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Jerusalem posted:If that's the Master's big reveal and the Doctor goes,"....uhh... yeah, I know...." and then it turns out the Master is like pre-Jacobi or something and he's just shown up to some after-echo of the Time War and made some crazy loving assumptions I'd laugh my rear end off. That'd be a really good launch pad for a character arc -- not only is it hilarious, but now you've got a Master who knows about the Time War before it happens, leading to some potentially cool shenanigans. Obviously I get you're not being serious, but I reckon there's a genuinely cool idea there.
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Feb 24, 2020 10:22
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Grasping at a straw, but so much theorizing about Gallifreyans being evolved humans - it was strange that The Master said "heart" in the singular during his reveal. Maybe he's had a regeneration that made him more human biologically and it prompted him to investigate why.
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Feb 24, 2020 10:42
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Nah, obviously his second heart withered after the destruction of Gallifrey, forcing him to cut it out.
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Feb 24, 2020 10:47
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I think it's going to end up that the humans passing through the portal end up as proto Timelords, the Garda lad is one of them and he's being experimented on by Time Lords to invent the regeneration process which leads back to why Jack has the same recovery mode that the other guy had when he fell off the cliff. The whole Irish setting could be a Castrovalva type setup that the Master made before. Edit based on "heart(s)" comments - they seemed very specific with some dialogue in the episode, repeatedly referring to the survivors as "humans" (like the way ferengi refer to "females"). So much that I think they will make a point of them, or others they encounter, not being so... Marmaduke! fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 11:38
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Jeffe posted:Grasping at a straw, but so much theorizing about Gallifreyans being evolved humans - it was strange that The Master said "heart" in the singular during his reveal. Maybe he's had a regeneration that made him more human biologically and it prompted him to investigate why. He said "hearts" in part 2 though.
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Feb 24, 2020 12:41
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Burkion posted:What is with the Master and Cybermen I remember this discussion coming up around Dark Water/Death in Heaven, that the Cybermen are kind of the perfect extra 'piece' to a Doctor/Master conflict because they're essentially the antithesis of what the Doctor actually likes about humanity. The Doctor loves that humans are so loving, and clever, sometimes stupid, but always special. The Cybermen end up being a great thing to put alongside the Master in their conflicts, because they're basically humanity but with none of the things the Doctor enjoys about humans. Which gives the Master a lot to work with, while also giving the Cybermen a more charismatic, interesting 'frontman' rather than just being a faceless mass.
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Feb 24, 2020 13:33
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I don't understand anything I just watched.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:47
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and isn't it great? a day removed and this makes me real annoyed about hell bent. Like if this was the post-50th return of gallifrey and not that.
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Feb 24, 2020 17:06
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It showing the Doctor Gallifrey means nothing to me. Gallifrey has been destroyed and back a million times. Who cares anymore?
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Feb 24, 2020 17:12
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Generally I liked it, but it has a LOT to tie up. The survivors bits felt really bleak for some reason, and I always fear for the companions when they get separated from the Doctor like that. The new cyber helmet design is great, with the flanges reminiscent of The Invasion and beyond’s style. I like the wider heads for some reason, gives them a good silhouette. For some reason I was expecting the Boundary not to work/be real, and the solution for humanity was just walking into the sea. Also, I want more RuthDoc! 
The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 17:16
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Jerusalem posted:If that's the Master's big reveal and the Doctor goes,"....uhh... yeah, I know...." and then it turns out the Master is like pre-Jacobi or something and he's just shown up to some after-echo of the Time War and made some crazy loving assumptions I'd laugh my rear end off. "Boy, are you going to have fun with drums later in life."
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Feb 24, 2020 17:46
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The_Doctor posted:Also, I want more RuthDoc! Yeah, next week has A LOT of heavy lifting to do to wrap up this season.
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Feb 24, 2020 17:47
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Chuff McNothing posted:and isn't it great? Hell Bent was good though, whereas this was 50 minutes of aimless corridor running and angry Cyberman ranting
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Feb 24, 2020 18:14
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I'm still annoyed we only got one episode of Gallifrey being back after the 50th before Chibnall destroyed it again.
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Feb 24, 2020 18:18
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https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/susan-s-war-2206
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Feb 24, 2020 18:20
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cargohills posted:Hell Bent was good though, whereas this was 50 minutes of aimless corridor running and angry Cyberman ranting heaven sent was the good one.
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Feb 24, 2020 18:30
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they were both good
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Feb 24, 2020 18:35
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Jerusalem posted:If that's the Master's big reveal and the Doctor goes,"....uhh... yeah, I know...." and then it turns out the Master is like pre-Jacobi or something and he's just shown up to some after-echo of the Time War and made some crazy loving assumptions I'd laugh my rear end off. That would be hilarious. A Master uncertain, amazing!
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Feb 24, 2020 18:36
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cargohills posted:they were both good Nah. Heaven Sent is one of the best episodes ever, and Hell Bent was the disappointing conclusion to it.
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Feb 24, 2020 18:42
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actually it wasn't disappointing at all, because it was good
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Feb 24, 2020 18:47
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cargohills posted:actually it wasn't disappointing at all, because it was good Nah. Cop-out ending for Clara, stupid stuff about The Hybrid, and the Doctor murdering someone were bad, and not good.
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Feb 24, 2020 18:53
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marktheando posted:Cop-out ending for Clara. not a cop out, actually good, she's basically doctor who marktheando posted:stupid stuff about The Hybrid actually good, making fun of the same dumb lore poo poo that chib is playing straight now marktheando posted:the Doctor murdering someone [was] bad he didn't actually murder someone but yes, it was a not nice thing for him to do - if only there was some way to tell whether the show thought he was being bad when he did that, such as by having clara say "you're being bad, Doctor" and then him being punished for being bad
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Feb 24, 2020 18:57
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cargohills posted:not a cop out, actually good, she's basically doctor who Should have either had the courage to kill her properly, or the sense to not kill her in the first place. It was a bad ending for her character. cargohills posted:actually good, making fun of the same dumb lore poo poo that chib is playing straight now The hybrid shite was beyond tedious after years and years of Moffat mystery tease shite. That it was subverted a bit, in a way that is nowhere near as clever as Moffat thinks it is, in the conclusion doesn't alter the whole series we spent building up to it. Also 'making fun' suggests some humour, which was not present. cargohills posted:he didn't actually murder someone but yes, it was a not nice thing for him to do - if only there was some way to tell whether the show thought he was being bad when he did that, such as by having clara say "you're being bad, Doctor" and then him being punished for being bad It's been made clear that regeneration feels enough like dying. Even if not technically murder, he robbed that Time Lord of potentially centuries of his life. It was not cool, the Doctor is better than that. Don't write him to do that.
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Feb 24, 2020 19:12
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marktheando posted:Should have either had the courage to kill her properly, or the sense to not kill her in the first place. It was a bad ending for her character. why marktheando posted:The hybrid shite was beyond tedious after years and years of Moffat mystery tease shite. That it was subverted a bit, in a way that is nowhere near as clever as Moffat thinks it is, in the conclusion doesn't alter the whole series we spent building up to it. Also 'making fun' suggests some humour, which was not present. it was clever actually and there were lots of jokes marktheando posted:It's been made clear that regeneration feels enough like dying. RTD depicted it like that but Moffat pretty obviously doesn't feel the same way - compare Tennant's final speech to Smith's: "We all change when you think about it. We're all different all through our lives. And that's okay, that's good. You've got to keep moving." marktheando posted:the Doctor is better than that. Don't write him to do that. why
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Feb 24, 2020 19:20
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Remember all those times the Doctor said he doesn't use guns?
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Feb 24, 2020 21:21
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do i need to post the video
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Feb 24, 2020 21:35
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marktheando posted:I'm still annoyed we only got one episode of Gallifrey being back after the 50th before Chibnall destroyed it again. Yeah, I'm genuinely mystified by that decision. Also we didn't need a return of the Master this soon after Missy died. (I know, "this soon" meaning a couple of years, but it's only been a season) I like the actor's take on him a lot, but they need to space this poo poo out better, because him/her dying and reappearing every other season makes the character lose his/her punch. e: Oh, good episode btw. Still not completely sold on Chibnall, though. These seasons feel even more hit-and-miss than Moffat's. Majorian fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 22:05
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The trouble with any showrunner attempting to tell the final, no-fooling, absolute last word story on some particular part of Doctor Who is that eventually a new showrunner is gonna come along who immediately goes,"NO I GET THE FINAL, NO-FOOLING, ABSOLUTE LAST WORD STORY!  " and then the whole thing repeats.Moffat made a lot of missteps but I was very happy with the idea that the Time Lords were still alive out there somewhere but the Doctor wanted nothing to do with them, and while I'm sure there are all kinds of stories that could be told with or about them, I'd much rather they just.... left them alone for a long time.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:19
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Rhyno posted:Remember all those times the Doctor said he doesn't use guns? DoctorWhat posted:do i need to post the video I mean there's a difference between killing in self defence or the defence of others which the Doctor does all the time, and straight up murdering a dude.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:26
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The Doctor murdered lots of people. She has an MD in murderology.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:31
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marktheando posted:I mean there's a difference between killing in self defence or the defence of others which the Doctor does all the time, and straight up murdering a dude. please review these earlier posts (and also he does it in defence of another and the guy he shoots literally wishes him luck): cargohills posted:he didn't actually murder someone cargohills posted:RTD depicted [regeneration] like [dying] but Moffat pretty obviously doesn't feel the same way - compare Tennant's final speech to Smith's: "We all change when you think about it. We're all different all through our lives. And that's okay, that's good. You've got to keep moving."
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Feb 24, 2020 22:35
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I'll also point out, Regeneration has always and will always be presented as the Death of Self. That person is dead now and some one else has taken their place. This has been a thing since it was introduced and has been explored and expanded on time and time again. Some are able to pass on easier than others, some are happy to do it, but it's always a death. Nine did it happily because he was a guilt ridden wreck. Ten didn't want to go because he was a narcissist and was relatively young. Eleven lived a billion fuckety years and was fine with moving on, especially because it meant that he COULD move on which meant he had new regenerations. It's the whole reason why killing the Doctor has stakes and is important. It's not that the Doctor will die, the character never will. We know that. It's THAT PERSON will die. Each Doctor carries some of the spirit of all the Doctors before them, but if she was killed this next episode it'd be sad because SHE'S gone. the Doctor killing some one as a distraction is lovely, especially when that person has been nothing but nice and friendly to them. And not lovely in a way that makes sense. Clara grates because she dominated the show in a way that smacks of bad writing, my companion is the bestest ever, but she wasn't even that most of the time. There was a good period where she WAS just a normal companion and that was good, but who and what Clara is shifted like the winds and was never consistent from season to season. It says nothing about the actress and everything about the writing. Amy and Rory also wore on but they were at least consistent about who their characters were from start to finish. And they didn't get to cap off their story by becoming quasi immortals with their own TARDIS. The IDEA could be good, but how it was done was not for me. Maybe it worked for you, but it fell flat on its rear end for me.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:36
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Jerusalem posted:Moffat made a lot of missteps but I was very happy with the idea that the Time Lords were still alive out there somewhere but the Doctor wanted nothing to do with them, and while I'm sure there are all kinds of stories that could be told with or about them, I'd much rather they just.... left them alone for a long time. That was my biggest problem with Hell Bent. The 50th anniversary and the Time of the Doctor set up the search for Gallifrey as a driving motivation for the Doctor. Nothing really happens on-screen and by his first meeting with Missy he hasn't found it. She claims she has but misleads him. Then in Hell Bent we're back to a classic depiction of Gallifrey, skipping any of the developments in between.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:37
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Burkion posted:I'll also point out, Regeneration has always and will always be presented as the Death of Self. That person is dead now and some one else has taken their place. don't think this is particularly accurate, especially given that it wasn't even regeneration until it happened for the third time (before it was "renewal" and "changing your face"). don't think any reasonable reading of the line from the Smith regen that i've quoted below indicates that the 11th Doctor sees it as death either.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:44
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And if any single regeneration didn't act like a completely different person, including the one we're talking about specifically, and there weren't years and years backing up how Time Lords view regeneration as death- see the Second Doctor all but calling it a death sentence- you would have a point. However, that is not the case. Regeneration is the Death of Personality- those personalities still exist in them, but they are not the same. This is why the Doctor can be a clown, a suave spy, a schemer, an incompetent dad, Tom Baker, a pacifist and a warrior. They're all the same being, but they are all different people that make up the same whole. And Eleven was at peace with his literal actual death before he found out he was going to regenerate. That might color his final speech just a touch, don't you think?
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Feb 24, 2020 22:49
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I'll quote it again, then: "We all change when you think about it. We're all different all through our lives. And that's okay, that's good. You've got to keep moving." That's not what dying is. It's describing people changing as they grow and live. Sometimes regeneration is one thing, sometime's it's another. It's a constantly changing show and not everything in it represents the exact same thing ever time, no matter how much you capitalise Death Of Personality to make sure That I Get The Point.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:53
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And that is one single speech VS every single regeneration we've ever been shown. Except Handy I guess. It's literally only relevant so that you can point to it as your one bit of evidence, when the entire rest of the show presents it otherwise. And if you read into what he's actually saying, you see the truth of the matter even there. The change is that who they are is gone and a new person is taking their place. You can call it death or whatever, but that person is gone and unless something weird happens with the universe, they are not coming back. Not how they were. This is shown with the person who regenerated, who regarded her previous regeneration with derision. As if it wasn't her. Eleven having his own nice philosophy does not change that the Doctor murdered someone for a momentary distraction and that's a lovely thing for the character to do.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:57
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I mean even if its not murder, that's still possibly centuries of his life taken away from him.
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Feb 24, 2020 23:16
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They can give new regeneration cycles though.
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Feb 25, 2020 07:09
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Ok fine it was just grievous bodily harm and not murder. I still hate the scene.
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Feb 25, 2020 16:33
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