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I would go so far as to say that if you don't like Love & Monsters I'm not sure what you're getting out of Doctor Who.
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Mar 3, 2020 13:06
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I liked the Timeless child episode, the reveal I have no strong feelings for either way until I see if anything is done with it. I also liked Love and Monsters, wasn't great (why must Peter Kay be Peter Kay) but it was a fine episode.
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Mar 3, 2020 13:30
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Hee-hee https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1234784153452843010?s=20
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Mar 3, 2020 14:52
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Love and Monsters is ok but has a terrible terrible finish. I like third person episodes, though. Need more third person episodes.
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Mar 3, 2020 15:06
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Honestly the Timeless Child twist isn't all that different from what Moffatt gave us with Matt Smith, where The Doctor was the most important and precious person in the entire universe and we were constantly being reminded of that at all times.
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Mar 3, 2020 15:20
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It is a bit, given that the Matt Smith era way of doing it was actually something that arose from the Doctor's actions, and not "lore" delivered in a 50 minute lecture by the most boring version of the Master yet written. Also a very big theme of Smith's last three episodes is that he chose to be the Doctor, he wasn't just born special and good.
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Mar 3, 2020 15:25
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There was like, one episode where he had to kill himself to save the universe and then it turned out there were a bunch of messages from people offering to help him because of all the good he'd done. Also another episode where his timeline got deleted and a bunch of stars went out because of all the worlds he now never saved. Hardly "constant" and frankly a continuation of the Russell T Davies years Man must Clara have been surprised when she jumped into the Doctor's timeline, got back to the First Doctor and then realised the timeline kept going. E: Heaven Sent is now a metaphor for the series as a whole. We follow the character from a certain point and then suddenly realise the one we've been following is the seven thousandth iteration of basically the same thing 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 3, 2020 |
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Mar 3, 2020 15:31
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Hey so what was actually up with those Ireland bits? Was that one of the Doctor's missions or some sort of fake memory and in that case why? Why were the two dudes still the same age? Was it just some absolute fanwank about humans thinking Gallifrey is somewhere in Ireland?
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Mar 3, 2020 16:12
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Organza Quiz posted:Hey so what was actually up with those Ireland bits? Was that one of the Doctor's missions or some sort of fake memory and in that case why? Why were the two dudes still the same age? Was it just some absolute fanwank about humans thinking Gallifrey is somewhere in Ireland? It was an allegorical remnant memory of her life in Section 31 and before the mind wipe that reset her as 1. Kid gets found, gets raised and adopted, falls off a cliff but then survives etc etc.
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Mar 3, 2020 16:22
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The way I see it, Doctor Who is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa, the bad things don’t always spoil the good things and make them unimportant.
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Mar 3, 2020 16:47
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https://twitter.com/jonnelledge/status/1234869067716136960?s=21
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Mar 3, 2020 16:53
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Gravastars posted:The way I see it, Doctor Who is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa, the bad things don’t always spoil the good things and make them unimportant. Except when they dump a huge steaming pile of poo poo on us like they did Sunday. Then everything is covered in poo poo.
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Mar 3, 2020 16:54
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Why would someone hate an episode that ends with a guy saying he fucks a paving tile?
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Mar 3, 2020 17:21
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This is odd, I'm the one in the position of thinking it wasn't that bad when I expected to be the one arguing it wasn't that great. The Big Twist doesn't actually bother me at all? Like if you wanna argue nature v nurture, the Doc did have her memory wiped of all that Division stuff and then decided she was bored and to steal a TARDIS with her granddaughter, etc. New person, clean slate, wasn't at all thinking about anything else. Granted Ruth having a Police Box too is... weird. I dunno, may just be a coincidence. But like that I don't mind, it's a weird wrinkle, the Doctor now doesn't really know where she's from or how she ended up here, there's some potential in that. Also did not mind the "Cyber Time Lords" having silly hats and all, because OF COURSE the Master would do that. Things I do mind, the climax being Parting of the Ways except instead of Rose it's some guy who's like "This is fine, I'm kinda actually responsible for all this, long story, just run". That was cheap (and you could see it happening because earlier he's like "Well I've lived a long time, I'm not expecting to survive this.") Also things I mind, the Time Lords being all dead again. In the long term this... doesn't actually enhance the story much, like it was a thing for the Doctor to be shook by for a few episodes. Did kinda feel like Chibnall didn't like Moffat bringing Gallifrey back so he's like "No, gone again!" Granted this seems like it's more easily reversed, not from a plot perspective but from the perspective of this not really being as important as the Time War so undoing it would be no biggie. (Also, HOW did the Master do all that? Like, yeah, he's a supervillain and has accomplished some big things, and it'd be hard to visualize this, but... seriously did he just flip a switch or something.) And as much as I'm enjoying Sacha Dhawan, maybe making the whole infodump... an infodump was a problem. I dunno, a lot of it was entertaining in the moment. Dhawan's performance, impeccable. The monster stuff, fine, there were a lot of cool scenes, but it lacks cohesion.
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Mar 3, 2020 17:22
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*watches finale* *literally throws teacup across the room at the reveal* Alright, fine, whatever, Time Lords are dicks, that's nothing new
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Mar 3, 2020 18:17
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Maxwell Lord posted:The Big Twist doesn't actually bother me at all? Like if you wanna argue nature v nurture, the Doc did have her memory wiped of all that Division stuff and then decided she was bored and to steal a TARDIS with her granddaughter, etc. New person, clean slate, wasn't at all thinking about anything else. You summed up my feelings on the episode succinctly. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 3, 2020 |
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Mar 3, 2020 18:22
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yeah It's not quite a Moffat final episode crash, but it feels more like a stage magician making a mistake on stage and pretending it didn't happen. It went boink.
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Mar 3, 2020 18:54
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This is a show about a magical time traveling alien who fights genocidal trash cans, the fact that some people are getting so worked up over that twist is bizarre to me.
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Mar 3, 2020 18:55
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I don't get why you're so shocked that people who care about Doctor Who care about what happens in Doctor Who.
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Mar 3, 2020 19:09
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you can have a ridiculous premise and not have poo poo writing it's a fine aspiration, sometimes this show even pulls it off
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Mar 3, 2020 19:13
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The current showrunner has rewritten the backstory of a 57 year old show in a way which clashes with the plots of a number of previous episodes, to suit his own tastes. That's bound to rub people the wrong way. He presumably has a lot of confidence that he can stick the landing with this, so I guess let's wait and see for the next series in... 2022 or so?
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Mar 3, 2020 19:15
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2house2fly posted:The current showrunner has rewritten the backstory of a I refuse to recognise the existence of the time lords
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Mar 3, 2020 19:27
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The episode itself was pretty fun. Cyberlords were hilarious. Master's plan was bonkers but had the right scale and energy for the Master's plan. I'm not sure about destroying Gallifrey again. It's okay if it's destroyed, but I feel like a lot of emotional energy went into finding out it was okay and then recovering it. And then it just gets destroyed again. This is going to make the 50th feel kind of pointless in retrospect. A story that makes previous stories worse is... not ideal. But that's not a huge deal. The Lone Cyberman was as interesting a villain as the Cybermen have basically ever been. Even if he did ultimately have a dumb plan that got upstaged by the Master, that all really worked for me. The episode was pretty enjoyable nonsense overall. Except... DoctorWhat posted:i'm loving furious. this magical destiny crap is fascist as hell. I had to do a lot of compartmentalizing to enjoy anything else about this episode, because this twist is utter loathsome trash. Doctor Who, a compassionate anarchistic renegade hero, is in secret actual fact a chosen aristocrat of special birth. Like, I'm not wringing my hands over pre-Hartnel regenerations, or even a secret-secret police hidden past. I think the name "Doctor" and the police box tardis are dumb continuity problems, but whatever. It's 100% the special magical destiny crap. The implication being to be a great person you need to have a special origin or some poo poo. I was actually on board with the start of that backstory because it emphasized that Time Lords were just some random schlubs who, for one reason or another, found themselves with a lot of power. That was a good message. But the following twist that the Time Lords were nothing special but the Doctor was, just completely undercut everything we thought we valued about the Doctor. Her great compassion or intelligence or whatever else is positive about her... these aren't things anyone else can necessarily aspire to. They might be the natural consequences of her being the special ~Timeless Child~ Why are we telling stupid loving stories like this in 2020? Perhaps children can continue to dream that maybe one day they'll feel like they have value by discovering they were adopted and their real parents were special.
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Mar 3, 2020 19:37
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I mean the Doctor always came from a place of privilege. She was always from the aristocratic class, someone who could travel freely and not worry about money or work or having a place to sleep and could just go around and do things. It's sort of an archetype, the quaint English eccentric who can afford to be eccentric. She uses that power for good, absolutely, but part of her character has always been having this power of independence and using it to help the less fortunate.
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Mar 3, 2020 19:47
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I will say I'm not exactly shocked that Chibnall apparently gave the Doctor a brand new "magical destiny" origin that reeks of the Doctor apparently being just naturally superior, given that his run thus far has had some episodes with very sketchy premises (such as the Amazon-esque "workers should just accept their lot" one).
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Mar 3, 2020 19:47
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Rochallor posted:I would go so far as to say that if you don't like Love & Monsters I'm not sure what you're getting out of Doctor Who. I thought L&M was absolute garbage from top to bottom, and it still took Moffat's run to make me give up on modern DW.
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Mar 3, 2020 19:50
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Probably it'll turn out whatever race the Doctor actually comes from is evil, so the Doctor can still be a self-made good person and all that. Like Rey being nice even though her grandad is the emperor
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Mar 3, 2020 20:01
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I am just shocked at how loving terrible the writing on this show has become overall. Jodie deserves so much better.
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Mar 3, 2020 20:14
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Rassilon being the Timeless Child would have been more coherent, just to add "wasn't really from Gallifrey, just made stuff up to add to his legend" to the list of bad things Rassilon has done. It's pretty consistent with his character. Yas and Ryan have been pretty dull companions - I feel bad for the actors, because they're trying, but haven't been giving any characterisation to work with. Graham feels like the only complete character, and Bradley Walsh has the best chemistry with Whittaker. Bill was a great companion because she had an arc and personality, Ryan and Yas feel like they're kinda...there. Again, not the fault of the actors, its the writing.
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Mar 3, 2020 21:39
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Rhyno posted:I am just shocked at how loving terrible the writing on this show has become overall. Jodie deserves so much better. I could swear I read this said ad nauseam but about Peter Capaldi. I'm sure someone has said say the same about Matt Smith's and Tenant's run and maybe even many of the classic Doctors. I guess my point is that Doctor Who doesn't seem like the pinnacle of great writing yes somehow it manages to be a fun show regardless.
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Mar 3, 2020 21:45
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Every Doctor has been let down by the writing at some point, this is just routine. To be completely honest, I’ve never watched Doctor Who for the plot or the lore, I’m here for the portrayal of the Doctor and (to a lesser extent) the companions. Which isn’t to say that poo poo writing is inexcusable, it’s just that it doesn’t bother me as much here as it would on something else.
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Mar 3, 2020 21:50
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RTD era: The Force Awakens Moffat era: The Last Jedi Cibnall era: The Rise of Skywalker
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Mar 3, 2020 22:09
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The Force Awakens is really terrible though.
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Mar 3, 2020 22:22
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Rhyno posted:The Force Awakens is really terrible though. So it's a pretty apt comparison then 
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Mar 3, 2020 22:35
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Rhyno posted:The Force Awakens is really terrible though. I was going to say, could we swap RTD and Moffat
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Mar 3, 2020 22:35
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This is more of an analogy than 1:1 comparisons.
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Mar 3, 2020 22:36
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Force Awakens is RTD's big emotions schtick without his focus on political and social issues Last Jedi is Moffat's fondness for writerliness and playing with story elements and structure, without his sitcom-honed talent for snappy dialogue Rise Of Skywalker is a list of things Bob Iger wrote on a napkin while having a fit of madness and handed to the scriptwriter and said "make sure all these are in the movie" and I'm not qualified to say how applicable that is to Chibs
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Mar 3, 2020 22:44
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How many bodies has the Master had now anyway?
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Mar 3, 2020 22:53
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OldMemes posted:How many bodies has the Master had now anyway? I vaguely recall that it's nine or ten official in the show, depending on if you count CGI Snake.
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Mar 3, 2020 22:55
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Cleretic posted:I vaguely recall that it's nine or ten official in the show, depending on if you count CGI Snake. Why would you not?
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Mar 3, 2020 22:57
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