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gently caress it, ride or die. I’m with you to the end, chitoryu12.
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Feb 14, 2020 03:50
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Like, I'm going to be honest. I'm a person who enjoys garbage fire characters and interestingly mutually toxic relationships in fiction. I like healthy and well-balanced stuff, too, but there's something about a good disaster that can be just so satisfying. You can argue that's romanticizing or normalizing abuse, but I think as long as everything is clearly warned for, and the author knows that what they're writing isn't ideal but is using the conflict to advance the plot and be exciting, that's not the case. After all, if fictional characters were all great interpersonal communicators, a lot of plots just wouldn't happen! This is not what that scene was. That seen was an in-depth yet pg sexual assault where the victim immediately started blaming herself and where it was marketed to teenagers as an interesting and desirable love triangle, and proof that Bella is in love with Jacob. It also wasn't just an author cynically cashing in on a problematic romance genre trope with the knowledge that it's not good and normal, because she doesn't seem to think Jacob is manipulative. Using threats of suicide and self-harm to control a romantic partner is a pretty common and serious abuser tactic, and using those threats to coerce someone into a romantic and physical encounter is... monstrous.
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Feb 14, 2020 07:25
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I feel like a decent editor shouldn't have allowed this to get past the draft stage, but that's true of most of the drat book. How is poo poo like this a best seller while far more talented writers are ignored? I'm here as long as I end up more angry than uncomfortable by the chapter. If I do have to take a break, though, I'll try to come back.
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Feb 14, 2020 07:39
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Midjack posted:gently caress it, ride or die. I’m with you to the end, chitoryu12. Yeah! yeah... 
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Feb 14, 2020 14:47
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 Edit 2: Fixed my crop tool! Lord Zedd-Repulsa fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 00:58
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Feb 16, 2020 18:06
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Chapter 24: Snap Decisionquote:I lay facedown across the sleeping bag, waiting for justice to find me. Maybe an avalanche would bury me here. I wished it would. I never wanted to have to see my face in the mirror again. Oof. quote:“Where’s Jacob?” Your disgrace at being a sexual assault victim? quote:Edward was silent for a long moment. “Oh,” he finally said. Threatening suicide to get someone to kiss you isn't cunning! That's like, the first resort these dickheads use in real life! quote:“Edward,” I whispered to the rough nylon. “I… I… I’m—” Just in case you had any inkling of anything else, that's Edward confirming right there how goddamn awful Jacob is. quote:Edward laughed softly again. “You’re such a bad liar, you’ll believe anyone who has the least bit of skill.” Jesus Christ. quote:I closed my eyes and shook my head in agony. The sharp nylon fibers of the tent floor scraped against my skin. Sharp...nylon? quote:“You’re only human,” he whispered, stroking my hair again. Once again, we get a scene of two people blaming themselves and fighting over who gets to feel the most miserable about this. quote:“What would you like me to say?” If I roll my eyes more, they're going to give me powered flight. quote:He was silent for a moment, and I sensed a charge in the atmosphere, a new urgency. She's decided what part she wants. quote:“Dammit, stop that!” I shouted at him. One of the other things that makes this so frustrating is that the adult in the room is always shifting. Meyer is trying to write well-rounded characters, but she's incapable of adding complexity and flaws in subtle and understandable ways. When someone displays negative behavior or makes a wrong choice, it's always to an extreme degree: fighting, screaming, threats of suicide or murder, self-harm, etc. Characters who were previously reasonable and ordinary suddenly become assholes when it's necessary for conflict, from Charlie practically high-fiving Jacob for sexual assault (before then saying it was wrong) to Mike going from an ordinary nice guy to a grumbling jealous loser to Jacob becoming a violent rapist out of loving nowhere. When Bella and Edward are having a disagreement, it's always one person being reasonable and mature and the other one being a self-destructive lunatic getting talked off a ledge. When it's time for someone else to be in the right, they switch roles. There's no nuance to make you feel like these are believable characters, just a cast of schizophrenic sociopaths. quote:I didn’t wait for him to decide—or to have the chance to tell me he wasn’t interested in a cruel, faithless monster like me. I pulled myself against him and crushed my mouth to his snow-cold lips. Bella Swan, the girl who never had a single sexual thought her entire life, is now having the entire backlog come out in one weekend. quote:“Perhaps this isn’t the best moment for that,” he suggested, too calm for my liking. "Not just the werewolf thing. You haven't showered in two days and were sleeping outdoors in a sweaty tent." quote:“Fourthly,” he murmured, dropping his face so that he was whispering in my ear. “We will try, Bella. I’ll make good on my promise. But I’d much rather it wasn’t in reaction to Jacob Black.” Seth has experienced every moment of this and is very uncomfortable. quote:My body stiffened to the sound. I didn’t realize my left hand was clenched into a fist, nails biting into my bandaged palm, until Edward took it and gently smoothed my fingers out. I'd like that a lot more than what we got. quote:“Alice is so small,” I moaned. All right, action scene! We're nowhere near it, but I'm sure SMeyer will find a great way to convey it to us! quote:Suddenly he looked down at me. “Breathe, Bella.” Or we could just get him narrating the action. Sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiMIHXXaapc As usual, the movie actually shows us everything. The fight choreography is greatly improved from the slow, floaty fight with James at the end of Twilight and takes advantage of the vampires' unique cellular structure to have some shockingly gruesome deaths for a PG-13 movie. It really shows off what the story would be capable of in the hands of a competent writer. quote:The sudden absence of sound was the only warning. For someone who keeps trying to write Bella as selfless, Meyer sure keeps writing the most selfish inner monologue possible. quote:So quickly that I wasn’t exactly sure how it happened, I was on my feet and the tent was collapsing in ragged shreds around me. Had Edward ripped our way out? Why? Causing immediate whiplash? quote:I found myself with my back pressed against the sheer cliff face. Edward stood in front of me, holding a posture that I knew at once. No poo poo!
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Feb 17, 2020 17:49
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quote:She was close enough that he could hear her thoughts. What the hell are you talking about? Do you think he's just going to throw you to Victoria and run? quote:I was so glad he’d sent Seth away. Of course, there was no one Seth could run to for help. Victoria had timed her decision perfectly. But at least Seth was safe; I couldn’t see the huge sandy wolf in my head when I thought his name—just the gangly fifteen-year-old boy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDBRb-iDdHI  If you were watching the movie, you'd already have known Riley Biers. He's a freshman at the University of Oregon from Santa Fe (in the movie, he's a native of Forks instead) who gets ambushed and transformed by Victoria in the very first scene of the film to serve as a bodyguard. Riley was played by 26-year-old Xavier Samuel from Victoria, Australia; he's had a relatively low-key career mostly in Australian film and TV before and after. I included the scene of Riley's transformation to show yet again how much the story is improved with a third-person narrative and competent creators. The screenplay by Melissa Rosenberg (creator of the Netflix Jessica Jones series) and directing by David Slade (of Hard Candy and 30 Days of Night) emphasize the horror aspects of Twilight that are usually ignored completely by Meyer. It also serves to smooth the introduction of new characters like Riley and Bree Tanner by letting them appear repeatedly throughout the narrative, saving us from having their entire characterization dumped on us in the climax. While the film was still dragged down by bad acting and the slow pacing that any faithful adaptation would suffer from, critics were more appreciative of the non-romantic content they inserted. It says a lot that all of the stuff that didn't come from Meyer ends up being actually enjoyable to watch. quote:Her orange hair was brighter than I’d remembered, more like a flame. There was no wind here, but the fire around her face seemed to shimmer slightly, as if it were alive. Considering relative vampire strength, I think a casual backhand would be enough to take your head off. quote:My heart beat furiously, loudly, as if to make her target more obvious. For a few seconds, before he would immediately commit suicide. quote:Victoria jerked her chin toward Edward, wordlessly ordering the boy forward. This is what I was talking about. Everything about Victoria and Riley's relationship just sort of gets dumped on us when he makes his first appearance, before he's even had a chance to speak. The film gives him a character of his own by showing not only his transformation, but also Victoria and Riley's creation of her army and how she manipulates him. Edward trying to get him to realize the manipulation actually comes as an expected conclusion to Riley's story rather than making the reader need to suddenly act like the guy who's shown up at the tail end of the book has been here all along. quote:When he said James’s name, Victoria’s lips pulled back in a teeth-baring grimace. Her eyes stayed locked on me. This would matter a lot more if we had actually been seeing Riley throughout the book. As it stands, we have no real reason to care about him or his inner conflict. quote:Edward slid his feet forward and to the side. There was a foot of space between us now. Riley circled too far, overcompensating this time. Victoria leaned forward onto the balls of her feet. I was confused, so I went back and checked the first book. This is actually the first time Victoria ever spoke! Laurent did all the talking for the coven during the baseball game. It actually makes Bella's extreme fear of her over all other vampires even more confusing, because she showed so little personality. quote:Riley’s jaw tightened, and he squared his shoulders. His eyes emptied—there was no more confusion, no more suspicion. There was no thought at all. He tensed himself to attack. This makes her less intimidating. quote:A yard and a half in front of me, the huge wolf ripped and tore at the blond vampire beneath him. Something white and hard smacked into the rocks by my feet. I cringed away from it. Full credit to Edward for pulling this off. As a psychic, he'd obviously be able to detect Seth's presence nearby without his vampire senses being necessary as Victoria and Riley are distracted by the stand-off. His maneuvering was to get Riley in position for an ambush. quote:Only a few yards away from that fight, Edward and Victoria were dancing. This is yet another reason why Bella didn't have anything to worry about. Edward is basically a Jedi. quote:Seth lunged at Riley from the side, and something tore with a hideous, grating screech. Another heavy white chunk flew into the forest with a thud. Riley roared in fury, and Seth skipped back—amazingly light on his feet for his size—as Riley took a swipe at him with one mangled hand. Yes, Victoria's vampiric power is super self-preservation. quote:A snarl ripped from between her lips. You all are! Riley and Victoria are canonically 18. Everyone in this fight is a teenager, at least physically. Everything in the books should actually look pretty odd compared to the films with how young the cast is. quote:Why hadn’t Seth run away? Why didn’t he run now? This is a pretty random thing for Meyer to drop into the book, especially as it's not going to get any resolution until Breaking Dawn. Short version: there's more than one type of werewolf, which will only matter exactly once in a pretty dumb manner that Meyer didn't have to bother with. quote:“Nothing is impossible,” Edward murmured, voice velvet soft as he moved another inch closer to her. “Except what you want. You’ll never touch her.” Just go for the head, Seth! quote:A low whimper escaped through Seth’s teeth. I forgot that Bella is trying to do this with two busted hands. quote:Behind Riley, all I could see was the twisting flame of Victoria’s hair and a blur of white. The increasingly frequent metallic snaps and tears, the gasps and shocked hissings, made it clear that the dance was turning deadly for someone. Yeah, this is why the whole "Third Wife" thing got brought up. quote:I raked the point of the shard up my arm, yanking my thick sweater back to expose the skin, and then pressed the sharp tip to the crease at my elbow. I already had a long scar there from my last birthday. That night, my flowing blood had been enough to catch every vampire’s attention, to freeze them all in place for an instant. I prayed it would work that way again. I steeled myself and sucked in one deep breath. That sigh from Edward is your spoiler for the next chapter. Because Meyer just can't give her protagonist any kind of serious agency or make her truly matter in the plot, she's going to give us something that immediately renders this actual attempt at participating in the plot completely worthless. quote:In that same short second, the dance broke violently apart. It happened so quickly that it was over before I could follow the sequence of events. I tried to catch up in my head. I am very sorry to say that Edward hurling Riley's arm at Victoria's face did not make it into the film. quote:Seth was circling Riley again, and now Riley was retreating. He backed away from the advancing werewolf, his face rigid with pain. He raised his one arm defensively. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWBoeLQTSCc The film fixes Meyer's almost spiteful view of Bella having agency by making her endanger herself when Edward is at risk of being killed. The fight scene is...actually good? quote:Seth launched himself forward with the force of a wrecking ball. The thrust carried both Seth and Riley into the trees, where the metallic screeching was matched by Riley’s screams. Screams that abruptly cut off, while the sounds of rock being ripped to shreds continued. Ah, there's the serial killer side of him. quote:She wheeled and flew toward the refuge of the forest like an arrow from a bow.
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Feb 19, 2020 17:37
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chitoryu12 posted:Yes, Victoria's vampiric power is super self-preservation. A sense of self preservation is kind of a super power in this story! chitoryu12 posted:I am very sorry to say that Edward hurling Riley's arm at Victoria's face did not make it into the film.
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Feb 19, 2020 19:39
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Chapter 25: Mirrorquote:I forced my eyes—frozen wide open with shock—to move, so that I could not examine too closely the oval object wrapped in tendrils of shivering, fiery hair. This is the culmination of all of Bella's worries about the final battle being worthless. The Cullens and Quileute shapeshifters are some of the most lethal beings on the planet in this universe, only really capable of being beaten by the Volturi because of their unique powers. Edward can read his opponent's mind and predict their actions before they even move, Alice is clairvoyant and can see their intended battle plans, Jasper was a Confederate Army officer with decades of experience fighting in vampire wars, Carlisle has over 350 years of knowledge on any subject he wants to study, and Emmett is the vampire equivalent of Hulk Hogan. Esme is the only one who doesn't have anything that specifically gives her an advantage in fighting, but she's still got the whole suite of vampire powers. In the end, all the fretting about how dangerous this situation was and Bella's repeated attempts to sacrifice herself were just more wasted space on the page. quote:He did not look at me—where I stood frozen to the cliff wall, horrified—while he piled the quivering, twitching limbs and then covered them with dry pine needles. He still did not meet my shocked gaze as he darted into the forest after Seth.  Edward's lighter in the film sold for $550 at auction. quote:“Get every piece,” Edward said in a low aside to Seth. Body parts are heavy, dude. quote:Edward kept his eyes on his work. Is it at all possible for Meyer to make Bella seem more pathetic in this moment than having everyone fist-bumping at how badass they are while she shivers in the corner? quote:Then Edward took a deep breath, and turned slowly to face me. He's white, so he probably hasn't had to deal with that. quote:“Bella, can you drop the rock, please? Carefully. Don’t hurt yourself.” That's a decent summary of this series. quote:“It’s going to be all right, Bella. I know you’re frightened now, but it’s over. No one is going to hurt you. I won’t touch you. I won’t hurt you,” he said again. Bella's entire contribution to the finale has been cutting herself with a rock and having a panic attack. quote:His arms tightened around me. “I’m so sorry,” he murmured again and again. "I'm kind of a badass, Bella." quote:“Seth?” The giant battle that got so much stuntwork and Jasper punching teenagers' heads clean off in the film was a complete afterthought to Stephenie Meyer. quote:I let myself absorb that for a moment, let it sink in and settle in my head. "Bella, you're pretty loving creepy!" quote:His suddenly livid expression made my voice fade out. This is the stupid bullshit I was talking about in the last chapter. The one time that Bella actually gets to do anything at all, the one time she actually seems to put herself in serious danger to save a life, Edward turns around and tells her that she didn't need to do it and she actually just made everything worse. It's almost like Meyer can't stand the idea of her protagonist having agency. She's basically telling her "Sit down and shut up. The men know what they're doing." While Meyer likes to triumph herself as a feminist writer, it was only ever a superficial appearance given by simply having a female protagonist who occasionally makes quips and "isn't like the other girls." Her internalized misogyny rears its head constantly, from her rewrite in Life and Death changing the genderswapped Beau and Edythe's personalities to reinforce gender stereotypes about complex emotions to Bella's choices always leading toward her accepting traditional gender roles (with Meyer defending it as actually feminist because "she made the choice herself!"). While the quasi-rape scene two chapters ago was probably the nadir of the series altogether, this might be the lowest point for Meyer's treatment of Bella. She can't let her have even one moment of real heroism without jumping in to gently caress with it and laugh at her for daring to try. quote:“Well, I didn’t know that,” I said, on the offense now. “And it’s not easy being the only helpless person around. Just you wait till I’m a vampire! I’m not going to be sitting on the sidelines next time.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cphNpqKpKc4 quote:“Hold on. Didn’t you say something before—?” I flinched, remembering what exactly it had been before—what was I going to say to Jacob? My splintered heart throbbed out a painful, aching beat. It was hard to believe, almost impossible, but the hardest part of this day was not behind me—and then I soldiered on. “About a complication? And Alice, needing to nail down the schedule for Sam. You said it was going to be close. What was going to be close?” It's not nothing. It might be the least "nothing" it could be. quote:He started to pull me into place on his back, but I stiffened and drew away. With a loud squeaking noise? quote:“Edward! Edward!” I kept having to re-read this because that last sentence is such a clunky phrase that I couldn't figure out what she meant. quote:I’d burned through all my adrenaline. My body had nothing left. I sagged, and Edward caught me before I could hit the rocks. He sprang to his feet, me in his arms. Can we get a fainting/collapsing count on this series? So far I think she's done it more often than she's helped anyone. quote:“Seth!” Edward shouted. I still can't even see the Volturi as villainous. They're just a cleanup crew and police force, no more moral than a vacuum cleaner. quote:“Is that why we’re going back?” I whispered. Could I handle this? Images of flowing black robes crept into my unwilling mind, and I flinched away from them. I was close to a breaking point. You've spent most of the last two books close to a breaking point! quote:“It’s part of the reason. Mostly, it will be safer for us to present a united front at this point. They have no reason to harass us, but… Jane’s with them. If she thought we were alone somewhere away from the others, it might tempt her. Like Victoria, Jane will probably guess that I’m with you. Demetri, of course, is with her. He could find me, if Jane asked him to.” Like I said, the thing about there being multiple types of werewolves will matter exactly once hundreds of pages from now. quote:I couldn’t process his explanation. My concentration was ripped to shreds by my fears. We’re going to be fine, he had said before… and Seth, howling in agony… Edward had avoided my first question, distracted me with the Volturi.… This would be a lot more compelling if we could actually see it happen! quote:“Leah,” I repeated, and I was too weak to feel shame for the relief that flooded through me. “Is she going to be okay?” Because I'm extremely done with Meyer trying to make everything pointlessly dramatic, I'll tell you right now that it's not really a life-threatening injury. It's the werewolf equivalent of breaking your arm. quote:“Who?” I asked, though, of course, I already knew the answer.
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Feb 21, 2020 17:06
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In a better book all this fainting would imply an ironic issue with low blood pressure.
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Feb 22, 2020 13:27
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HopperUK posted:In a better book all this fainting would imply an ironic issue with low blood pressure. I think I've seen like on RiffTrax or somewhere 'well, no wonder no vampire wants to drink from her, she's clearly anemic.'
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Feb 22, 2020 14:17
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quote:I was first aware of the cool hands touching me. More than one pair of hands. Arms holding me, a palm curved to fit my cheek, fingers stroking my forehead, and more fingers pressed lightly into my wrist. That's about how I feel reading this book. quote:Jacob. It feels like even the author just wants us to dunk on Bella. Now Alice is calling her out for this right in front of her. quote:“Bella, honey?” This was Esme’s soft, comforting voice. “Can you hear me? You’re safe now, dear.” All of this is just so embarrassing for Bella. Every time she's dramatic or tries to do anything other than sit quietly and let everyone else do things for her, she keeps having to get told "Actually everything is fine and you never had anything to worry about." It's happened so much and so blatantly that it comes off almost as mocking now. quote:“What happened to him?” I whispered. “How bad are his injuries?” He's so okay, it won't even really matter for the next book! Bella was fainting and dissociating over a painful but ultimately minor injury for a werewolf's healing factor. Actually, I think I would have preferred permanent damage. Other than Bella and Edward's engagement and the final removal of Victoria as a threat, there really hasn't been any lasting change to the main cast (and I'd hesitate to even call Victoria "main" when she didn't speak more than a few lines and only made a few tangential appearances in three books until the climax). There's less sense of tension than an average soap opera, and knowing how it ends means you already know the plot will progress in the most predictable manner possible. Almost nothing that happens ever matters. quote:I took a deep breath.  Finally, 85% through the book, we get to meet the star of The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner, a novella we will not be reading because I flipped through it and it's still just as boring as the main series. Had you been watching the movie, you would have seen Bree several times before as a reluctant member of Victoria's army, including her hiding from the final battle instead of participating. It serves to make her ultimate fate have more impact on the audience than just throwing her at us at the end of the book so we can feel kinda sad. Bree was played by 15-year-old Jodelle Ferland, another Canadian who became the youngest actress in history to earn a Daytime Emmy nomination for her role in the TV movie Mermaid at the age of 4. She made various minor appearances on shows filmed in Canada like Supernatural and Smallville before scoring the role of Bree. She's had a consistent career as she became an adult, including playing the undead Patience Buckner in The Cabin in the Woods and providing a Little Sister voice for BioShock 2, and is still keeping busy in film and TV every year. quote:Edward saw my bewildered expression. Another blow toward Bella. Alice, the tiny vampire she was absolutely convinced was going to get torn to shreds, is a loving murder machine like she kept getting told over and over again. quote:The young female suddenly threw her head back like an animal and wailed shrilly. I thought Bella was only supposed to "sing" to Edward. Does she just have unusually awesome blood toward every vampire? quote:“You must stand it,” Carlisle told her gravely. “You must exercise control. It is possible, and it is the only thing that will save you now.” I think the film removed Bree's blood craziness, which further emphasizes her victimhood in the scenes involving her. quote:Then Carlisle and Jasper began to back toward the rest of us. Emmett, Rosalie, and Esme all converged hastily around where Edward stood with Alice and me. A united front, as Edward had said, with me at the heart, in the safest place. She must have read the next book. quote:“Welcome, Jane.” Edward’s tone was coolly courteous. She's asking why this book took so long. quote:“She has surrendered,” Edward explained, answering the confusion in her mind. Bella had better get used to this if she wants to be a vampire. The rules under the Volturi are completely amoral and strictly enforced, and Carlisle has been around long enough to not question it. Getting involved in this kind of life isn't pleasant, regardless of how many millions of dollars your immortality gets you. quote:Jane stared at Carlisle in consternation. She shook her head infinitesimally, and then composed her features. The apparent surprise at the size of this newborn army would be a lot more meaningful if we hadn't seen the Cullens and werewolves just effortlessly tear them apart with only minor injuries. quote:Jane’s eyes narrowed, and she turned to the girl beside the fire. “You there,” she said, her dead voice harsher than before. “Your name.” Stephenie Meyer in conjunction with Lionsgate released a series of seven short films, The Storytellers, that were chosen from among various independent pitches to be filmed showing the life of the vampire characters in the past. They didn't involve any of the original actors, but they're considered canon and do all of the effort she never did of fleshing out their stories. Jane and Alec were both born with psychic powers like Alice (again, not really explained or ever seen outside of the vampires despite the implications for the rest of the universe) and, like Alice, were treated pretty badly for it. Whereas Alice was declared crazy and thrown in an asylum, Jane and Alec were set to be burned at the stake as witches; they were always this creepy and only became more sadistic after their transformation. While the Volturi knew about them and initially planned to let them come of age to avoid breaking the law against child vampires, Aro couldn't let the opportunity to get such powerful people under his command and rushed to transform them during their execution, killing the entire village in the process. The story of Jane and Alec is covered in the film Consumed. The others are * Turncoats, about Carlisle serving as a doctor in the American Revolution and dealing with a newborn vampire whose sister is disguised as a soldier. * Sunrise, about two members of the Egyptian coven we'll meet later and their first days as vampires in 1810. * The Mary Alice Brandon File, about Alice's imprisonment in the asylum. * The Groundskeeper, about Alice's transformation into a vampire by the groundskeeper (who was once an African tribal prince) to save her from James and Victoria. * We've Met Before, about Alice and Jasper's first meeting in a diner in 1948. * Masque, about Esme struggling to deal with her blood hunger and prior trauma at a masquerade ball shortly after her transformation. As you can see, every single one of this stories is way more goddamn interesting than the books. When we continue with Breaking Dawn I'll provide some information where it's relevant, as the stories do a lot of the heavy lifting in creating an actual universe for the ever-expanding cast of relatively flat characters who all know each other from before. quote:Jane smiled, and the girl shrieked again. I held my breath until the sound of her agony stopped.  The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner covers both Bree's transformation and the drama within the coven. The newborns were virtually uncontrollable, but some began to suspect that Riley had been lying to them about their weaknesses and Victoria's plans for them. Among other things, he claimed that vampires can only walk in sunlight for 4 days out of the year to keep them hidden at night while still being able to attack Forks. Because vampires can be dismembered and use venom to reattach the pieces, they regularly got into vicious fights or had Riley break pieces off them as punishment. Because the newborns were so uncontrollable and Bella's scent drives them into a frenzy, they were easy pickings for the Cullens and the werewolves; Sara even killed another newborn herself in a rage before the battle. quote:“And this Victoria—did she create you?” Riley and Victoria, of course, were just going to let all the newborns die. This was all just about one vampire holding a grudge against one human. quote:Bree nodded, seeming relieved that the conversation had taken this non-painful course. She sat up carefully. “I don’t know what happened. We split up, but the others never came. And Riley left us, and he didn’t come to help like he promised. And then it was so confusing, and everybody was in pieces.” She shuddered again. “I was afraid. I wanted to run away. That one”—she looked at Carlisle—“said they wouldn’t hurt me if I stopped fighting.” There were actually three members of the army (Fred, Shelly, and Steve) who fled before the battle and are believed to still be alive, but Meyer doesn't give a poo poo about any characters who aren't her main trio so they've never been seen again or referenced anywhere because she's too busy just rewriting the same book over and over. quote:Jane half-smiled. “I can’t deny that I’m impressed.” The big shadows behind her murmured in agreement. “I’ve never seen a coven escape this magnitude of offensive intact. Do you know what was behind it? It seems like extreme behavior, considering the way you live here. And why was the girl the key?” Her eyes rested unwilling on me for one short second. "It makes no loving sense! It's like someone is just making her the center of everything for no reason!" quote:Edward stiffened. I looked at him in time to see his face turning away, back to Jane. If you're hoping for any kind of explanation for it, prepare to be disappointed. quote:“Well, it appears that there’s not much left for us to do. Odd,” Jane said, apathy creeping back into her voice. “We’re not used to being rendered unnecessary. It’s too bad we missed the fight. It sounds like it would have been entertaining to watch.” This is something the novella about Bree Tanner and the film provide clarification on. The Volturi actually met with Victoria and Riley after their chaos in Seattle attracted too much attention. Rather than destroying their newborn army, they told them they had five days to fulfill whatever purpose the army was for and then destroy it. They weren't going to kill the Cullens themselves (as they had broken no rules), but they also didn't quite mind if they happened to die in this fight. Knowing that Edward is telepathic, Bree has been zapping all of the information she can into his head during this scene. Would be great if any of it actually came up in the book! quote:Jane turned to look at the newborn Bree again, her face completely bored. “Felix?” she drawled. Aro's gonna throw a party! quote:Jane’s smile faded, and she shrugged indifferently, never looking at Alice. She turned to face Carlisle. “It was nice to meet you, Carlisle—I’d thought Aro was exaggerating. Well, until we meet again…” She can't miss her soaps. quote:“Don’t watch,” Edward whispered in my ear.
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Feb 24, 2020 18:03
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Carsile is such a hypocrite, a holy man and doctor who stands by while antagonists murder a literal and figurative child. It’s not the only example but it’s an egregious one. Meanwhile Jane is played up as so dangerous and awful, except this scene makes such little sense because you have: - The Cullens, who despite all of Bella’s needless whining are all some level of powerful - rapid-healing werewolves in the area that the antagonists aren’t used to dealing with - the local police aka Charlie who at this point may have been alerted to fires in the area I kind of hate how Meyer’s bland choices lead me to writing fanfic: imagine the high-stakes fight you could get here if Carsile actually stuck to his guns and told the Voltari to shove it, causing characters to be at risk, the Voltari’s shock as the werewolves come in for the last-minute save Jane et al aren’t prepared for, secondary characters on both sides die fighting for what they believe. Keep Bree alive to show Bella what she has to look forward to but give her some real second thoughts about what immortality will involve. But then Meyer would have to make things hard on her characters, and we can’t have that! I’ve seen it said that a sign of caring about characters is making them suffer, not needlessly but making them really work for emotional growth, reaching their goals, etc. I don’t know if Meyer just didn’t care and wanted to pad her story out to her wanted ending, or if her own life has been so privileged she couldn’t imaging greater suffering than standing passively by and doing nothing to work toward an outcome?
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Feb 25, 2020 13:49
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Carsile is such a hypocrite, a holy man and doctor who stands by while antagonists murder a literal and figurative child. It’s not the only example but it’s an egregious one. Meanwhile Jane is played up as so dangerous and awful, except this scene makes such little sense because you have: I think it's possible for (again) a better writer to justify Carlisle and Edward's decision to stand by. While the Cullens and Quileute shapeshifters are powerful and could potentially kill the entire Volturi at risk to themselves (which might not be worth it to save one newborn who's still so blood-crazy that she was trying to break free to kill Bella minutes ago), Carlisle especially knows the value of the Volturi. They're the only vampire organization that's really dedicated itself to maintaining order and helping vampires avoid extinction by keeping a low profile. When they're not sitting around Volterra, they're flying around the world to kill immortal children and anyone who's causing too much chaos in cities. You can definitely see Meyer trying to write in a sense of professional respect between them and Carlisle. And there's no chance that they would just let it go, even if it would take them years to plot their revenge. Bree's execution could be kept in because Carlisle understands that even if they won the fight with the Volturi with no casualties and had no chance of reprisal (a tall order), they would be creating a power vacuum by toppling an established order that's existed for millennia. Who knows how many newborn armies like Victoria's have been created and then destroyed by the Volturi before they had a chance to wipe a town off the map? How many times have they killed an indestructible, immortal child who was turned and began tearing its way through villages without any sense of morality? Carlisle knows that saving Bree would also mean the potential for many more human lives lost. This would also serve as a proper introduction for Bella to what the vampire world is like. The rules and morality are nothing like they are among humans, and she would need to lose at least part of her human scruples if she wanted to survive among them without going insane. After so many ignored moments from the other Cullens about what she's getting into, this could be the trigger for her finally admitting to herself that she really didn't understand the consequences. Of course, this would also only be possible if Meyer wasn't so overtly treating vampirism as a metaphor for losing your virginity.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:17
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Chapter 26: Ethicsquote:The counter in Alice's bathroom was covered with a thousand different products, all claiming to beautify a person’s surface. Since everyone in this house was both perfect and impermeable, I could only assume that she’d bought most of these things with me in mind. I read the labels numbly, struck by the waste. Bella Swan: Environmentalist. quote:I was careful never to look in the long mirror. Bella, he's fine! He just needs a few days of bed rest! We've been over this! quote:“Jacob’s still unconscious,” Alice answered. “Carlisle or Edward will call when he’s awake. Anyway, you need to go see Charlie. He was there at Billy’s house, he saw that Carlisle and Edward are back in from their trip, and he’s bound to be suspicious when you get home.” We're once again seeing how much Bella would need to change herself to become a vampire. It's not just about three days of agony and then you get your perfect immortal life with your husband. Every single way that you operate needs to be changed to maintain your cover and you need to be extremely meticulous about every detail. Your relationships with humans must necessarily be limited to keep anything from being exposed about your true nature. When you don't digest food, do you eat and then throw it back up to maintain your cover or come up with an excuse every time you get invited to lunch? How many times do you let someone get hurt or even die because you can't show your supernatural strength or reflexes? In Midnight Sun, we see Rosalie seriously suggest euthanizing Bella in her sleep after Edward saves her from the van to keep their secret. Every time Meyer glosses over these problems or comes up with an excuse to ignore them, it makes it more and more obvious how much this is an analogue for sex rather than a fleshed-out story and characters. Robert Pattinson himself said he felt like he was acting out her weird sexual fantasies as Edward. quote:“Go home,” Alice ordered. “Talk to Charlie. Flesh out your alibi. Keep him safe.” Bella fretting over nothing would always be aggravating for how much page time it takes up, but it's even dumber because every character keeps having to roll their eyes and tell her to quit being such a drama queen about everything. It's like they're the only ones who know they're in a book and want this poo poo to hurry along. quote:“Is there anything you want to talk about before you leave?” Alice asked sympathetically. “You must be more than a little traumatized.” She actually isn't anything like that and instantly has perfect control! With no explanation except that she's the author's self-insert! quote:“We’ll keep you out of trouble.” Crunchy. quote:“Alice, can I ask you a question? About the future?” This is the only explanation we'll ever get about Bella's "shield." The only people we see with special powers are seen after they've already been turned into vampires, so we're not going to get Bella encountering anything deeper in the supernatural world despite canon evidence of psychic powers in humans. There's an implication of a much bigger and more complex world that we just never see. quote:She watched my face to see if I was following her logic. In truth, her words had all started to run together, the syllables and sounds losing their meaning. I couldn’t concentrate on them. Still, I nodded. Trying to look like I got it. Nope. That's a whole can of worms in there. quote:“I do. I just wanted to be sure.” Nothing can get in the way of Stephenie Meyer's fantasies! quote:She put her arms around me. “I’m sorry. I can’t really empathize. My first memory is of seeing Jasper’s face in my future; I always knew that he was where my life was headed. But I can sympathize. I’m so sorry you have to choose between two good things.” Alice, are you...okay? quote:I shook off her arms. “Don’t feel sorry for me.” There were people who deserved sympathy. I wasn’t one of them. And there wasn’t any choice to make—there was just breaking a good heart to attend to now. “I’ll go deal with Charlie.” I wonder if they had Alice set up an accident scene as enthusiastically as she trashed their hotel room in Phoenix last year. quote:I nodded as I started pulling things out of the fridge. Charlie settled himself in at the table. He seemed to be in a more talkative mood than usual. It would be a much more interesting book if he did! quote:“He had a pretty good excuse today. How did he look?” I really want to hear this entire rant he unloaded on Charlie. quote:I turned back to the fridge so that he couldn’t see my face. A very mature rapist. Let's not forget that part. Ever. quote:“Weird day today,” Charlie mused after a minute. “You know, I don’t put much stock in that superstitious crap, but it was odd.… It was like Billy knew something bad was going to happen to Jake. He was nervous as a turkey on Thanksgiving all morning. I don’t think he heard anything I said to him. Oh look, even more character interaction that's more interesting than watching two dudes fight over a girl before one of them uses a suicide threat to molest her! The real rewritten Twilight we need is one that's just from Charlie's perspective. quote:“Well, he found some game he said he wanted to watch, but then he just ignored it. He was on the phone the whole time, calling Sue, and Emily, and your friend Quil’s grandpa. Couldn’t quite make out what he was looking for—he just chatted real casual with them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVmyaUHNdOQ quote:Charlie paused for a minute, his face thoughtful. “Funny that some good should come out of this mess. I didn’t think they were ever going to get over that fool prejudice they have against the Cullens down there. But somebody called Carlisle, and Billy was real grateful when he showed up. I thought we should get Jake up to the hospital, but Billy wanted to keep him home, and Carlisle agreed. I guess Carlisle knows what’s best. Generous of him to sign up for such a long stretch of house calls.” I thought Edward would be happy that his fiancee's rapist got a few broken limbs for his trouble. I guess a bond forged in fire really can forgive anything! quote:“I won’t hold you to it,” I mumbled. Jacob is 6'7 and solid, rippling muscle. He's about the same size as Hulk Hogan in his prime. quote:If only I could be struck by lightning and be split in two. Preferably painfully. For the first time, giving up being human felt like a true sacrifice. Like it might be too much to lose. Only now?! quote:I put Charlie’s dinner on the table next to his elbow and headed for the door. "It's like the author is telling me something..." quote:“Don’t be silly, Dad,” I mumbled guiltily. “You want me to go to school, don’t you?”
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Feb 25, 2020 16:49
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It may have come up earlier in the thread, but I seem to recall Meyer saying she never really read any vampire fiction before and oh my lord does it really show here.
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Feb 25, 2020 18:28
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I always felt bad for Bree, but you're right, the Volturi aren't really villains. They eat and murder humans without concern, of course, but so does every single non-'vegetarian' vampire, including several allies from the next book. The whole point is without vampire cops that stick very firmly to the rules without playing favorites, you'd get a lot more massacres and killing sprees, which is a lot more objective good to the world than Bella ever does. It's never really explained what the age cutoff for vampire child is, is it? Bree's 15 and, well, about as vicious as any newborn but with more self-preservation in the movie, she's clearly old enough to get a hold on herself someday if it wasn't for dying. I got the impression Alec and Jane died when they were about 13, since a big deal is made of how small and young-seeming they are? And they're, uh, off, and frozen brain development at a relatively young age could be part of what Meyer was thinking with that, but again, they were old enough that they've got self-control and self-preservation instincts, even if the Volturi would have preferred to turn them at an older age. Also I know you talked about Alec and Jane's backstory a while back, but my impression from when I read the books years ago is that their near-death twisted their psychic powers? Like Alec used to be more of a healer and Jane could do more stuff, too, but the, you know, excruciating pain of almost being burned alive and then the 3 days of pain and 'burning' from the transformation means she can just spitefully project that pain out at other people now? I always thought the idea of that was interesting in that, like, she's kind of stuck being her worst self forever now because that's the mindset she was at when she died.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:59
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PetraCore posted:I always felt bad for Bree, but you're right, the Volturi aren't really villains. They eat and murder humans without concern, of course, but so does every single non-'vegetarian' vampire, including several allies from the next book. The whole point is without vampire cops that stick very firmly to the rules without playing favorites, you'd get a lot more massacres and killing sprees, which is a lot more objective good to the world than Bella ever does. According to the canon created by the short films, they were creepy kids who used their powers to help people they liked while also hurting people they didn't. They were in the middle of their burning when Aro showed up, slaughtered the entire village, and turned them as they were on the brink of death. Combined with Caius's influence (because that dude is a total freak), Jane in particular ended up becoming particularly sadistic in her treatment of others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v__nseag8bU
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Feb 25, 2020 22:16
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quote:Carlisle’s black Mercedes was not in front of Billy’s house. That was both good and bad. Obviously, I needed to talk to Jacob alone. Yet I still wished I could somehow hold Edward’s hand, like I had before, when Jacob was unconscious. Impossible. But I missed Edward—it had seemed like a very long afternoon alone with Alice. I supposed that made my answer quite obvious. I already knew that I couldn’t live without Edward. That fact wasn’t going to make this any less painful. No no, it's definitely okay to be afraid of Jacob now. quote:I opened the door a crack and leaned hesitantly in. Yes, very hard for him to resist the urge to rape you! quote:Thankfully, someone had covered him with a quilt. It was a relief not to have to see the extent of the damage. This is the closest this book will ever get to drug use. I don't think Bella even drinks coffee or tea. Does it surprise you, though? quote:“But you’re not in pain.” This is the funniest line in the entire series. quote:The wry humor left his face, and his eyes warmed up. His forehead creased, like he was worried. Geeeeet hosed. Was it not enough that you used a threat of suicide to sexually assault her? Now you have to redirect the anger onto her fiancee? quote:“No, no, Jake! I’m fine. Too fine, really. Of course he wasn’t mean. I wish!” What a disgusting fucker. How the hell did people leave this book liking him? quote:The way he said it, though angrier, reminded me of Edward’s tribute to Jacob’s lack of ethics in the tent this morning. Which meant that Jake was still hoping, still fighting. I winced as that stabbed deep. Stephenie Meyer wrote an entire description of New Moon from Jacob's perspective because of fans accusing him of being manipulative, and she wanted to prove otherwise as he states outright that he's being manipulative. quote:“He isn’t manipulating me!” You should probably have been arrested at some point in this book, in fact! quote:“I don’t care, Jake. I’m not mad.” I hate this book so much. I hate Stephenie Meyer now. quote:“Is it? Is it really better than if I was still in the dark?” Imagine if that scene in the forest was actual rape, not just forced kissing with rape overtones (including talking about how violent it was and him telling her to admit that she likes it). Imagine if, after being raped, Bella realized that she enjoyed it and thus was actually in love with Jacob, and he is now describing it as a justified way of getting her to date him instead. The next book I'm reading is one that has violent BDSM and was written by an outright sexual predator, and it somehow manages to be less creepy than this. I think it's because The Revelator is so over the top and edgelord that it comes off as grotesquely humorous. This is more insidious, like she legitimately doesn't understand relationships or boundaries, and is putting it in a book aimed at teenage girls and telling them that this sort of thing is okay. quote:This time I did not—could not—resist the urge to comfort him. I crossed the small room and kneeled by his head, afraid to sit on the bed in case I jostled it and hurt him, and leaned in to touch my forehead to his cheek. J Yeah! It's your fault for *checks notes* being molested? quote:He grinned. It didn’t touch his eyes. “You want me to haul you over the coals?” How is it getting worse? quote:“Sorry doesn’t make anything better, Bella. What were you thinking?” What is this bizarre roleplaying fuckery? Who the hell writes this poo poo? quote:He shifted his weight, throwing his good leg off the bed as if he were going to try to stand. I have no words for how awful this is. quote:“I know.” I took a deep, ragged breath, trying to control myself. How did I end up being the one crying while he did the comforting? “It’s all still true, though. Thanks for saying it out loud.” You mean "How can we be friends, when you keep assaulting me and telling me it's just so you can try to force me to break up my engagement?" quote:He looked at the ceiling, his stare intent, as if he were reading something that was written there. “Maybe… it will have to be a long-distance friendship.” I feel unclean for having read this. quote:I closed my eyes, willing myself to control the pain. I couldn’t impose that on him. Oh look, it's another roundabout conversation where they just repeat the same arguments over and over! quote:“No.” Jacob shook his head. “I’m exactly right for you, Bella. It would have been effortless for us—comfortable, easy as breathing. I was the natural path your life would have taken.…” He stared into space for a moment, and I waited. “If the world was the way it was supposed to be, if there were no monsters and no magic…” Ironically, this is probably accurate in a twisted meta sense. Jacob probably would have been a good boyfriend for Bella had he maintained the same personality he did before his first werewolf transformation, when he was still just a nice guy who liked working on cars and watching lovely action movies. If the supernatural side of things didn't exist at all and Bella just ended up in Forks in a normal world without vampires, where Edward Masen died of the Spanish Flu in 1917 and Carlisle Cullen was just the crazy son of a Protestant preacher in the 17th century, she probably would have struck up a friendship and eventual romance with Jacob after first meeting the Quileute with her friends on a trip to La Push. The transformation of Jacob into a rage-filled sexual predator only occurred because Stephenie Meyer needed a foil to her perfect vampire boyfriend, someone who was a flawed alternative that would create strife. quote:I could see what he saw, and I knew that he was right. If the world was the sane place it was supposed to be, Jacob and I would have been together. And we would have been happy. He was my soul mate in that world—would have been my soul mate still if his claim had not been overshadowed by something stronger, something so strong that it could not exist in a rational world. Oh you're gonna be real excited to find out who it is! quote:Two futures, two soul mates… too much for any one person. And so unfair that I wouldn’t be the only one to pay for it. Jacob’s pain seemed too high a price. Cringing at the thought of that price, I wondered if I would have wavered, if I hadn’t lost Edward once. If I didn’t know what it was like to live without him. I wasn’t sure. That knowledge was so deep a part of me, I couldn’t imagine how I would feel without it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u0wg3t6osM quote:I touched his face, laying my hand against his cheek. He exhaled at my touch and closed his eyes. It was very quiet. For a minute I could hear the beating of his heart, slow and even. You should deny him a lot of things! quote:“The worst part…” I hesitated, and then let words spill out in a flood of truth. “The worst part is that I saw the whole thing—our whole life. And I want it bad, Jake, I want it all. I want to stay right here and never move. I want to love you and make you happy. And I can’t, and it’s killing me. It’s like Sam and Emily, Jake—I never had a choice. I always knew nothing would change. Maybe that’s why I was fighting against you so hard.” Again, I dare you to find any point in the previous book where it actually seemed like Jacob had a legitimate shot. Any point where Bella's ruminations on dating him or having romantic interest in him weren't immediately suppressed with "But he's not my Edward, and nothing will ever fill that void except Edward coming back." quote:He seemed to be concentrating on breathing evenly. Every time this happens I picture Jacob just wolfing out right there. quote:“Yes. In comparison,” I agreed. At her speed? I give her 12 hours. quote:I suppressed a groan, imagining what Alice would do. This couldn't be a more obvious virginity metaphor if Edward had to wear tooth condoms during sex to avoid accidentally turning her. quote:“Lots of things.” I worked to make my voice lighter, but I stayed honest. “I’ve never been much of a masochist, so I’m not looking forward to the pain. And I wish there was some way to keep him away—I don’t want him to suffer with me, but I don’t think there’s any way around it. There’s dealing with Charlie, too, and Renée.… And then afterward, I hope I’ll be able to control myself soon. Maybe I’ll be such a menace that the pack will have to take me out.” This isn't a joke! You can kill lots of people! quote:“Well, anyway, lots to worry about. But worth it, in the end.” She won't! quote:I made an effort to smile. “Until my heart stops beating.” He's one of like, two decent people in this series. Listen to him. quote:“I wonder when it will happen,” I said. “When the right girl is going to catch your eye.” Someone please tell me if Meyer had already planned who Jacob would imprint on in the next book when she wrote this. I need to know if this foreshadowing is meant to sound like it does. quote:“Let me know if you want me to come back, and I’ll be here,” I promised.
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Feb 26, 2020 16:41
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We only have two more chapters before Eclipse comes to an end and I take a much needed sanity break from Twilight, so I decided to be proactive and start the thread for William Control's stupid rape books. I'll be heading in there once we've taken care of this book.
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Feb 26, 2020 17:55
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chitoryu12 posted:I don't think Bella even drinks coffee or tea. Does it surprise you, though? Her Mormonism is showing. I don't know why Meyer didn't outright write her to be one.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:07
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Cythereal posted:Her Mormonism is showing. I imagine because if she was Mormon the elders would have already married her off by the time she meets Edward.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:37
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I like Carlisle and this stupid book makes me grumpy. I'd rather have a book that's just flat-out terrible than this, where it keeps just - *nearly* being interesting. It's nearly a good story. It *nearly* has fun characters. How can she keep missing the target so badly?
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Feb 26, 2020 20:50
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God wait til the next book where they introduce like, 50 new and fun sounding characters but gently caress you, reader, let's hear some more from Jacob instead.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:51
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Cythereal posted:Her Mormonism is showing. It was funny how in the first book, I think it was, Bella's idea of a date night outfit was a modest blouse and a sensible tan skirt. Very wanton.
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Feb 27, 2020 05:35
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Dawgstar posted:It was funny how in the first book, I think it was, Bella's idea of a date night outfit was a modest blouse and a sensible tan skirt. Very wanton. And if I remember correctly, Edward's outfit in Port Angeles was khaki pants and a tan sweater.
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Feb 27, 2020 05:48
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Chapter 27: Needsquote:I didn't get very far before driving became impossible. Wouldn't that get creepy after a while? Alice doesn't seem to have any filter on telling Edward what she sees, and he bullies his family into going along with him anyway. You're constantly being spied on. quote:At first it was worse. Because there was that smaller part of me—smaller, but getting louder and angrier every minute, screaming at the rest of me—that craved a different set of arms. So then there was fresh guilt to season the pain. Has there been a single chapter so far without Bella suffering a breakdown of some kind? This is just such a miserable read. quote:There was just enough for me to quiet the sobs—hold them back but not end them. The tears didn’t slow. I couldn’t seem to find any handle to even begin to work with those. You'd think by now Charlie would be used to Bella returning home a complete mess. quote:“Nothing, Dad. I… just had to talk to Jacob about… some things that were hard. I’m fine.” Especially with a rapist! quote:He shook his head slowly. “How did he handle it?” Don't sound so disappointed. quote:Charlie sighed. Probably because it tends to be combined with you doing something dangerous. quote:I made my way to my room, blind and stumbling. ...what? quote:This longest of days seemed to stretch on and on and on. I wondered if it would ever end. Charlie's life has been so awful and it's entirely his ex-wife and daughter's fault. quote:My hindsight seemed unbearably clear tonight. I could see every mistake I’d made, every bit of harm I’d done, the small things and the big things. Each pain I’d caused Jacob, each wound I’d given Edward, stacked up into neat piles that I could not ignore or deny. The worst part is that she's done all sorts of poo poo and Edward and Jacob still come off as worse. How many times have they abused this girl or used her as a pawn against each other, then blamed her for them doing it? This whole plot is three severely hosed up youths being assholes. quote:At some point in the night, I remembered the promise I’d made to myself early this morning—that I would never make Edward see me shed another tear for Jacob Black. The thought brought on a round of hysteria which frightened Edward more than the weeping. But it passed, too, when it had run its course. This isn't even interesting to read. It's just depressing. quote:Edward said little; he just held me on the bed and let me ruin his shirt, staining it with salt water. Doubtful! quote:His eyes tightened at my words. I read a bit ahead in Breaking Dawn and no, absolutely nothing about their relationship changes. Even after marriage Edward is still throwing dramatic angst-filled tantrums, calling himself a monster, and freaking out that Bella secretly hates him. Even she starts to get tired of it by their honeymoon. quote:“But…” That is an incredibly disquieting thing to hear someone say to you in real life. quote:He still looked dubious. I should never have let him stay with me last night. But I had needed him so much.… Is Meyer framing Heathcliff and Cathy's relationship as good? Did she even read the book? quote:“Yes,” I said quietly. “That’s my point.” If Alice did that to me I would change something just to spite her. quote:“Don’t worry, Bella, it will be perfect. Do you want to see your dress?” Edward and Bella break up and Alice nervously pushes ruffled white cloth back in the closet with her feet. quote:“When?” I asked again. Bella throws so many tantrums that it's now suspicious when she's calm. quote:“You—out.” These people are so weird. quote:“All right!” she muttered. “C’mon.” I see that famous Stephenie Meyer eye for detail is coming out! I can picture this dress perfectly! quote:“It’s beautiful. It’s just right for him.” Alice may be a complete weirdo, but I'd follow her over Bella any day. quote:I followed at my own pace. Edward was waiting for me in the hallway, leaning against the wood-paneled wall. At least until the next book! quote:He was quiet, thoughtful, as he ran. The wind blew on my face, warmer now that the storm had really passed. The clouds covered the sky, the way they usually did. Stop reminding me of how much of a babyface Carlisle should be. The perfect doctor who looks like he's barely out of college that adopted a bunch of high school students. quote:My voice was serene, a counterpoint to his anxiety. “My age is not really that important. Edward, I’m ready. I’ve chosen my life—now I want to start living it.” I'm sure they would all show up wearing nothing but jorts to the wedding. quote:Edward was quiet for a minute. I stared at the tips of the treetops, almost black against the light gray of the sky. That's the most concern she's shown for her dad in any situation that isn't him at risk of dying! quote:Edward held my face, searching it for a brief time. God this dude is so loving obnoxious. quote:“But I—” How could you stand to date a guy like this, let alone marry him? This dude's a walking r/relationships post. quote:His hands were in my hair, his lips moving softly—but very seriously—against mine, before I realized what he was saying. What he was doing. I had to read ahead to check that yes, this was him trying to turn Bella into a vampire right in the middle of the goddamn meadow and not about just having sex. Carlisle would need to give her morphine regardless! quote:“Don’t you?” he asked, a smile in his voice. He moved his lips back to mine and made speaking impossible. Heat coursed through my veins, burning where my skin touched his. Why does this book keep having these scenes quote:“Please?” I gasped. Imagine having to deal with this prick for eternity. quote:“How are you going to do this right?” That's right! No vampirism before marriage! quote:I grinned at him. “Never said I did.” A dramatic reenactment of Edward telling Charlie of their engagement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0-cg3cyETY quote:He laughed at the expression on my face. “Highly dangerous,” he agreed. He laughed again and then reached into the pocket of his jeans. “But at least there’s no need for a side trip.” chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Feb 27, 2020 |
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Feb 27, 2020 18:12
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These fukkin’ books, geez.
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Feb 28, 2020 06:19
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Epilogue - Choicequote:“Jacob, do you think this is going to take too much longer?” Leah demanded. Impatient. Whiney. For the first time, Stephenie Meyer is writing from the perspective of someone else! This epilogue will take place from the perspective of Jacob, and it does him absolutely no favors as a character. quote:“Really, kid.” She ignored me, throwing herself into a sprawl on the ground next to me. “You have no idea how hard this is for me.” I don't think Jacob is actually capable of that. quote:If she was trying to break my mood, it worked. I started laughing. The sound hurt in strange ways. I think this confirms that Meyer describing Jacob as snorting all the time wasn't just a weird choice of words. He actually snorts every time he laughs. quote:“If I pretend to listen, will you leave?” I asked, glancing over at the permanent scowl on her face. I wasn’t sure if she had any other expressions anymore. What the gently caress? quote:Her scowl heated up, as if she could guess what I was thinking. Probably could. This is a surprisingly good moment from Meyer, one that desperately makes me wish she was writing about the werewolves instead. It actually gives us a really good idea of why they seem so tense all the time: because of their mental connection that they can't turn off when in wolf form, their minds are all forming into a confusing morass where everyone's thoughts are interfering with one another. A better author who wasn't so obsessed with her personal vampire fantasy could really seize on this idea; she did write a sci-fi book, The Host, that seems to have a vaguely similar concept but is mostly inspired by body dysphoria. quote:“I can’t stand being in your head anymore! Get over her already! She’s going to marry that thing. He’s going to try to change her into one of them! Time to move on, boy.” This is confirmation that every time I made a joke about Jacob's temper problems being a sign of him wolfing out, it was. quote:“If you’re upset about gender confusion, Leah…,” I said. Slow, emphasizing each word. “How do you think the rest of us like looking at Sam through your eyes? It’s bad enough that Emily has to deal with your fixation. She doesn’t need us guys panting after him, too.” The Wolf Pack lives in an eternal struggle of No Homo. quote:Pissed as I was, I still felt guilty when I watched the spasm of pain shoot across her face. I'm not sure when it got explained, or if it even got explained yet (these books are just a morass at this point), but Leah's temper is partially because the unexpected transformation of her into a werewolf is what caused Harry's heart attack in New Moon. She blames herself for it. quote:Because her words were still there, scratching themselves into my brain, the pain of it so strong that I could hardly breathe. It's fine to be scared about Bella's future, but sexually assaulting her is probably not the way you go about fixing it. quote:My hands were shaking in spite of me. What shook them? Anger? Agony? I wasn’t sure what I was fighting now. This is another place where a third-person perspective that let us see what was going on with everyone would help. Instead of putting it in an epilogue, we could have had the knowledge the entire time that the scent of vampires triggered an instinct in the werewolves to kill them. It would have made Paul's attack on the Cullens at the beginning of the book much more understandable, rather than solidifying him as a dangerous liability. It would have made all of the tension in their alliance much more meaningful, including Victoria's belief during their fight that Seth would just turn and kill Edward no reason. quote:I watched the swells roll toward the beach. They disappeared from sight under the edge of the cliff, but I heard them beat against the sand. I watched them until it was late, long after dark. Jacob calling a sling "retarded" is the best sign of when this book was written. quote:Going hungry started to look better when I walked in the house and got a look at my dad’s face. He had something on his mind. It was easy to tell—he always overdid it. Acted all casual. Why can't these fuckers just be nice to their dads? quote:He waited briefly for my response, but didn’t seem to see my blank, bored-out-of-my-mind expression. Most days that bugged him. I wished he would shut up about Leah. I was trying not to think about her. Jacob is not a clever boy. quote:It was some heavy, stiff paper. Expensive. Too fancy for Forks. The card inside was the same, too done-up and formal. Bella’d had nothing to do with this. There was no sign of her personal taste in the layers of see-through, petal-printed pages. I’d bet she didn’t like it at all. I didn’t read the words, not even to see the date. I didn’t care. Some of us just like fountain pens, dude. quote:I flipped it open. Well that's oddly kind of him to-- quote:“Jake, we only have the one table,” Billy said. He was staring at my left hand. Okay that makes him angry I guess. He was fine with it two chapters ago, but whatever! quote:I was running before I hit the trees, my clothes strewn out behind me like a trail of crumbs—as if I wanted to find my way back. It was almost too easy now to phase. I didn’t have to think. My body already knew where I was going and, before I asked it to, it gave me what I wanted. This is so much cooler than following Bella! Like, this is actually kind of interesting to read by comparison! quote:A new voice sounded in my head. How the gently caress did she write an epilogue that actually has an interesting sense of perspective and still stick with what we got in the next book? Midnight Sun is similar, as it's from Edward's perspective and thus lets you see how his mind reading works all the time. It's far more interesting to read than the original Twilight, but is marred by Edward being so inhuman and such a douchebag that it inadvertently makes his relationship with Bella seem way creepier. Robert Pattinson was given a copy to read for his character research and it left him disgusted. quote:So much better. Now I could hear the faint rustle of the matted leaves beneath my toenails, the whisper of an owl’s wings above me, the ocean—far, far in the west—moaning against the beach. Hear this, and nothing more. Feel nothing but speed, nothing but the pull of muscle, sinew, and bone, working together in harmony as the miles disappeared behind me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j1um7l84eY And we're done. God, I thought we'd really find something when I started this thread. Anything at all that would justify the popularity of this series. I can't imagine how wrong I was. Every time we got something interesting, it was replaced by something boring. It presents an insidious view of romance and relationships to a young audience, justifying horrific behaviors on the part of your partner as a sign of sufficient love to you and encouraging forgiveness even for repeat sexual assaults and manipulative threats. Almost every character has had their personalities damaged beyond repair to create conflict until we have a cast of sociopaths and weirdos. This plodding mess of a book will only get worse with Breaking Dawn, a monstrous 756 pages split into three parts that covers Bella's wedding, honeymoon, pregnancy, and the horrific aftermath. For the sake of my sanity, I'm going to take a break before covering it. Instead, join me here where we read a book that manages to be grosser yet funnier to laugh at. And when that's done, I'll see all you motherfuckers back here to finally tell Bella and Edward to gently caress off for good.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:26
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I know you're taking a mental health break before Breaking Dawn - do you see yourself doing Midnight Sun at all? The Bree Tanner book?
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Feb 28, 2020 17:14
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Dienes posted:I know you're taking a mental health break before Breaking Dawn - do you see yourself doing Midnight Sun at all? The Bree Tanner book? Doubtful? If there's a lot of demand I would consider it, but Meyer's writing never really improves so it's always a slog. Bree Tanner's story doesn't add much to the actual universe except what I brought up in this thread already and Midnight Sun generally serves as a way to make Edward look even worse as a person. I mentioned in the OP that my intent was to build up through this to reading the EL James books. I actually decided to do things a little differently since the Fifty Shades series has been covered so much. I have a copy of Master of the Universe, the original Twilight fanfic that got turned into Fifty Shades of Grey. That will be our bridge as we see a bizarre alternate universe of the Twilight series, then we'll move on to Grey and Darker, which retell the first two books from Christian Grey's perspective. Jenny Trout couldn't even get through Grey because it was so disturbing and came off as the diary of a serial killer.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:35
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chitoryu12 posted:then we'll move on to Grey and Darker, which retell the first two books from Christian Grey's perspective. Jenny Trout couldn't even get through Grey because it was so disturbing and came off as the diary of a serial killer. I mean, makes sense since he's literally based off a serial killer character.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:39
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Guilty Twilight fan checking in...29, a guy, and the endless butt of "he must be gay" jokes from my wife and mother-in-law. (That being said, my wife bought me the series as a gift and is always looking for the movies for me at Goodwill). I ridiculed the gently caress out of this when it first came out and then I realized I actually really love the love story element of it, even though it's all hosed up. I suppose I'm a sucker for trashy fiction. I still make an effort to try to read it once a year at least.
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Feb 28, 2020 19:31
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Stuff like that makes me kind of interested in the werewolf story again but then I remember RAPE RAPE RAEP and yeah, naw. I can’t really see the appeal either. While we can all joke about teenage girls’ psychology as much as we want, I have a hard time believing that so many people would either identify with one of these awful characters or at the very least want to see them succeed. See you all in the Control thread! Midjack fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Feb 28, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 20:28
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This series is so horrible in the best way. If nothing else, these books are the perfect reason why death of the author is such a terrible theory. Discerning what she was actually going for with so many of these scenes is so much fun. My favorite part is actually all the unintentionally interesting or compelling parts of the setting that Meyer consistently abandons in favor of making the worst love triangle in history drag on.
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Feb 28, 2020 23:30
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I’d forgotten about the epilogue and how utterly poo poo everyone is to Leah Clearwater. So awful in fact one chapter-by-chapter review had a running tally for every time she was poorly treated for no reason that ended up in the dozens.
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Feb 29, 2020 09:53
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I've legit never posted in this forum, and stumbled into this thread the other night because I read these books right around the time they came out. I think the fourth one came out while I was in the middle of the third, on deployment, and seemingly every guy on my ship was reading this because their wives back home were. I thought it was horrible and creepy then, and this has done nothing to change my opinion, but gently caress me if i didn't just mainline this entire thread over the last two days. Honestly i wish you weren't taking the break, because even knowing how bad it is I just want to get into the fourth book and have it be loving over. Legitimately thank you for doing this.
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Feb 29, 2020 23:19
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iwentdoodie posted:I've legit never posted in this forum, and stumbled into this thread the other night because I read these books right around the time they came out. I think the fourth one came out while I was in the middle of the third, on deployment, and seemingly every guy on my ship was reading this because their wives back home were. Thank you very much! My Revelator thread shouldn't be very long, so I'll be back in here pretty quickly this year.
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Mar 1, 2020 07:54
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Binged this thread in a week, what a ride. Does anyone else think it's kind of gruesome that Meyer's tie-in novella focuses on a child who only exists to gets murdered? It's like 200 pages of first-person narrative that ends with her literally being ripped to shreds. That's hosed up.
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Mar 1, 2020 19:52
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