of the Demon Knights were immortal, we never got a modern-day reunion.
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Feb 24, 2020 04:37
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I Vampire was a really great book, but you also had stuff like the utterly horrid Dr Manhattan book. I think the biggest failure of New 52 is that it was five whole years that are for the most part unsalvagable. There are a few bright points like Snyder's Batman and the Jeff Lemire Green Arrow issues. Harley Quinn was fun? Green Lantern was a direct continuation of years of Green Lantern and wasn't a relaunch. Jim Lee lowered himself to do interior art for one Justice League story? Holy poo poo Rebirth blew it out of the water.
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Feb 24, 2020 05:03
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Dawgstar posted:Lay heed to the REAL culprit! What the hell could Andy Khouri have done to get Dan fired?
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Feb 24, 2020 05:09
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Rhyno posted:What the hell could Andy Khouri have done to get Dan fired? I don't know what he could have actually done, but I know why he's on that list. https://twitter.com/andykhouri/status/1103144587793559552?s=20
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Feb 24, 2020 06:26
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Demon Knights was rad and I was sad to see it go, even if it was getting worse. Wasn't Animal Man and Swamp Thing pretty well liked among the New 52 stuff?
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Feb 24, 2020 06:54
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Vandar posted:Demon Knights was rad and I was sad to see it go, even if it was getting worse. Yeah, up until Rotworld.
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Feb 24, 2020 07:04
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| # ? May 30, 2024 01:46 |
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Every corner of the comics spectrum has had creators pulling terrible decisions since the time I started reading regularly, so it's hard to look at any one terrible tendency and pinpoint it towards any one specific source, even at the honchos themselves. But, on the broad scale, I would say that there's a tendency at the Marvel leadership through these past years to try to please everyone all at once, and sometimes that spreads things a bit thin conceptually, but it also gives Marvel a broad audience range that you are, generally, not actively annoying all the time. The overall modus operandi I might ascribe to DiDio's tenure at DC, however, could be summed up as "You can't please everyone all the time, so we're not going to try." This leads to...a stronger narrative focus, but a much more narrow range of story types, and entire swaths of audiences are just...literally left begging for scraps for years and years. So as many great things may have been championed by DiDio, it's this sort of give-and-take business model -- "We can have X thing, sure, but only if we don't have WYZ instead" -- that'll stick in my memory the most.
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Feb 24, 2020 07:10
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