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There's nothing more irritating than a writer convinced they are far more profound than they are.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 10:45 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 05:51 |
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You skipped the part where theres a scene where a person steps out of a room and back in after like 30 seconds and this is later retconned to have been like hours worth of time. Like it doesnt just lie to you about internal thoughts, it lies to you about the events as they are occurring. I think its really important to stress that Detroit is David Cages best game and thats entirely because its just merely facile and flirting with deeper ideas it doesn't grasp, instead of that but also racist, full of weird sexual violence and things like zombie loving, and undermining its own premises every chance it gets.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 13:20 |
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Oh I don’t know about that, Detroit handles the issue of race about as gentle as a bull in a China shop. Like oh the androids have to stand in the back of the bus. And then at the end there’s a literal Press X to Quote MLK prompt.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 13:36 |
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Joss Whedon's never been quite this specifically gross. As in, I've never had the impression he is repeatedly putting his own rape fantasies on screen. There was also that Firefly story idea he had where Inara gets gangraped by Reavers and in a shocking twist the captain treats her like a lady afterwards.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 14:01 |
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Taintrunner posted:Oh I don’t know about that, Detroit handles the issue of race about as gentle as a bull in a China shop. Like oh the androids have to stand in the back of the bus. And then at the end there’s a literal Press X to Quote MLK prompt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLFk9whh1xk&feature=youtu.be
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 14:43 |
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Joss Whedon's never been quite this specifically gross. As in, I've never had the impression he is repeatedly putting his own rape fantasies on screen. Warning: Firefly S1E10 - Objects In Space posted:Jubal Early : You ever been raped? Edit: For those who haven't seen it, the male character in that quote is a black man and the female character is a white woman. This was broadcast on network television (Fox, no less). The Klowner fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Mar 7, 2020 |
# ? Mar 7, 2020 15:14 |
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Joss Whedon's never been quite this specifically gross. As in, I've never had the impression he is repeatedly putting his own rape fantasies on screen. It didn't make it to screen, but he did talk about Firefly and how the syringe that Inara keeps with her in case of a Reaver invasion, which I always assumed was some kind of suicide thing, was actually something that would kill anyone that tried to rape her. But not immediately, it took some time to work. So Whedon's idea for her backstory was that a bunch of Reavers invaded her ship and killed everyone but her. But then when a rescue party goes in, they find that she's still alive and all the Reavers are dead...
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 15:26 |
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My favorite part of Detroit: Become Human is the part where the robot resistance leader can convert other androids to his side by waving his hand at them, effectively meaning he is fighting slavery with slavery.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 15:56 |
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I installed Heavy Rain after we finished Beyond. I played it back at launch but she has no idea what we're about to get into. After that I might as well do Detroit because I have it as well I don't have Indigo Prophecy though which is a thing I should fix.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 15:59 |
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Barudak posted:You skipped the part where theres a scene where a person steps out of a room and back in after like 30 seconds and this is later retconned to have been like hours worth of time. Like it doesnt just lie to you about internal thoughts, it lies to you about the events as they are occurring. The best plot of the story (detective buddy cop arc) had its script rewritten by the two actors because the original was so bad. The robot kidnapping the child is all right (if not for the absolutely poo poo twist) and the revolutionary plot is just dumb as hell. You can solve the human - android conflict by singing.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 16:44 |
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Taintrunner posted:Oh I don’t know about that, Detroit handles the issue of race about as gentle as a bull in a China shop. Like oh the androids have to stand in the back of the bus. And then at the end there’s a literal Press X to Quote MLK prompt. I guess, mentally, I'm making a distinction between being oblivious while thinking you're doing a good thing and just kind of reveling in stereotypes because gently caress it, thats characterization and a thing all people of this group do. You're absolutely right, Detroit is embarrassing all over and is just completely oblivious to the idea that how one constructs story influences how well its stated themes land and are experienced. The loving hand-wave mind-control, "I guess we can just take off this thing that says "I'm a robot"", and it being a second attempt at misdirection by your playable character that's not well handled and raises roughly a million questions about the entire narrative that the game is not prepared to contextualize and address are just kind of impressive not getting it for somebodies 4th major title. Seriously, the mans' best work is the first 30 minutes of Indigo Prophecy, the soundtrack to Time Cop, and his companies current attempts to muddy the waters about what exactly they got up to in the past regarding harrassment, both sexual and otherwise. Barudak fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 7, 2020 |
# ? Mar 7, 2020 16:56 |
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The best way to play Heavy Rain is to fail every prompt.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 17:40 |
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wyoming posted:Buddy, he made Dollhouse. I had managed to forget that completely. Fair point. Still not as creepy as Cage's oeuvre though.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 17:59 |
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MonsieurChoc posted:The best way to play Heavy Rain is to fail every prompt. With the exception of succeeding at a couple QTEs during the market chase so the game doesn’t end the scene before you get to the chicken attack.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 18:28 |
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Joss Whedon's never been quite this specifically gross. He justified his serial cheating on his wife and sleeping with his young actresses by saying that he's a man, which means he's genetically coded to conquer women.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 18:51 |
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Since we're on the topic of David Cage, I highly recommend looking up an LP, any LP, of Omikron: The Nomad Soul. I guarantee there is like a > 80% chance that whoever is playing it goes insane by the time they get to the second map. I have never seen a game evoke such a... visceral response so consistently. It's pretty obvious why every David Cage game after that never again tried to be more complex than walking around with the occasional quick time event.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 19:19 |
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Pigbuster posted:With the exception of succeeding at a couple QTEs during the market chase so the game doesn’t end the scene before you get to the chicken attack. Oh, yeah.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 19:21 |
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:Since we're on the topic of David Cage, I highly recommend looking up an LP, any LP, of Omikron: The Nomad Soul. I guarantee there is like a > 80% chance that whoever is playing it goes insane by the time they get to the second map. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=691RrF9pnaU&list=PL57hJfweW_2uqAdRACg-s5Siq_SBEwi2L This is an amazing example of that.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 20:15 |
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I wish that a better writer would take a swing at that kind of game, because the first few parts of Indigo Prophecy were absolutely revelatory to me 15 years ago
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 20:55 |
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ALFbrot posted:I wish that a better writer would take a swing at that kind of game, because the first few parts of Indigo Prophecy were absolutely revelatory to me 15 years ago My friends and I replayed the demo of that over and over again because it was fun to explore how to gently caress up and what all you could do to be an idiot.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 21:10 |
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I liked Omikron for what it was, or at least what it aspired to be. That said it tries to be a lot of things. Adventure game, RPG, shooter, and fighting game. With the latter two suffering the most from it trying to do too much. I've never actually finished the game.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 21:11 |
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=691RrF9pnaU&list=PL57hJfweW_2uqAdRACg-s5Siq_SBEwi2L This LP was the beginning of the end for the Best Friends. gently caress you, David Cage. Vandar fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Mar 7, 2020 |
# ? Mar 7, 2020 21:27 |
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Casimir Radon posted:I liked Omikron for what it was, or at least what it aspired to be. That said it tries to be a lot of things. Adventure game, RPG, shooter, and fighting game. With the latter two suffering the most from it trying to do too much. I've never actually finished the game. Yeah I'm in the same boat honestly; I have to admire the ambition and audacity that must have gone in to making something like that, even if the end product leaves, uh, something to be desired.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 22:10 |
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If you're down for reading a writer and reviewer slowly lose his poo poo while playing through Heavy Rain specifically to critique it's writing, then this series isn't bad. https://gamecritics.com/daniel-weissenberger/heavy-rain-is-in-many-ways-not-well-written-part-1/ It's a long multiple part thing but I remember it being a fun read. The craziest point I remember from that critique was how many contrivances and lies he worked in to make the twist work. Aside from outright lying in the killer's internal thoughts, no one ever has the option to ask for a description of the killer from people who had run-ins with him, because it would be immediately obvious to the player. So an investigative reporter and an FBI agent go around questioning people and never ask what the guy looks like. All they care about is trying to get his name and going after obvious red herrings. And to add to the pile, at some point canonically the killer goes into a narrow vent system that he'd never be able to fit into. I normally hate calling out "plot holes" but there's just so loving many of them in Heavy Rain. I still don't quite know how he managed to make a fairly interesting hour or so of Indigo Prophecy. Like other goons have said, Cage skates because of this glimpses of fun, ambitious projects but it just always falls apart so fast.
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# ? Mar 7, 2020 23:23 |
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It seems more mysterious and slightly offensive to me that these games apparently keep selling well enough to warrant more of them.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 05:45 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYtKd7fi5I0
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 06:04 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It seems more mysterious and slightly offensive to me that these games apparently keep selling well enough to warrant more of them. Cage's real problem (aside from, you know, an incredibly questionable attitude towards women, Asian people, black people, etc) is that the media tends to lift him up as this singular videogame auteur at the crown of his company. He has good ideas, but needs others taking the reins to not make the end result a wet fart.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 07:06 |
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He has a French accent and talks a lot of pretentious bollocks about game design and EMOTIONS with the arrogant surety of the truly deluded. Games journalists eat that poo poo up because it appeals to their desire for affirmation, to be seen as critiquing a serious artistic medium. People who play his games and enjoy them don't, I assume, pay any actual attention to what's going on and get swept up in the disjointed set pieces. There's a suicide attempt in Beyond Two Souls. It's extremely well acted by Ellen Page, really quite moving. Until you realise it's utterly disconnected from the rest of the story. It's just Cage using the subject matter and the actress' talent to force an emotional response out of you in a really cheap way. People tend to remember stuff like that a lot more fondly when their memory papers over the cracks. Oh God, I just remembered that the romantic heart of that game involves Page being in a relationship with her much older government handler who has been her jailer since she was a child. Framed always as a positive relationship the game will not stop trying to force you into it. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Mar 8, 2020 |
# ? Mar 8, 2020 08:11 |
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I'm always upset by the amount of wasted potential in David Cage's work. It's always so close to being the revelatory experience he promises, just to fall short at the last minute. I just want him to make 90% of a video game then have a better director come through, get rid of the weird rapey stuff, and tie it into a storyline that makes sense. He just needs to be properly George Lucas'd.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 08:33 |
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anyone seen the Hunt is it really just 90 mins of "Libs trying to own us!"
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 09:40 |
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From a purely promotional standpoint, while hes independent now, his last three games were all Playstation exclusives and heavily promoted by Sony, and to be frank was basically all alone making high production adventure games outside the telltale mold without serious competition until like 2 years ago. The man desperately wants to be making movies which is why we must collectively stop him since photoshopping employees as nazis to make fun of them didnt stop him.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 10:23 |
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Barudak posted:
wait what
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 10:24 |
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Alan Smithee posted:wait what So his company currently embroiled in an ongoing controversy around a variety of harassment allegations and his and their attacks on journalists, but last year they did also lose a suit where a high up in the company photoshopped an employee as a Nazi and shared it around the office. This is of course in addition to and unrelated to nude Ellen Page Shrine
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 10:38 |
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Well at least it's not Denis Dyack's co-founder and kiddie porn bad which is a very high bar no one should try and clear
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 10:40 |
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There isn't a lot of talent with experience in putting out a big budget video game (and good luck getting promoted any time soon) so when Sony needs a shiny new game to trot out for the PS5 Cage will be there to fail upwards.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 11:00 |
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Not to derail to hard about video games, but Cage is also a case where Indigo Prophecy was boosted because he supposedly originally wanted it to be an episodic game and had to rush out the entire back half when the publisher pulled the plug. The game does fall off a cliff after a very noticeable chapter ending. That got him a lot of sympathy that papered over the worst parts and let him lean into the tortured creative angle. Heavy Rain was able to coast as a distinct looking "mature" game with dark themes and a focus on story, and most people don't actually complete the games that they buy so there's not much pushback except among us nerds. Beyond and Detroit seem to be making him lose some of the sheen at least. The Ellen Page controversy got a lot of coverage and got the word out that he was being a weird creep about her.
Parakeet vs. Phone fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Mar 8, 2020 |
# ? Mar 8, 2020 12:01 |
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Heavy Rain iirc was also an early life PS3 game when it had jack all else in worthwhile exclusives.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 12:09 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Heavy Rain iirc was also an early life PS3 game when it had jack all else in worthwhile exclusives. 08 or 09 I think so about 2-3 years into the lifespan
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 13:58 |
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Len posted:08 or 09 I think so about 2-3 years into the lifespan IIRC this was still when the 'PS3 has no games' meme was in full swing, and not entirely without justification.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 14:13 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 05:51 |
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Len posted:08 or 09 I think so about 2-3 years into the lifespan Heavy Rain was 2010. For comparison Uncharted 2 came out in 2009 so this was well past the "PS3 has no games" part.
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# ? Mar 8, 2020 14:20 |