|
euphronius posted:I have the dune ebook if you want me to quote something.
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:36 |
|
|
Oh the encyclopedia. I misunderstood.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
I think it's mentioned that the Sisterhood and maybe a few others know where Earth is (because of their engrammed memories) but that it's no longer life-sustaining. And yeah, what D. Ebdrup said, the year of Dune I always thought to be somewhere about 20,000 years from now. Far enough that there'd be all sorts of crazy changes to how we do things, but close enough that the characters are still recognizably human.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 18:20
|
|
|
D. Ebdrup posted:I have them too. Dune Encyclopedia, to my knowledge, has never been released as an OCR'd ebook, though? I have the OCR's version (allegedly)
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 18:21
|
|
|
There was a house built where there wasn't yet an official road, and someone at the town records office wrote NOROAD on the map where their dirt path was and over time NOROAD became official. Not "No Road". NOROAD.  This is a dumb naming thing but also a dumb Dune thing because of No-ships and whatnot
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 18:33
|
|
|
Anne Frank Funk posted:I have the OCR's version (allegedly) The Bloop posted:There was a house built where there wasn't yet an official road, and someone at the town records office wrote NOROAD on the map where their dirt path was and over time NOROAD became official. Presumably it's of Ixian origin, since they use one to breed Hwi Noree? Frank describes it as a form of mimicry so it's not bizarre that it would be hard to discover for that long, but it's the sort of plot device that has enough uses that it's hard to imagine it not being used again. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Feb 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 20:01
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:There was a house built where there wasn't yet an official road, and someone at the town records office wrote NOROAD on the map where their dirt path was and over time NOROAD became official. The cops can't see you if you ride the NOROAD.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 20:15
|
|
|
Oh, I forgot. Dune Encyclopedia makes it clear that Dune is set in an alternative history where the Roman Empire is described as conquering the entire known world, even China. Also  to Anne Frank Funk for not doing what I said not to.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 20:38
|
|
|
D. Ebdrup posted:Oh, I forgot. Dune Encyclopedia makes it clear that Dune is set in an alternative history where the Roman Empire is described as conquering the entire known world, even China. Hang on, what!? I need more information.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
This thread rules.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 21:53
|
|
|
Tree Bucket posted:Hang on, what!? I need more information.   
BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:12
|
|
|
I don’t think it’s literally an alternate history as much as things being distorted over the decamillenia. There’s mentions of “the house of Washington” using atom bombs in a “provincial conflict” elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:14
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:I don’t think it’s literally an alternate history as much as things being distorted over the decamillenia. There’s mentions of “the house of Washington” using atom bombs in a “provincial conflict” elsewhere. Given that the encyclopedia exists in-universe during the Famine Times/Scattering(?) and is compiled after Leto IIs death, and considering how fixated he was on getting history accurate, I don't think it'd be that distorted?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
Yeah the point that is that “modern” history has been misinterpreted as being a simple continuation of the Roman Empire. (There’s also at least one error in the timeline, the “Battle of Englichannel” should be 357 years before the first atomic strike, not 257).
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:21
|
|
|
D. Ebdrup posted:Roman Empire conquering the known world including China seems pretty alternative history to me. It says “except for China” which “resists until 14440” which maps to China being divvied up in the 1800’s.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:21
|
|
|
skasion posted:Yeah the point that is that “modern” history has been misinterpreted as being a simple continuation of the Roman Empire. (There’s also at least one error in the timeline, the “Battle of Englichannel” should be 357 years before the first atomic strike, not 257). Ugly In The Morning posted:It says “except for China” which “resists until 14440” which maps to China being divvied up in the 1800’s. It also makes the whole "Atreides descended from ancient civilizations" that Paul and/or Leto II mentions a lot more believable, if you ask me. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:23
|
|
|
It’s a reference to the (historical) domination of China by European powers starting in the 19th century. Like the other stuff on the timeline up to 1945, you’re supposed to recognize actual events that future historians have a hilariously out-of-whack interpretation of, because they themselves are pushing the ideology that their own empire is the latest in a great chain of imperial being stretching back to Alexander the Great.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
D. Ebdrup posted:Given that the encyclopedia exists in-universe during the Famine Times/Scattering(?) and is compiled after Leto IIs death, and considering how fixated he was on getting history accurate, I don't think it'd be that distorted? It was published nearly 2000 years after Leto's death, by its own timeline, which is plenty of time for history to get distorted, especially after events called THE FAMINE TIMES and THE SCATTERING
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 22:58
|
|
|
D. Ebdrup posted:I get that, my point is that in this alternative history, "modern" history was a continuation of the Roman Empire and that that changed remarkably fewer things than one would expect; it's part of what makes it science fiction rather than fantasy, in a way. Yeah this is definitely normal history, the joke is it's seen through a western lens. Rome was the center of the world, China was somewhere else but Rome doesn't know nor care. An eastern view may have the Middle Kingdom discussing selling their silk through intermediaries and vague mention of a roman kingdom.. As mentioned you can track normal history through the "seat of power" from the defeat of the Spanish Armada to WWII. It's not that there was a planetwide empire, but that's the best they can develop and explain in their current context after ten thousand years of history. Kind of like how schoolchildren today get a simplified view of history. You learn "Americans won WW2" then look at where the Germans sent most of their army. The American campaign was a drop in the bucket compared to Russia by scale. We don't know thing even a few thousand years ago like the sea peoples, I can't imagine the drift with a ten times larger scale
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
^^^^^Edit: the sea peoples weren't a unified entity, and are most likely an artefact of Egyptians freaking out about people who could attack the Nile with impunity from the sea, where they had previously only faced terrestrial enemies. They didn't single handedly cause the Bronze Age 'collapse', and it's an idea that needs to die.skasion posted:It’s a reference to the (historical) domination of China by European powers starting in the 19th century. Like the other stuff on the timeline up to 1945, you’re supposed to recognize actual events that future historians have a hilariously out-of-whack interpretation of, because they themselves are pushing the ideology that their own empire is the latest in a great chain of imperial being stretching back to Alexander the Great. Yeah it's this, as an in-universe book. Vlex fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Feb 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:07
|
|
|
Also pfft referenced the puny Macedonian empire and not the xiongnu empire or any of the caliphates. Worse, no mention at all of the finno-korean hyper war.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:14
|
|
|
Vlex posted:^^^^^Edit: the sea peoples weren't a unified entity, and are most likely an artefact of Egyptians freaking out about people who could attack the Nile with impunity from the sea, where they had previously only faced terrestrial enemies. They didn't single handedly cause the Bronze Age 'collapse', and it's an idea that needs to die. No I agree, and that's the point. There was obviously some (or several) real cultures/kingdoms out there, but since they weren't historically super important other than a few allusions it's like they never existed. Much like these (fake) historians understandably don't give a poo poo between these two groups separated by only a few hundred miles on a single planet. They don't see those as independent states. Depending on modern record keeping I can see that kind of knowledge being lost over a few thousand years, especially when you count stuff like the evacuation of the whole planet Earth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:15
|
|
|
I get the joke, people - no need to jump down my throat about it. I just think it's more interesting to think of it as alternative history. Denmark once had its own empire which is not mentioned anywhere in Dune, so I think it makes more sense that it's alternative history where vikings and the traders and women they brought with them didn't arrive in Great Vineland (known to the modern world as United States), traveled and traded regularily with places as far away as Persia, and existed in many other places around the world including most of Britain as well as all of Scandinavia and quite a number of islands as well as admittedly small parts of Africa and India. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Feb 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:18
|
|
|
skasion posted:It’s a reference to the (historical) domination of China by European powers starting in the 19th century. Like the other stuff on the timeline up to 1945, you’re supposed to recognize actual events that future historians have a hilariously out-of-whack interpretation of, because they themselves are pushing the ideology that their own empire is the latest in a great chain of imperial being stretching back to Alexander the Great.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:29
|
|
|
I guess I disagree that an alternative history adds anything at all to dune, it's not really echoed in any aspects or themes of the books.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I guess I disagree that an alternative history adds anything at all to dune, it's not really echoed in any aspects or themes of the books.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:53
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I guess I disagree that an alternative history adds anything at all to dune, it's not really echoed in any aspects or themes of the books. Until Tarantino directs God Emperor and Brad Pitt Duncan carves the Atreides hawk into Leto II’s forehead
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2020 23:53
|
|
|
One aspect is doesn't Paul claim his other memory goes back to Alexander or something
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 00:13
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:One aspect is doesn't Paul claim his other memory goes back to Alexander or something Agamemnon. Who was the son of King Atreus, which is where the whole atreides thing comes from.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 00:21
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:Agamemnon. Who was the son of King Atreus, which is where the whole atreides thing comes from.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 00:25
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:Agamemnon. Who was the son of King Atreus, which is where the whole atreides thing comes from. Yeah, it's neat attempt at myth building, but weird, because Cassandra was the one who could see the future, but she never actually had children with Agamemnon. And his son Orestes technically lifts the curse on the house of Atreus. Electra, his sister, also has some neat parallels with Alia.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 00:40
|
|
|
Cheesus posted:Do not read the failsons retcon on this. I read Butlerian Jihad when it came out and it was the dumbest fuckin’ retcon. I put up with the House prequels but that one was a step over the line. Gave up on the prequels after that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 01:17
|
|
|
I'm annoyed that "7000 year old cyborg-savant in cometary orbit dispensing world-shattering technologies until killed by religious ideologues" was thrown out in favor of...the KJA trashfires. This is a very Herbertian idea.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:I don’t think it’s literally an alternate history as much as things being distorted over the decamillenia. There’s mentions of “the house of Washington” using atom bombs in a “provincial conflict” elsewhere. Now Showing
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 02:32
|
|
|
Agamemnon d’Atreides
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 03:15
|
|
|
Hah, that's great. I love that idea of people who are used to thinking in terms of a galaxy-wide empire grappling with the idea that you could divide a planet into multiple sovereign entities. "battle of englichannel" is great too. "Ceres gains imperial seat after planetoid strikes earth" is nice and ominous. "Oh look, we've got control of planetoids now! oopsy doodle, one is headed for earth! Ouchies!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 04:50
|
|
|
for whatever reason THE CROMPTON RUINS is hilarious to me. I have no idea what it even is but I just imagine them finding Compton and diving some sort of ancient terran mythology from it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 04:58
|
|
|
The Ancient Empire of Tu’Pac and his loyal canine Snoop. The Knights of Suge
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 04:58
|
|
|
It's a very common thing in sci-fi that after thousands of years and various cataclysms and ideological throwbacks that the history of Earth is distorted at best, and even if there's people who DO know the history the common view is about as accurate as most people's knowledge of history that comes from pop culture. Like how people think that Atlantis, King Arthur and Robin Hood were real when all of them were explicitly fictional.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 05:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:36 |
|
|
The thing about Atreides descending from the ancient empires doesn't come from the non-existent writings of the failson; it's from GEoD as that book references Ashurnasirpal as the guardian that Leto II selects to avoid being possessed (by a more malignant personality, at any rate), and that was the name of a couple of kings of Assyria around 1000 B.C.
BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Feb 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 13:17
|
|