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Its TNG 6x20 The Chase you are talking here. Progenitors lived aeons before any of trek denizens and they basically created all life in Milky Way, so everyone is somewhat compatible. Doesn't fall too well in line with all good things, but still plausible. One of my favourite episodes
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Mar 6, 2020 09:35
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Explain the Sheliak then or the Tholians The Chase was a fun episode but might be as bad as Threshold as far as how it relates to actual science. Evolution isn't 'directed' towards anything. ashpanash fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 09:37
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Evolution? From the material they seeded. As if anything in Treks relates to science. Treknobabble more like.
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Mar 6, 2020 09:44
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ashpanash posted:Explain the Sheliak then I think the assumption is that non-humanoid life is natural evolution, it's just forehead bumpies that are precursor. If I recall the fanwank on the science is that they encoded a mutation-resistant 'program' in seeming junk DNA which acted to select towards humanoid intelligence. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 09:46
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don't understand what the Romulans are doing. I've been a staunch defender of the show, but there are certainly plot holes present in the latest episode, though for me the only major one was actively tracking the ship. That clashes both because any Romulan secret group should have a cloaked ship hanging out where they're conducting a major operation. or parked nearby, and that's a better tracking ship, and because there really wasn't a need for one at that point. Sticking around to get intel and then clean up the mess overall is just good operational security, with the intel in hand they can act at leisure but Picard, Soji, Hugh, and the ship crew are all loose ends. I guess you can square the circle if they just don't have a cloaked ship ready and wanted to follow the ship back to Picard to blow him up later, and Rios is just a particularly badass captain who spotted the tail and would have been able to lose it if they weren't bugged already. It seems like we're getting "synths will lead to a new race of Borg" as the only plausible explanation for the Zhat Vasj's motivations, or at least the info the Doc was given, which you know, will work, but I think the show did itself a disservice by building this secret up as being quite this massive. If it's a predictable secret or combination of secrets then I won't find that particularly satisfying, and as much as I love and defend the show in general even I don't think they can pull a surprise twist to the mystery that's both really satisfying and makes the actions of various characters on the show make sense.
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Mar 6, 2020 10:55
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Mood watching this wonderful episode
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Mar 6, 2020 12:07
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Delthalaz posted:You know come to think about it, these hybrid children with parents from entirely different species that evolved on planets lightyears apart may be some of the most implausible conceits in star trek I mean, they explicitly show a clinic on freecloud that does the tweaking necessary to make it happen.
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Mar 6, 2020 12:49
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Delthalaz posted:You know come to think about it, these hybrid children with parents from entirely different species that evolved on planets lightyears apart may be some of the most implausible conceits in star trek Star Trek biology is definitely stupider than Star Trek physics or Star Trek chemistry. See also- any time genetic engineering, cloning, or evolution comes up.
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Mar 6, 2020 13:34
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Tiggum posted:To me, it was exactly what I don't want from STP. There was no good reason for those characters to be in the show. They didn't do anything that could only be done by them. It was literally just there to go "look guys, it's those characters you like from the other thing!" And, at best, it just got us up to a point we should already have been at, like, three episodes ago. I disagree with this. The Troi-Riker family did several things no one else may have been able to do: humanize Picard to Soji so she could at least start to trust his intentions break the fall of Soji learning what she is, and make it bearable to go forward Get Picard to start Picarding - he wouldn't have listened to anyone else Plus it was heartwarming and fun. There are whole episodes of material that should be cut before this reunion ep
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Mar 6, 2020 15:19
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^^ I agree with this. Others have basically told Picard what he represents to them. Troi told Picard who he is and needs to be again. ^^ I know I'm repeating what everyone else said, but Riker/Troi/Kestra are awesome and everyone on that planet was really good. Pizza Chef Riker was great, as was hearing him use the Riker voice a bit. I teared up when Troi saw Picard and it lingered on her starting to tear up. Troi getting to actually do her job for once was the best writing this show has had so far. I also loved her "[Soji] thinks she's human, is showing an anxiety attack, is presenting everything as normal and there's nothing inside. Hugh deserved so, so, so much better. It's total bullshit what they did to one of the more iconic guest stars from TNG. It felt like they were building him into going into revenge mode, and I thought they might protect him with the whole Federation citizen thing. I really, really wish they didn't make either the Romulans (and hopefully not the Borg too) into the bad guys. Looking back to Balance of Terror, there was that respect, the "In a different reality, I could have called you friend." I wanted to see a world where the Romulans didn't just fall back into being standard Romulans again, especially after the alliance of the Dominion War and the aftermath of Nemesis. Oh well.
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Mar 6, 2020 15:23
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The Troi-Rikers would be great to have as an aunt and uncle, even though Kestra would probably be an annoying cousin This just occurred to me: they didn't Terminator 2 Lore in Descent pt. II so he's conceivably out there in some crate next to the Ark of the Covenant right? Borg, synths, I dunno seems like it's right in his wheelhouse zoux fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 15:26
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Tiggum posted:
Good Christ you're a misery.
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Mar 6, 2020 15:38
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I definitely fell asleep hard a couple times during this but that's most likely on me. I'm gonna watch it again tonight, sitting up, because I got wayyy too comfy before clicking play this time around.
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Mar 6, 2020 15:40
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MichiganCubbie posted:^^ I agree with this. Others have basically told Picard what he represents to them. Troi told Picard who he is and needs to be again. ^^
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Mar 6, 2020 15:53
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DaveKap posted:Riker cabin stuff He grew up in Alaska and they also specifically said they went to live on that planet because they thought it might help their son’s condition zoux posted:This just occurred to me: they didn't Terminator 2 Lore in Descent pt. II so he's conceivably out there in some crate next to the Ark of the Covenant right? Borg, synths, I dunno seems like it's right in his wheelhouse Correct. Lore’s ultimate fate is unknown after being taken into Federation custody in a disassembled state, and is one of my lingering questions and wondering if he’ll have any role in this. Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Given the best episode of Star Trek in twenty-one years... I’m curious what episode you’re referring to?
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Mar 6, 2020 16:02
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Given the best episode of Star Trek in twenty-one years you're mithering about the good characters that were in it, because putting good characters in good scenes is bad somehow.
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Mar 6, 2020 16:07
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Yeah and it fuckin ruled
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Mar 6, 2020 16:10
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RLM has the theory that Lore will show up and that is certainly possible His fate after Descent is very ambiguous
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Mar 6, 2020 16:13
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Hasn't RLM been wrong about almost all their predictions for this show so far?
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Mar 6, 2020 16:19
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Tiggum posted:They were good characters in the show they were actually in. They're not in this show. It was a cameo. Instead of building up the characters that are actually sticking around; instead of moving the plot forward; instead of giving us something to care about that's actually part of this show, they gave us Riker and Troi because they were in the good show that people liked 30 years ago. Honestly Riker and Troi were two of the weaker characters in TNG and especially Troi came out pretty well in this ep. I do think this is wheel-spinning to a big degree, but then this show loves wheel-spinning with characters that don't work. An enormous amount of picard's character in TNG was his reactions to the ensemble he came with and leaving them out makes the character study aspects a lot worse.
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Mar 6, 2020 16:22
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An alternate scene where Picard forgets to cut communications with Rios before he poo poo-talks them to Riker
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Mar 6, 2020 16:31
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Count me as someone who has been wondering about Lore since the first inklings of this story came out. He also lines up with the idea of reclaimed Borg to a lesser extent. One interesting note if he's brought back is that he won't have his emotion chip anymore. Data took it, and while we don't know if he had it in when he died, it's safe to assume he did. I'd love to see an episode where Lore deals with Data's death, and maybe even learns to try to better himself with the help of humans instead of just being a bad guy again. Edit: I just looked it up on Memory Alpha and: Memory Alpha posted:However, a deleted scene included in the two disc Special Edition had Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge and Lt. Commander Worf going to Data's quarters to remove some of his items near the end of the film. La Forge took Data's emotion chip and Worf took Spot, Data's cat. One thing I forgot to mention is that Rios just keeps growing on me. I like him more and more. He's the best of the crew.
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Mar 6, 2020 16:40
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I thought Picard’s voice sounded stronger too when he joined them at the dinner table. Hopefully it carries forward because I get sad hearing how tired/old he sounds.
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Mar 6, 2020 16:45
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Lister posted:It's kind of worse than that. People have been saying how down everything seems to be with everyone and in this case the Sikarians, who are super nice and giving and happy, end up getting assimilated and their society destroyed. Looks like they should have just given Voyager that tech and maybe they wouldn't have ended up saving the the Borg from 8472! Sikarians: I think it's entirely possible that not all of them were assimilated given that they have the transporter tech that can send them 40,000+ lightyears away. At least some did, and the Borg got the tech, but they don't say anything more than that. The tech itself is a bit of a problem though. With it the Borg could just appear on any planet without warning and start assimilating people. I kind of wish Voyager would have encountered them more after that episode. Like, they are on a planet for some other reason and bump into a few Sikarians out of nowhere.
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Mar 6, 2020 16:55
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It would have been better if the Trajector technology was shown to be cripplingly power-consumptive - like they use it and the entire cube shuts down for 6 hours or something. RE: the Sikarians, wasn't their whole point the fact that they were happy and nice to the detriment of their security and general awareness?
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Mar 6, 2020 17:02
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Hasn't RLM been wrong about almost all their predictions for this show so far? I think they are also sticking with the idea that the ‘terrible secret’ is that the Romulans made the Borg
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Mar 6, 2020 17:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:Rich did correctly call that Jurati would be a spy, but that was easy I mean that one's been telegraphed hard for a while, I made that call several weeks ago ITT.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:16
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I’m thinking maybe someone lent their 2000s Battlestar Galactics DVD set to the Zhad Vajj (or they discovered it somehow) and they thought it was prophecy. maybe it played a similar role to the history book and that gangster planet in TOS.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:25
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It just occurred to me that the trajector being in the Queen Cell or whatever is meant to imply something about the queen(s) traveling from cube to cube which ..... 
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Mar 6, 2020 17:31
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The Bloop posted:It just occurred to me that the trajector being in the Queen Cell or whatever is meant to imply something about the queen(s) traveling from cube to cube which ..... I thought they were saying it was essentially used as an escape pod for the queen in case of emergencies.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:34
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Why would the Queen need an escape route for her physical body?
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Mar 6, 2020 17:36
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Well it's because the Borg Queen is a dumbass idea
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Mar 6, 2020 17:40
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Sounds about right. They really leaning into those.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:41
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zoux posted:Well it's because the Borg Queen is a dumbass idea It was fine when she was just an avatar for the collective (as Locutus was also) but then Voyager had her acting as an actual commander.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:43
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I know they explain it explicitly as an emergency escape for the queen, but I think it makes more sense if you see the queen as less "the leader of this cube" and more "the most logical Sole Survivor to escape and report to the Collective if necessary"
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Mar 6, 2020 17:49
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Why would the Queen need to report back via her physical body? Who would she be reporting to?
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Mar 6, 2020 17:51
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I still think the Borg act like a collective of collectives. There doesn't seem to be a single borg mind that includes all drones on all cubes everywhere, there is probably a physical speed limit to communication even for them, so the borg is more a communal organism with parts able to act independently or reabsorbed into the whole, much like the great link. In this way, a Queen might represent all the progress and important changes made to the collective on her cube(s) and physically trajecting her elsewhere may well be a meaningful preservation method for the advances made by that sphere that have yet to disseminate into the entire borg collective. That being said, instantiating the borg into a body probably, as a completely unintended side-effect, gives her a bit of individuality and the self-preservation drive that comes with it.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:51
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poo poo, they just need to enable more regular autosaves.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:56
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Lizard Combatant posted:Why would the Queen need to report back via her physical body? I dunno, kind of a living black box. I haven't seen enough Voyager or First Contact so it may be that all Borg, everywhere, are constantly connected instead of discrete groups on individual ships, but even if so, in the event of some catastrophe it kind of makes sense to have an emergency datastore ejection system.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:57
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Snow Cone Capone posted:emergency datastore ejection system. with TITS
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Mar 6, 2020 17:58
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