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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:You beat me to it. How is Imperator doing? There hasnt been a post in its thread in weeks, if not months.  I tried booting it up recently just to see, but the interface hasn't seen..too many improvements.
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Mar 8, 2020 22:13
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Beamed posted:
the game, it is not good
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Mar 8, 2020 22:22
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My problems with Imperator right now: 1. UI is still not great (though admittedly much better than it was) 2. Countries are still too similar to each other 3. Republics clearly don't work with the character system since your character changes so often in the elections that there is zero point in ever getting invested in them 4. Naval Combat sucks Credit where credit is due, they did a ton of stuff to make the game better than it was on launch but its still just not there yet. Luckily the dynamic mission system and the new pop mechanics are a very solid foundation to build off of and even if Imperator doesn't end up going anywhere they would both be interesting things to see in a hypothetical EU5
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Mar 8, 2020 22:29
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thanks for reminding me Imperator exists, I need to starta a new game to take a look at the new missions system. Another "tutorial" Rome playthrough I guess since I forgot everything about how the game works in the meantime 
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Mar 8, 2020 22:30
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I was mildly optimistic for Imperator but it seems that the first DLC is going to be "lol broken mission trees for the countries people play" which is one of my absolute least favourite things about EU4 so that's dampened my enthusiasm quite a bit since it's a really bad sign IMO. With that said it does appear that they're aware that some of the really core parts of the game need to be reworked signifcantly and they have already made big improvements. Until the improved religion and culture systems (which are going to be in the next 2/3 major patches so we're talking like 6+ months in the future probably) I don't see a great reason to pick it up again, I did play and enjoy it on release but unless they massively improve the AI's ability to play well the game needs a lot of work to make it interesting in other ways. There's still some significant UI/UX issues which are annoying enough that they make me not want to play
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Mar 8, 2020 23:01
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Playing as a country instead of a leading family was just a mistake. It was just as personality driven as the CK era and there should be tension in you doing what is good for your family vs what is good for the state. Playing as a state but having these character you're supposed to also get invested in and try and care about just doesn't work how they've implemented it. ...though honestly trying to do a sequel to EU:Rome instead of making something entirely new and a better fit for the era when EU:Rome was just a disaster was also a massive mistake.
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Mar 8, 2020 23:39
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Eimi posted:Playing as a country instead of a leading family was just a mistake. It was just as personality driven as the CK era and there should be tension in you doing what is good for your family vs what is good for the state. Playing as a state but having these character you're supposed to also get invested in and try and care about just doesn't work how they've implemented it. ...though honestly trying to do a sequel to EU:Rome instead of making something entirely new and a better fit for the era when EU:Rome was just a disaster was also a massive mistake. I don't think it was so much playing a family instead of a country but that they tried to make it so that you had both of those things at the same time which just left each of them feeling really half-assed. This especially a problem in Republics where you are theoretically playing a character but as soon as a new election happens the character you were playing gets yanked out from under you and replaced with a new one so any effort put into improving the old one is completely wasted. It should have either been a straight forward game where you play as the country in antiquity or one where you played as a prominent political figure within your respective state instead of splitting the difference and doing neither.
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Mar 8, 2020 23:47
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AnEdgelord posted:I don't think it was so much playing a family instead of a country but that they tried to make it so that you had both of those things at the same time which just left each of them feeling really half-assed. Yeah that's fair. I personally think a family fits the ~era~ better, but regardless just focusing on one or the other would've made a much, much better game.
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Mar 9, 2020 00:14
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The problem is actually that characters and families don't do anything important, there's no reason why you need to play as a family in order for families to be an important thing you need to manage. I'm glad that they didn't just make a slightly different CK game, the problem is that they made a slightly different (and in many ways worse) EU game instead. Which is understandable once you find out that the game was explicitly designed as EU: Rome 2 and for some baffling reason intentionally ignored improvements that had been added over EU4's life cycle
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Mar 9, 2020 00:29
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RabidWeasel posted:I was mildly optimistic for Imperator but it seems that the first DLC is going to be "lol broken mission trees for the countries people play" which is one of my absolute least favourite things about EU4 so that's dampened my enthusiasm quite a bit since it's a really bad sign IMO. With that said it does appear that they're aware that some of the really core parts of the game need to be reworked signifcantly and they have already made big improvements. The mission system is in already, that was the December patch. They're dumb in exactly the way missions are dumb in every Paradox game: infinite free claim fountains. There are some thrusts at making it more interesting by tying it into the character system, but there's only so much that can do when Imp's character system is... what it is. There are going to be some more tag-specific missions coming in 1.4, but as far as I can tell that's a content pack that's coming alongside the religion rework in the free patch. Which I suspect is coming this month or next; they talked about wanting a more frequent release cycle for Imp and it's been three and a bit months already. And everything they're previewing for the rework looks really good. I'm serious! A whole bunch of new systems to take religion away from being, like, a map colour and a selection of magic spells and toward being something more specific and nuanced and dynamic. And of course a new way to stack a 5% bonus to your fight good numbers, because this is Paradox, but that seems to be a fairly peripheral part of it. (I said this elsewhere, but it is *peak* Paradox that they managed to simultaneously reduce religion to "magic spells" and "magic spells" to "tribesmen will be slightly happier for the next decade".) 1.2 and 1.3 had some good stuff in them too. I love everything about founding cities and how that intersects with pop dynamics and the economy (and I wish they'd push it further, if anything). Despite hating the game at launch I think I'm actually more optimistic about the future of Imp than I am any other Paradox franchise. Certainly a lot more than CK3 or EU4.
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Mar 9, 2020 00:30
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Imperator has a lot of good ideas now, and looks to be getting more, but it flopped so hard (in terms of reception) that it's hard to see people flocking back. I also don't think these regional focus tree packs are necessarily the best way to go; they add a lot of interesting detail, but only to small patches of an absolutely enormous map. I think Paradox would be better served scattering them around on the big or historically significant nations, similar to the state of EUIV on release E; so you'd have missions for like rome and carthage, but also the diadochi and parthia and the marathas and arverni, something for everyone and roughly covering all regions and gov types Fuligin fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Mar 9, 2020 |
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Mar 9, 2020 01:42
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Fuligin posted:Imperator has a lot of good ideas now, and looks to be getting more, but it flopped so hard (in terms of reception) that it's hard to see people flocking back. It also has the "Paradox game with imminent DLC" problem that at least some people don't want to play it until the next thing hits.
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Mar 9, 2020 02:54
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AnEdgelord posted:I don't think it was so much playing a family instead of a country but that they tried to make it so that you had both of those things at the same time which just left each of them feeling really half-assed. The ruler itself could also have goals and ambitions, which would increase the standing of the dynasty and the state if they achieve them, and which would grant bonuses if you were doing things that supported that goal. So like, if your king has the goal of conquering France, then controlling French territory during a war could give a stat bonus to your king-as-general. Or maybe you have the ambition of making friends with France, so you get a bonus to all positive interactions with them. No negative effects from a ruler would probably feel better, so a bad one would just be one that has ambitions you have no intention of attempting, either because they conflict with your goals or because they're overly ambitious. Republican rulers could have goals and ambitions that either strengthened the republic, or pushed it towards monarchy, on top of the more generic ones shared with monarchies.
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Mar 9, 2020 07:38
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RabidWeasel posted:I was mildly optimistic for Imperator but it seems that the first DLC is going to be "lol broken mission trees for the countries people play" which is one of my absolute least favourite things about EU4 so that's dampened my enthusiasm quite a bit since it's a really bad sign IMO. With that said it does appear that they're aware that some of the really core parts of the game need to be reworked signifcantly and they have already made big improvements. My problem with I:R is that it tried to be a new take on EU formula with a strong vision. Then devs listened to people and now it's a game designed by a committee with disjointed element that make for a more interesting sandbox but a bad strategy game. The most noticeable sign of this is the map and the cities. In the release version cities were very simplistic, almost like in Master of Orion 1 - just 4 buildings, civilization level, trade good. Most countries have dozens of cities at start so the complexity comes from their sheer number. Now each city can have a lot of different buildings and modiefiers, even "villages" that have just 1 building have a lot to chose from. And you have hundreds of them. And there's people migration now, and desirable class balance, and trade goods change... Now it's not a strategy but rather a simulation with indirect control. Only this control is not handled gently like in Victoria 2 where you mostly affect the balance of people with focuses and taxes - you can still directly influence any of the hundreds of your cities. Indirect control comes from the fact that no one can be bothered to deal with this poo poo. At the same time, I've liked changes to army food and dynamic mission trees. They've decided to turn it into a wacky sandbox like CK2 instead of EU4 and it's problematic by itself cause most of the mechanics still work as if it's a strategy game, not a roleplaying one. And you don't have enough content and flair to make it into a game of discovery and interesting outcomes yet.
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Mar 9, 2020 09:32
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Yeah the original concept behind Imperator wasn't inherently bad but it was very different from what Paradox's other games are like now (basically a war game with some light management aspects). It needed the AI to be way better at fighting wars to make interesting for more than a couple of playthroughs because other states' armies are more or less the only thing preventing you from doing whatever you like.
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Mar 9, 2020 10:00
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It also had the problem where the game was obviously pushed out before it was ready, something that sounds like will happen to CK3 too
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Mar 9, 2020 12:17
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If just like with Stellaris the business model is to keep it forever fresh by replacing parts of the game then there's no point in waiting for it to be ready, it isn't supposed to ever be "ready" or "finished". I:R was in pretty good shape on release and had a lot of content. I'd say it's a best Paradox release from a technical perspective and the biggest one in terms of the amount of art, text etc.
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Mar 9, 2020 12:21
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ilitarist posted:the biggest one in terms of the amount of art, text etc. what in the world
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Mar 9, 2020 12:24
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ilitarist posted:I:R was in pretty good shape on release and had a lot of content. I'd say it's a best Paradox release from a technical perspective and the biggest one in terms of the amount of art, text etc. This is objectively wrong. Even if, hypothetically, it had a lot of content (which it..really, really didn't. I played Victoria 2 on release and even that had more), technically it was a huge step back in a number of areas: No ledger. No multiplayer chat at all. MP save transferring was just horrendously broken. No macro builder at all. The POP model was more or less a step back from everything except, well, EU Rome. This is before addressing the subjective element of your post - the game looks like garbage. Except for the map, of course.
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Mar 9, 2020 14:25
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No, this is objectively right. You might not like the content, you might want other content. But at the moment I:R English localisation files are more than 3 mb. At the moment (so with two expansions) Victoria 2 localization files are less than 6 mb for 4 languages - they're all in one file so it's harder to separate. GFX files are harder to count but Victoria 2 has less than 500 mb of them in 4500 files (plus 128 interface elements that are stored as gfx in I:R I think, but I can't know for sure) and Imperator: Rome has 6200 graphical assets in >2Gb. If you count objective numbers that game is huge. You may not like how it presents itself to the player, the density and importance of events and a lot of other things but talking about lack of content is delusional. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Mar 9, 2020 |
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Mar 9, 2020 15:29
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just a lack of good content
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Mar 9, 2020 15:31
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Sorry I don't measure "content" by "how big is your images folder"
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Mar 9, 2020 15:33
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ilitarist posted:No, this is objectively right. You might not like the content, you might want other content. But at the moment I:R English localisation files are more than 3 mb. At the moment (so with two expansions) Victoria 2 localization files are less than 6 mb for 4 languages - they're all in one file so it's harder to separate. GFX files are harder to count but Victoria 2 has less than 500 mb of them in 4500 files (plus 128 interface elements that are stored as gfx in I:R I think, but I can't know for sure) and Imperator: Rome has 6200 graphical assets in >2Gb. lmao
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Mar 9, 2020 15:37
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Crazycryodude posted:Sorry I don't measure "content" by "how big is your images folder" Yo PDX devs in the thread: please just start using uncompressed bitmaps (again) in your games so you can make this argument about having all the content.
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Mar 9, 2020 15:37
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my eu4 install folder is just under 2.5gb while the rome imperator base install is just under 4gb, therefore
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Mar 9, 2020 15:39
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You can do all those incredibly funny jokes but it doesn't change the fact that I:R has more of everything than release (and sometimes latest) versions of previous Paradox games and wise gamers have identified "not enough content" as major problem of the game.
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Mar 9, 2020 15:41
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ilitarist posted:You can do all those incredibly funny jokes but it doesn't change the fact that I:R has more of everything than release (and sometimes latest) versions of previous Paradox games and wise gamers have identified "not enough content" as major problem of the game. This has to be trolling, right?
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Mar 9, 2020 15:43
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He’s not wrong, the image thing is a bit dumb but there’s more text and more events in imperator than any other PDS game afaik. It goes to show quality and applicability is so much more important than quantity.
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Mar 9, 2020 15:51
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Exactly.
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Mar 9, 2020 15:53
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ilitarist posted:No, this is objectively right. You might not like the content, you might want other content. But at the moment I:R English localisation files are more than 3 mb. At the moment (so with two expansions) Victoria 2 localization files are less than 6 mb for 4 languages - they're all in one file so it's harder to separate. GFX files are harder to count but Victoria 2 has less than 500 mb of them in 4500 files (plus 128 interface elements that are stored as gfx in I:R I think, but I can't know for sure) and Imperator: Rome has 6200 graphical assets in >2Gb. This is the most autistic definition of content I've ever seen. Not making a statement about I:R launch content compared to other Paradox games, just saying measuring content like this completely misses what people are talking about when they discuss content in games.
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Mar 9, 2020 16:03
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Guys the Steam page for Total War: Rome 2 says it takes 35 GB of hard drive space!!! Wow an immense amount of content. *In a Todd voice* OVER EIGHT TIMES THE DETAIL Clearly the superior and in fact most ultimate Rome game every made. I've never heard of a Rome game with more gigabytes and therefore more content than that!
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Mar 9, 2020 16:20
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Last I played Imperator was before the December patch, but what my impression was was that there was a lot of stuff in the game that was flat out not communicated to the player or was not communicated well enough. I'm not sure if that's a measure of "content", but I feel like it made my experience with the game more "bare" because I was able to just let the game chug along without suffering for ignoring like a handful of features (for example, roads) for a very long time.ilitarist posted:My problem with I:R is that it tried to be a new take on EU formula with a strong vision. Then devs listened to people and now it's a game designed by a committee with disjointed element that make for a more interesting sandbox but a bad strategy game. The most noticeable sign of this is the map and the cities. In the release version cities were very simplistic, almost like in Master of Orion 1 - just 4 buildings, civilization level, trade good. Most countries have dozens of cities at start so the complexity comes from their sheer number. Now each city can have a lot of different buildings and modiefiers, even "villages" that have just 1 building have a lot to chose from. And you have hundreds of them. And there's people migration now, and desirable class balance, and trade goods change... Now it's not a strategy but rather a simulation with indirect control. Only this control is not handled gently like in Victoria 2 where you mostly affect the balance of people with focuses and taxes - you can still directly influence any of the hundreds of your cities. Indirect control comes from the fact that no one can be bothered to deal with this poo poo. To be honest the simulation aspects of the game was one of my favourite things about it. The ability to take a backwater region and slowly urbanise it to the point where it competes with the traditional centres of civilisation of antiquity is inherently satisfying and something I hope Paradox leans on as the game develops further.
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Mar 9, 2020 16:23
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brb, inserting the full text of War and Peace into my game several hundred times. It give the it more content, you see.
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Mar 9, 2020 16:24
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AnoHito posted:brb, inserting the full text of War and Peace into my game several hundred times. It give the it more content, you see. You know it costs money to have a content designer write stuff and then have it translated into a dozen other languages Do you think private companies are in the habit of deliberately wasting money on unnecessary labour, comrade?
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Mar 9, 2020 16:29
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Wasn't it revealed that like half of the Imperator content on release never showed up for the vast majority of players
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Mar 9, 2020 16:33
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Nowadays they've implemented a spam folder for events you wouldn't care about.
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Mar 9, 2020 16:34
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Enjoy posted:You know it costs money to have a content designer write stuff and then have it translated into a dozen other languages private companies ain't infallible, friend. Also isn't paradox public? Those aren't infallible either
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Mar 9, 2020 16:37
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Broke: Measuring content by functionality, immersion, and keeping the player engaged Woke: Measuring content by raw file size on the HD Bespoke: Measuring content by amount of shitposting the game produces
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Mar 9, 2020 16:41
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The problem with Content design (well, one of them) was you always had people saying "Make 5000 events!" and sure, you can do that, but they'll be all on the "I feel depressed - OK" level.
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Mar 9, 2020 16:51
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yikes! posted:private companies ain't infallible, friend. Also isn't paradox public? Those aren't infallible either Private as opposed to state owned
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Mar 9, 2020 17:14
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