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Absolutely, edit: should pay attention to what I'm writing. I meant the autofill. Serephina fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 04:40
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The auto design is hot garbage what are you even talking about? It keeps mixing in missiles even if they're massively underpowered compared to your other stuff. Same with disrupters and void beams. It also just straight up breaks sometimes and doesn't update your weapons and defenses to the newest level. The only reason it works is because the ai doesnt. Even just placing 3 up to date lasers with up to date armor and utility is a massive upgrade to the fleet every time i do it.
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Mar 8, 2020 11:58
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Just like you can rely on the autodesigner to design your ships, you can also rely on the AI to manage your planets. Both are equally good ideas.
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Mar 8, 2020 12:14
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Fat Lowtax posted:I've barely ever touched the ship designer, I guess because it looks complicated and I know it isn't actually that connected to winning at the video game? Especially with the AI economy problems that have just about always existed, but especially in the post-tiles era. The newbie tooltips in this game are pretty good IIRC, but I don't ever remember hearing an "Our rocks are looking very strong against their scissors, Commander," it would go a long way in getting someone like me to engage in the system. Once I unlock command ships I'll need some of them, what bow section do I think will best help keep this alive? Or will I have multiple command ships with offensive command sections and rely on redundancy? Oh crap my scout just found a nearby planet full of swarmers, they're small and nippy so I'll want emitters or a bunch of tiny pew pew weapons, big weapons aren't an option, and just ignoring them is not going to work because those assholes spread. poo poo I don't have anything good, can I research PD or emitters ASAP? Now that I've found a few planets and unlocked a few techs, what do I want to do with enemy planets when I find them? Do I want to wipe out the defenders fast or do I want to alpha strike the planet itself? The Liir have started putting (big, visible, bypassable) shields on their ships, I'm going to have to deal with that somehow. There's a Morrigi planet, they're probably full of drone ships, where'd I put that anti-swarmer design from earlier? By comparison when I got into the Stellaris designer I'm like, OK, I need a guy to knock down shields and a guy to knock down armour. Should probably make an anti-missile guy in case someone starts using them. And uh... well, I suppose I could make some missiles myself if I really want to. Oh there's some crystal guys, they, uh, *stares blankly at a pile of numbers post combat* I guess they uh, hmm, *reads wiki* OK pretty much anything murders them I just need big numbers. Nice. Oh I have a bigger ship now, that lets me, uh, have bigger numbers. Goodgood, great, bigger numbers good. Oh I have a new weapon! What does that do? Oh it does, uh, bigger numbers, yes, lovely. And that would be OK but the Stellaris designer is about as complex as the SotS designer regarding the amount of buttons you have to press, but with far, far less actually meaningful results. And I don't play vs multiplayer so maybe there's a whole bunch of nuance in there about back and forth and interplay between evolving strategies, but from a UI perspective all you have is "Do you want a big gun or two medium guns". As I was typing this it occurred to me that you get projects to investigate the wild animal spawns, but at the end of them they don't even tell you what weapons are good against them  e: I know that ultimately you want front skirmish line guys and back artillery guys but again, the feedback is practically nonexistent. Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 12:14
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Yami Fenrir posted:The only reason it works is because the ai doesnt. Pretty much this. I don't disagree and I'm hoping we'll have some changes with the upcoming AI patch.
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Mar 8, 2020 14:27
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Why don’t they copy hoi4’s naval system. Fleets patrol and get engagements. Screens actually do something for capitals.
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Mar 8, 2020 14:33
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Yami Fenrir posted:The auto design is hot garbage what are you even talking about? You're right, I should clarify that the auto-complete and auto-upgrade has worked fine whenever use them. The auto-design tends to swap hardpoints and blend in missiles/disruptors, making a mess. Mah bad.
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Mar 8, 2020 14:58
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Splicer posted:e: I know that ultimately you want front skirmish line guys and back artillery guys but again, the feedback is practically nonexistent.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:05
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Look how loving fast the fleets buzz across the map, compared to how many days it takes two ships to slowly chip at each other. Stellaris will never have anything resembling combat terrain, formations, nothing. All you can ask for is mid-blob target prioritization, which you allllmost have with the various computers. Imagine if you had a tiny drop-down box (or extra computer w/e) of choices like "target shields, target armour, target best tracking, target lowest hp" and boom, suddenly you have two different fleets trying to do two different things with specialized ships that you have to make sure you have the right balance of to make things work. It's doable, you just have to work with what the engine can provide and the gameplay is built around.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:23
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Serephina posted:You're right, I should clarify that the auto-complete and auto-upgrade has worked fine whenever use them. The auto-design tends to swap hardpoints and blend in missiles/disruptors, making a mess. Mah bad.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:24
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Serephina posted:Look how loving fast the fleets buzz across the map, compared to how many days it takes two ships to slowly chip at each other. Stellaris will never have anything resembling combat terrain, formations, nothing. All you can ask for is mid-blob target prioritization, which you allllmost have with the various computers.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:26
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My favorite thing about auto design is that it just never gives Titans their Perdition Beams. You know, the reason you build titans? The big fuckoff laser? Not on it on the auto design. I do use auto update, which usually works, but sometimes doesn't update. I assume it's because your reactors wouldn't be able to power it, but it doesn't check again when you research new reactors.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:30
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Serephina posted:Look how loving fast the fleets buzz across the map, compared to how many days it takes two ships to slowly chip at each other. Stellaris will never have anything resembling combat terrain, formations, nothing. All you can ask for is mid-blob target prioritization, which you allllmost have with the various computers. All it takes is slowing down the ships in-combat speed and upping the range combat starts at. Combat computers start doing their jobs, ship speed starts to matter - you can do it right now.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:42
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DatonKallandor posted:All it takes is slowing down the ships in-combat speed and upping the range combat starts at. Combat computers start doing their jobs, ship speed starts to matter - you can do it right now. Battleships can already hit the center of a system from it's rim, and the game already has issues with units getting sucked into fights they should be able to walk away from (outpost v transport fleets). That sounds like its adding more problems than it's fixing honestly. (I can picture people moving fleets about on the map layer in order to get a flank, since they know ships move at 1/100th speed in a fight so it's worth futzing about with jump drives to get in behind) I mean, yea, we could make combat a completely separate entity from normal game movement, where if two fleets touch the same system you get a popup and combat starts... but that's also a completely different system to what stellaris has. Like Eclipse or ES2.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:53
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What is the correct starting corvette these days? Missile/Laser?
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Mar 8, 2020 17:04
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Schadenboner posted:What is the correct starting corvette these days? Missile/Laser? I boat lasers on one design and gauss on another. I don't bother with missiles ever tbh
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Mar 8, 2020 17:24
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I never make missile corvettes.
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Mar 8, 2020 17:29
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Dreissi posted:Why don’t they copy hoi4’s naval system. Fleets patrol and get engagements. Screens actually do something for capitals. If you design screens, they actually do something. I have no idea why other players can't do this, my ablative destroyers have so far worked out great. And I know they're the reason my battleships get fewer hits because as soon as my cheap destroyers are gone from the line, the battleships tend to get hit and go down far more often then before
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Mar 8, 2020 17:30
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Corvettes with missiles and disruptors are decent, but before you get disruptors there's not really a weapon that synergises well with missiles - the whole advantage of missiles is they ignore shields and armour, and it doesn't make sense to pair that with a weapon that can't ignore shields and armour.
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Mar 8, 2020 18:17
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Autocannons pair well with missiles (and even better with torpedoes). The ACs are good against shields and hull and the torps ignore shields and are good against armor and hull. While the torps work on the armor the acs chew through the shields and then they both go through hull quickly. Missiles also are about saturating PD - they get better the more there are and synergize with strikecraft too. Plus great tracking makes them fantastic anti-corvette weapons early game.
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Mar 8, 2020 18:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8VZ56R4MKo Scion video. Seems, uh... a bit broken.
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Mar 8, 2020 22:32
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Yeah Scion already stood out as obviously broken, good to see that it's far worse that it could be 
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Mar 8, 2020 23:06
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Entorwellian posted:That guy sounds so awful I couldn't keep watching it after 2 minutes. I was also becoming irrationally angry at this dweeb. if you talk like that stay the gently caress off of youtube
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Mar 8, 2020 23:16
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Libluini posted:If you design screens, they actually do something. I have no idea why other players can't do this, my ablative destroyers have so far worked out great. And I know they're the reason my battleships get fewer hits because as soon as my cheap destroyers are gone from the line, the battleships tend to get hit and go down far more often then before Well, you kind of touch on one problem I have with the current version of screens. You understand that your BS are more survivable with picket destroyers with PD or whatever, but how much more? We get info on defenses post-battle, but I really can't tell what ships are supporting one another without counting them out after several iterations of combat (as you have done). I'd like more info about how fleets will interact internally before combat begins. I guess the combat computers tell us a little, but not nearly enough IMO. Second, when I mentioned screens in context of HOI4, they do few other things besides get between capitals and the enemy: spot ships, and maintain the engagement in cases of faster fleets. I get those aren't actually screening, but I don't know the right word for this context. Escort?
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Mar 8, 2020 23:19
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Yami Fenrir posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8VZ56R4MKo Well, it seems to me it's a matter of chance. It skips the 'do as we say randomly for goodies' phase. https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Fallen_empire Since you start at Patronizing, with massive opinion, and start knowing their location. There might be sanity checks down the line, but who knows? Bloodly fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 23:26
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I'm not entirely convinced any of the design decisions I make for the ships I design actually matter at all, and so generally go with a mixed fleet to ensure they don't matter because it's better than loving things up. Once in a while I'll refit to add point defense, which is the only part of the battle system that makes any sense to me, the only part I can really understand the impact I'm having by making the decision. I think the ship design problems are twofold - first, most of the changes are fiddly number juggling with minimal impact. Some of that has to do with how the ai designs their own fleets, some of it has to do with the major decisions (lasers vs bullets, shields vs armor) being an exceptionally weak core to build around. The second is none of it matters because you have no ways to engage in meaningful information gathering. If there was a way to, like, get all the details about an enemy fleet prior to engaging with them (and if the AI engaged in meaningful fleet specialization, meaning they had powerful fleets built around some strong advantage/gimmick but with a discernable exploitable weakness) then you'd get to feel like all the time you spent in the ship designer was actually worth it. Well, that and being able to determine what impact your decisions will actually have, it's really not very good in terms of feedback on combat decisions right now. Right now I just feel like all the choices are pretty much meaningless. I want powerful synergies with exploitable weaknesses, I want the ai to build them too, and I want the information to make smart decisions about it. That doesn't seem like too much to ask from the game, honestly. Note: this is actually true for fighting the end game crisises, I guess. I just want it in normal combat too. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 23:32
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WWII battleships needed escorts because torpedoes were cheap and crippled any target they connected with. Stellaris doesn't have the same dynamic, until titans roll around nothing is taking out a battleship in one hit. Small ships can help with their high evasion, but without hard data I'm not actually sure they're better than just building more battleships.
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Mar 8, 2020 23:35
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Like as an easy example imagine if every shield on a ship added shield points AND increased total shields by 20% and improved regen. And every point of armor not only added armor health but also applied percentage damage reduction to armor and Hull. Suddenly you have a reason to specialize and go all in because you see a huge advantage, and because you're specializing it is now meaningful for the opponent to actually care about lasers vs. bullets. Right now esp. with power requirements you're basically forced down the middle road with only a bit of minor tweaking, which is bleh.
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Mar 8, 2020 23:40
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Yami Fenrir posted:Scion video. PittTheElder posted:Yeah Scion already stood out as obviously broken, good to see that it's far worse that it could be I dunno, folks itt have been asking for flavor and don't really care if it's balanced. Stellaris isn't really a game about min maxing, it's leans heavily on picking a theme and then playing it out.
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Mar 9, 2020 00:06
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Dreissi posted:Well, you kind of touch on one problem I have with the current version of screens. You understand that your BS are more survivable with picket destroyers with PD or whatever, but how much more? We get info on defenses post-battle, but I really can't tell what ships are supporting one another without counting them out after several iterations of combat (as you have done). I'd like more info about how fleets will interact internally before combat begins. I guess the combat computers tell us a little, but not nearly enough IMO. Honestly to me it seems way harder to tell what the gently caress anything is doing in HoI4's naval combat by an order of magnitude. In Stellaris after a fight I know exactly what worked and what didn't, and almost all the time it's exactly what I expected before the fight started.
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Mar 9, 2020 00:55
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Yeah the Scion background gives you a massive advantage but is super flavourful and looks fun
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Mar 9, 2020 01:40
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balance is the absolute worst thing about this game this is like the only paradox game that gives a poo poo about it and I'm glad that they seem to be giving less of a poo poo about it moving forward
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Mar 9, 2020 01:50
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I'd like to see the Scion background include some more expectations from the FE you're attached to tbh.
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Mar 9, 2020 01:53
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HoI4 naval combat is actually really easy to break over your knee with one simple trick. Mass torpedo's on a lot of screens. Keep a few token Capitals so you don't get penalized. I sunk 150 of Japan's 300 ship navy in one month without losing a single surface ship including sinking 40 ships in one battle with this method.
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Mar 9, 2020 01:59
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Xik posted:I dunno, folks itt have been asking for flavor and don't really care if it's balanced. Stellaris isn't really a game about min maxing, it's leans heavily on picking a theme and then playing it out. Be careful with the whole "you have to make your own fun" argument, especially when combined with Stellaris' already-established "this is a toy more than a game" theme. You quickly end up with the Star Citizen customers, paying for the dream of what they want to imagine rather than the broken product they're getting.
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Mar 9, 2020 03:06
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cock hero flux posted:balance is the absolute worst thing about this game It's pretty different from other Paradox games, more like a Civilization than a Europa Universalis. It would be really cool to have a mode more like EU, but it would be an incredible undertaking to create something as good and engaging as EU4. Like create a fictional history for a galaxy filled with empires that are pre-established and asymmetrical
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Mar 9, 2020 03:19
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Serephina posted:Be careful with the whole "you have to make your own fun" argument, especially when combined with Stellaris' already-established "this is a toy more than a game" theme. You quickly end up with the Star Citizen customers, paying for the dream of what they want to imagine rather than the broken product they're getting. Don't even know what you're getting at, the situations aren't even remotely similar. Do you think Stellaris lacks actual playable features or mechanics? What are you comparing it to? Did you think you were in the Elite Dangerous thread or something?
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Mar 9, 2020 03:21
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Also I'm unironically mad you're comparing me to a Star Citizen defender because this 4X that's been out for years is getting a new feature that isn't balanced the way you want.
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Mar 9, 2020 03:25
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Once i have destroyers my Corvettes become point defense ships. Works out fairly well. Especially when the fanatical purifiers to the immediate galactic south of me (opposed to the ones that are to the ones further south and the ones to the west, wtf with all the fanatical purifiers in this game) had a lot of missile boats when they attacked me.
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Mar 9, 2020 03:32
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Xik posted:I dunno, folks itt have been asking for flavor and don't really care if it's balanced. Stellaris isn't really a game about min maxing, it's leans heavily on picking a theme and then playing it out. Yeah but now I feel like we're going to need a 'No Scion' rule for multiplayer.
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Mar 9, 2020 03:33
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