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Is it just because I grew up in the 90's that digital magic doesn't appeal to me? It's a collectable card game why would I want digital cards.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:33
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Nolgthorn posted:Is it just because I grew up in the 90's that digital magic doesn't appeal to me? It's a collectable card game why would I want digital cards. i like the physical activity of playing with cards, but essence of the game carries over to digital. it's just a set of rules.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:41
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I have found that it's a lot easier to play a few games as I have time on my computer than it is to always be available for FNM or whatever other night my LGS holds Magic. That said, I understand and agree with the idea of not wanting to poor large amounts of money into MTGO where you do not even technically own the product you're buying. Owning physical cards at least makes them yours and I absolutely prefer playing against a live person instead of an internet stranger. I tried modern on MTGO for a while a few years back when I had some extra money, and ended up selling out of it again. I started playing Arena the last few days and found it is a good middle ground. Very playable with only a few bucks spent (although I could see putting some more in), better than Duels of the Planeswalkers and a lot cheaper that MTGO. I could see buying into a pauper deck though again eventually.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:42
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Plenty of older pros have been pretty big on MODO/Arena at various points, so I don't think that has much to do with it.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:43
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Nolgthorn posted:Is it just because I grew up in the 90's that digital magic doesn't appeal to me? It's a collectable card game why would I want digital cards. It's significantly cheaper to play Arena if you're smart about it. I've spent around $25 in 9 months and I have multiple meta decks that in paper would be worth over $700 combined. I also played Magic in the 90's, and I never got to play the cool PT winning decks since I couldn't afford the cards. I would have killed for Arena back then. Even though I can afford to buy Magic cards now, Arena's just too good a deal.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:44
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drainpipe posted:It's significantly cheaper to play Arena if you're smart about it. I've spent around $25 in 9 months and I have multiple meta decks that in paper would be worth over $700 combined. I also played Magic in the 90's, and I never got to play the cool PT winning decks since I couldn't afford the cards. I would have killed for Arena back then. I've been playing for a few days and bought the intro pack plus the Theros Master Pack (against the better advice of Discord unfortunately). I built a very playable UW Control deck with only $20 spent. I can see throwing $20 here and there at Arena, but definitely a better deal than paper standard.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:48
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Do you guys think magic is going to go back to being played for fun? It seems like everybody is trying to win the game, so for formats other than Standard Wizards has been pumping the market with higher powered cards. I just don't really care all that much, I want to buy boosters and end up with random cards that I play. But everyone I run into talks about some high powered deck they bought. Or that they built a deck that some pro uses, or they tell me this or that card I like sucks. It's like yeah, I know it does but it's fun card with cute flavour or whatever.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:52
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Nolgthorn posted:Do you guys think magic is going to go back to being played for fun? It seems like everybody is trying to win the game, so for formats other than Standard Wizards has been pumping the market with higher powered cards. I just don't really care all that much, I want to buy boosters end up with random cards that I lay with. Well, first thing: winning is fun. I'm not terribly competitive, but I don't go out of my way to lose.  If you want to play in a casual environment Commander is a pretty good format, and at FNM people are more likely to bring their weird off-meta brews, but some people will still show up with meta decks because there's still a prize on the line. There are ways to keep the power level lower if you enjoy that. Start a sealed-type league with a few friends where you agree only to open X boosters from such and such sets and add to those decks at agreed intervals from agreed sources. Host an Un-set draft. IDK. The one thing about Magic is that it's infinitely mutible into whatever type of format you want to create as long as you have a handful of people that want to play that way.
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Mar 6, 2020 23:58
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Nolgthorn posted:Do you guys think magic is going to go back to being played for fun? It seems like everybody is trying to win the game, so for formats other than Standard Wizards has been pumping the market with higher powered cards. I just don't really care all that much, I want to buy boosters and end up with random cards that I play. I think there will always be the competitive crowd chasing the meta, but I still regularly run into a lot of players who just want to run a fun or jankey deck. I used to know a guy who would regularly build off meta decks for modern FNM around laboratory maniac (way before inverter combo), coalition victory, or that one other card (forget the name) that encourages the 100+ card deck It seems more common to me though that a lot of the "fun" players stick more to EDH and build themed commander decks.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:04
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Nolgthorn posted:Do you guys think magic is going to go back to being played for fun? It seems like everybody is trying to win the game, so for formats other than Standard Wizards has been pumping the market with higher powered cards. I just don't really care all that much, I want to buy boosters and end up with random cards that I play. Magic has always been this way. The only thing that has changed is you or your local store.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:10
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Those are good points, the game can be played however you want. I guess I feel out of touch. Like this isn't an example of a card I like but I was looking at that other Oko plainswalker card, the six drop one, and thinking that's pretty powerful. You get +2/+2 on whatever you want every turn for a few turns and then all your creatures are 10/10 with trample. I remember mentioning that to someone and I was immediately lambasted like "no that card is poo poo it's utter poo poo" and honestly to this day I don't get why. Is it just because everthing is infinitely more powerful than that? Like there are some +2/+2 enchantments out there that see play. So I am sort of out of it at this point, because I don't know what's going on anymore.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:10
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Nolgthorn posted:Those are good points, the game can be played however you want. half the time you're dead before you get to 6 mana, the rest of the time paying 6 mana to do almost nothing forced multiple turns to just get some Big Guys isn't something that matters at all. but yes, it's because everything is infinitely more powerful than that.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:17
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Nolgthorn posted:Is it just because I grew up in the 90's that digital magic doesn't appeal to me? It's a collectable card game why would I want digital cards. It is so much easier to knock out a couple games on Arena after the kid has gone to sleep than it is to try and go to FNM or a 1k or something. Plus most of the LGSes within 30 minutes are run by assholes. One is a literal Nazi and the other a racist but not full on Nazi rear end in a top hat. The racist guy also continues to let one guy play there who literally assaulted 3 people during FNM. There is another LGS but I’ve never been there as they opened after my daughter was born. When I do play paper I usually drive an hour to play at the good store. The one time there was an assault (4 years ago. A 40 year old guy choke slammed a 16 year old for throwing his cards) there they called the police and banned the guy for life. Reading this before I hit post I’m not quite sure how I’ve managed to see so much violence while playing Magic.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:18
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For 6 mana you can play much better cards than an intentionally weak planeswalker deck planeswalker. Like a planeswalker that isn't from a planeswalker deck!
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Mar 7, 2020 00:19
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I agree with the general thesis that there's a lot of powerful stuff that makes jank worse than it has been in the past, but also jank has gone up in power level a lot. craw wurm is total garbage compared to common green creatures these days. The issue is that the 'gatekeepers' have moved from Jackal Pup and Serra Angel to Embercleave and Dream Trawler so the relative power gap still feels enormous.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:22
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Nolgthorn posted:Those are good points, the game can be played however you want. Like most planeswalker deck planeswalkers, Oko the Trickster really isn't playable. One of the first things to look at in card evaluation is how it performs in difference circumstances you could find yourself in rather than just the most optimal or desired one. One way of doing this is "quadrant theory." What does this do if I'm opening or developing my position? What does this do if I'm at parity with my opponent? What does this do if I'm ahead of my opponent (will it help me close the door on them)? What does this do if I need to catch up because I'm behind and losing? In any format you should expect a Hell of a lot out of a 6CMC permanent. We can evaluate the Planeswalker Deck Oko with this theory: Oko can't deliver when the board is developing because for a start he costs 6 mana, and for another thing he relies on you having a board with creatures. Oko doesn't help much at Parity. If you have a bit of a board an additional indestructible body to crack in is... ok I guess. Oko really doesn't do a lot if you're winning. If you're beating down +2/+2 is a tiny acceleration of your clock. Your biggest guy might still get chumped by their token generator or whatever, he's not helping you go over the top. You're not going off with his ult for 4 turns and if you can't clinch the win in 4 turns you need something more impactful than a 6 CMC planeswalker to seal the deal. If you're losing, Oko is just a miserable peel. Every single one of his abilities has the set up cost of needing a board of one or more creatures. He doesn't build or clear board on his own. E: We can compare him to another 6 CMC planeswalker that does see some Standard play for a baseline of what we expect when we spend 6 mana to drop a walker: Liliana Dreadhorde General. In as much as you can play a 6 CMC walker in your "developing" phase, she's gas. She builds or clears board as needed, and her passive generates card advantage from her minus and from trading/chumping. In parity she's great. Her plus will start pushing your board bigger without costing you cards, and her minus can be deployed to clear the way while giving you card advantage letting them sac creatures they care about while you turn zombies into cards. Ahead she's awesome. If your board is bigger you can use her minus and almost always come out ahead and then crack in. Her ultimate wins the game and can be built up to while protecting herself. If you're behind she can be a lifeline. Your desperate chump blocks build up your hand, if their board is 2 horrible hexproof fatties she'll nuke them for you, and baseline she makes a chump to protect herself that turns into a card in hand. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 00:23
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Nolgthorn posted:Those are good points, the game can be played however you want. 6 mana plays need to be high impact, because it's a lot of mana to invest and it's 100% a dead card for the opening turns of the game every game you draw it. That it's a planeswalker, which means creatures can attack it and a bunch of spells can outright remove it doesn't help. Any planeswalker needs to be looked at in the lens of how it plays while behind and what benefit you get if the opponent removes it the turn you play it. There have been 6 mana+ planeswalkers played in Standard, but they all tend to have very impactful abilities, like clearing the board of creatures.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:23
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I have other things to do with my travel/hobby budget and time than play Magic, so when I play paper it's casually with good friends, while socializing. Sometimes it's multiplayer EDH, sometimes it's semi-competitive drafts, sometimes it's themed underpowered casual 60 card decks. There's one who's more competitive and plays tournaments, so the two of us will play with his Pioneer decks against each other from time to time. When I want to focus on the game itself, online play is ideal. I can slip in a few games online to scratch the competitive itch and push my understanding of and skill at the game, without having to commit a whole night or weekend. It's cheaper and easier to get cards, so it's much easier try out decks and keep up with the meta as it evolves. I don't have to worry about people cheating, I don't get in arguments with people who don't understand the rules and have to wait for judges. I get to spend focus entirely on the decisions I'm making, rather than keeping track of triggers.
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Mar 7, 2020 01:25
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Arena is also excellent if you’re good at limited. I don’t care much about standard and barely play, but I love drafting, it’s the entire reason I like magic. So I’ve spent $5 total and I have hundreds of wildcards, every single tier 1 and 2 standard deck, and all the cosmetics I want.
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Mar 7, 2020 01:43
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Arena is also excellent if you’re good at limited. I don’t care much about standard and barely play, but I love drafting, it’s the entire reason I like magic. So I’ve spent $5 total and I have hundreds of wildcards, every single tier 1 and 2 standard deck, and all the cosmetics I want. What's your offer code so I get 50,000 silver and a free epic champion?
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Mar 7, 2020 02:29
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I wish I was better at limited because it's really rewarding on arena.
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Mar 7, 2020 02:43
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Nolgthorn posted:Those are good points, the game can be played however you want. my friend, i have a format for you: https://premodernmagic.com/
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Mar 7, 2020 03:04
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I'm drafting on Arena, P1P1 Dream Trawler, great. 3 matches in a row now, I've cast it, and an opponent just concedes. Its a strange feeling. edit: 4 now GoutPatrol fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 08:28
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GoutPatrol posted:I'm drafting on Arena, P1P1 Dream Trawler, great. 3 matches in a row now, I've cast it, and an opponent just concedes. Its a strange feeling. that feeling is being a bad person OP
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Mar 7, 2020 08:36
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GoutPatrol posted:I'm drafting on Arena, P1P1 Dream Trawler, great. 3 matches in a row now, I've cast it, and an opponent just concedes. Its a strange feeling. Same start to my draft. Only played one match so far, and essentially the same result. Card is real stupid.
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Mar 7, 2020 16:16
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Ironic result of trawler being so good is that it only gets played out when there's a good chance they have an out.
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Mar 7, 2020 22:14
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pointsofdata posted:Ironic result of trawler being so good is that it only gets played out when there's a good chance they have an out. I beat a turn 6 trawler on the way to my last 5-X with Lyre, in case anyone else needed a reason that card was bonkers
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Mar 7, 2020 22:43
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I beat a turn 6 trawler on the way to my last 5-X with Lyre, in case anyone else needed a reason that card was bonkers I had somebody do that recently until they got blown out by a card draw spell
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Mar 8, 2020 01:50
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How come the Ral Zarek/Expansion combo was never good in standard? Seems pretty good to me, they're both servicable cards, you can go turn 4 ral zarek, turn 5 instant + win.
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Mar 8, 2020 12:15
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Mox Hombre posted:How come the Ral Zarek/Expansion combo was never good in standard? Seems pretty good to me, they're both servicable cards, you can go turn 4 ral zarek, turn 5 instant + win. Explosion + Wilderness Reclamation does the same thing except all the cards are good on their own.
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Mar 8, 2020 12:24
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Ral is bad. Paying 4 mana to scry is too terrible when he has to survive until the next turn.
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Mar 8, 2020 13:07
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Ral has to survive a turn and then you typically need 3 more spells (something to copy and 2 copies of Expansion) to get the infinite combo. It's a lot of work. You'd probably get it off sometimes if you put him in Reclamation but he's not a great card overall so it's not worth it. Losing Doublecast makes the combo a lot worse, since that could be your second copy of Expansion and the spell you copied.
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Mar 8, 2020 13:26
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Mox Hombre posted:How come the Ral Zarek/Expansion combo was never good in standard? Seems pretty good to me, they're both servicable cards, you can go turn 4 ral zarek, turn 5 instant + win. Ral is actually super below rate and can't protect itself, and expansion/explosion is pretty clunky if you're not doing some kind of big mana strategy. Also "if you untap with your planeswalker, you probably win" is not a feature unique to that combo. Traditional midrange/control decks will have that same effect but be more consistent and get to run higher quality cards.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:37
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What was the last 3 card combo deck that was good in Standard? Outside of Kethis, which could do it with 1 card if enough was in GY.
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Mar 8, 2020 20:46
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:What was the last 3 card combo deck that was good in Standard? Outside of Kethis, which could do it with 1 card if enough was in GY. Are folks already forgetting about Field of the Dead decks?
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Mar 8, 2020 21:44
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Mr. Locke posted:Are folks already forgetting about Field of the Dead decks? I mean, the deck drifted away from the scapeshift combo and more towards ramp good stuff. It was incredibly resilient, all the cards in it were pretty good.
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Mar 8, 2020 21:47
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Lands and ramp spells is not a 'combo deck'
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Mar 8, 2020 21:47
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ungulateman posted:Lands and ramp spells is not a 'combo deck' It is when the land is Field of the Dead and the ramp spell is Scapeshift.
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Mar 8, 2020 21:49
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Mr. Locke posted:It is when the land is Field of the Dead and the ramp spell is Scapeshift. Ah yes, scapeshift, the ramp spell that was relevant with field of the dead and the reason it got banned. There was an actual tier zero combo deck in that super-standard anyway (kethis)
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Mar 8, 2020 21:56
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I do wonder how dominant Golos Field would be with Uro and Elspeth Conquers Death...
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Mar 8, 2020 21:58
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