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Lizard Combatant posted:The kid was fine, but couldn't she have solved to homeworld mystery because she's interested in astronomy and yearns to be an explorer or something? Instead of having her friend sir-not-appearing-in-this-film solve it via text message? Probably, it was such a minor thing that it didn't really bug me, and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if that guy did show up at some point considering they namedropped him multiple times like we were supposed to recognize the name
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Mar 5, 2020 18:21
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Probably, it was such a minor thing that it didn't really bug me, and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if that guy did show up at some point considering they namedropped him multiple times like we were supposed to recognize the name Sure but it just made her character an exposition dump and an excuse to just retell poo poo we already know to pad the runtime.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:23
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Senor Tron posted:Regarding replicated food in this episode: If she's never eaten a non-replicated tomato then she's definitely never eaten real meat before. That romulan guy Narek would say otherwise heyooooooo
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Mar 5, 2020 18:31
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Lizard Combatant posted:Sure but it just made her character an exposition dump and an excuse to just retell poo poo we already know to pad the runtime. I don't think it did? It was a short scene and other important stuff was going on during the scene. Plus, how is it retelling if none of the characters (or us) knew where they were going until she found it? Obviously "an unnamed planet in a system we've never heard of" doesn't do a ton for us, the viewers, but it's a pretty critical revelation for the other characters.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:32
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There's some annoying stuff, but I really like the series so far. I know nostalgia is working in the show's favor for me but a lot of the stuff that apparently gets under some people's skin just doesn't bug me that much. This episode also got me to care more about Soji. I don't think it was a waste of runtime, all the character interactions were good from my perspective. Though Rios' suspicion of Raffi seems a bit weird if they've known each other for a long time. Though addiction can cause a lot of problems. It feels like they're going to blame Raffi for the doctor's coma, and then later find in the replicator record that she made that hypospray but it'll be too late because they've already alienated Raffi. Regardless I am glad they made this show and that I get to watch it, it's pretty good.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:33
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I don't think it did? It was a short scene and other important stuff was going on during the scene. Plus, how is it retelling if none of the characters (or us) knew where they were going until she found it? Obviously "an unnamed planet in a system we've never heard of" doesn't do a ton for us, the viewers, but it's a pretty critical revelation for the other characters. I meant the entire excursion to the planet where Soji gets to tell her story to kid, then Troi, then Riker. While Picard tells the same story to Soji, then Troi, then Riker. Then they have a dinner scene where they all talk about more stuff we all know. I find characters just catching up to the audience when there's no meaningful goals and obstacles really boring. Think of great exposition scenes where two characters hold certain amounts of info that each other wants, and there's this dance to getting what they want from each other. The reveal of exposition becomes motivated and we learn at the same time as the characters do. Sometimes this kind of catchup Picard constantly does is inevitable, but we're always ahead of the characters in this show whilst simultaneously knowing gently caress all about the larger mystery. Take the meeting scene in the first Pirates of the Caribbean between Jack Sparrow and Will Turner in the prison (this is just an example I'm assuming everyone knows, and I'm sure it's on YouTube if you want to see good exposition in broad appeal media), both want something from each other and there's this constantly shifting power dynamic in the scene that's motivated entirely by character, and we the audience learn a fuckton of exposition about characters, world and plot without ever noticing. Or really any of their scenes together - the scene after they hijack the ship is even better since it uses action (trapping Will on the boom, etc...) to visually demonstrate this power dynamic. Of course I liked seeing Troi and Riker but none of that poo poo needed to happen, they could have just been allowed to escape back to the ship when Soji gets out of control, and the Romulans follow them to the homeworld as planned. Plus if the actual location is so simple that some offscreen rando can deduce it in 2 minutes based on gently caress all info, it's all just drawing stuff out needlessly. There were some good bits in the episode, particularly in the preformances, but with the predictable dead kid backstory the pointless Hugh capture and death, the Rios thinks Raffi is suss subplot, etc... It all felt incredibly like wheels spinning. I got very little out of that one. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 18:56
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Lizard Combatant posted:
The whole show feels like a series of web exclusive short clips meant to promote something else during a mid season break or something, everything is streeettcchhheeddd out so you'll keep watching. This episode reminded me of visiting a dying relative. It was nice to see Frakes and Sirtis but jumping christ I guess nobody can ever just loving retire and live happily ever after without suffering some massive personal trauma anymore. I don't think Star Trek nostalgia has the intended effect on me anymore. e: at least we got some more commadore cool
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Mar 5, 2020 19:02
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I’m not sure I understand how an episode where Soji deals with the trauma of the “you’re an android and your whole life is a lie!” revelation and Picard gets some sense knocked into him to act like TNG Picard again is useless filler? It’s a needed emotional reset for both characters after all the poo poo they’ve been through.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:03
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I thought it was pretty important to have Riker and Troi finally knock some sense into Picard. People have been clamoring since the start that it's weird how they're portraying him in a number of different ways, and I think this episode did a lot to deal with that head-on. It was also nice to take a brief breather and let Soji process and try to move forward - a lot of shows/movies tend to drag a character through trauma after revelation after trauma without letting them deal with any of it. As far as the location being a big or not-big deal, I don't think it was perfect, but I also don't think it was awful. Would it have been better if they did a "4 hours later" type deal where Picard triumphantly comes out of the bedroom going "well it took me a while but I think I found it!" Honestly, someone earlier mentioned how absurd the concept of "identify a single planet in the galaxy literally only on the basis of "2 red moons and lightning" is in general, so I really don't think there was any "good" way to expose that information. Basically this: Big Mean Jerk posted:I’m not sure I understand how an episode where Soji deals with the trauma of the “you’re an android and your whole life is a lie!” revelation and Picard gets some sense knocked into him to act like TNG Picard again is useless filler? It’s a needed emotional reset for both characters after all the poo poo they’ve been through.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:04
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I’m not sure I understand how an episode where Soji deals with the trauma of the “you’re an android and your whole life is a lie!” revelation and Picard gets some sense knocked into him to act like TNG Picard again is useless filler? It’s a needed emotional reset for both characters after all the poo poo they’ve been through. That wasn't what I had issue with at all, they could have achieved all of this with our existing characters in a way that furthered the plot more organically and didn't require a detour to nostalgia ranch via a deus ex machina machine. Presentation not content. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 19:07
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That was a good episode. Loved the Riker-Troi's, but I'm annoyed they killed off Hugh. Didn't like that at all, I wanted more of him. I really liked that Troi did some councillor stuff without being able to use her powers. Kind of makes up for that bad TNG episode where she apparently was totally incapable of doing her job without reading people's minds. Their daughter was cool, and their place was really nice. I want to try the Riker pizza made from poisonous rabbits. I didn't mind at all that there wasn't much plot development on Rikerworld, I really enjoyed the character stuff. The vision shown to Agnes in the mind meld didn't feel like it would be enough to instantly convince her, but I guess we will have to wait til we find out the terrible secret of space to see how it all fits together. I'm not sure about the significance of the mind meld as evidence for Oh being a Romulan or a Vulcan, it would be dumb for Romulans evolve so much to lose the ability after only a few thousand years of separation, but this is Star Trek biology so who knows. Also we have seen non-Vulcans use other signature Vulcan abilities like the nerve pinch before, so I'm still thinking she's a Romulan. Next week. be good to see some more Seven. I had forgotten about the SOS thing she gave them so I was surprised to see her, I had assumed she was just going to be in the one episode.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:13
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marktheando posted:
Yeah as I said, this was the redeeming moment for her inclusion. Riker and kid(s) less so.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:16
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marktheando posted:...that bad TNG episode where she apparently was totally incapable of doing her job without reading people's minds. I re-watched that not too long ago, and if i recall correctly, the whole point at the end of that episode was she COULD do her job without them, but that having had those abilities her entire life, she was in a state of shock losing them at first until she started ~believing in herself~.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:36
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Probably, it was such a minor thing that it didn't really bug me, and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if that guy did show up at some point considering they namedropped him multiple times like we were supposed to recognize the name The way his "broken down ship" is mentioned leads me to expect we'll see another vintage starship cameo.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:37
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Longbaugh01 posted:I re-watched that not too long ago, and if i recall correctly, the whole point at the end of that episode was she COULD do her job without them, but that having had those abilities her entire life, she was in a state of shock losing them at first until she started ~believing in herself~. I'm sure that's what they were going for, but they didn't pull it off very well.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:45
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Seven's little SOS transmitter just happening to have been dropped by Picard, such that it wound up hanging from an unsunk space nail or whatever, at perfect eye level for the desk that Elnor is hiding under, is a bit dumb. No, it's a lot dumb. I was sad when Hugh went out. I wanted to see those two go on a roaring rampage of revenge. I wanted to see Hugh plug himself back in to the cube, full of fear and trepidation but pissed as gently caress about his beloved XBs, go straight back into Collective mode, animate the cube to tear the gently caress out of all the Romulans, then visibly pull himself back to humanity, set the cube to assplode, then get hauled out by Elnor, setting up the Ultimate Evolution of Star Trek Spinoffs: Star Trek: Elnor and Hugh. Also, Will: You've black hair. Your wife has black hair. Your daughter has bright blonde hair. You need to ask some questions, mate.
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Mar 5, 2020 20:29
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TheCenturion posted:Also, Will: You've black hair. Your wife has black hair. Your daughter has bright blonde hair. You need to ask some questions, mate. I too wondered about this, but then also thought there might be some genetic hereditary explanation I've forgotten about.
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Mar 5, 2020 20:39
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TheCenturion posted:I wanted to see those two go on a roaring rampage of revenge. I wanted to see Tune in next week! (because they literally show a good chunk of this in the preview)
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Mar 5, 2020 20:41
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Longbaugh01 posted:I too wondered about this, but then also thought there might be some genetic hereditary explanation I've forgotten about. I’m gonna take a wild guess and say hair dye still exists in the 24th century
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Mar 5, 2020 20:43
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Longbaugh01 posted:I too wondered about this, but then also thought there might be some genetic hereditary explanation I've forgotten about. Well the kid is only like 3/4 human, who knows what rules betazoid hair colour inheritance follows.. Or she dyes her hair.
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Mar 5, 2020 20:43
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The sister she's named after had blonde hair too iirc
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Mar 5, 2020 20:55
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Tune in next week! (because they literally show a good chunk of this in the preview) I know. But I wanted it to be Hugh. I think it would have been far more powerful and right to see Hugh, after having spent decades not only regaining his humanity, but helping other Borg reclaim there whatever-ity, fully manifest his humanity in rage, and grief, and a desire for vengeance, but then to then hold on to the better angels of his humanity by not giving in fully to being re-assimilated.
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Mar 5, 2020 20:57
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TheCenturion posted:Also, Will: You've black hair. Your wife has black hair. Your daughter has bright blonde hair. You need to ask some questions, mate. Blonde hair is a recessive gene, and black hair is a dominant gene. They could both have a blonde hair gene they passed onto their daughter while not having it themselves. It's relatively uncommon, but still happens.
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Mar 5, 2020 21:18
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I always thought Sirtis was at her best in any scene where she was doing therapy, rather than saying obvious things on the bridge, and they gave her some great material to work with this ep. Probably the best performance I've seen from her, very impressive. I've always felt Troi was an underused and poorly used character who had a few standout eps, and the reason that she remained a likable and popular character was wholly down to Sirtis and her chemistry with whoever she was acting across from. Loved the whole thing with Picard/Riker/Troi, as ever it's impossible to separate my nostalgia for TNG in order to objectively assign quality, but I can say when Riker put his hand on Picard's shoulder and said "Whatever you need, we'll do it" (much like Hugh did a few eps ago) it made me feel real human feelings. One thing I didn't like was Rios' suspicion of Raffi. I thought that they basically instantly clocked what was going on and they were going to try the soft sell to wheedle exactly how Agnes was in on it, and I was even more sure of that when Rios said "what about Raffi, do you think she's behind it" but then he goes upstairs and actually thinks that. SMH Rios! Also, you think anyone ever chooses life? zoux fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 21:40
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Snow Cone Capone posted:... Yeah, the ship plot is going to be tedious as gently caress next week almost guaranteed.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:28
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zoux posted:
Yeah, the RIker/Troi stuff was quite fanservicey and clearly added in late, but it shows a level of potential for the show that makes the rest of it seem a lot worse, akin to the Hugh/Picard interactions last episode. I'm just going to go on a limb and say their decision to minimize the TNG cast hurt the show a lot as it denied them easier character moments where Picard could interact with people both he and we as the audience know. I'm not being all that fair to the new cast members, but they really come off as empty suits compared to Troi and Riker, neither of whom were the most compelling characters in TNG, either.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:34
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You know, now that I think about it, and I know someone mentioned part of this earlier, but in regards to the "ship chase" scene: Rios' initial plan is to drop out of warp and let Nerak (or wtf his name is) overshoot them, and Rios explains it by saying that Nerak won't notice they've dropped out of warp until it's too late? How?! He's right loving behind them! How would he not notice?!
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Mar 5, 2020 22:36
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I thought they were going to do a Portal reference with the cake. I thought they were going to lace it with something to get her to tell them why she's so keen to not catch up with Picard and Soji
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Mar 5, 2020 22:38
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Longbaugh01 posted:You know, now that I think about it, and I know someone mentioned part of this earlier, but in regards to the "ship chase" scene: Rios' initial plan is to drop out of warp and let Nerak (or wtf his name is) overshoot them, and Rios explains it by saying that Nerak won't notice they've dropped out of warp until it's too late? How?! He's right loving behind them! How would he not notice?! It was an insanely strange decision to open with a shot of Nerek right behind them.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:38
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Longbaugh01 posted:You know, now that I think about it, and I know someone mentioned part of this earlier, but in regards to the "ship chase" scene: Rios' initial plan is to drop out of warp and let Nerak (or wtf his name is) overshoot them, and Rios explains it by saying that Nerak won't notice they've dropped out of warp until it's too late? How?! He's right loving behind them! How would he not notice?! The dialog there was awkward as hell but it makes more sense if you consider it as reaction time at that speed.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:40
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Nullsmack posted:The dialog there was awkward as hell but it makes more sense if you consider it as reaction time at that speed. Oh I did, and I still don't like the whole thing along with what someone said earlier about how tailing ships has "historically" been from light years away because that's how good sensors are.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:41
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Panzeh posted:It was an insanely strange decision to open with a shot of Nerek right behind them. "He's good, he's staying right at the edge of La Sirena's sensor range". Dude your ships sensors suck poo poo (I mean the real reason is because of the visual but yeah I thought that too) Also when they handed Pill the, uh, pill and she instantly ate it I was fully expecting Oh to go, no you just hide it in your luggage Jesus Christ Are Romulans as fully jacked as their Vulcan cousins? Vulcans are what, 3x as strong as a baseline human?
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Mar 5, 2020 22:45
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Gotta say I'm not enjoying their continual murdering of every side character from the previous era in the name of "prestige" drama.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:52
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zoux posted:Also, you think anyone ever chooses life? I’m guessing no. Especially when the guy going “Please my friend, choose to live.” Is a weedyass boy with a tiny toothpick sword. And it is literally too late for them to realize their mistake because they don’t have an enclosed skull cavity anymore. 
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Mar 5, 2020 22:53
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Also I totally forgot that Troi's creepy ghost sister was named Kestra. And played by Kirsten Dunst!. Kid actors are always hit or miss but I thought she did a great job, precocious but still believably 12ish.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:57
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Watching Babylon 5 for the first time in my life with PIC back to back...raises more questions that I would like to admit. Or even to acknowledge to myself. This is heart-breaking but from one point of view PIC is what lizard combatant says. OR The whole plotline of the season is to show how Picard's depressed escape broke him into shadow of his former self. He does jack poo poo half of screen time, he just witnesses whats happening, gets schooled on how the universe is far more cruel and dark than his Majestic Presence Of Perfectionism on a Flagship of sinless Utopian Federation, applauds Raffi's loss of a friend for a cause, generally being an ignorant dick to everyone else; which led to many problems and unnecessary deaths like Hugh. All his journey so far that would have been a perfect lossless story for TNG Picard turns out to be not quite good. But now, after this episode where he gets some truths shoved into his face he might come back to TNG Picard we loved and liked and everything will be 'my dads trek' back again? I hope it's this case, not what we saw so far. I hope Lizard Combatant is wrong and we will see ultimate character development in form of comeback from ignorant oval office of a former celebrity into Captain Jean Luc Picard.
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Mar 5, 2020 23:01
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Mar 5, 2020 23:04
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Panzeh posted:It was an insanely strange decision to open with a shot of Nerek right behind them. Also playing the conversation they were having on the bridge over shots of Narek following them. I assumed it meant that the tracking poo poo also allowed him to hear everything that Agnes did in which case it was like "well no plan they discuss will work since he'll hear it, also now he knows where you're going so he doesn't need to keep following you." But I guess that wasn't the case and it was just questionable directing.
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Mar 5, 2020 23:05
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, the RIker/Troi stuff was quite fanservicey and clearly added in late, but it shows a level of potential for the show that makes the rest of it seem a lot worse, akin to the Hugh/Picard interactions last episode. I'm just going to go on a limb and say their decision to minimize the TNG cast hurt the show a lot as it denied them easier character moments where Picard could interact with people both he and we as the audience know. I think some of that comes from a lot of the characters and backstories having assumed empathy where that's not a given. In all the previous series pilots the main characters (with a couple exceptions) are strangers to each other and we get to know them all as they get to know each other. Troi and Riker had a pre-existing relationship, but I think a lot of people would agree that wasn't a particularly interesting element in that show. Sisko and Dax too, but they had an interesting twist on that and in many ways it's Sisko getting to know an entirely new person whilst still reconnecting with an old friend/mentor. Picard introduces its new characters with a lot of existing baggage with Picard himself or others in the show. The show tells us all about their sordid histories together, but it's much harder to pull this off. You've got Picard and Raffi, Picard and Admiral Hubris, Raffi and Rios, Raffi and her son, Picard and Elnor, Seven and Vajazzle, Jurati and Maddox, Troi/Riker and their dead kid. Add to this that all these histories are overwhelmingly bitter and/or tragic and it's a loving drag. They come across to a lot of people as cheap drama and wholly unearned. Major Kira is great and one of my favourites, but I don't need a whole show of Kiras, you need contrast. Plus the Major is infinitely more interesting and her character arc mirrors that of an entire political conflict in the show. It's not surprising that the Picard and Elnor connection is the most well received one as it at least had more than average amounts of setup. So when Picard meets Hugh or Troi, there's actual established history there that people care about, we know what these characters mean to each other because we've seen it grow naturally. I couldn't care less about Raffi's son's barely contained rage in the same scene I'm just learning he even existed, when I haven't been given any reason to care about Raffi outside her connection to Picard that we're assured is very deep and meaningful. You can pull off prexisting relationships, but the writing has got to be a lot more interesting. Look at something like Better Call Saul and how that deals with his relationships with Kim, Chuck and Howard - it deftly brings you onside with Jimmy since we see them all from his persuasive point of view first before it starts layering in nuance and context to change our perceptions of them and Jimmy as a result. It doesn't work so well with really stock characters and their paint by numbers anguish. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 23:06
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zoux posted:"He's good, he's staying right at the edge of La Sirena's sensor range". Dude your ships sensors suck poo poo (I mean the real reason is because of the visual but yeah I thought that too) Also when they handed Pill the, uh, pill and she instantly ate it I was fully expecting Oh to go, no you just hide it in your luggage Jesus Christ Star Trek 09 shows Nero and his Romulan buddies tossing Kirk and Pike around like they’re toys, so yes. Also lol yeah I laughed when Jurati just woofed the tracker into her mouth without prompting and was half expecting Oh to be like “the gently caress are you doing?”. Killing Hugh was loving garbage though. And Seven’s space pager just... being there for Elnor to find was bullshit, but otherwise I liked this episode.
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Mar 5, 2020 23:07
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