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AbstractNapper posted:Jesus Christ. Trap is a bad word too? If it's in the context of talking about trans or gender nonconforming people etc, yeah. It's not hard to not punch down like that, thread, and if we can recognise that it's unhealthy to name the reddit posters getting quoted, then we can have a little empathy for other people too. E: serious taxxe 
Anticheese fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 13:46
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AbstractNapper posted:Jesus Christ. Trap is a bad word too? 'Trap' when used to refer to transgender people has been considered pretty seriously offensive for a while, yeah. In regards to your second question, yeah I missed that when he posted it. That happened before the subforum move and it was my responsibility to hit him for it. If you go back there are probably a bunch of times I missed someone using a slur, tbh, so that's on me. It's not that it was okay, more that I was just bad at my job I guess. Anyway I don't know anything about who is or isn't a mod or why any more though so 
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Feb 25, 2020 13:52
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VideoGames posted:This is what the problem with the word trap is. In use of it on someone you are reducing them to a word with negative connotations to begin with. What is a trap in the meaning of the word but a negative thing that is unexpected or bad. You are reducing an entire person to a single word and stating that their appearance tricked, as if their intention was to be sneaky. You are also stating that you are reducing a person down to their genitals and nothing else. You are effectively saying that whoever you are is negated by how I respond to seeing your genital region. This is highly offensive to trans gender people as well. The problem I have with your description is that I don't really think I am reducing a person per se. I am reducing a person in some outfit, so to me it's a description of looks. Like, there's no trap when naked, it's literally impossible, meaning one person can be trap at some times and not at others. And I don't think that reducing an outfit/person combination to a word is wrong (like you can say: "Look at that red shirt" or "Call Ms. Silly Hat", because it's what makes them stand out) Technically I agree that I could use "person in a gender-confusing outfit" instead, but let's be honest, that's just a mouthful. I understand the part with a trap word a bit better now as well and admit I thought it had less negative connotations and implied intent. Also feel free to leave this topic as needed. EDIT: As a side note, I remembered there are people in the community that use "trap" as a reduction of a character, namely FGO's Astolfo. And I always found that stupid. Sanya Juutilainen fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 13:58
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:The problem I have with your description is that I don't really think I am reducing a person per se. I am reducing a person in some outfit, so to me it's a description of looks. Just like the TGRS header says, it's not about you.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:00
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TIL not to post "it's a trap" as I just learned it has a meaning I as a non-native speaker would have never known e: please tell me "crab" is still a pretty cool and good word in this english language without any second meaning instead of a really cool animal? crabbe? crabbo?
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Feb 25, 2020 14:04
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Beet Wagon posted:By and large the forums have been moving away from the r word and a bunch of other stuff that used to get posted all the time, yeah. The running rule used to be that you take your chances posting slurs - you might get by if it's funny, but if it's not you might get smacked - but it's been becoming less acceptable for a while. what's wrong with calling someone a Citizen (capital c)
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Feb 25, 2020 14:07
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Admiral Ackbar would be banned.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:08
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C-Bangin' it 
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Anticheese posted:Just like the TGRS header says, it's not about you. Who then? Does somebody else decide what I think and whether it's negative or not? Or should I stop using all words, because some people find them offensive? Some people find offensive the word "female", because it's derived from the world "male" (and also for other connotations) and the same with "she", derived from "he" (no, really, there are active groups like that). Should we abandon those words here and turn the forums - and world - into a perfectly neutral robotic place?
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Feb 25, 2020 14:08
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Aertuun posted:This is what I find genuinely thought provoking. Sandweed posted:People don't choose to be born with downs but you choose to fund the dream. This isn't difficult. I think Beet Wagon in the post below yours captures the nuance of this situation very well. We have someone two posts above yours calling the backers "broken minded people" (not to pick on this specifically, it was a very good post overall). There are other examples in this thread of people calling backers "morons", "idiots", "suckers", "fools", etc. Whatever term you want to use, there are people here who believe the backers are "less smart" people, who are being exploited. Maybe by this they mean the backers are emotionally "less smart", or intellectually "less smart", or... I would say they're definitely being exploited, regardless of the intentions of those developing the Star Citizen game. I should point out here that I've done nothing to help the backers, I've simply been an observer. I don't think people choose to end up in a situation where they're being exploited; it goes against the very meaning of the word. I would normally think that in those situations, there is a wider responsibility by members of a common society to step in and help. Many people have tried to do that as best they can, as Beet Wagon pointed out. I just found it interesting how many different elements of discussion were colliding. The political climate in the US, the moderation and history of the forum, Star Citizen, the nature of authority and hypocrisy, the distinction between mental disorders and mental disadvantages, etc. Aertuun fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 14:09
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tuo posted:TIL not to post "it's a trap" as I just learned it has a meaning I as a non-native speaker would have never known I have bad news for you both in singular ("1. A person who does not want another person to succeed by showing the following actions: Disloyalty, Jealousy, Slander, Two-faced behavior. 2. A person who uses another for personal gain or self gratification.") and in plural ("Pesky pubic lice, that require treatment to remove, or they replicate and take over your entire crotch area.")
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Feb 25, 2020 14:10
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The last 2-3 pages have been v poor. Come on thread. Here, I'll start. https://i.imgur.com/T7BnSZu.mp4
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Feb 25, 2020 14:10
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Welcome to the
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No poo poo, wtf is going on here.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:12
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wow this discussion is definitely going to enact meaningful change that goes against society's zeitgeist good poo poo guys let's definitely keep this going for 5 pages more instead of posting stupid star citizen poo poo   3rd top post
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Feb 25, 2020 14:13
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Agreed
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Feb 25, 2020 14:14
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Thank you for explaining. I was hardly going to use the term to name people but I guess it's good to know to at least understand people's reactions to it. I'm actually in favor of the sentiment. Not to use terms offensive to people. For example, and with no sarcasm intended, I personally don't like it when people use the term "autistic" to describe idiots, or "cancer" to describe or wish upon groups people or singled out individuals who they hate for one reason or other. Or when people say "that person should kill himself" or anything along those lines. I have close experience with all of these subjects and they hurt when brought up in a hateful manner. There are probably more examples that elude me. I like to think I can distinguish whether the terms are used in a comedy context with no insulting intend towards the people those terms hurt, and I can accept them in that context. In my opinion it's rarely worth it to get stuck on and single out words when the general message it about something completely different. Also bad opinions or unfortunate language usage don't mean bad people necessarily. Beet Wagon posted:'Trap' when used to refer to transgender people has been considered pretty seriously offensive for a while, yeah. It wasn't meant to point out that you did a bad job or anything like that, though BW. I honestly was puzzled because as I was updating my ignore list (for whatever reason) I was prompted that I cannot ignore moderator users (which makes sense), and turns out it was because of ArfJason (who has been in my list since those Star Citizen posts-- nobody cares who is on my list, I know, but this is relevant to my point). I have been marginally aware of the existence of IK status, but did not know that it would appear as "Moderator" and would invalidate ignore status for someone browsing other parts of the forum (mainly Gaming, not FYAD).
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Feb 25, 2020 14:14
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:The problem I have with your description is that I don't really think I am reducing a person per se. I am reducing a person in some outfit, so to me it's a description of looks. Like, there's no trap when naked, it's literally impossible, meaning one person can be trap at some times and not at others. And I don't think that reducing an outfit/person combination to a word is wrong (like you can say: "Look at that red shirt" or "Call Ms. Silly Hat", because it's what makes them stand out) Anticheese is right, but I think maybe there's some value to expanding on why trap is bad. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the "gay panic defense" but there is also a thing called a "trans panic defense" which is a legal strategy used to defend people who murder trans people. The idea being that a trans person tricked (or 'trapped') them into a sexual encounter without telling them they were trans, which caused them to fly into a rage and/or go temporarily insane and murder them. It's a real thing that has really been used both in court and in the press/public to defend people who have murdered trans folks. The idea of someone being a "trap" obviously plays into that quite a bit, so I'm sure you can understand why people aren't real keen on that terminology. Anyway I hope this maybe helps a little bit. I'm gonna leave it here, but if you or anybody else has further questions feel free to PM me.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:15
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Inacio posted:wow this discussion is definitely going to enact meaningful change that goes against society's zeitgeist What is the last one? Is it a space tug boat, a news van, does it do science, or farming?
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Feb 25, 2020 14:15
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:Who then? Does somebody else decide what I think and whether it's negative or not? Or should I stop using all words, because some people find them offensive? Some people find offensive the word "female", because it's derived from the world "male" (and also for other connotations) and the same with "she", derived from "he" (no, really, there are active groups like that). Should we abandon those words here and turn the forums - and world - into a perfectly neutral robotic place? Yes these are all very valid points. I recommend you make a YouTube video about it. No one has ever had these thoughts before you, and no one has ever responded to them before. The engagement will be massive and you will make millions of redpills I mean views.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:15
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:The problem I have with your description is that I don't really think I am reducing a person per se. I am reducing a person in some outfit, so to me it's a description of looks. This does not make it better. This is, in fact, backing up everything we have been trying to say. You are reducing a person. Who cares how they are dressed? It is not about you. Do not do it here in Games. Colostomy Bag posted:Admiral Ackbar would be banned. No.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:18
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also one of the top posts:  500 years etc rear end and sci-fi.This deeply pleases my brain. Likewise~ I'd play female characters more often, but I get too distracted :v Can't really use 3rd person camera in this game because of that ! xD (yikes)
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Feb 25, 2020 14:19
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commando in tophat posted:What is the last one? Is it a space tug boat, a news van, does it do science, or farming? 
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Feb 25, 2020 14:20
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AbstractNapper posted:It wasn't meant to point out that you did a bad job or anything like that, though BW. No worries! I just figured I'd cover my bases in case anyone wanted to drag me into the public square haha! Generally I tended to not probate for that stuff but to just pop in and be like "hey folks, find another word" but even then I missed a lot, I'm sure. tuo posted:TIL not to post "it's a trap" as I just learned it has a meaning I as a non-native speaker would have never known cranmb
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Feb 25, 2020 14:20
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Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences, easy. You can use the bad word but you get smacked with a stick. And we don't "rescue" Citizens. They don't want to be rescued. Hell, they extremely don't want to be rescued by neither us, or CIG. They are perfectly happy in the state of dream they are in and anything we or CIG do to move them from that will be harmful to them. Either way they will realize that their money was misplaced and misused. The backers have chosen to put their money towards this dream and they live in it. It's not that they don't deserve "rescue" but there's no good way to do it.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:26
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AbstractNapper posted:I'm actually in favor of the sentiment. Not to use terms offensive to people. I agree with your post in general. But I disagree in one thing - you shouldn't use terms that are offensive to particular people, not pre-emptively. For example I agree with your sentiment regarding "cancer" and its overusage - I lost my dad to cancer and it isn't a great thing to be reminded of it. But I won't stop anyone from saying it. They can use it, they can "cancer" 24/7 when I am not there, whatever. Only if I am there and it seems to be going out of control, I ask them to tone it down - and either they tone it down or I leave the channel / premises, works out both ways. In similar way, if someone asked me to not say about them that they are trap, I'd agree (it's not like I use it for real people that much anyway). And if they asked for me to not use it regarding everything, I'd probably apologized and explained I couldn't, but I'd try when they are around. EDIT side note: In real life, I try to avoid words that are offensive to basically everyone, if it doesn't seem that way from the post. In fact I'd bet I use less vulgarities than majority of the thread. Beet Wagon posted:Anticheese is right, but I think maybe there's some value to expanding on why trap is bad. Thanks for the extra insight, seriously. I think I might've heard of this, but only vaguely at best, so it indeed helps.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:36
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Feb 25, 2020 14:40
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:But I won't stop anyone from saying it. They can use it, they can "cancer" 24/7 when I am not there, whatever. Only if I am there and it seems to be going out of control, I ask them to tone it down - and either they tone it down or I leave the channel / premises, works out both ways.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:43
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FOIP working real good
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Feb 25, 2020 14:44
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That photo is offensive and makes light of those with Sunflower Syndrome. quote:Sunflower Syndrome describes reflex seizures – typically eyelid myoclonia with or without absence seizures – triggered when patients wave their hands in front of the sun https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6051521/ (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 25, 2020 14:44
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Inacio posted:wow this discussion is definitely going to enact meaningful change that goes against society's zeitgeist
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Feb 25, 2020 14:45
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Dwesa posted:as if any of those ships will be ever shipped together with exploration/medical/salvage/whatever gameplay. what is there to explore anyway? what medical gameplay? what for if the most deadly opponents in this game are bugs and problems are solved by suiciding? 
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Feb 25, 2020 14:51
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Feb 25, 2020 14:52
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:I agree with your post in general. But I disagree in one thing - you shouldn't use terms that are offensive to particular people, not pre-emptively. 1. You don't know who is reading when you post on the internet. 2. You also can't know details of people around you all the time not should it be expected that people have to reveal intimate/personal details to you so you don't happen to slur them. 3. Selectively just not calling people by slur names when they are not around is just as bad, your attitude to that person or group of people is as much the problem. 4. You saying you would just ask people to stop and then leave the area speaks to a privilege and a strange attitude, do you think a trans person should have to say in public to a possibly aggressive person or group of people "please stop calling me a trap" and just leave wherever they happen to be say in a bar or a restaurant if that outcome doesn't occur? 5. Why should someone have to ask you not use an objectively offensive term about them? Referring to any person as a "trap" is objectively offensive. The word used in the correct context is of course fine, language is mostly about context. jarlywarly fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 14:52
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Inacio posted:i've never seen a Citizen's take on this/their 6mi mansion To add to the "he was rich before" angle: He deserved it because he is the CEO of a 500+ people company. In general, citizens don't seem to concern themselves with the exorbitant waste omnipresent at CIG. A few millions here and there, so what?
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Feb 25, 2020 14:53
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jarlywarly posted:1. You don't know who is reading when you post on the internet. This puts it better than I could, thank you for this post. To everyone else, this is the last post on the matter. Do not use slurs here in the Star Citizen thread. Do not post about the fact that you can no longer use slurs. Just talk about star citizen.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:01
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Your selfabsolving skills need some work it seems
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Feb 25, 2020 15:03
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VideoGames posted:Just talk about star citizen. Sadly this is what got us here, there really isn't much to talk about Star Citizen.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:05
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Inacio posted:also one of the top posts: Cracking myself up picturing Chris micromanaging the art design on female player character butts. (Because you just know that’s happened.)
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Feb 25, 2020 15:23
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No Mods, No masters. Apparently we’ve come a long way since mid to late 2019. Edit: waiting for the inevitable butt-slider because of the unrealistic expectations of developers body-shaming active military.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:24
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:I agree with your post in general. But I disagree in one thing - you shouldn't use terms that are offensive to particular people, not pre-emptively. You are being a real Roberts right now.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:26
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Colostomy Bag posted:Sadly this is what got us here, there really isn't much to talk about Star Citizen. Looking at your avatar, I dimly seem to recall there was a dude on the star citizen videos long time ago with a hat that said "C-money" am I misremembering things?
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Feb 25, 2020 15:28
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