hemale in pain posted:

I wonder what a labour governments response would be instead. Part of me thinks probably not that much different but maybe it'll turn out people literally voted for death without knowing it.

Communist Thoughts posted:

the asian countries that actually know what they're doing are all wearing masks and ppe whenever they're outside.
presumably since they're from countries that take it seriously they have this stuff already or are given it.

my own experience dealing with the gov advice and phonelines on this is that its basically every man for himself as the government actively tries to get as many people infected as possible before doing anything

i dunno if i gave the thread an update but me and my gf both have all the main symptoms and have been sick for a week and are going from cold symptoms to shortness of breath and dry coughs etc, hopefully not roni but it is here community spreading in our location.

i've called 111, i've gone online, i've called scotlands special non-111 coronavirus helpline. ofc we aren't getting any tests but they also aren't even advising us to stay indoors ffs


yeah this is absolutely the case, the government isn't doing poo poo

quote:

(CNN)Panic over the novel coronavirus is hitting a fever pitch in the US. And despite repeated pleas from health officials not to purchase them, Americans can't stop snatching up masks and respirators.

The mask boom has prompted sellers to jack up prices and exploit demand. This has meant a shortage for medics who need them. And Chinese Americans are buying in bulk to send to their families overseas.

"We need to make sure those N95 masks are available for the doctors and nurses that are going to be taking care of individuals that have this illness," Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield said during a House Foreign Affairs hearing on Thursday. "And it really does displease me, to find people going out, there is no role for these masks in the community."

Americans don't need masks. They buy them because they're scared

To be clear once again, Americans don't need masks. The CDC says that healthy people in the US shouldn't wear them because they won't protect them from the novel coronavirus.

In fact, warns US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams, face masks might actually increase your risk of infection if they aren't worn properly.

But medical workers who treat patients with novel coronavirus do need them. And, the CDC says, it's crucial that those supplies don't run out.

When it comes to hysteria and panic, though, reason takes a backseat.

"This is a psychological thing," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of preventive medicine at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, told CNN. "The coronavirus is coming, and we feel rather helpless. By getting masks and wearing them, we move the locus of control somewhat to ourselves."

hemale in pain posted:

I wonder what a labour governments response would be instead. Part of me thinks probably not that much different but maybe it'll turn out people literally voted for death without knowing it.

Private Speech posted:

Oh if you do have symptoms that's different, sorry. Anyway here's an article about the mask hoarding though:

Masks can't stop the coronavirus in the US, but hysteria has led to bulk-buying, price-gouging and serious fear for the future

Juche Couture posted:

In our hospital doctors with direct prolonged contact (including being vomited on) with patients with proven Covid, without masks etc (not originally suspected cases) have been explicitly told that unless they become symptomatic they are not to be tested and to continue working.

Lol. Lmao.

golden bubble posted:

If you are trying to contain it, that's a terrible idea. If you assume the worst is going to happen anyway, that's perfectly reasonable. All the hospitals in the worst hit parts of Italy follow that policy, because they need any doctor they can get right now, and drat the consequences.

Ms Adequate posted:

I have to assume that they are assuming the doctors are working with mostly people already infected (And thus are unlikely to be giving it out to folks)

Juche Couture posted:

In our hospital doctors with direct prolonged contact (including being vomited on) with patients with proven Covid, without masks etc (not originally suspected cases) have been explicitly told that unless they become symptomatic they are not to be tested and to continue working.

Lol. Lmao.

XMNN posted:

if anyone's looking for some distraction from the gloom and doom, it looks like there's a bunch of studio Ghibli films on Netflix atm

just watched my neighbor totoro for the first time and it was really good.

not sure if that means I'm an animu now?

Ms Adequate posted:

As I said in the covid thread proper a day or two ago, this outbreak should firmly put to rest any notion that we could stop a zombie apocalypse because we're collapsing in the face of a nasty, but not exactly world-ending, respiratory disease that hasn't even been found in 150,000 people yet.

ThomasPaine posted:

Lmao can you loving imagine if something as deadly as ebola got half this contagious

WhatEvil posted:

Anyone who's played Plague Inc. knows you need a combination of an asymptomatic but contagious period and THEN a highly deadly phase. Also make sure you infect Madagascar early on.

OwlFancier posted:

Part of the reason ebola is not as contagious as it could be is exactly because it is highly lethal, it kills people too reliably for them to go around infecting others.

Ms Adequate posted:

As I said in the covid thread proper a day or two ago, this outbreak should firmly put to rest any notion that we could stop a zombie apocalypse because we're collapsing in the face of a nasty, but not exactly world-ending, respiratory disease that hasn't even been found in 150,000 people yet.

Juche Couture posted:

It’s not even close to this at the moment - but it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy now!

quote:

The Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care just published the most extraordinary medical document I’ve ever seen.

To help people from Germany to America understand what we’re about to face, I am publishing translated extracts here.

[Thread.]
Background:

A week ago, Italy had so few cases of corona that it could give each stricken patient high-quality care.

Today, some hospitals are so overwhelmed that they simply cannot treat every patient. They are starting to do wartime triage.

Here’s the guidance for that.

"It may be necessary to establish criteria of access to intensive care not just on the basis of clinical appropriateness but inspired by the most consensual criteria regarding distributive justice and the appropriate allocation of limited health resources."
"This scenario is substantially comparable to the field of 'catastrophe medicine,' for which ethical reflection has over time stipulated many concrete guidelines for doctors and nurses facing difficult choices."
"In a context of grave shortage of medical resources, the allocation criteria need to guarantee that those patients with the highest chance of therapeutic success will retain access to intensive care.

It's a matter of giving priority to 'the highest hope of life and survival.'"

Recommendations:

1)

The extraordinary criteria of admission and discharge are flexible and can be adapted in accordance with the local availability of resources.

These criteria apply to all patients in intensive care, not just those infected with CoVid-19.

2)

"Allocation is a very complex and delicate choice. […]

The foreseeable increase in mortality for clinical conditions not linked to the current epidemic due to the reduction of chirurgical activity and the scarcity of resources needs to be taken into consideration."

3)

"It may become necessary to establish an age limit for access to intensive care.

This is not a value judgments but a way to provide extremely scarce resources to those who have the highest likelihood of survival and could enjoy the largest number of life-years saved."

"This is informed by the principle of maximizing benefits for the largest number.

In case of a total saturation of resources, maintaining the criterion of 'first come, first served' would amount to a decision to exclude late-arriving patients from access to intensive care."

4)

"In addition to age, the presence of comorbidities needs to be carefully evaluated. It is conceivable that what might be a relatively short treatment course in healthier people could be longer and more resource-consuming in the case of older or more fragile patients."

"For patients for whom access to intensive care is judged inappropriate, the decision to posit a ceiling of care nevertheless needs to be explained, communicated, and documented."

I spent many years sitting in seminar rooms thinking about questions of distributive justice.

Let me be honest: It’s left me not one bit wiser about what to do in these kinds of dramatic circumstances. So I don’t don’t mean to pass judgment on the contents of this document.

BUT here’s the point I do want everyone to take away from this:

Doctors in America will likely be faced with similarly heartbreaking dilemmas very soon.

But we can avoid that if we:.

* Start engaging in extreme forms of social distancing
* Radically expand ICU capacities
The moral choices involved in figuring out who gets care when hospitals do not have the resources to treat all critical patients are heart-breaking.

But the moral choices involved in doing what we can today to avert that situation are straightforward.

Cancel everything now.
Here is the full document. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/

(Undoubtedly imperfect) translation of it is by me.

[End.]

Jose posted:

sassassin posted:

The government is too worried about public "fatigue" from having to do stuff (or not do stuff) for too long to realise that a full stop for 2-3 weeks now will do a lot more good than a full stop for 2-3 weeks in another week or so due to how this thing grows.

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1237999427639554048?s=19

Lungboy posted:

Aye, government policy is being led by Cummings and his weirdos, so they are listening to "behavioural economists" rather than medics and scientists.

Ms Adequate posted:

As I said in the covid thread proper a day or two ago, this outbreak should firmly put to rest any notion that we could stop a zombie apocalypse because we're collapsing in the face of a nasty, but not exactly world-ending, respiratory disease that hasn't even been found in 150,000 people yet.

Jel Shaker posted:

Does this mean that Europeans have to fly via the U.K. first?

Qwertycoatl posted:

It's not just a ban of direct flights, it's a ban of anyone who's set foot in a Bad Country in the last 14 days, so it's not just a case of flying from Paris to NY via Heathrow.