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Tighclops posted:I get what he's saying but I can't be the only person that read that whole thing and got douche chills The man could have easily ignored every criticism and refused to discuss the fanbase’s concerns just like nearly every other showrunner in Trek history, but yeah no, let’s just go ahead and assume he’s a douchebag after acknowledging fan issues and thoughtfully laying out his reasoning for those choices.
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Feb 25, 2020 23:50
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I don’t even know what about that is supposed to be douchey
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Feb 25, 2020 23:54
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The man could have easily ignored every criticism and refused to discuss the fanbase’s concerns just like nearly every other showrunner in Trek history, but yeah no, let’s just go ahead and assume he’s a douchebag after acknowledging fan issues and thoughtfully laying out his reasoning for those choices. And that's why there's incest twins and not because game of thrones did it. Because there's thoughtful thematic reasons and what hahaha "Would you buy a book called the suggestions of acquisition?" I probably should have been more diplomatic in my choice of words, I don't literally think the guy's a douche but having seen the show so far I think that maybe not being Rick Berman is a low bar to clear
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Feb 25, 2020 23:57
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Tighclops posted:I get what he's saying but I can't be the only person that read that whole thing and got douche chills I think you might be.
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Feb 26, 2020 00:55
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zoux posted:I don’t even know what about that is supposed to be douchey I really wouldn't waste the time trying to understand it. Moronic white noise posts are Tighclops' stock-in-trade.
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Feb 26, 2020 01:45
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I really wouldn't waste the time trying to understand it. Moronic white noise posts are Tighclops' stock-in-trade. 
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Feb 26, 2020 01:54
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I like Disco, but I still wonder if Fuller’s The Cage-inspired aesthetic and anthology structured version of the show would have been better or worse. I really feel the three Fuller-penned scripts of Discovery ended up being a millstone around its neck that it took a whole season to properly exorcise. Episode three, the first time we actually saw the Discovery and met most of the regular cast, was a particular problem, painting a far darker image of Starfleet and the Federation than anything in Picard. Everyone's a jerk for no reason, prison labor, and a general theme that Burnham is being unfairly made a pariah for making the Hard But Necessary Decisions. Based on those scripts, I really think we dodged a bullet when Fuller was let go.
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Feb 26, 2020 03:44
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Angry Salami posted:I really feel the three Fuller-penned scripts of Discovery ended up being a millstone around its neck that it took a whole season to properly exorcise. Episode three, the first time we actually saw the Discovery and met most of the regular cast, was a particular problem, painting a far darker image of Starfleet and the Federation than anything in Picard. Everyone's a jerk for no reason, prison labor, and a general theme that Burnham is being unfairly made a pariah for making the Hard But Necessary Decisions. They were heavily rewritten though?
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Feb 26, 2020 03:47
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okay so i finally looked up just a clip of the orville because picard blows and star trek isn't coming back at least for a good long while so i watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOIPwKM7vM0 yep, this is a star trek fan show all right. i have no context for anything at all in this show except this, but this idea of putting humans in a zoo, total star trek and afaik, not been done. looks like a fun episode. also there is some 'we humans used to imprison animals in a zoo.....in the bad old days' stuff. so like. i guess i'm gonna watch the orville now. seth macfarlane was a powerful deterrent but as long as he doesn't try to be funny too often i will tolerate him until i inevitably start to like him if the show is good.
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Feb 26, 2020 03:51
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Open Source Idiom posted:They were heavily rewritten though? The first episode of Discovery is essentially Fuller's in its entirety, while the second was basically half Fuller and half Berg / Harberts. Berg and Harberts said from the beginning that they considered episodes three and four of the season to be "their" pilot of the show, which is why they were able to convince CBS to pay for an extra two episodes for that season (15 from 13).
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Feb 26, 2020 04:02
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Angry Salami posted:Episode three, the first time we actually saw the Discovery and met most of the regular cast, was a particular problem, painting a far darker image of Starfleet and the Federation than anything in Picard. Everyone's a jerk for no reason, prison labor, and a general theme that Burnham is being unfairly made a pariah for making the Hard But Necessary Decisions. It's a ship being run as a black ops warship by a captain from the mirror universe, what exactly do you think the atmosphere on board it should have been? In that very episode Burnham and even the other prisoners brought on board with her immediately recognize something is wrong.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:08
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large_gourd posted:yep, this is a star trek fan show all right. i have no context for anything at all in this show except this, but this idea of putting humans in a zoo, total star trek and afaik, not been done. looks like a fun episode. also there is some 'we humans used to imprison animals in a zoo.....in the bad old days' stuff. Literally an episode of the animated series. Most of season 1 of The Orville are just rehashed versions of old Star Trek plots.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:14
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“Humans in a zoo” is also a big part of the first ever Star Trek pilot.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:15
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well i stand corrected. never watch TAS, and only like half of TOS - not big on it really. and actually i'm fine with some rehashes anyway. this is like, show to watch before bed stuff i'm after.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:17
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Angry Salami posted:I really feel the three Fuller-penned scripts of Discovery ended up being a millstone around its neck that it took a whole season to properly exorcise. Episode three, the first time we actually saw the Discovery and met most of the regular cast, was a particular problem, painting a far darker image of Starfleet and the Federation than anything in Picard. Everyone's a jerk for no reason, prison labor, and a general theme that Burnham is being unfairly made a pariah for making the Hard But Necessary Decisions. I would say that episode two is where things start getting weird. Like, I'm not hugely comfortable with the whole "the Federation are jerks now" hot take Picard is running with but in the second episode of Discovery Burnham gets sentenced to life by a council of literally-cloaked-in-shadows superior officers right out of Dystopian YA Lit 101. It's kind of amazing that somebody thought that was a good idea and ran with it.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:19
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large_gourd posted:well i stand corrected. never watch TAS, and only like half of TOS - not big on it really. and actually i'm fine with some rehashes anyway. this is like, show to watch before bed stuff i'm after. Yeah, The Orville’s not bad and the second season is a huge improvement, but parts of it really just feel like Seth smashing random TNG/TOS/VOY A and B plots together. It’s much better when it tries to do its own thing. I don’t consider it “the one true Trek” like some people, but I definitely dig it and I want to see it run for 7 seasons just to see how good it can get. ed: One thing I will give kudos to Orville for is consistently knocking it out of the park with guest stars. Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 04:20
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Big Mean Jerk posted:ed: One thing I will give kudos to Orville for is consistently knocking it out of the park with guest stars. Also, the music.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:26
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Timby posted:Also, the music. Oh god yeah, I almost forgot. The music is phenomenal, to the point where I never skip the intro theme on rewatch. That’s the one thing I don’t mind the show aping from TNG because none of Jeff Russo’s Disco/Picard work screams “Star Trek” to me.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:28
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Timby posted:The first episode of Discovery is essentially Fuller's in its entirety, while the second was basically half Fuller and half Berg / Harberts. Berg and Harberts said from the beginning that they considered episodes three and four of the season to be "their" pilot of the show, which is why they were able to convince CBS to pay for an extra two episodes for that season (15 from 13). I've not read that, to be fair, but I'm still a little confused as to what Akiva Goldsman's role was? He's credited for the teleplay, along with Fuller, and Alex Kurztman has a "story by" credit as well. Fuller's not credited for the teleplay for either of his other two "story by" credits either, so I suspect very little of his work made it into the final episode tbh. Mal-3 posted:I would say that episode two is where things start getting weird. Like, I'm not hugely comfortable with the whole "the Federation are jerks now" hot take Picard is running with but in the second episode of Discovery Burnham gets sentenced to life by a council of literally-cloaked-in-shadows superior officers right out of Dystopian YA Lit 101. It's kind of amazing that somebody thought that was a good idea and ran with it. FWIW, that was episode three? But yeah, it's still off. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 04:29
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I think Fuller gets way too much blame for Discovery. The line that always sticks out to me as just dumb from the series is the episode where they come back from the mirror universe and they are like "oh no the entire federation has been destroyed" and the next episode its like lost 25% of its territory, the obvious bullshit for drama and immediate rollback just felt cheap. Like nothing in Discovery can just be minor it all has to be galaxy ending or the best thing ever, like that device they threw together in 5 minutes that harnessed what was it every black hole in the galaxy?
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Feb 26, 2020 04:38
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Picard: [shouting, shaking] stop killing people! Every other character: lol no
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Feb 26, 2020 04:40
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I like The Orville a lot but it definitely feels like it's taking a bit much from the TNG-ish shows. It does feel to me a lot like how people talk about the first couple of seasons for the other shows (i.e. TNG) though. That there's a good premise in there, and some good moments flirting with you, but it's not quite there yet and they're still trying to figure out what doesn't quite work. I am optimistic that they'll continue improving in season 3 and find their rhythm more, growing up in to its own show. The directing needs a lot of improvement however, especially with some of the outdoor shoots they do, but the bigger-story writing and stuff onboard the ship is going great I think. I've only seen a tiny bit (1.5 episodes) of disco so I don't have an accurate picture of that show, but I didn't get that same feeling from the show, I can't see it changing to the point where I think it's enjoyable at all. Picard's alright. piratepilates fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 04:41
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Open Source Idiom posted:FWIW, that was episode three? But yeah, it's still off. No, it's at the very end of episode two. I double-checked 'cos I wasn't sure if I had remembered that right or if my memory was exaggerating poo poo, and there it was.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:44
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Shut up about this dumb nerd poo poo and watch Sir Patrick Stewart answering the internet's asinine questions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdLj_8Bo4yo
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Feb 26, 2020 04:55
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Mal-3 posted:No, it's at the very end of episode two. I double-checked 'cos I wasn't sure if I had remembered that right or if my memory was exaggerating poo poo, and there it was. Huh, thanks. I guess I watched them together and they must have blurred.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:57
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Oh god yeah, I almost forgot. The music is phenomenal, to the point where I never skip the intro theme on rewatch. That’s the one thing I don’t mind the show aping from TNG because none of Jeff Russo’s Disco/Picard work screams “Star Trek” to me. You can really see the unabashed glee in Seth's eyes when the orchestra plays in the Isaac/Claire romance episode
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Feb 26, 2020 05:03
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Open Source Idiom posted:I've not read that, to be fair, but I'm still a little confused as to what Akiva Goldsman's role was? He's credited for the teleplay, along with Fuller, and Alex Kurztman has a "story by" credit as well. Goldsman was brought on as an executive producer after CBS started getting cold feet about Fuller, and then he was hired to shepherd the writers' room after Fuller got fired (because he had only produced two scripts in like two years, and a broad outline for the rest of the season). Basically the way Discovery's first three episodes went: 1) Almost 100 percent Fuller 2) Goldsman and Kurtzman and Berg and Harberts rewriting Fuller's second script pretty heavily 3) Fuller getting a "story by" credit on episode 3 because they had to dig out from Fuller's moronic "Burnham is a traitor" plotline.
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Feb 26, 2020 05:16
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I always thought the Fuller setup had potential, even if it had some big holes in the logic of the war/treason storyline. I definitely like it better than most everything that came after it in season 1.
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Feb 26, 2020 06:06
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Snow Cone Capone posted:You can really see the unabashed glee in Seth's eyes when the orchestra plays in the Isaac/Claire romance episode It was a real full orchestra that they brought in, Seth insisted.
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Feb 26, 2020 07:39
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I just binged all 5 episodes of Picard and I feel like it hasn’t really gotten started yet. Oh well, I like the sights and sounds.
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Feb 26, 2020 07:53
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In the new Picard Countdown comic series, the post-Picard captain of the Enterprise E is Worf.
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Feb 26, 2020 08:17
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Peachfart posted:It was a real full orchestra that they brought in, Seth insisted. Yeah. I don't use "delightful" often but it fits for that scene tbh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awuAT2G6kQA e: apparently it's the same orchestra that does all the music on the show. Imagine being part of an orchestra and you get to go on a TV show and perform in full alien prosthetics!
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Feb 26, 2020 08:28
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socialsecurity posted:I think Fuller gets way too much blame for Discovery. The line that always sticks out to me as just dumb from the series is the episode where they come back from the mirror universe and they are like "oh no the entire federation has been destroyed" and the next episode its like lost 25% of its territory, the obvious bullshit for drama and immediate rollback just felt cheap. Like nothing in Discovery can just be minor it all has to be galaxy ending or the best thing ever, like that device they threw together in 5 minutes that harnessed what was it every black hole in the galaxy? The entire Klingon war was just awful and it's the premise the entire series hinges on.
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Feb 26, 2020 09:23
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Gonz posted:In the new Picard Countdown comic series, the post-Picard captain of the Enterprise E is Worf. Americas have it so cool with all the comics, AfterTreks, conventions. I reee every time I'm reminded about it.
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Feb 26, 2020 09:40
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Duckula posted:The entire Klingon war was just awful and it's the premise the entire series hinges on. The premise and the idea of following a cashiered officer during it isn't a bad idea. Just, yknow the execution was a bit balls. Remember the first trailer? I really thought it was going to have two captains and ships featured predominantly (and they're Michelle Yeoh and Jason Isaacs? Hell yeah!) with a young junior officer caught in conflicting loyalties between their radically different approaches. Like they'd both have merits in a classic moral dilemma situation. Something we'd never really seen before. It's a pretty good trailer (music and empty trailer speeches aside) for different show. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 09:46
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I think they should have stuck with Fuller and let him have his try. By bottling it they left us with a worst of both worlds situation for Discovery. And really, Star Trek needs at least one series made by a high quality modern showrunner with a singular vision and ability to realise it. Lest we forever be stuck in the twilight lands of sixth generation pirated VHS plotlines (Orville) and shows struggling not to drown in the storytelling grey water that is the Kurtzmen & Berman styles. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 13:41
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But the Orville is just like tv when I was young and my parents only hated me a little bit. We need to go back. We need to go back to when story,Ines were ‘what if Aliens were racist’ and ‘what if a robot had a dick’ and my favourite ‘what if that robot had dreams about stabbing the ships counsellor in the form of a cake’.
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Feb 26, 2020 15:15
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It was a peptide cake
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Feb 26, 2020 15:28
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Regarde Aduck posted:But the Orville is just like tv when I was young and my parents only hated me a little bit. We need to go back. We need to go back to when story,Ines were ‘what if Aliens were racist’ and ‘what if a robot had a dick’ and my favourite ‘what if that robot had dreams about stabbing the ships counsellor in the form of a cake’. This is a weirdly reductive take on The Orville
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Feb 26, 2020 15:32
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I quite like the Orville but it is absolutely and intentionally a TNG pastiche, which I don't have a problem with at all, because I loved TNG. Seth loves it too and you can tell, and that sincerity of it is part of the appeal. It makes sense why people who were hoping new Star Treks would be more like the older series would prefer it to the newer ones.
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Feb 26, 2020 15:38
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